Same old Clippers

[wassuphomeboy]

Awful trade and no way to positively spin this one for me really. This really gets old. I really thought it was going to be different this time.

Still can't believe how they managed to screw up a superstar playing in THE premier destination for free agents, who was close friends with the BEST player in the NBA, who not only had an offseason home in said destination but also made open allusions to teaming up in the future

People act like rebuilding automatically means things will eventually get better (Timberwolves still haven't even made the playoffs ONCE since they traded KG TEN years ago, let alone contend)

God knows when the next chance to contend is going to come along

And the worst part is, all the armchair critics who know next to nothing about basketball get to say "I told you so" again

I really think we need to completely trash the second-place mentality and be just as demanding, if not more so, as Lakers fans for success. It may cost us some likability points but I'm over that at this point

I just hope we don't end up like the Cubs

[Forte IV]

Then stop being a fan. Just from the title of your post I can tell already you weren't a Clipper fan before CP3 like 95% of us.

[Neddy]

Awful trade and no way to positively spin this one for me really. This really gets old. I really thought it was going to be different this time.

Still can't believe how they managed to screw up a superstar playing in THE premier destination for free agents, who was close friends with the BEST player in the NBA, who not only had an offseason home in said destination but also made open allusions to teaming up in the future

People act like rebuilding automatically means things will eventually get better (Timberwolves still haven't even made the playoffs ONCE since they traded KG TEN years ago, let alone contend)

God knows when the next chance to contend is going to come along

And the worst part is, all the armchair critics who know next to nothing about basketball get to say "I told you so" again

I really think we need to completely trash the second-place mentality and be just as demanding, if not more so, as Lakers fans for success. It may cost us some likability points but I'm over that at this point

I just hope we don't end up like the Cubs

doesn't matter what the Flakers do. it is about us.

it also doesn't matter how long it takes for us to rebuild, we didn't have a prayer with GSW in their prime as they are built.

we have the richest sports owner who runs things because he loves being a basketball team owner, not because he wants to make money. Steve ballmer knows he isn' gonna make money on this franchise. he wants to win.

we now have the logo. enough said.

if you feel that we are the "same old clippers", well, I am sorry but I don't share the sentiment. I lived through the true dark days, from Danny Manning/Ron Harper/Mark Jackson/ Kenny Norman/ Benoit Benjamin/Gray Grant/Stanley Roberts and later Loy Vought and Eric Piakowski days. I can live through this and actually enjoy it. if you can't, my apologies.

[wassuphomeboy]

Then stop being a fan. Just from the title of your post I can tell already you weren't a Clipper fan before CP3 like 95% of us.

I was, which is EXACTLY why I don't want to go back. We've seen the same story before, maybe one time too many for myself.

People seem way too comfortable with going back to the lottery and rebuilding, because that's how it was for the majority of this team's history and it's what people are used to. I really don't need to remind everyone of how well that worked out in the end.

False hope is easy to hold on to, because it's easy to be tempted by the promise of tomorrow instead of the cold, concrete realities of today.

This is a results business

[wassuphomeboy]

Awful trade and no way to positively spin this one for me really. This really gets old. I really thought it was going to be different this time.

Still can't believe how they managed to screw up a superstar playing in THE premier destination for free agents, who was close friends with the BEST player in the NBA, who not only had an offseason home in said destination but also made open allusions to teaming up in the future

People act like rebuilding automatically means things will eventually get better (Timberwolves still haven't even made the playoffs ONCE since they traded KG TEN years ago, let alone contend)

God knows when the next chance to contend is going to come along

And the worst part is, all the armchair critics who know next to nothing about basketball get to say "I told you so" again

I really think we need to completely trash the second-place mentality and be just as demanding, if not more so, as Lakers fans for success. It may cost us some likability points but I'm over that at this point

I just hope we don't end up like the Cubs

doesn't matter what the Flakers do. it is about us.

it also doesn't matter how long it takes for us to rebuild, we didn't have a prayer with GSW in their prime as they are built.

we have the richest sports owner who runs things because he loves being a basketball team owner, not because he wants to make money. Steve ballmer knows he isn' gonna make money on this franchise. he wants to win.

we now have the logo. enough said.

if you feel that we are the "same old clippers", well, I am sorry but I don't share the sentiment. I lived through the true dark days, from Danny Manning/Ron Harper/Mark Jackson/ Kenny Norman/ Benoit Benjamin/Gray Grant/Stanley Roberts and later Loy Vought and Eric Piakowski days. I can live through this and actually enjoy it. if you can't, my apologies.

It doesn't matter what they do, but I was specifically talking about their mentality towards winning.

GSW was(and is) far from invincible. I thought they could have been taken with LeBron joining the team next year, like what was supposed to happen. It sure was more realistic and feasible than whatever other paths to contention await in the draft or free agency in the near future

The lottery can happen to any team, but it's something you only really wanna go through maybe once(if only to say you've been there and it built character), and ideally as few times as possible; certainly not as many times as the Clippers have been in the past. It's not some kind of nostalgia you want to relive for old times' sake, at least not for me.

Nice to know that the owner has resources, but it hasn't shown on the court so far. If anything, the biggest thing this ownership has been known for is losing their superstar for pennies on the dollar(so far).

[nickhx2]

complaining that the owner's resources haven't borne fruit yet is one of the most absurd and shortsighted things i've heard of

and there has been some pretty silly stuff going on today

[wassuphomeboy]

Everything always seems go against us. It isn't supposed to be this difficult

[wassuphomeboy]

complaining that the owner's resources haven't borne fruit yet is one of the most absurd and shortsighted things i've heard of

and there has been some pretty silly stuff going on today

I'm sure he signed Jerry West expecting CP3 to leave, amirite ? If he really knew what he was doing, CP3 wouldn't have wanted to leave. He's like a wealthy absent father that didn't spend time with his kids only to come back and find out one of them's pregnant and the other one's in rehab.

[thanumba2clippersfan]

As the owner Steve Ballmer could have shot down the trade if he wanted to. I'm sure Chris told the team he was moving on. Trading him for something is a lot better than letting him walk. Our team has more flexibility and more assets. We can now make other trades if we so choose. If Chris would have just signed with the Rockets we would have had little cap space to make other moves. We would then have to flip Blake or DJ for assets and that's no guarantee. Same old Clippers would have been staying the course with little chance of getting better.

[MartinToVaught]

The "same old Clippers" would have given CP3 the Pujols-esque contract he was asking for and then regretted it instantly. Just like they did with Baron Davis.

[MartinToVaught]

Then stop being a fan. Just from the title of your post I can tell already you weren't a Clipper fan before CP3 like 95% of us.

I was, which is EXACTLY why I don't want to go back. We've seen the same story before, maybe one time too many for myself.

People seem way too comfortable with going back to the lottery and rebuilding, because that's how it was for the majority of this team's history and it's what people are used to. I really don't need to remind everyone of how well that worked out in the end.

False hope is easy to hold on to, because it's easy to be tempted by the promise of tomorrow instead of the cold, concrete realities of today.

This is a results business

I love being lectured on "false hope" by someone who's acting like LeBron's signature was already on the dotted line for 2018. You can spin it however you want, but keeping this treadmill team together and hoping for dumb luck in the playoffs and/or a miracle bailout signing in free agency is the definition of "false hope." That has been the plan for years ever since Doc squandered all our assets, and it never worked out for us. Smart fans realized years ago that this team was never getting past the second round of the playoffs. The writing was on the wall after the meltdown against Houston a few years ago. Now it's finally time to move on.

You are correct that this is a results business. And the results of the CP3 era were historically pathetic:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-teams-have-done-less-with-more-than-the-clippers/

In one breath, you claim that it's time to start demanding success like Laker fans. In the next breath, you criticize the Clippers and the fanbase for no longer being satisfied with the fake "success" of first- and second-round exits. You do see the contradiction here, right?

[wassuphomeboy]

Then stop being a fan. Just from the title of your post I can tell already you weren't a Clipper fan before CP3 like 95% of us.

I was, which is EXACTLY why I don't want to go back. We've seen the same story before, maybe one time too many for myself.

People seem way too comfortable with going back to the lottery and rebuilding, because that's how it was for the majority of this team's history and it's what people are used to. I really don't need to remind everyone of how well that worked out in the end.

False hope is easy to hold on to, because it's easy to be tempted by the promise of tomorrow instead of the cold, concrete realities of today.

This is a results business

I love being lectured on "false hope" by someone who's acting like LeBron's signature was already on the dotted line for 2018. You can spin it however you want, but keeping this treadmill team together and hoping for dumb luck in the playoffs and/or a miracle bailout signing in free agency is the definition of "false hope." That has been the plan for years ever since Doc squandered all our assets, and it never worked out for us. Smart fans realized years ago that this team was never getting past the second round of the playoffs. The writing was on the wall after the meltdown against Houston a few years ago. Now it's finally time to move on.

You are correct that this is a results business. And the results of the CP3 era were historically pathetic:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-teams-have-done-less-with-more-than-the-clippers/

In one breath, you claim that it's time to start demanding success like Laker fans. In the next breath, you criticize the Clippers and the fanbase for no longer being satisfied with the fake "success" of first- and second-round exits. You do see the contradiction here, right?

LOL @ comparing one of the best PG's of all time to Baron Davis, who didn't make the playoffs or an all star team ONCE in his time with the Clippers.

What was REALLY historically pathetic WAS THE CLIPPERS RECORD BEFORE CP3 CAME.



All change isn't necessarily good in of itself; sometimes change can actually be both terrible and unnecessary.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on being a treadmill team; I thought this team was a lot closer to contending than most. I certainly wasn't going to give up a team with three All-Stars and potential to attract more in the future; that's called knowing your worth. Plus, now it seems like they will be stuck in purgatory, probably maxing out at a low playoff seed but not completely bottoming out like the Sixers, thereby having no chance to collect assets.

I do agree about Doc and now know he needed to go yesterday. Hopefully they can agree on a buyout or something.

Now that we've thrown out the baby with the bath water and cut off our noses to spite our face, all I'm going to say is this rebuild BETTER work out and it better work out soon, unlike the last couple of everytimes.

[MartinToVaught]

LOL @ comparing one of the best PG's of all time to Baron Davis, who didn't make the playoffs or an all star team ONCE in his time with the Clippers.

I was comparing the contracts, not the players. Giving Baron Davis $65 million was outrageous. The prospect of paying $45 million to a 37-year-old Chris Paul was even worse.

What was REALLY historically pathetic WAS THE CLIPPERS RECORD BEFORE CP3 CAME.

The CP3 era was historically pathetic in a different way. Let's not pretend that just making the playoffs is some huge accomplishment when half of the NBA makes them every year. CP3 didn't take us any further than Sam and EB did, despite playing on far more talented teams.

All change isn't necessarily good in of itself; sometimes change can actually be both terrible and unnecessary.

CP3 wanted out. So guess what? That meant change was necessary.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on being a treadmill team; I thought this team was a lot closer to contending than most.

CP3 clearly didn't agree with you on that.

I certainly wasn't going to give up a team with three All-Stars and potential to attract more in the future; that's called knowing your worth.

And how exactly were we going to attract more players? We had no cap space, no picks, no trade assets. Durant turned us down, and while it's possible LeBron could have signed here in 2018, it was far from a guarantee. At what point would you have been willing to admit that this team is going nowhere? How many more first-round exits and quiet offseasons did you need to see? How many more teams needed to pass us by in the West?

[wassuphomeboy]

Fairly obvious the only reason CP3 left(or at least the main reason) was that the team wouldn't give him the extra 5th year on the contract. This could have easily been avoided if we gave him the 5th year.

$45 million is a ton, but it's not as much as it used to be with the cap most likely going up. I also personally thought $45 million was a bit much for CP3, but it's the going price for a superstar, and even for plenty of those not considered one. Considering John Stockton led a team to the finals at age 35 and Steve Nash led a team to the conference finals at age 36, I wouldn't be so quick to automatically assume CP3 wouldn't produce anymore at that age, especially with his steady game and new medical advances. Say what you will about CP3's personality and leadership skills, but his professionalism can't be denied.

More importantly, the team might still be better off having a 37 year old CP3(NOT NECESSARILY AS A FIRST OPTION) instead of whatever the **** else we're gonna get from the draft and free agency(I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure).

Curious how you don't mention any possible downsides to the rebuild, as if there aren't any.

Oh well, typical self-destructive move fueled by unwarranted outside criticism and public opinion, much of it drummed up by journalists who probably have a vested interest to seeing this team fail.

Even bigger shame our own people can't tell the difference who's on our side and who's not.

Maybe 10 years from now when our team is stuck in another endless loop of 30-52 seasons (I'm not rooting for this outcome, but it's what's going to happen if people don't wake up) will people finally learn to appreciate and give due credit, or maybe not.

Can't change fate. It is what it is.

[nickhx2]

ITT: someone who thinks winning in sports should be easy and if you're not it's destiny

now i get it

[wassuphomeboy]

It's also not supposed to be this difficult and at times unnecessarily self destructive

[Clemenza]

Awful trade and no way to positively spin this one for me really. This really gets old. I really thought it was going to be different this time.

Still can't believe how they managed to screw up a superstar playing in THE premier destination for free agents, who was close friends with the BEST player in the NBA, who not only had an offseason home in said destination but also made open allusions to teaming up in the future

People act like rebuilding automatically means things will eventually get better (Timberwolves still haven't even made the playoffs ONCE since they traded KG TEN years ago, let alone contend)

God knows when the next chance to contend is going to come along

And the worst part is, all the armchair critics who know next to nothing about basketball get to say "I told you so" again

I really think we need to completely trash the second-place mentality and be just as demanding, if not more so, as Lakers fans for success. It may cost us some likability points but I'm over that at this point

I just hope we don't end up like the Cubs

Don't be so afraid of change.. This Clippers team was literally done after the Houston choke two years ago. It was time for change and you couldn't pay CP3 $200 million supermax deal. What if we still don't beat the Warriors over the next three years and still owe CP3 $40 million plus in year 4 and $40+ million in year five? This was a good trade imo. Houston just sold off their core to get Paul. He should've went to San Antonio. Lets just see what Jerry West has in store. GS probably has the next two championships yet again barring a major injury so lets retool and get this sh*t right. It would help ten fold if we got rid of Doc asap.

-you sound like a Laker fan with that title.. You should change it

[wassuphomeboy]

Awful trade and no way to positively spin this one for me really. This really gets old. I really thought it was going to be different this time.

Still can't believe how they managed to screw up a superstar playing in THE premier destination for free agents, who was close friends with the BEST player in the NBA, who not only had an offseason home in said destination but also made open allusions to teaming up in the future

People act like rebuilding automatically means things will eventually get better (Timberwolves still haven't even made the playoffs ONCE since they traded KG TEN years ago, let alone contend)

God knows when the next chance to contend is going to come along

And the worst part is, all the armchair critics who know next to nothing about basketball get to say "I told you so" again

I really think we need to completely trash the second-place mentality and be just as demanding, if not more so, as Lakers fans for success. It may cost us some likability points but I'm over that at this point

I just hope we don't end up like the Cubs

Don't be so afraid of change.. This Clippers team was literally done after the Houston choke two years ago. It was time for change and you couldn't pay CP3 $200 million supermax deal. What if we still don't beat the Warriors over the next three years and still owe CP3 $40 million plus in year 4 and $40+ million in year five? This was a good trade imo. Houston just sold off their core to get Paul. He should've went to San Antonio. Lets just see what Jerry West has in store. GS probably has the next two championships yet again barring a major injury so lets retool and get this sh*t right. It would help ten fold if we got rid of Doc asap.

-you sound like a Laker fan with that title.. You should change it

It's a bit clickbait-y I agree, but I had to draw attention to this topic somehow. The fact that everyone seems to be brushing it off made it even more important for me to say something about it.

[MartinToVaught]

Fairly obvious the only reason CP3 left(or at least the main reason) was that the team wouldn't give him the extra 5th year on the contract. This could have easily been avoided if we gave him the 5th year.

It had nothing to do with the 5th year. The Rockets, especially Harden, had been tampering with CP3 all last season. He was intent on leaving and playing with Harden.

$45 million is a ton, but it's not as much as it used to be with the cap most likely going up. I also personally thought $45 million was a bit much for CP3, but it's the going price for a superstar, and even for plenty of those not considered one. Considering John Stockton led a team to the finals at age 35 and Steve Nash led a team to the conference finals at age 36, I wouldn't be so quick to automatically assume CP3 wouldn't produce anymore at that age, especially with his steady game and new medical advances. Say what you will about CP3's personality and leadership skills, but his professionalism can't be denied.

CP3 is not Stockton or even Nash. He's not a playoff performer, and for as much flak as Blake gets for his injuries, CP3 has never been able to stay healthy either. $45 million for a 37-year-old 6'0" injury-prone PG is a disaster. It's the most untradeable contract in the league.

More importantly, the team might still be better off having a 37 year old CP3(NOT NECESSARILY AS A FIRST OPTION) instead of whatever the **** else we're gonna get from the draft and free agency(I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure).

Is that you, Doc? Sure sounds like it, judging from your insane bias towards aging veterans over young players.

Curious how you don't mention any possible downsides to the rebuild, as if there aren't any.

Of course there's possible downsides to the rebuild, as there are with pretty much everything else in life. But there are also upsides to the rebuild. There is no upside to bringing back the same old team that could never get it done for even more money.

[wassuphomeboy]

Fairly obvious the only reason CP3 left(or at least the main reason) was that the team wouldn't give him the extra 5th year on the contract. This could have easily been avoided if we gave him the 5th year.

It had nothing to do with the 5th year. The Rockets, especially Harden, had been tampering with CP3 all last season. He was intent on leaving and playing with Harden.

$45 million is a ton, but it's not as much as it used to be with the cap most likely going up. I also personally thought $45 million was a bit much for CP3, but it's the going price for a superstar, and even for plenty of those not considered one. Considering John Stockton led a team to the finals at age 35 and Steve Nash led a team to the conference finals at age 36, I wouldn't be so quick to automatically assume CP3 wouldn't produce anymore at that age, especially with his steady game and new medical advances. Say what you will about CP3's personality and leadership skills, but his professionalism can't be denied.

CP3 is not Stockton or even Nash. He's not a playoff performer, and for as much flak as Blake gets for his injuries, CP3 has never been able to stay healthy either. $45 million for a 37-year-old 6'0" injury-prone PG is a disaster. It's the most untradeable contract in the league.

More importantly, the team might still be better off having a 37 year old CP3(NOT NECESSARILY AS A FIRST OPTION) instead of whatever the **** else we're gonna get from the draft and free agency(I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure).

Is that you, Doc? Sure sounds like it, judging from your insane bias towards aging veterans over young players.

Curious how you don't mention any possible downsides to the rebuild, as if there aren't any.

Of course there's possible downsides to the rebuild, as there are with pretty much everything else in life. But there are also upsides to the rebuild. There is no upside to bringing back the same old team that could never get it done for even more money.

Considering CP3 was also considering the Spurs I'm not sure it was a foregone conclusion he was automatically leaving, tampering or not. Making the right moves for the future or at least positioning themselves to would have at least given them a chance. It was at least worth a try, and the fact that they couldn't HOLD ON TO THEIR OWN SUPERSTAR is really an indictment on the organization, and possibly could have a lingering impact on attracting future FAs down the road (see Lakers after Dwight or Chicago Bulls after MJ).

CP3's playoff advanced stats are far superior to Stockton and Nash actually, and IMO is a more complete player than both of them. Nash couldn't play defense (and was actually considered injury-prone until his 30s but not after, oddly) and Stockton wasn't a true scorer. A lot of team success goes beyond what one individual can do and is dictated by circumstance.

Doc likes veterans but CP3 is a superstar. Veteran superstars are still superstars, or at least star players.

Rebuilds need a concrete plan, not an endless loop of kicking the can down the road. That's how the "same old Clippers" started, and it's how things could turn out to be again if things don't change. I will be cautiously optimistic but that's really the best I can do right now.