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Great listen. Went in-depth on a lot of things. Said LAC was committed to give CP the full max, etc.

Says he may not have anticipated that GM and coach are completely separate jobs when he took over.

I dont think we'll ever see a coach/GM combo again.

Said getting over the hump was more of our thought process than the long term in his first few years.


Says there is a greater premium on draft picks in our org now.
Smfh. Wish we applied that to the Rocket's pick.


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Suggestion of a "field-housy" type of arena there?




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Quake Griffin wrote:Says he may not have anticipated that GM and coach are completely separate jobs when he took over.

I dont think we'll ever see a coach/GM combo again.

Said getting over the hump was more of our thought process than the long term in his first few years.


Says there is a greater premium on draft picks in our org now.
Smfh. Wish we applied that to the Rocket's pick.

Let's see what it turns into. Grizz already sent the Jeff Green pick out in return for 2 second-rounders. The Bucks shipped out the Jared Dudley pick [along with Norman Powell!] for the immortal Greivis Vasquez, last spotted on a tramp steamer to the Tasmanian League.

Hey, the Big 3 window closed. It was a kamikaze mission [SPLAT!] but we had no choice. This year, even if CP stayed we had to let JJ go, and we'd be worse while the rest of the West got stronger, and that's not even counting GSW, who make the whole thing moot anyway.

So yeah, Ballmer's "over the hump" learning the NBA business from the inside out. Doc's greatest accomplishment as Grand Poobah was not putting us into some stupid decade-long hole like the Nets are in, proved by the fact he had the good sense to lottery-protect those 1st-rounders he dealt away, in case both CP and Blake left and we returned to our historically pathetic Clipper selves.


Doc did not give away the farm. He didn't even endanger it.

We are no longer even a longshot contender for the title. That's the fact. And now that we have Gallo--a risky acquisition but who may be the difference between making the playoffs and not, the difference between staying ahead of the Lakers or joining them as the less-interesting team in Lotteryville--Ballmer has to sell the future. Indeed, the new arena is 4 years away at best.

And I'd like to still have the pick but I'm willing to face the possibility that to get Gallo we just gave away the next Brice Johnson or Larry Nance, Jr. More likely the next R.J. Hunter, though.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17874804/boston-celtics-waive-former-first-round-pick-rj-hunter

I dont care what those two franchises did with the picks.

We have our own scouts and talent evaluators.


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Quake Griffin wrote:I dont care what those two franchises did with the picks.

We have our own scouts and talent evaluators.


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Oh, I think it shows what the league thinks of late-20s picks. Not only what the Grizz and Bucks got back, but what the league as a whole was willing to offer back.

Market value was established.


We have our own scouts and talent evaluators.


Ah. Glad you brought that up. It's certainly tempting to give Jerry West all the credit for this off-season, but Doc replaced the entire scouting staff in September 2016. This is their off-season too.

It's a player's league and this was CP's team. No longer. We gotta update the paradigm and give the new one at least a chance.

Mr. Quake, Neddy said you and he and Ramna run things around here, so I hope we can be friends. I'm new but Clipper Nation since Day One 1984.

Great. Teams that dont win anything dont value late 20s picks. We certainly fit that bill.

The Spurs value those picks.
The Warriors continue to buy back into the 2nd round.

Follow the Spurs and Warriors or Bucks and Grizzlies?

Tough one.


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Quake Griffin wrote:Great. Teams that dont win anything dont value late 20s picks. We certainly fit that bill.

The Spurs value those picks.
The Warriors continue to buy back into the 2nd round.

Follow the Spurs and Warriors or Bucks and Grizzlies?

Tough one.

Yah, I guess Neddy was right--you and Ramna do run this place. Pleased to meetcha, Mr. Quake. I hope we can be friends. Let's chat it out:

I know the Spurs legend and they drafted George Hill in 2008, and Goran Dragic, although he never played a day in a Spurs uni.

Since then, the Spurs draft legend is seriously draggin'. No All-Stars in 10 years. If a starter [DeJuan Blair? Cory Joseph?], marginal.

Floor's yours.


Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2017 NBA 1 29 Derrick White University of Colorado
2017 NBA 2 59 Jaron Blossomgame Clemson University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2016 NBA 1 29 Dejounte Murray University of Washington 38 322 130 42 48 .431 .391 .700 8.5 3.4 1.1 1.3 0.0 .004 -4.8 -0.2
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2015 NBA 1 26 Nikola Milutinov
2015 NBA 2 55 Cady Lalanne University of Massachusetts Amherst
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2014 NBA 1 30 Kyle Anderson University of California, Los Angeles 183 2623 670 524 242 .442 .341 .753 14.3 3.7 2.9 1.3 6.5 .119 1.1 2.1
2014 NBA 2 58 Jordan McRae University of Tennessee 59 579 260 61 44 .404 .384 .774 9.8 4.4 1.0 0.7 0.5 .043 -5.7 -0.5
2014 NBA 2 60 Cory Jefferson Baylor University 58 581 205 161 16 .444 .125 .583 10.0 3.5 2.8 0.3 0.9 .071 -4.6 -0.4
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2013 NBA 1 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2013 NBA 2 58 Deshaun Thomas Ohio State University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2012 NBA 2 59 Marcus Denmon University of Missouri
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2011 NBA 1 29 Cory Joseph University of Texas at Austin 364 7083 2479 821 904 .458 .317 .768 19.5 6.8 2.3 2.5 15.2 .103 -0.5 2.7
2011 NBA 2 59 Adam Hanga
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2010 NBA 1 20 James Anderson Oklahoma State University 247 4320 1422 560 291 .411 .321 .755 17.5 5.8 2.3 1.2 3.3 .037 -2.8 -0.9
2010 NBA 2 49 Ryan Richards
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2009 NBA 2 37 DeJuan Blair University of Pittsburgh 424 7054 2865 2153 349 .524 .000 .608 16.6 6.8 5.1 0.8 19.0 .129 0.4 4.2
2009 NBA 2 51 Jack McClinton University of Miami
2009 NBA 2 53 Nando De Colo 119 1414 453 211 203 .429 .363 .835 11.9 3.8 1.8 1.7 2.4 .081 -0.8 0.4

Ballmer is great, very open, gives a lot of good insight. Obviously makes some sad because if kills their whole narrative of "the team didn't want to bring back Paul or pay him the 5 year contract", or our fellow Clippers fan who was telling us that the Clippers wanted to "get rid of Chris Paul's ball hogging" or something like that and tagging it on to Jerry West though West had previously said Paul was one of his favorite players in the league.

One of the most important things is having a great owner. Definitely good that Ballmer is also learning, and hopefully moving forward there's no more dual coach/GM, it's just not a reasonable way to set up a front office. I like his honesty about how they used their assets and how they had too short term a view in some of the moves.

esqtvd wrote:

Quake Griffin wrote:Great. Teams that dont win anything dont value late 20s picks. We certainly fit that bill.

The Spurs value those picks.
The Warriors continue to buy back into the 2nd round.

Follow the Spurs and Warriors or Bucks and Grizzlies?

Tough one.

Yah, I guess Neddy was right--you and Ramna do run this place. Pleased to meetcha, Mr. Quake. I hope we can be friends. Let's chat it out:

I know the Spurs legend and they drafted George Hill in 2008, and Goran Dragic, although he never played a day in a Spurs uni.

Since then, the Spurs draft legend is seriously draggin'. No All-Stars in 10 years. If a starter [DeJuan Blair? Cory Joseph?], marginal.

Floor's yours.


Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2017 NBA 1 29 Derrick White University of Colorado
2017 NBA 2 59 Jaron Blossomgame Clemson University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2016 NBA 1 29 Dejounte Murray University of Washington 38 322 130 42 48 .431 .391 .700 8.5 3.4 1.1 1.3 0.0 .004 -4.8 -0.2
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2015 NBA 1 26 Nikola Milutinov
2015 NBA 2 55 Cady Lalanne University of Massachusetts Amherst
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2014 NBA 1 30 Kyle Anderson University of California, Los Angeles 183 2623 670 524 242 .442 .341 .753 14.3 3.7 2.9 1.3 6.5 .119 1.1 2.1
2014 NBA 2 58 Jordan McRae University of Tennessee 59 579 260 61 44 .404 .384 .774 9.8 4.4 1.0 0.7 0.5 .043 -5.7 -0.5
2014 NBA 2 60 Cory Jefferson Baylor University 58 581 205 161 16 .444 .125 .583 10.0 3.5 2.8 0.3 0.9 .071 -4.6 -0.4
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2013 NBA 1 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2013 NBA 2 58 Deshaun Thomas Ohio State University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2012 NBA 2 59 Marcus Denmon University of Missouri
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2011 NBA 1 29 Cory Joseph University of Texas at Austin 364 7083 2479 821 904 .458 .317 .768 19.5 6.8 2.3 2.5 15.2 .103 -0.5 2.7
2011 NBA 2 59 Adam Hanga
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2010 NBA 1 20 James Anderson Oklahoma State University 247 4320 1422 560 291 .411 .321 .755 17.5 5.8 2.3 1.2 3.3 .037 -2.8 -0.9
2010 NBA 2 49 Ryan Richards
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2009 NBA 2 37 DeJuan Blair University of Pittsburgh 424 7054 2865 2153 349 .524 .000 .608 16.6 6.8 5.1 0.8 19.0 .129 0.4 4.2
2009 NBA 2 51 Jack McClinton University of Miami
2009 NBA 2 53 Nando De Colo 119 1414 453 211 203 .429 .363 .835 11.9 3.8 1.8 1.7 2.4 .081 -0.8 0.4

Interesting. Avoiding the Warriors draft legend to copy and paste something you've posted before like it is profound. Also weird you put a random 10 year time constraint on their draft history that's only purpose is to suit your point of view.

Few things wrong with your premise:
1) Who said the Spurs drafted All Stars? Who said the importance of picks in the 20s was their high probability of turning out to be all stars?

You or me?

2) If any of our picks this year turn out to be Corey Joseph level, that's a positive for our organization....hell any NBA organization. Not sure laughing off Corey Joseph is smart or persuasive in any regard.

3) George Hill turned into a much higher 1st round pick which ended up being Kawhi Leonard (another great draft and development story). While I know Kawhi's not a pick in the 20s, the Hill pick's legend goes much further than just whether or not he was an all star. He's a great story from picking late.

4) The Spurs value development overall and find ways to do it that are akin/congruent/similar to late 1st round picks or 2nd round picks. So over 10 years, Splitter, George Hill (turns into Kawhi), Blair, Corey Joseph, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Jonathan Simmons etc. etc.

^^^
Funny that the team that operates like that always had pieces around their core, won a recent ring, and didnt go into every offseason crossing its fingers and hoping someone worthwhile would take a paycut to take the MLE.

Undoubtedly, you will respond by saying "ahh ahh ahhh, they weren't found in the draft, so my list wins the day." Go ahead. You can intentionally miss my point just to argue about who the Spurs have drafted since George Hill....or you can understand that I want the Clippers to be at the forefront of development, drafting, finding gems from the D-League, and never find themselves trapped and unable to get better again.



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esqtvd wrote:

Quake Griffin wrote:Great. Teams that dont win anything dont value late 20s picks. We certainly fit that bill.

The Spurs value those picks.
The Warriors continue to buy back into the 2nd round.

Follow the Spurs and Warriors or Bucks and Grizzlies?

Tough one.

Yah, I guess Neddy was right--you and Ramna do run this place. Pleased to meetcha, Mr. Quake. I hope we can be friends. Let's chat it out:

I know the Spurs legend and they drafted George Hill in 2008, and Goran Dragic, although he never played a day in a Spurs uni.

Since then, the Spurs draft legend is seriously draggin'. No All-Stars in 10 years. If a starter [DeJuan Blair? Cory Joseph?], marginal.

Floor's yours.


Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2017 NBA 1 29 Derrick White University of Colorado
2017 NBA 2 59 Jaron Blossomgame Clemson University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2016 NBA 1 29 Dejounte Murray University of Washington 38 322 130 42 48 .431 .391 .700 8.5 3.4 1.1 1.3 0.0 .004 -4.8 -0.2
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2015 NBA 1 26 Nikola Milutinov
2015 NBA 2 55 Cady Lalanne University of Massachusetts Amherst
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2014 NBA 1 30 Kyle Anderson University of California, Los Angeles 183 2623 670 524 242 .442 .341 .753 14.3 3.7 2.9 1.3 6.5 .119 1.1 2.1
2014 NBA 2 58 Jordan McRae University of Tennessee 59 579 260 61 44 .404 .384 .774 9.8 4.4 1.0 0.7 0.5 .043 -5.7 -0.5
2014 NBA 2 60 Cory Jefferson Baylor University 58 581 205 161 16 .444 .125 .583 10.0 3.5 2.8 0.3 0.9 .071 -4.6 -0.4
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2013 NBA 1 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2013 NBA 2 58 Deshaun Thomas Ohio State University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2012 NBA 2 59 Marcus Denmon University of Missouri
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2011 NBA 1 29 Cory Joseph University of Texas at Austin 364 7083 2479 821 904 .458 .317 .768 19.5 6.8 2.3 2.5 15.2 .103 -0.5 2.7
2011 NBA 2 59 Adam Hanga
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2010 NBA 1 20 James Anderson Oklahoma State University 247 4320 1422 560 291 .411 .321 .755 17.5 5.8 2.3 1.2 3.3 .037 -2.8 -0.9
2010 NBA 2 49 Ryan Richards
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2009 NBA 2 37 DeJuan Blair University of Pittsburgh 424 7054 2865 2153 349 .524 .000 .608 16.6 6.8 5.1 0.8 19.0 .129 0.4 4.2
2009 NBA 2 51 Jack McClinton University of Miami
2009 NBA 2 53 Nando De Colo 119 1414 453 211 203 .429 .363 .835 11.9 3.8 1.8 1.7 2.4 .081 -0.8 0.4

Interesting. Avoiding the Warriors draft legend to copy and paste something you've posted before like it is profound. Also weird you put a random 10 year time constraint on their draft history that's only purpose is to suit your point of view.

Few things wrong with your premise:
1) Who said the Spurs drafted All Stars? Who said the importance of picks in the 20s was their high probability of turning out to be all stars?

You or me?

2) If any of our picks this year turn out to be Corey Joseph level, that's a positive for our organization....hell any NBA organization. Not sure laughing off Corey Joseph is smart or persuasive in any regard.

3) George Hill turned into a much higher 1st round pick which ended up being Kawhi Leonard (another great draft and development story). While I know Kawhi's not a pick in the 20s, the Hill pick's legend goes much further than just whether or not he was an all star. He's a great story from picking late.

4) The Spurs value development overall and find ways to do it that are akin/congruent/similar to late 1st round picks or 2nd round picks. So over 10 years, Splitter, George Hill (turns into Kawhi), Blair, Corey Joseph, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Jonathan Simmons etc. etc.

^^^
Funny that the team that operates like that always had pieces around their core, won a recent ring, and didnt go into every offseason crossing its fingers and hoping someone worthwhile would take a paycut to take the MLE.

Undoubtedly, you will respond by saying "ahh ahh ahhh, they weren't found in the draft, so my list wins the day." Go ahead. You can intentionally miss my point just to argue about who the Spurs have drafted since George Hill....or you can understand that I want the Clippers to be at the forefront of development, drafting, finding gems from the D-League, and never find themselves trapped and unable to get better again.



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esqtvd wrote:
Yah, I guess Neddy was right--you and Ramna do run this place.

what?
this guy...

uh, tl;dr bro

I understand you and Ramna and Neddy control the board around here, no disrespect intended

was just saying the Spurs haven't drafted **** in 10 years and you have the floor to disprove it

Spurs were ahead of the curve 10 years ago


Tiago [2007]
Tony Parker[2001]
Manu Ginobili [1999]

1999, my brother
1999

but ever since



Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2017 NBA 1 29 Derrick White University of Colorado
2017 NBA 2 59 Jaron Blossomgame Clemson University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2016 NBA 1 29 Dejounte Murray University of Washington 38 322 130 42 48 .431 .391 .700 8.5 3.4 1.1 1.3 0.0 .004 -4.8 -0.2
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2015 NBA 1 26 Nikola Milutinov
2015 NBA 2 55 Cady Lalanne University of Massachusetts Amherst
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2014 NBA 1 30 Kyle Anderson University of California, Los Angeles 183 2623 670 524 242 .442 .341 .753 14.3 3.7 2.9 1.3 6.5 .119 1.1 2.1
2014 NBA 2 58 Jordan McRae University of Tennessee 59 579 260 61 44 .404 .384 .774 9.8 4.4 1.0 0.7 0.5 .043 -5.7 -0.5
2014 NBA 2 60 Cory Jefferson Baylor University 58 581 205 161 16 .444 .125 .583 10.0 3.5 2.8 0.3 0.9 .071 -4.6 -0.4
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2013 NBA 1 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2013 NBA 2 58 Deshaun Thomas Ohio State University
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2012 NBA 2 59 Marcus Denmon University of Missouri
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2011 NBA 1 29 Cory Joseph University of Texas at Austin 364 7083 2479 821 904 .458 .317 .768 19.5 6.8 2.3 2.5 15.2 .103 -0.5 2.7
2011 NBA 2 59 Adam Hanga
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2010 NBA 1 20 James Anderson Oklahoma State University 247 4320 1422 560 291 .411 .321 .755 17.5 5.8 2.3 1.2 3.3 .037 -2.8 -0.9
2010 NBA 2 49 Ryan Richards
Year Lg Rd Pk Player College G MP PTS TRB AST FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST WS WS/48 BPM VORP
2009 NBA 2 37 DeJuan Blair University of Pittsburgh 424 7054 2865 2153 349 .524 .000 .608 16.6 6.8 5.1 0.8 19.0 .129 0.4 4.2
2009 NBA 2 51 Jack McClinton University of Miami
2009 NBA 2 53 Nando De Colo 119 1414 453 211 203 .429 .363 .835 11.9 3.8 1.8 1.7 2.4 .081 -0.8 0.4

esqtvd wrote:I understand you and Ramna and Neddy control the board around here, no disrespect intended

how are we "controlling" the board?

and its not just about "drafting" with the picks you are given, but using the picks, including trading, to make something out it that matters. I thought Quake was pretty clear on that. Doc has failed on that quite miserably and even big ol' Steve admits to it.

I'm so glad this man is our team's owner.

Neddy wrote:and its not just about "drafting" with the picks you are given, but using the picks, including trading, to make something out it that matters. I thought Quake was pretty clear on that. Doc has failed on that quite miserably and even big ol' Steve admits to it.

Guy brags about using a pick to get Gallo but can't see that the pick we unnecessarily sent the Bucks could be used in a number of ways this offseason....all of them better than what it was used for - to ship out Dudley (let's not even talk how Doc dropped the ball with him to begin with).

Hey ho!
One less way to get better is the formula great franchises use.


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Akklaim1 wrote:I'm so glad this man is our team's owner.

Yep.

Love that he was open about his missteps and admits he's learning. I am fine with him learning. I exoected that to come with the territory.



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Quake Griffin wrote:

Neddy wrote:and its not just about "drafting" with the picks you are given, but using the picks, including trading, to make something out it that matters. I thought Quake was pretty clear on that. Doc has failed on that quite miserably and even big ol' Steve admits to it.

Guy brags about using a pick to get Gallo but can't see that the pick we unnecessarily sent the Bucks could be used in a number of ways this offseason....all of them better than what it was used for - to ship out Dudley (let's not even talk how Doc dropped the ball with him to begin with).

Hey ho!
One less way to get better is the formula great franchises use.

So, I'm on record sh*tting all over the Dudley trade as one of the worst trades of the recent past in the whole league. But if you're gonna be willing to forgive Ballmer for his past missteps, how are you so unforgiving with Wohl/Doc for their newbie mistake of going over the hard cap because of Dudley's possible playoff bonus, and having to spend a pick in dumping him? Is it just a case of apologizing vs trying to save face? Or just going with the flow when it comes to good guy/bad guy?

And I haven't been following the whole conversation, but getting Gallinari for a 25-30th pick is a steal any way you look at it. Well, a steal in the sense that when you add a high level FA it's always a steal value-wise, even if you pay a pick. I can get with the sentiment of "draft picks are valuable"/"building through the draft is more easily sustainable". But the value of a late 1st pick and a borderline allstar in his prime is so far away that I find it silly to think about it twice.

QRich3 wrote:

Quake Griffin wrote:

Neddy wrote:and its not just about "drafting" with the picks you are given, but using the picks, including trading, to make something out it that matters. I thought Quake was pretty clear on that. Doc has failed on that quite miserably and even big ol' Steve admits to it.

Guy brags about using a pick to get Gallo but can't see that the pick we unnecessarily sent the Bucks could be used in a number of ways this offseason....all of them better than what it was used for - to ship out Dudley (let's not even talk how Doc dropped the ball with him to begin with).

Hey ho!
One less way to get better is the formula great franchises use.

So, I'm on record sh*tting all over the Dudley trade as one of the worst trades of the recent past in the whole league. But if you're gonna be willing to forgive Ballmer for his past missteps, how are you so unforgiving with Wohl/Doc for their newbie mistake of going over the hard cap because of Dudley's possible playoff bonus, and having to spend a pick in dumping him? Is it just a case of apologizing vs trying to save face? Or just going with the flow when it comes to good guy/bad guy?

And I haven't been following the whole conversation, but getting Gallinari for a 25-30th pick is a steal any way you look at it. Well, a steal in the sense that when you add a high level FA it's always a steal value-wise, even if you pay a pick. I can get with the sentiment of "draft picks are valuable"/"building through the draft is more easily sustainable". But the value of a late 1st pick and a borderline allstar in his prime is so far away that I find it silly to think about it twice.

I'm not Ranma or MTV.

I forgive Doc as a GM in that his missteps are because he was in over his head. It doesn't mean I'm willing to forget and let him call the shots anymore. I've been on the record multiple times saying that I think he is a good coach and I don't mind him staying on as coach if he's not in a GM role. Great. Lawrence Frank is calling the shots and has been. (I think we can do better but fine). Jerry West is in the fold. I like the situation we have as of right now.


Have I asked that Doc be fired? Sure. I think it is awkward culturally to strip someone of power and have them in a lesser role, particularly in Doc's case where the Clipper culture has turned somewhat sour. But hey, Budenholzer is stepping down and just being a coach. Cultures can change. I can see a potential turn around happening since we are moving on and going in a new direction.

Again, I am fine with where we are.


If you read the thread that questions Doc's work ethic, you'd see that while I have wanted to move on from Doc, I'm not interested in the smear campaign and the piling on the media is trying to do this offseason. I don't think Doc deserves it.

Edit:
I'm not against trading picks but I value them, development, and having assets that keep us flexible to make improvements to the team when need be. The Bucks pick could have been used to draft talent or to make a deal this offseason. We lost a chance to get better.
I'm not of the school of thought that we should nix the Gallo deal in order to keep that pick. I just wish we could have found a way to keep it in getting him.