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Around the NBA II

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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1541 » by skeptic2020 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:14 pm

QRich3 wrote:It's sad that no one at all in the whole league stood with Morey. I don't have enough information about the Hong Kong situation to take a stance either way, but the fact that such an innocuous statement by Morey was met with such a disproportionate reaction and a country wide boycott of anything he's tangentially related to, says a lot about the situation.

Really bad look for Silver and everyone in the league, I understand it's a business that has to protect their interests, but this was a pretty clear situation, and now their image is gonna take a big hit locally because of the fear they had of losing the China market.

Good on Morey for not backtracking even when he's forced to make a public apology.


Good post. US has its own problems but has sold out to China.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1542 » by Quake Griffin » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:10 pm

Read on Twitter


lol.
Doc offering his support for this choke artist.

Appreciate the sentiment, Doc but you're making it easier for LAD to accept this choke artist.
He must be traded.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1543 » by esqtvd » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:38 am

skeptic2020 wrote:
QRich3 wrote:It's sad that no one at all in the whole league stood with Morey. I don't have enough information about the Hong Kong situation to take a stance either way, but the fact that such an innocuous statement by Morey was met with such a disproportionate reaction and a country wide boycott of anything he's tangentially related to, says a lot about the situation.

Really bad look for Silver and everyone in the league, I understand it's a business that has to protect their interests, but this was a pretty clear situation, and now their image is gonna take a big hit locally because of the fear they had of losing the China market.

Good on Morey for not backtracking even when he's forced to make a public apology.


Good post. US has its own problems but has sold out to China.




Adam Silver. Punk. Steve Kerr. Punk. Popovich is a punk too, maybe the biggest punk because he's the senior statesman when it comes to NBA stature, but he's MIA when it comes to stand up for Morey.

Who was forced to delete his own statement.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/07/houston-rockets-gm-morey-deletes-tweet-about-hong-kong.html


My politics and his are not the same, but Doc Rivers is no punk. I respect the man tremendously. Welcome to dinner at my house anytime and if he were my coach, hell yes I would run through a wall for him.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1544 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:18 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Adam Silver. Punk. Steve Kerr. Punk. Popovich is a punk too, maybe the biggest punk because he's the senior statesman when it comes to NBA stature, but he's MIA when it comes to stand up for Morey.

Who was forced to delete his own statement.

:nod:
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1545 » by QRich3 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:27 am

I don't get the people criticizing Pop and Kerr, like I don't know what people expect here. Just because someone gives his opinion on Donald Trump and you don't like it, it doesn't force them to give their opinion on every matter you now want them to. Specially when it's about freedom in a foreign place with an authoritarian government that limits communication both in and outside, and is known to leverage their economic position over the smallest, pettiest crap. It's a very complex situation even for experts on the matter, you can't expect some sports coach to have a nuanced opinion on the matter.

In general, givin your opinion on local politics doesn't mean you have to dedicate your life to being a political martyr, or have a strong opinion every time a political subject comes around, and it's silly to suggest so.

And I'll clarify that I'm more than happy with Silver's general response to the matter, since I'm quoted upthread not liking the league's first reaction.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1546 » by esqtvd » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:03 pm

Punks. Real brave with the senile Sterling but fold like a cheap suit when somebody can hit back.



NBA Fans Supporting Hong Kong Protests Are Getting Kicked Out Of Games And Their Signs Confiscated

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/hong-kong-nba-fans-signs-protests
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1547 » by nickhx2 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:24 pm

QRich3 wrote:I don't get the people criticizing Pop and Kerr, like I don't know what people expect here. Just because someone gives his opinion on Donald Trump and you don't like it, it doesn't force them to give their opinion on every matter you now want them to. Specially when it's about freedom in a foreign place with an authoritarian government that limits communication both in and outside, and is known to leverage their economic position over the smallest, pettiest crap. It's a very complex situation even for experts on the matter, you can't expect some sports coach to have a nuanced opinion on the matter.

In general, givin your opinion on local politics doesn't mean you have to dedicate your life to being a political martyr, or have a strong opinion every time a political subject comes around, and it's silly to suggest so.

And I'll clarify that I'm more than happy with Silver's general response to the matter, since I'm quoted upthread not liking the league's first reaction.


agree fully
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1548 » by esqtvd » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:15 pm

Silver and the NBA hide behind supporting "freedom of speech," and then they throw fans out for exercising it. "No politics" is a joke after the way the NBA has stuck its nose in politics all over the country.


https://abc13.com/sports/free-hong-kong-chants-get-fans-kicked-out-of-nba-game/5606342/


While Kerr and Popovich and now LeBron shut up for the first time in their lives and hide behind the NBA's greedy corporate skirts [like all corporate skirts--where it comes to greed, the NBA is no exception], I just hope NBA fans won't take this hypocrisy lying down.




[Not that I blame LeBron and the players so much. Silver and the league left Daryl Morey to twist in the wind for days and finally ignobly delete his tweet. Screw that. And unlike Kerr and Popovich, players have endorsements and real money on the line. They are NOT happy with Silver's handling of this.]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255709/LeBron-James-Put-Onus-Back-On-NBA-To-Articulate-China-Position-Before-Asking-Players-To


    LeBron James spoke up and said he believed Silver and the NBA needed to explain and articulate their position first before the players would have to.

    ...

    James then led a joint players-only meeting after the session with Silver.

    “Why are we the ones to go through the risks of speaking out in China when the league should be the first to address the matter, with our voices to follow?” said one source with knowledge of the meeting and the players’ thinking in regard to James’ message.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1549 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:44 am

esqtvd wrote:Punks. Real brave with the senile Sterling but fold like a cheap suit when somebody can hit back.



NBA Fans Supporting Hong Kong Protests Are Getting Kicked Out Of Games And Their Signs Confiscated

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/hong-kong-nba-fans-signs-protests

Unbelievable.

Corny.
Punks.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1550 » by esqtvd » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:54 am

oh me
oh my

Bron Inc makes his move
and the fit hits the shan


Read on Twitter

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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1551 » by QRich3 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:43 am

I don't want to get too deep into this cause it's a politics affair that's probably better suited to another part of the forum, and I'm not even all that informed on the subject. But "I ain't no punk" is not really a way to approach an issue like this. This is a serious diplomatic issue with ramifications for billions of people, it's not a playground argument where Silver needs to show how tough he is.

Lebron's comments are a bad look though, and this is why guys don't want to comment one way or the other. Just like the league did after their first statement, he's now looking to take a hit locally for fear of taking another hit in the Chinese market. He's looking to lose a lot whatever he comments.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1552 » by esqtvd » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:56 am

QRich3 wrote:I don't want to get too deep into this cause it's a politics affair that's probably better suited to another part of the forum, and I'm not even all that informed on the subject. But "I ain't no punk" is not really a way to approach an issue like this. This is a serious diplomatic issue with ramifications for billions of people, it's not a playground argument where Silver needs to show how tough he is.

Lebron's comments are a bad look though, and this is why guys don't want to comment one way or the other. Just like the league did after their first statement, he's now looking to take a hit locally for fear of taking another hit in the Chinese market. He's looking to lose a lot whatever he comments.



Oh but please do get deep into it, Q. Nobody wants to "get deep into it." That's the problem here. Everybody is pretending they don't know jackspit about China. "I haven't studied it." What a joke. The whole world knows about Tiananmen.

This has nothing to do with the politics of China oppressing Hong Kong anymore. It has to do with the cowardice of NBA Incorporated. At least Bron Inc has the guts to say don't mess with my bank account.
___________________

To Quake:

Punks are people who act big until they're called out. I've been on best behavior as all this went down and saw it all coming. Now they all just got called out. Silver. Kerr and Pop. Now Bron. This flustercuck is all theirs now. Let's sit back and see what happens. Let them eat each other. [As if.]


Daryl Morey and I and maybe Quake will sit back and watch. All I know is that Daryl Morey is the victim here, the only one who spoke the truth about China. The rest of them can all go to hell. They sold him out. LeBron just sold him out. Bigtime.

Whose side will Silver come down on? And Kerr and Popovich? This is all a farce. Let's watch it play out. Weasels all.

"WELL, Bron has a right to his opinion that if you have an opinion about Hong Kong's freedom protests, you have the right to STFU."


Punks.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1553 » by QRich3 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:53 pm

esqtvd wrote:
QRich3 wrote:I don't want to get too deep into this cause it's a politics affair that's probably better suited to another part of the forum, and I'm not even all that informed on the subject. But "I ain't no punk" is not really a way to approach an issue like this. This is a serious diplomatic issue with ramifications for billions of people, it's not a playground argument where Silver needs to show how tough he is.

Lebron's comments are a bad look though, and this is why guys don't want to comment one way or the other. Just like the league did after their first statement, he's now looking to take a hit locally for fear of taking another hit in the Chinese market. He's looking to lose a lot whatever he comments.



Oh but please do get deep into it, Q. Nobody wants to "get deep into it." That's the problem here. Everybody is pretending they don't know jackspit about China. "I haven't studied it." What a joke. The whole world knows about Tiananmen.

This has nothing to do with the politics of China oppressing Hong Kong anymore. It has to do with the cowardice of NBA Incorporated. At least Bron Inc has the guts to say don't mess with my bank account.

The problem is you, and a lot of people, want to make it a slam dunk issue where China = bad villains and Hong Kong = oppressed heroes. And it's way more nuanced and difficult than that. You need to actually be informed about what's happening in there, how and why. And I'm not, and I'm willing to bet you aren't either, with the amount of information that comes out.

And these people only want athletes to scream "China bad!" and "FU China" because it's beneficial to them from an American perspective. None of these people really care about the Chinese people, the people in Hong Kong, the Uyghurs, or other conflicts going on right now around the world. No one's asking athletes to position themselves in the Yemen conflict or the situation in Ukraine. That's in one hand, because it was China who decided to interfere into what the NBA does by trying to boycott the hell out of Morey, and that's ok. But it's also because China and America are in the middle of a trade conflict, and it suits America to paint China as the bad guy in any situation. There's a lot of things to criticize about the Chinese government and the way they conduct themselves, and about how a sector of the Chinese population are willing use their outrage as a weapon for the benefit of their government. But it's not NBA players' place to do it unless they choose to.

So if you want to talk about China's meddling into what Morey can or can't do, I'm all for it, and that's what Silver addressed, and what I'm happy with. If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical, and it's not a conversation I want to have.

That's a lot more deep than I wanted to get, and as far as I'm gonna get here. If you wanna keep discussing the issue privately, I'm all for it.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1554 » by esqtvd » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:04 pm

QRich3 wrote:
So if you want to talk about China's meddling into what Morey can or can't do, I'm all for it, and that's what Silver addressed, and what I'm happy with. If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical, and it's not a conversation I want to have.

That's a lot more deep than I wanted to get, and as far as I'm gonna get here. If you wanna keep discussing the issue privately, I'm all for it.




Has nothing to do with China's "meddling," Mr. Moderator. All about the NBA's behavior.



And the thing about

If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical




is WAY out of line. I think you should let someone else moderate this debate, and recuse yourself from this thread until you do.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1555 » by esqtvd » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:39 pm

Well, this didn't take long. The morning paper. Bron really stepped in it. Will Adam Silver and the rest slip off the hook and let King James do the dangling? Somehow I think they'll all weasel out on this somehow LOL. Billions are at stake. When billions don't talk, they still buy silence. But for now, people are pissed.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/10/14/lebron-james-daryl-morey-china-hong-kong-tweet/3982436002/'


Opinion: LeBron James undermines values he's espoused in most disgraceful moment of career


    On behalf of the 327 million American citizens who generally believe that freedom is good and authoritarian regimes are less good, let me apologize to LeBron James of the Los Angeles Lakers.

    It must have been a real inconvenience to take that 13-hour chartered flight to China last week and hang around a luxury hotel in Shanghai for five days while promotional appearances got canceled. Surely it was awful to be in the middle of an international firestorm where the stakes were so high: Would preseason NBA games be played or not?

    And to think, LeBron and his teammates were so disrupted all because Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey had the temerity to send a relatively anodyne tweet supporting a protest that pretty much every one of his countrymen — whether on the left or right side of the political spectrum — would agree with over the rights Hong Kongers were promised when the United Kingdom handed control of the territory over to China in 1997.

    My team and this league just went through a difficult week. I think people need to understand what a tweet or statement can do to others. And I believe nobody stopped and considered what would happen. Could have waited a week to send it.

    — LeBron James (@KingJames) October 15, 2019

    Right on, LeBron. Millions in Hong Kong are fearful that their entire way of life is about to change, and thousands upon thousands of protesters are risking their lives to make a stand for their freedom and their future. Why would Morey think about them when your preseason vacation and your bank account is at stake? How selfish of him.


Morey is the victim here. It was a common-sense tweet about China's communist tyranny, not even controversial in America. Can't wait to see what shakes out.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1556 » by QRich3 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:23 pm

esqtvd wrote:
QRich3 wrote:
So if you want to talk about China's meddling into what Morey can or can't do, I'm all for it, and that's what Silver addressed, and what I'm happy with. If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical, and it's not a conversation I want to have.

That's a lot more deep than I wanted to get, and as far as I'm gonna get here. If you wanna keep discussing the issue privately, I'm all for it.


Has nothing to do with China's "meddling," Mr. Moderator. All about the NBA's behavior.

And the thing about

If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical


is WAY out of line. I think you should let someone else moderate this debate, and recuse yourself from this thread until you do.

Me being a moderator has zero to do with my opinion in this debate, if you have an issue with the content of my post, you can report it, and I assure you I won't be the one dealing with it, but the other moderators. And I think you know them enough to trust they're not gonna be partial against either of us.

Sorry if I offended you, but like I've been saying, this is a highly delicate situation with big ramifications and lots of nuances, many of which most of us don't even know about. You can't pressure me into expanding my opinion, and then at the first turn where I make you consider our position in it, ask me to recluse myself. I mean, you can, but it's not fair to the conversation.

However, this being a basketball forum, and it already having a section where politics and world affairs are discussed, I'm good with leaving it right here, and apologizing if I offended anyone.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1557 » by TheNewEra » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:25 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:
Read on Twitter


lol.
Doc offering his support for this choke artist.

Appreciate the sentiment, Doc but you're making it easier for LAD to accept this choke artist.
He must be traded.
Kershaw wasn't there for you when you coughed up a 3-1 lead.

Exactly
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1558 » by esqtvd » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:14 pm

QRich3 wrote:

Me being a moderator has zero to do with my opinion in this debate, if you have an issue with the content of my post, you can report it, and I assure you I won't be the one dealing with it, but the other moderators. And I think you know them enough to trust they're not gonna be partial against either of us.

Sorry if I offended you, but like I've been saying, this is a highly delicate situation with big ramifications and lots of nuances, many of which most of us don't even know about. You can't pressure me into expanding my opinion, and then at the first turn where I make you consider our position in it, ask me to recluse myself. I mean, you can, but it's not fair to the conversation.

However, this being a basketball forum, and it already having a section where politics and world affairs are discussed, I'm good with leaving it right here, and apologizing if I offended anyone.



I accept your apology because this

If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical


IS offensive, both its nasty slander that I want "Chinese blood" and the personal attack and accusation of hypocrisy. Way out of line, sir.

___________________


And it's not a delicate situation at all. It's a tsunami. Even the usual SJW suspects like Bill Plaschke and the LA Times can't talk LeBron out of this one.

Column: For LeBron James, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere … except in China

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2019-10-15/lebron-james-nba-china-daryl-morey-tweet-plaschke

    In tapping his inner mercenary, James revealed that even the sports world’s leading social equality warrior has his limits.

    Sure, he said, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere … except in China, because that’s where he sells truckloads of jerseys and shoes.

    So freedom of speech is OK as long as it doesn’t inconvenience anyone? Yet back in 2012, on the afternoon of a game, James orchestrated one of his most powerful demonstrations when he and his Miami Heat teammates posed for a picture wearing hooded sweatshirts with heads bowed and faces hidden to protest the killing of teen Trayvon Martin.



Wow. Laker Nation never quite fell in love with LeBron during his injury-riddled first season and subsequent missing of the playoffs [again]. I wonder if success on the court this year can heal the hurt.

Probably, but the Lakers fans have surprised me before, sticking by their team through what was easily the worst 5-year span since they arrived in LA. I hated them as frontrunners--and some were--but the Lakes continued to sell out regularly and the TV ratings remained high, still better than the Clippers while they were piling up 50-win seasons and the Lakers were piling up 50- and even 60-loss campaigns.

The fact is, King James isn't all that loveable to begin with, and after this, it's hard to say there's really a decent guy underneath. I wonder what will happen now as the battle for the hearts of LA unfolds.



As for Adam Silver and HIS hypocrisy about "no politics" and his lame and ultimately insincere defense of Morey's "freedom of speech," Plaschke didn't spare the rod on him either.

    To be fair, James isn’t the only one who’s been acting like a Chinese footstool. At the sight of the first Beijing frown, the NBA quickly rolled over and begged for forgiveness.

    Morey deleted the tweet and modified his comments. Commissioner Adam Silver issued a public love note to China that sounded so much like an apology, American lawmakers criticized him for it. The NBA allowed the Chinese to not only cancel all media availability with the Lakers and Nets, but even cancel Silver’s news conference, selling out not just their values, but their actual freedom of speech. Think about that message. Even when the politically tinged Olympics were held in Beijing in 2008, the athletes were not silenced.

    By treating the Chinese government like its most influential owner, the NBA was shameful in ways that betrayed the league’s well-earned image of inclusion and tolerance and social awareness. Once the Chinese began to take punitive actions, Silver should have ordered the Lakers and Nets to immediately return home without ever playing a game there. The decision to allow them to essentially become pawns in a showcase of Chinese indignation felt, well, uneducated.


Now the only question is whether NBA fans will continue the protest at games or at least outside the arenas. I hope they won't give Silver and the league a pass on this, and will dare him to throw them out for expressing the same freedom of speech that the NBA has so freely exercised.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1559 » by QRich3 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:14 am

esqtvd wrote:
QRich3 wrote:Me being a moderator has zero to do with my opinion in this debate, if you have an issue with the content of my post, you can report it, and I assure you I won't be the one dealing with it, but the other moderators. And I think you know them enough to trust they're not gonna be partial against either of us.

Sorry if I offended you, but like I've been saying, this is a highly delicate situation with big ramifications and lots of nuances, many of which most of us don't even know about. You can't pressure me into expanding my opinion, and then at the first turn where I make you consider our position in it, ask me to recluse myself. I mean, you can, but it's not fair to the conversation.

However, this being a basketball forum, and it already having a section where politics and world affairs are discussed, I'm good with leaving it right here, and apologizing if I offended anyone.



I accept your apology because this

If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical


IS offensive, both its nasty slander that I want "Chinese blood" and the personal attack and accusation of hypocrisy. Way out of line, sir.

Well re-reading myself, I think I misspoke by talking about blood, I meant it in the figurative sense that you're out for blood, that you're looking for players/coaches to explicitly attack the Chinese government, but I now realize that since we're talking about a human rights issue you might've taken it as me accusing you of asking for literal blood. So I again apologize for that.

However, I do think it's important to put in context why you, and from what I gather the majority of the NBA fandom, are insisting in players speaking out on this particular issue and not others which are probably more grave. And it's not whataboutism, I think it's important to frame the reason why you're trying to force people to publicly speak out about one certain injustice, even if they're clearly avoiding it cause it will have very serious and lasting repercussions for anyone who does it. Repercussions you and me don't suffer because we're anonymous people in the internet, so it's very easy for us to put our mouth where we know our money is not gonna be.

That's one thing, that each person has the right to decide if he wants to speak out to the detriment of his livelihood or not. It'd be great if everyone was Muhammad Ali and took it upon himself to speak out about injustice to their own detriment, but it's not a reasonable standard to ask for in anyone, NBA players or regular people.

Then, another thing is what Lebron just did, which is explicitly criticize Morey's right to be that person that speaks out about what he thinks is fair, and privately calling for his head, just because it hurts Lebron's bottom line. That's ugly, that is something out of line for me. I don't ask of Lebron to risk his livelihood by speaking out about authoritarian countries, but he has no right to speak against someone who does it.

I have to point out though, the irony of you using the term "SJW" while you're trying to criticize people for not speaking up about freedom of speech and the freedom of the people in Hong Kong. Do we want people to fight about social justice or do we mock them for it? I know it's a common term in certain circles, but it just highlights so well the contradiction of what you're asking athletes to do, and why.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1560 » by esqtvd » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:36 pm

QRich3 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
QRich3 wrote:Me being a moderator has zero to do with my opinion in this debate, if you have an issue with the content of my post, you can report it, and I assure you I won't be the one dealing with it, but the other moderators. And I think you know them enough to trust they're not gonna be partial against either of us.

Sorry if I offended you, but like I've been saying, this is a highly delicate situation with big ramifications and lots of nuances, many of which most of us don't even know about. You can't pressure me into expanding my opinion, and then at the first turn where I make you consider our position in it, ask me to recluse myself. I mean, you can, but it's not fair to the conversation.

However, this being a basketball forum, and it already having a section where politics and world affairs are discussed, I'm good with leaving it right here, and apologizing if I offended anyone.



I accept your apology because this

If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical


IS offensive, both its nasty slander that I want "Chinese blood" and the personal attack and accusation of hypocrisy. Way out of line, sir.

Well re-reading myself, I think I misspoke by talking about blood, I meant it in the figurative sense that you're out for blood, that you're looking for players/coaches to explicitly attack the Chinese government, but I now realize that since we're talking about a human rights issue you might've taken it as me accusing you of asking for literal blood. So I again apologize for that.

However, I do think it's important to put in context why you, and from what I gather the majority of the NBA fandom, are insisting in players speaking out on this particular issue and not others which are probably more grave. And it's not whataboutism, I think it's important to frame the reason why you're trying to force people to publicly speak out about one certain injustice, even if they're clearly avoiding it cause it will have very serious and lasting repercussions for anyone who does it. Repercussions you and me don't suffer because we're anonymous people in the internet, so it's very easy for us to put our mouth where we know our money is not gonna be.

That's one thing, that each person has the right to decide if he wants to speak out to the detriment of his livelihood or not. It'd be great if everyone was Muhammad Ali and took it upon himself to speak out about injustice to their own detriment, but it's not a reasonable standard to ask for in anyone, NBA players or regular people.

Then, another thing is what Lebron just did, which is explicitly criticize Morey's right to be that person that speaks out about what he thinks is fair, and privately calling for his head, just because it hurts Lebron's bottom line. That's ugly, that is something out of line for me. I don't ask of Lebron to risk his livelihood by speaking out about authoritarian countries, but he has no right to speak against someone who does it.

I have to point out though, the irony of you using the term "SJW" while you're trying to criticize people for not speaking up about freedom of speech and the freedom of the people in Hong Kong. Do we want people to fight about social justice or do we mock them for it? I know it's a common term in certain circles, but it just highlights so well the contradiction of what you're asking athletes to do, and why.



For such erudite and outspoken men such as Kerr and Popovich to pretend they "have not studied" the China situation is an insult to the intelligence. And the extent of China's human rights abuses is not remotely comparable to the US, particularly Kerr's fatuous whataboutism re "assault weapons" and the Second Amendment. YMMV on this latter point, but it is quite reasonable for we other Americans to criticize Kerr for what we consider a craven and dishonest argument.

https://www.newsweek.com/dear-steve-kerr-never-mind-lebron-james-americans-expect-more-you-hong-kong-china-opinion-1465398


I agree with you about LeBron. I hope he's booed all over America everytime he touches the ball. And worst of all, how Daryl Morey--the only one who actually behaved like Ali--was hung out to dry is a disgrace to Bron, the NBA, and to all involved. That's the part that's going to get buried, and it will have a chilling effect on guys like Morey speaking the truth in the future. Next time they will just dummy up. Count on it.

Likewise, the problem with

If you want Chinese blood to satisfy your American 1st world power status, I think you're being selfish and hypocritical


was more than just the unfortunate "Chinese blood" phrase. I'm not going to endure that crap without objection, but there are many who keep silent rather than expose themselves to such abuse. As a moderator I think such willingness to attack someone personally could have a chilling effect on dialogue on our board. It should be possible to speak opinions on this or any matter while leaving personal stuff like that out of it, and I appreciate your doing so in your followup here.

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LATE ADD:

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/raptors-fans-to-give-away-thousands-of-pro-hong-kong-t-shirts-for-home-opener/


Now that's cool.

____________________

LATE LATE ADD:

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/10/17/lakers-fan-raises-43k-stand-with-hong-kong-shirts


Even cooler.

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