RealGM

your chronology is wrong
DJ had already agreed to sign with the Mavs
Doc had made no effort to re-sign him til Blake and DJ initiated it

madmaxmedia wrote:I always though DJ was a pretty good player in his prime, but only within his limits (which were significant of course.)

That definitely sets a upper limit on what you wanted pay him even in his prime, but he did a pretty good job of making a solid NBA career out of very humble beginnings.

DJ was overpaid in all but 2 or 3 seasons of his career. We matched GSW's outrageous RFA offer [4 years @ $10M+] in 2011 then when Doc tried to dump him in 2015, Blake and JJ pulled the emoji intervention to keep him from the MAVS and we got stuck with him @$20M+ for THREE YEARS.

THEN a butthurt Mark Cuban gave him another $23M for 1 year--dumping his sorry ass within 6 months in the Porzingas trade.

THEN his friendship with Durant scored him another 4 years at $10M/yr. BKN dumped him on DET who bought him out without ever playing a minute for them.

THEN DeAndre got another $2.6M out of the Lakers for this year where he now collects DNPs like butterflies in the spring.


$151 million. Sweet. Thanks, Doc. Thanks, Blake. Thanks, Mr. Ballmer. Mr. Cuban. Thanks, KD.





What I didn't remember was how Doc DID try to dump him but the troops mutinied. CP wanted him gone too, I think, but iirc as a last attempt to get Lob City all on the same page, in the end accepted a ride on Ballmer's private jet to do the One-For-All, All-For-One thing.

esqtvd wrote:your chronology is wrong
DJ had already agreed to sign with the Mavs
Doc had made no effort to re-sign him til Blake and DJ initiated it

I don't think the team actually expected him to leave. Otherwise Doc would have been begging him to stay before he picked the Mavs.

This is the same guy who gave an aging Jamal Crawford $42 million during the following offseason - despite the fact that everyone knew he'd never show up in the playoffs - because it was the path of least resistance. Doc was never going to split that team up willingly.

yes you said that already but Doc did not initiate contact with DJ

as for the crazy summer of 2016, we were capped out--it was either overpay Jamal and Austin or have to replace them with players at the minimum, which would have been suicide


Why NBA teams are signing so-so players to massive contracts

The combination of a massive jump in the salary cap, a weak free-agent class and a desire by teams to fill that space will totally warp the pay structure of the NBA. Don't go too crazy when you see some of these contracts.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/6/30/12056030/nba-salary-cap-2016-details-free-agents-ridiculous

esqtvd wrote:as for the crazy summer of 2016, we were capped out--it was either overpay Jamal and Austin or have to replace them with players at the minimum, which would have been suicide

Letting them walk would have been addition by subtraction. I'm sure we could have found a minimum salary player to miss layups and get blown by on defense like Austin did.

whatever
I can only deal with facts

https://clipperholics.com/2016/07/01/clippers-rumors-austin-rivers-talking-with-knicks-blazers/

Beverley showing once again last night why I don't miss him at all and was totally on board with the trade (even though Bledsoe isn't very good).

This was his postgame reaction to getting torched by Donovan Mitchell in a 32-point loss:



Wow. It feels like he spends 90% of every season now either on the bench with an injury or making an ass out of himself.

When I look at the NBA landscape for realistic trade possibilities and what we have to offer, I keep getting drawn to the Indiana Pacers.

I think we would improve ourselves significantly if we could make a move to get Myles Turner and Torrey Craig. I would try to offer a package of Kennard, Zubac and Winslow. Turner is a much better shot blocker, but isn't going to be in Indy's long term plans. Kennard grew up not far from Indianapolis. Torrey great is a guy to have for the playoffs. The guy has a ton of playoff experience and is a darn good defender.

Bulls fan here. Under the assumption that Batum declines his player option next year since he's playing well, would you accept either of the following trades.

Portland 1st (top 16 protected through 2018, then a 2nd rounder after) + TPE for Batum

Or

Coby White for Batum + filler.

This has just been hanging here, so I'll take it.

Coby White is ... interesting for a team like us. If we're injury ravaged (kinda like ... now), his scoring would be a major help. Right now, his decision making is kind of bad and his D is, well, maybe bad but improving some says it. I figure this is what they say in Chicago as well. He's actually pretty well paired on a second unit with Dosunmu, who's a much more in control player and good defender.

Anyway, we'd make that trade in a second. In a second. Doubt the bulls would, though. I'm aware of Coby's weaknesses. 'm also aware that the Bulls are 13-4 when he plays, and 11-1 (not a misprint, for Clippers fans) when he gets 20+ mpg. I watched him in school, and he reminded of Jerry Stackhouse with more range--also, for Clips fans, kinda like Cat Mobley. He had 30 games of 20 points or more in his first two seasons. He's still only 21. People that can score like that are rare and worth keeping. Would love it if the Bulls felt like trading him for Batum. Don't see it happening.

If the Clippers had the assets, one of Fox or Haliburton would be a great addition, but I can't see what the Kings would be interested in from a team like the Clippers except for maybe like all the rookies or something.

Haliburton would obviously be preferable from a contract, shooting and playmaking perspective, but that smaller contract makes him the harder one to acquire and if I'm the Kings, the one I'm less interested in trading anyways.

og15 wrote:If the Clippers had the assets, one of Fox or Haliburton would be a great addition, but I can't see what the Kings would be interested in from a team like the Clippers except for maybe like all the rookies or something.

Haliburton would obviously be preferable from a contract, shooting and playmaking perspective, but that smaller contract makes him the harder one to acquire and if I'm the Kings, the one I'm less interested in trading anyways.

I'd love Haliburton--for that matter, I'd love any of the Kings myriad of PGs. I don't what the hell they're thinking.

Not sure how, or for what, they're available, though. Going back to the previous post--I can see how Coby White is available. He's a high rotation player that has no place to get minutes on a team with Ball, LaVine and DeRozan, all of whom can run the offense (well), and also has good bench guards in Caruso and (Damn!) Dosunmu. White is the odd man out and is a work in progress.

He also has a high ceiling and has already made some incremental improvements in his decision making and defense. He's only 21. He's already averaged 16.4 points and 5.2 assist per game as a starter in more than 60 games; quite a sample size. A team like Bulls is looking for a piece to help get them to the top. If they wanted Serge or Batum, along with Boston and Preston, I'd do that in a Nanosecond.

TrueLAfan wrote:

og15 wrote:If the Clippers had the assets, one of Fox or Haliburton would be a great addition, but I can't see what the Kings would be interested in from a team like the Clippers except for maybe like all the rookies or something.

Haliburton would obviously be preferable from a contract, shooting and playmaking perspective, but that smaller contract makes him the harder one to acquire and if I'm the Kings, the one I'm less interested in trading anyways.

I'd love Haliburton--for that matter, I'd love any of the Kings myriad of PGs. I don't what the hell they're thinking.

Not sure how, or for what, they're available, though. Going back to the previous post--I can see how Coby White is available. He's a high rotation player that has no place to get minutes on a team with Ball, LaVine and DeRozan, all of whom can run the offense (well), and also has good bench guards in Caruso and (Damn!) Dosunmu. White is the odd man out and is a work in progress.

He also has a high ceiling and has already made some incremental improvements in his decision making and defense. He's only 21. He's already averaged 16.4 points and 5.2 assist per game as a starter in more than 60 games; quite a sample size. A team like Bulls is looking for a piece to help get them to the top. If they wanted Serge or Batum, along with Boston and Preston, I'd do that in a Nanosecond.

After you mentioned it, I was curious and looked at Coby White's last performances against a solid defensive team like Warriors. In the highlights video below shows he made stats when the difference in the game reach to 30 points, also it is obvious that he's decisions wasn't helpful when the competition was alive early on the game.

If we only have one bullet, I'd love to spend it on an established playmaker like Marcus Smart. Kennard+ a rookie maybe

Don’t get me wrong—but looking at one game, especially one where a major player got injured and rotations got totally messed up—is probably not the best way to judge a player. And I’d love Marcus Smart, but he’s not being moved. The possibility that Zack LaVine has a serious injury bums me out—not because I’m a Zach LaVine fan, but because the Bulls are (much) more likely to hold on to White.

Anyway, White is in a curiously bad situation. Like I said, the Bulls have multiple playmakers on their team this year. DeRozan, Ball, and LaVine are all 5 apg players. Caruso is the playmaker off the bench. White was drafted as a combo guard—but at 21, he’s now on a team that has a ton of scoring and playmaking from guards. If LaVine’s injury isn’t significant, he’s likely to be available. The Bulls need frontcourt help; a veteran that can play multiple positions and steady things in that area. Batum would be perfect for them.

And I get wanting a rookie, and I like the way we’re developing rookies—but I want to make two things clear in terms of player development. One is to not confuse potential with floor. Coby White has potential—but it’s not just to become a high rotation player or starter in the NBA. He’s already there. He’s still 21. He’s already scored over 2000 points in the NBA; already started more than 60 games. He’s what we desperately want our young guards to get to and he’s still on the upswing. Also—he hasn’t done that in a vacuum or on a terrible team. The Bulls were in transition last year, but weren’t that bad … especially when White played. Last year, the Bulls were 25-29 in games he started; 6-12 in games he didn’t start or didn’t play in. This year, they’re 5-1 in games he’s started, and 13-5 in games where he’s played 20 minutes or more. He already seems to be a guy that moves the needle at 21. That's huge.

Bottom line: He’s already a very good NBA scorer. He’s an adequate playmaker/decision maker—his assist TO ratio is around 2:1 now—but he’s playing (much) more at the 2 now. His shooting has improved every year; his D had improved too, but it needed to. Still—21 years old, already a good NBA player, decent starter, still improving. He has scoring and playmaking skills, which are exactly what we need right now.

TrueLAfan wrote:And I get wanting a rookie, and I like the way we’re developing rookies—but I want to make two things clear in terms of player development. One is to not confuse potential with floor. Coby White has potential—but it’s not just to become a high rotation player or starter in the NBA. He’s already there. He’s still 21. He’s already scored over 2000 points in the NBA; already started more than 60 games. He’s what we desperately want our young guards to get to and he’s still on the upswing. Also—he hasn’t done that in a vacuum or on a terrible team. The Bulls were in transition last year, but weren’t that bad … especially when White played. Last year, the Bulls were 25-29 in games he started; 6-12 in games he didn’t start or didn’t play in. This year, they’re 5-1 in games he’s started, and 13-5 in games where he’s played 20 minutes or more. He already seems to be a guy that moves the needle at 21. That's huge.

Bottom line: He’s already a very good NBA scorer. He’s an adequate playmaker/decision maker—his assist TO ratio is around 2:1 now—but he’s playing (much) more at the 2 now. His shooting has improved every year; his D had improved too, but it needed to. Still—21 years old, already a good NBA player, decent starter, still improving. He has scoring and playmaking skills, which are exactly what we need right now.

This is a really interesting point, it makes me think of the young guys we have right now and what we consider their ceilings to be vs. where they are.

A young prospect may have a high ceiling but currently have a low floor in terms of real NBA performance. They might occasionally drop 25 in a game which is nice to confirm their potential, but what is probably most telling (in terms of gauging their developmental progress) are their 'floor' type games- are they able to not lose games or even contribute to wins when they have off-shooting nights?

That was the interesting thing about Amir Coffey last year- he never really stood out in his minutes, but he was always able to play within himself and within the team, and shoot reasonably well doing so. He was a good minutes filler at multiple positions when we needed it. So his floor was relatively high for a young 2-way player, even if he never jumped out and showed a high ceiling.

This year he has been able to take that next step and raise his floor even higher, by continuing to play well with more minutes and becoming a much more prominent part of the offense- hopefully he can keep it up (more or less) for the rest of the season. Stringing together a series of solid, consistent games I think bodes well for a player's immediate future, more so than 1 or 2 huge games and turkeys in between (which can be a natural part of the process.) A high ceiling is great of course, but not every player fulfills that potential.

I think both Coffey and Mann are or will become good solid NBA players who would have a place on any roster, but their ultimate upsides are limited by their relative athleticism, and perhaps lack of high volume 3PT production (they're not bad 3PT shooters, just not great ones.)

Not sure how we could pull it off, but I'd love Brunson on the Clippers.

Well, it would help if we could manufacture a 1st round pick like we did when we got Harkless...

Mavs would be pretty dumb to let go of Brunson, but he can come and continue his dad's Clipper legacy.

That season was wild, I remember Rick taking big shots down the stretch with all the confidence in the world, lol

I highly doubt this happens, nor would I ever want it to.

I do have a weird feeling that the Clippers might sneak in as the third wheel in a Sixers-Nets trade, however.

Being involved as a 3rd wheel in a James Harden trade? Would not surprise me at all.
Actually trading for an expiring James Harden given our roster and salaries? Welcome to Bizzaro World!!