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Around the NBA II

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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1881 » by og15 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:50 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
wco81 wrote:
og15 wrote:It was a tough finish for them, even the FT's didn't drop


If they lose this series no way they can keep Doc, who’s coached like 4 or 5 big collapse in the playoffs in the last two seasons. Either cursed or incompetence.

Doc's only elite skills as a coach are making excuses and deflecting blame. It's how he kept his job here for so long through all the collapses, and likely why the Celtics didn't fire him after their historic 18-game losing streak with prime Pierce. No way he's getting fired this early in Philly.

Doc is going to use Ben Simmons as the scapegoat for this year, and it will work because Simmons is such a polarizing player. However, what will be conveniently left out of the narrative is that Mr. Master Motivator couldn't motivate Ben to work on his game or shoot the ball. Doc is a total doormat for his teams' stars, he never holds them accountable for anything. The only star who's ever improved under Doc is Blake Griffin, and that had nothing to do with Doc's "coaching." Blake was just self-motivated and had an insane work ethic that few ever gave him credit for, the polar opposite of Simmons.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Doc has his flaws, but it doesn't have to mean he has no positive help for a team. Tobias has played well under him.

Blake specifically said when Doc came that the difference between him and VDN was that they directed him on how to work on his game and where they wanted to use him on the floor, and that's how he tailored his off-season work.

Embiid just had his career best offensive season under Doc.

DJ who was a borderline/lower level star under with Doc improved under Doc because Doc honed in his game and said this is what you need to do. Basically don't try to be like a McGee at the time who wanted to show he had offensive skills and would make bonehead plays trying to do too much. Focus on defense and rebounding as your calling card.

Doc's constant problem seems to be that he has a hard time going away from his set rotations and adjusting his lineups drastically. There's just no universe where I can imagine Doc benching a healthy Beverley for a whole series, sidelining Rondo, bringing guys who are the 9th and 10th guys into the top 7-8 rotation, etc, etc. The reason I say this is because Doc simply has never done that in all his years of coaching, regardless of the depth on his team.

He continues to say, "this has been working, it will work", and while to some extent there's truth that you don't just dump everything after a bad half, game, etc, there's also the need to see what the situation calls for, and Doc seems to never feel comfortable making big changes. I can understand doing that in his first years of coaching, but with his history and at this point, you would think he would have adjusted.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1882 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:56 pm

I wouldn't count DJ as a star, personally. His ceiling was a poor man's Clint Capela, and nobody thinks Capela is a star.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1883 » by wco81 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:25 pm

Wonder if Doc was one of those who advocated for not trading for Lowry because they want to keep Maxie.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1884 » by LamarWho » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm

Doc's philosophy on lineups and rotations: We don't adjust to our opponents, our opponents adjust to us.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1885 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:40 pm

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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1886 » by og15 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:06 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:I wouldn't count DJ as a star, personally. His ceiling was a poor man's Clint Capela, and nobody thinks Capela is a star.

That's fine. DJ was a borderline star, a guy who could get into the All-Star game based on the year and circumstances and who could have star like impact on a game with his defense, rebounding and finishing, but wasn't good enough to do it consistently. Certainly not any sort of perennial All-Star, but regardless, Doc helped him improve. TMac had his best season under Doc, whether we give Doc any credit there or not, he certainly didn't hold him back.

I don't think the pendulum should swing so far to say he does nothing for players. On the other hand, I think there's too much data in different team situations for anyone to deny that Doc has issues with in game and between game adjustments. Not everything is under his control, and players play, but coaches also have to put the right people on the floor and make the right strategic adjustments to help their players succeed. Doc certainly seems to be quite tentative to shake things up.

This team has had Doc for so long that to see what Lue has done in these playoffs just seems awkward.

If we have only the Celtics taking too many games to win their series' against inferior teams, and Clippers losing after up 3-1 to Houston, we can say, okay, he got unlucky.

When we add last season's Clippers losing up 3-1, and if his Philly team doesn't win this series, and we see different coaches in similar situations making adjustments that Doc would just not make those, then yes, it is an area of weakness for him as a coach.

He is in no way a perfect coach, and that's an issue that has showed up enough times where it becomes a pattern. Doc does adjust, he can make the obvious adjustment, but it is extremely unlikely to see him make one that shakes things up (eg: bench a vet let alone multiple, totally change rotation, etc), he prefers to stick with what has been working and believe that this time it will work. That does work sometimes, but in the playoffs, other things can be needed.

Philly isn't out of the series though.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1887 » by Clemenza » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:44 pm

Ric Carlisle stepped down today. Wow they're spiraling downward fast
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1888 » by nickhx2 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:32 pm

frank lawrence better get to scouting some luka games lmao
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1889 » by og15 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:27 pm

Clemenza wrote:Ric Carlisle stepped down today. Wow they're spiraling downward fast

Something is definitely up in Dallas


Kemba + 16th for Horford

Kemba definitely did not work for the Celtics
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1890 » by Captain Ballmer » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:41 pm

Wow. Luka taking over. After Donnie left, Carlisle understand that he has no inside man in FO to vague for him against Luka and his hotwaves. They were working for 13 years but it's easy to see things would go south for Carlisle if he stayed any longer.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1891 » by NippySudz » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:04 pm

Captain Ballmer wrote:Wow. Luka taking over. After Donnie left, Carlisle understand that he has no inside man in FO to vague for him against Luka and his hotwaves. They were working for 13 years but it's easy to see things would go south for Carlisle if he stayed any longer.

Don't believe the media. They are panting it as the Luka/Rick rift. It's not. Donnie drafted Luka and knew him for years. Donnie and Mark have conflict. Donnie left, so rick left. Rick is more loyal to Donnie than he is the mavs. Was rick a stickler, yes. But I don't think the relationship played a part.

Remember, media is not always right. They print BS all the time. They said MJ drafted Kwame Brown. Come to find out, 20 years later, Kwame revelaed MJ never wanted him and several players backed that story.

Media said MJ had the flu, come to find out, it was a stomach virus from bad utah pizza.

To me, its quite clear, that Mark Cuban wants to be involved in every basketball decision and his hubris is affecting the maverick organization from top down.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1892 » by MartinToVaught » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:23 pm

Captain Ballmer wrote:Wow. Luka taking over. After Donnie left, Carlisle understand that he has no inside man in FO to vague for him against Luka and his hotwaves. They were working for 13 years but it's easy to see things would go south for Carlisle if he stayed any longer.

It doesn't sound like Luka's taking over. They've been firing everyone but the guy Luka hates. What's actually happening is that Cuban has turned into Jerry Jones 2.0. One ring was enough to massively inflate his ego. Now he thinks he's the smartest person in the room and is surrounding himself with yes-men while meddling in the basketball decisions.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1893 » by nickhx2 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:00 am

omg wow atl really blitzing philly right now out of the gates

how do you lose two games with two huge leads in a row and come out in an elim game like this? jeez
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1894 » by NippySudz » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:07 am

nickhx2 wrote:omg wow atl really blitzing philly right now out of the gates

how do you lose two games with two huge leads in a row and come out in an elim game like this? jeez

Doc: The trust is average. Let's get that trust up.

He literally said that. :lol:

That's kind of a bad sign tbh
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1895 » by MartinToVaught » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:10 am

NippySudz wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:omg wow atl really blitzing philly right now out of the gates

how do you lose two games with two huge leads in a row and come out in an elim game like this? jeez

Doc: The trust is average. Let's get that trust up.

He literally said that. :lol:

That's kind of a bad sign tbh

Never mind that, how about his comments before the game? "I THINK they'll be ready, but you never know." You're the coach, it's your job to get them ready and you'd better know!
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1896 » by nickhx2 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:12 am

NippySudz wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:omg wow atl really blitzing philly right now out of the gates

how do you lose two games with two huge leads in a row and come out in an elim game like this? jeez

Doc: The trust is average. Let's get that trust up.

He literally said that. :lol:

That's kind of a bad sign tbh


to be fair all those coach mic up moments make them ALL look stupid because they can only show really simple comments lol
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1897 » by MartinToVaught » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:16 am

The Hawks should be up by WAY more right now. They need to clean up the sloppy play. Seth Curry is trying to bail out Doc's legacy.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1898 » by nickhx2 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:16 am

i'd be pretty alarmed right now as a 76ers fan.

body language looks really bad after hawks backup big got to the rim uncontested for a second time. and embiid needs to be DOMINATING but that's not the case.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1899 » by nickhx2 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:20 am

did doc gain weight? seems pudgier than his clipper days. could just be he's not wearing a suit lol.

i wonder what some of these guys think when they look at their old pictures from their playing days. like i saw caron butler recently and man that dude really let himself go.
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Re: Around the NBA II 

Post#1900 » by MartinToVaught » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:25 am

This game is a perfect illustration of why we traded Lou so far. He's the Sixers' MVP at the moment.
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