Will 82 games be enough for us to get our wings right?

LACtdom · Post #1 » by **LACtdom** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:36 pm

I am loving our depth compared to last season however I do worry that we have so many different combinations that it will take the entire season to see who fits well with who.

Points to note:
Doc said:
- Wesley Johnson is favourite for the starting SF position.
- Jamal will 'absolutely' be a clipper come season's end.
Doc isn't willing to blood rookies.
Doc has a habit of separating the team into 'starting unit' and 'bench unit'.
Is Paul Pierce wanting to play big minutes or is he just along for the ride until finals.

My biggest questions is:
With so many new faces, how long do we give each player to 'perform / fit in / build combinations' before we replace him with another player in our squad? For example, if Lance struggles early, when will Doc cut him and just go back to Jamal as our backup SG?

Assuming Rivers will play as a PG, we have JJ, Jamal & Lance all fighting for minutes at the 2. Since Doc is more resistant to cutting Jamal's minutes than I am, Jamal / Lance will probably spend some time at SF which may not be a big deal if we are looking to put Pierce on minutes restrictions anyway. Throw in the fact that Josh Smith will probably play a little bit of 3 at times as well, and it is looking like we have some (good?) problems.

The downside to having players 'compete' for minutes is that they tend to try too hard. For example, do we really want Jamal and Lance jacking up shots to try and impress coach because they want to play more than 18 mpg?

Most importantly, in the last 5 minutes of a Game 7 how do we possibly choose who to play? Form? History? Jamal?

Thoughts?

mattd13 · Post #2 » by **mattd13** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:05 am

I believe you start pp with jj, dj, bg, and cp3. you see how the game evolves and depending on match ups you manage pp's minutes as well as others. the reason being is you want to finish with this group if it is close. that way you have your smartest and most experienced players rested and ready to close. I also think that lance and Austin will be given a chance but neither has proven they can be consistent at anything so I am not going to count on much. at the end of the day I think josh smith will play a big role as well as jamal. if lance or Austin happen to prove they can help then jamal will sit more. I also think someone out of the rest will surprise and play a big part. I really like the rookie and think he will prove himself.

mattd13 · Post #3 » by **mattd13** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:07 am

I believe you start pp with jj, dj, bg, and cp3. you see how the game evolves and depending on match ups you manage pp's minutes as well as others. the reason being is you want to finish with this group if it is close. that way you have your smartest and most experienced players rested and ready to close. I also think that lance and Austin will be given a chance but neither has proven they can be consistent at anything so I am not going to count on much. at the end of the day I think josh smith will play a big role as well as jamal. if lance or Austin happen to prove they can help then jamal will sit more. I also think someone out of the rest will surprise and play a big part. I really like the rookie and think he will prove himself.

nickhx2 · Post #4 » by **nickhx2** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:12 am

don't really need to overthink our end game. starters and paul pierce.

madmaxmedia · Post #5 » by **madmaxmedia** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:57 pm

I think we have mostly players that have come to LA to compete for a championship, and want to be a part of a team effort to do so. That's why Pierce and Smith signed. Lance was traded here, but I think is looking forward to re-establish what he did as a Pacer, which was being a key contributor on a title contender, not the star. I think Doc is good at managing a vet team, and getting everyone focused on the big picture.

I hope Wesley Johnson is not the starter, he's not very good. I think Lance at 3- who can create off the dribble- would much better complement Redick at the 2. Lance was very good 2 years ago, Wesley Johnson has never been good in the league. I actually liked Xavier Henry better when they were both on the Lakers.

I'm basically hoping that Pierce and Lance share most of the minutes at 3, they have the best chance of significantly improving our overall play on the court, and can make our offense more dynamic. So when the game slows down, it's not just CP3 and Blake ISO's. Smith will get a lot of minutes in the front court too.

I think Austin Rivers had a nice stretch in the playoffs where he got a lot of 50/50 shots to fall, but that is not sustainable. In high school I think he was probably athletically dominant enough to create high percentage shots, but in the NBA they end up tougher/contested shots. And he hasn't developed his game to get beyond that. He's still young, but for now he's a situational wildcard player you can put in to hopefully shake things up.

Roscoe Sheed · Post #6 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:02 am

I agree that Johnson isn't a great player by any means, but he is very athletic and has the potential to be a contributor in terms of energy and spark on both sides of the court. He isn't as tough as Barnes, but he is more physically gifted, especially at such a relatively young age.

Post #7 » by **QRich3** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:47 am

Wesley just fits the profile too well not to be in Doc's doghouse by January at the latest. Eventually, Pierce will end up overworked and playing too many RS minutes, that's inevitable with trusted veterans in every one of Doc's teams.

nickhx2 · Post #8 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:59 pm

hah, that makes me laugh a bit. and not in the good way.

where the hell does all his unfounded trust in abandoned players come from?

Post #9 » by **QRich3** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:03 pm

He's nostalgic, he just wants it to be 2008 forever

Be glad the T-Wolves took Tayshaun Prince from under his nose

nickhx2 · Post #10 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:25 pm

was so happy when that happened lol

illastrate · Post #11 » by **illastrate** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:31 pm

Defense or not, Pierce is a starting caliber player on a title contender. Wes isn't. You start Pierce and figure it out. He's too good not to.

LACtdom · Post #12 » by **LACtdom** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:10 pm

I don't care who starts, I'm more concerned about limiting PP's minutes and finishing with him in the 4th. I say we burn Lance's and Johnson's young bodies into the ground and make sure PP is fresh come playoffs.

nickhx2 · Post #13 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:30 pm

that's always been the plan though

McAdoo · Post #14 » by **McAdoo** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:58 pm

Wes Johnson isn't great but him starting will be the easiest job of his career. Play D rebound, slash and spot up and cp and BG will make you look good.

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nickhx2 · Post #15 » by **nickhx2** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:52 pm

yeah pretty much. i think he's got close to a 50/50 shot of having matt barnes-ish year. kinda decent mostly, occasional big game that makes you go "RINGZ ARE FORTHCOMING" but mostly (hopefully) decent.

also maybe i'd give him a small chance of having an actual good year, since he's never been on an actual elite team. theoretically having cp3 get him the ball in the right spots and also giving him a set, specific role could do wonders for him.

madmaxmedia · Post #16 » by **madmaxmedia** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:35 pm

I hope you guys are right. I just have literally no confidence that he will be a consistent starter or contributor. Maybe in spot minutes. Maybe a decent defender. Every few games he'll have a good game, then disappear again. If we were an up-and-coming .500 team hoping to crack the playoffs, I would be much more enthusiastic. But as a starting 3 on a championship contender???

He has physical tools which is why he was a lottery pick, but in his time in the NBA has shown to be just not be a very good basketball player. But again I hope I'm wrong!! 8-)

He is not really one to drive into the paint and create off the dribble, which is what we really need from our wing in our starting 5.

nickhx2 · Post #17 » by **nickhx2** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:50 pm

being a starting anything for a championship contender is pretty overrated, though. for years derek fisher was the worst starter in the league, but the lakers did just fine with him. it's not about one guy and his spot as a starter, at least in a vacuum.

it's about how each guy contributes to the overall makeup of the team. if wes johnson starting means 50 games of "meh", 15 games of "nice", and 7 games of "RINGZ" and we lose a lot of games cause he's only "meh" that might suck in the W/L column. but it might be exactly what paul pierce needs to ascend to god status in the post season.

at the end of the day this team's championship status is decided by paul pierce, not by wesley johnson potential mediocrity.

mattd13 · Post #18 » by **mattd13** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:31 pm

I think pp will surely make a difference in a number of ways but I believe if this team has a chance at the finals it will depend on the play of the role guys. there will have to be at least 2 of them to have big years. I would like to see jj be one of those guys and I also think someone from the bench will have a great year. I hate to be negative but that player will not be named Austin or lance.

TucsonClip · Post #19 » by **TucsonClip** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:57 pm

Its not the 82 games I am worried about, it is RIvers' rotations. He HAS to manipulate lineups throughout the season so when an injury pops up he can look down the bench and know exactly what lineup each guy fits best in. That and player development have been my two major gripes with Doc the coach.

I think this year will be different, but I also need to see it to believe it.

madmaxmedia · Post #20 » by **madmaxmedia** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:07 pm

nickhx2 wrote:being a starting anything for a championship contender is pretty overrated, though. for years derek fisher was the worst starter in the league, but the lakers did just fine with him. it's not about one guy and his spot as a starter, at least in a vacuum.

it's about how each guy contributes to the overall makeup of the team. if wes johnson starting means 50 games of "meh", 15 games of "nice", and 7 games of "RINGZ" and we lose a lot of games cause he's only "meh" that might suck in the W/L column. but it might be exactly what paul pierce needs to ascend to god status in the post season.

at the end of the day this team's championship status is decided by paul pierce, not by wesley johnson potential mediocrity.

For sake of discussion and not argument (since both these guys could be great or suck next season...)-

Lance Stephenson was a quality starter for Indiana his last year there, not just a starter- 13.8 PPG on 49% FG, 7.2 RPG, 4.6 APG as a 23-year old.

I've watched Wesley Johnson a decent amount the last 2 years on the Lakers, he is basically invisible much of the time, has always shot in the low 40's FG%, has no on-ball skills, and doesn't do anything particularly well. He's also 3 years older than Lance- at the age of 28 Wesley Johnson is what he is- a strictly substitute/fringe player, not a starter on a title contender. His best attribute is probably catch-and-shoot 3, but we already have that in JJ. We need something else to keep our half court offense from getting stagnant and predictable (33 year old Paul Pierce would have been really nice...)

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/5/13/8590297/la-lakers-wesley-johnson-free-agency-season-review

Still, I liked the pickup by the Clips, but I was thinking more as a strictly deeper bench player who might contribute on a second unit with some athleticism, catch and shoot, maybe some transition baskets. But if we want to realistically contend for a title, we desperately need more from our starting 3 than what WJ can contribute (but not saying Lance is necessarily that guy either, I just feel he at least has the potential to be that guy, sharing minutes with PP.)