What are your guys thoughts on Austin Rivers?

[Galloisdaman]

Guy was a pretty high pick but kind of blah results so far.

Is he a small SG? Or a PG?

How is his ball handling?

Is there a issue playing for his dad?

I do not usually like guards who cant hit free throws well. Should I be optimistic?

[janmagn]

He is with us just because his dad decides on the personnel

Lähetetty minun LG-H440n laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[nickhx2]

pg sized guy who's a shooting guard. can handle the ball some and gets to the hoop fairly easily, and is a better finisher than he seems to be. plus defender but he has his weird moments.

used to be mediocre shooter and has worked hard to become better. he's actually quite alright shooting the ball now. has gotten better pretty much every year. good value for his contract, especially for the clippers because we have virtually no young assets. kind of cocky but it's never caused problems.

beyond that he's the most polarizing player on realgm, besides lebron probably. you even have fans of the team making bashing threads because they can't stand him or can't stand the idea he might actually turn out to be a decent player.

btw, you can pretty much tell who has hater blood running through their veins. just say "austin rivers" three times in a mirror and these guys show up out of the woodwork.


i look forward to him getting improving this season and watching gb turn itself over because they can't fathom that a young player in this league started off bad and worked hard to get better. t/t board will throw up all over itself as well because they will have no idea how to value a player they can't see as anything but trash.

[nickhx2]

also i don't really even like him, i think he's kind of annoying

[nickhx2]

also if you say "nepotism" 3 times in a mirror half these guys will also show up looking for something to hate on

ok sorry last one i'm done i swear

[MartinToVaught]

He's a net-negative player who has become coddled by most of our fans in response to how widely disliked he is. I know people don't want to hear it, but if his name was Austin Smith instead of Austin Rivers, he'd be playing in the Chinese league right now.

The improvements he's made (which have been vastly overstated by the pro-Austin crowd, mind you) are the direct result of him being the coach's son and getting a million chances that Doc will never give to any other young player unless there are no alternatives. Have people already forgotten his Game 7 performance against the Jazz? 4-12 shooting, more turnovers than assists. Still played 38 minutes because of course he did.

[Galloisdaman]

Most fan bases do not like their coaches decisions so I'm not shocked by the feelings regarding Doc Rivers.

I hope Austin can step up for the team this season.

Was there ever any thought to keeping JR Reddick? He seemed to have improved in the last 4-5 years.

[nickhx2]

i think there was but at a certain point it became pretty clear that keeping all of jordan, blake, paul, and redick would be ridiculously expensive because of tax penalties. we might have tried to keep jj, but once paul was gone that was it for jj as well. it certainly didn't help that joe ingles ruined him on both ends in the playoffs.

[Forte IV]

He gets better every year. People who worship advanced stats hate him even though advance stats are most of the time worthless mainly due to the fact they show players who are praised are either on par with him or are worse than him. Martin would hate on him even if he makes a game winner of game 7 of the NBA finals.

[esqtvd]

Even after drastic improvement over the past year and a half, Austin's advanced stats still stink, well ensconced in the bottom 1/3 of the league. You can't really argue with anyone who insists he blows donkeys.

But Austin was also an unsung hero last year, often playing out of position [33% of the time] because of injuries and the fact that JJ Redick can't play any other position except Austin's natural spot of SG, so it was Austin who had to bite the bullet.

Austin's stats as a starter, in 25 games, were


34.5 mpg
16.3 ppg
3.8 apg
2.9 rpg on

46% FG
42.4% 3-ptFG%


The jury's still out, as it is whenever a part-time player is asked to play full-time, but when not playing with one of the worst benches in the league, and even playing out of position, as a starter Austin got up to plus territory in +/-. 40% from distance and some enthusiastic D will replace JJ Redick quite comfortably.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01/splits/2017

[Ranma]

Most fan bases do not like their coaches decisions so I'm not shocked by the feelings regarding Doc Rivers.

I hope Austin can step up for the team this season.

Was there ever any thought to keeping JR Reddick? He seemed to have improved in the last 4-5 years.

Despite my attempts at and aims to be optimistic and positive, I can't ignore certain things and blindly wave the fan flag of myopia. Decades of Clippers fandom have certainly taken its toll on me and I try to avoid being a hypocrite when I call out other fans for wearing rose-colored glasses.

First, most teams don't have Gregg Popovich, Brad Stevens, Bill Belichick, or whomever else. We like coaches who follow through on their preachings with actual actions. I can tell you right now I'm loving my Dodgers' manager, Dave Roberts, a better "Doc" than the one coaching my Clippers. I'm liking my Rams' newcomer Sean McVay as head coach for his positivity, knowledge, and energy. I've already stated multiple times on different occasions that I think Glenn Rivers can coach and has brought some good things to the table, but he needs to give us something in terms of sustained productivity and benefits instead of empty words.

Second and for instance, I'm pretty sure I was the first person and one of the few people who stated that Doc Rivers was one of the few coaches who could get the most out of Austin Rivers, even though Coach K didn't. At the same time, I thought he was definitely over-rated as a draft prospect taken 10th overall in 2012.

I've +1'd both nickhx2 and Martin2Vaught because I share in most of their respective takes. Austin very likely would indeed be playing for China, Israel, or wherever else a la Jordan Farmar if it weren't for his dad trading for him. The dude was on the verge of being out of the league and only got a second chance because we dealt Reggie Bullock for him after Doc diminished Bullock's value to practically nothing before trading him. That was how much Austin Rivers was worth at the time.

Junior Rivers, as I like to call him, is a combo guard because he lacks consistency in his playmaking to be a good point guard as well as shooting and scoring to be a good shooting guard. He tends to be streaky in having big games every now and then but then goes on to disappear and taking after Jamal Crawford with the conscious-free shot-chucking. For a coach's son, he shows a remarkable lack of fundamentals whether it's not boxing out or shooting poorly from the free-throw line, especially for a guard.

He certainly has a self-inflated ego but that is what drives him to compete. It hurts when his fearless shot-taking happens when he's cold but it also gives him a chip on his shoulder to be a dogged defender capable of even manning up some small forwards. He's also put up gutty performances like that bloodied episode in Game 6 against the Blazers in the 2016 playoffs.

He has certainly improved but I can't say that he's trustworthy. Personally, I still would prefer to trade him but he can be useful if used in the right circumstances. His dad's utilization of him is colored by nepotism and rightly so, in my opinion, but at the same time, Doc has actually built up his trade value because of it. Austin Rivers is an oxymoron in that he can be both over-rated and under-rated as well.

Third, and with regards to J.J. Redick, I don't think there was ever serious consideration of bringing him back to the Clippers despite our general affinity for him and what he provides to the team. Redick is getting older and his style of play is suffering due to his lack of athleticism with each passing season. He continues to disappear in the playoffs and opposing teams keyed in on the fact that the Clippers were vulnerable if he was locked up and not open to score, which was a major faux pas Doc failed to address. For having the reputation of being a good coach, Doc keeps failing to make adjustments and finding ways to be out-coached.

Given the Clippers stagnation under Doc's watch, something had to change so bringing back Redick was a non-starter. Even then,
other things had to change. I was personally hoping for DeAndre Jordan to be traded, which would have allowed for the Gallinari trade to still happen, but we lost Chris Paul instead. C'est la vie.

[DLaren]

He has a mild case of autism...that's the only way to explain how he can be so cerebral off the court, yet such a train-wreck on the court.

I listen to him in interviews and he breaks down the game like a hall-of-fame coach, then I watch him play and it looks like he has no idea what's happening on the floor (like, completely lost).

Something is going on with his brain where he can't put what he knows into action.

[nickhx2]

that's a new one. you think he sucks so you call him autistic

you must be such a wonderful guy

[Neddy]

Austin's defense is so overrated. he is an average defender or maybe slightly above, but gets treated like he is an elite. he ain't. his decision making skills are too shot to be a PG despite having the handles. his shooting was atrocious but worked it through the last couple of years to be respectful enough to warrant defense to pay attention, but it isn't anything elite either. his skill sets would work greatly if he was 6-7 SF, but unfortunately he is a tweener guard, doesn't have the court vision to be a point, and doesn't have the true 3 and D to be a SG. but he has his moments. problem is, he dwells in those moments and overlook his shortcomings often. he is best suited coming off the bench, and not the first guard to come off the bench either. if it wasn't for his dad, he would be out of the league by now.

but he is a clipper, so whenever he is on the court, I do cheer for his ass. same for his nepotism driven dad. I actually was a fan of Doc Sr when he was playing for us. same for Mark the "action" Jackson. but they really let me down 25 years later.

[og15]

i think there was but at a certain point it became pretty clear that keeping all of jordan, blake, paul, and redick would be ridiculously expensive because of tax penalties. we might have tried to keep jj, but once paul was gone that was it for jj as well. it certainly didn't help that joe ingles ruined him on both ends in the playoffs.

JJ was never being kept. In his podcast and the video he made, he said the Clippers did not contact him all free agency until he got his "break up" call from Lawrence Frank. JJ also kind of said he assumed this would happen after both Jamal and Austin were brought back and he realized that the team probably didn't want to put like $40 million into 3 SG's.

___

Austin is a mediocre player who went from a terrible finisher and useless outside shooter to an actually pretty decent finisher, and above average 3PT shooter. He's a little small at SG, but more so strength wise. He's only 6'4, but he has good length, so he can keep up in that regard. He also started competing on defense his last season with New Orleans and into being a Clipper, so while he still has faults there, he competes on that end.

I can't agree with the China comments, the reason is that I've seen worse lottery picks (even non lottery picks) get multiple chances while not producing any better at the same stage. That is one thing about the NBA, if you are a lottery pick, you will get a good amount of chances before you get tossed out. Some lottery bound team with availability will pick up a guy like Austin in the waiver wire, or whatever for cheap. A team like Philly or even the Knicks, and he would be able to tag on for the minimum. Look, Wesley Johnson has survived through the NBA on having physical tools and being a former lottery pick. Jimmer Fredette kept getting chances over and over. Thomas Robinson, picked up over and over again. Even if he went to the D-League, he would destroy the D-League, then someone would pick him up, so I don't really think there's any value in hanging on to the whole "he would be in China" thing. There are just easily worse players in the NBA who are even older. The combination of age and pick status would easily have kept Austin in the NBA.

[Ranma]

I can't agree with the China comments, the reason is that I've seen worse lottery picks (even non lottery picks) get multiple chances while not producing any better at the same stage. That is one thing about the NBA, if you are a lottery pick, you will get a good amount of chances before you get tossed out. Some lottery bound team with availability will pick up a guy like Austin in the waiver wire, or whatever for cheap. A team like Philly or even the Knicks, and he would be able to tag on for the minimum. Look, Wesley Johnson has survived through the NBA on having physical tools and being a former lottery pick. Jimmer Fredette kept getting chances over and over. Thomas Robinson, picked up over and over again. Even if he went to the D-League, he would destroy the D-League, then someone would pick him up, so I don't really think there's any value in hanging on to the whole "he would be in China" thing. There are just easily worse players in the NBA who are even older. The combination of age and pick status would easily have kept Austin in the NBA.

You have a point with regards to teams taking chances on former lottery picks, but Austin Rivers didn't help matters with his attitude. He already built up a reputation as someone difficult to reach, especially after Coach K couldn't get him to realize more of his full potential. He might have gotten another chance or two, but he very likely would have eventually found his way to playing overseas.

People like to discount the Rivers nepotism as overblown but Doc really did give him more opportunities and leeway compared to other rookies and young players. Austin's dad was one of the few people who understood what it took to reach him and also happened to be one of the few to tolerate his act. I doubt many other coaches would have done the same for a guy who proved so little at that point and was already generating negative buzz as word of mouth spread around the inner circle of personnel evaluators.

Don't forget that guys like Hassan Whiteside were having trouble getting workouts with coaches including Doc until Riley took a chance on him. Reputation matters. It's even conceivable that Rivers could have performed well enough in leagues outside of the NBA for teams to give him a second look, but it's hard to argue that Austin didn't land in a favorable position when his dad traded for him regardless of what Doc says about initially not wanting to deal for him due to concerns over perception.

[QRich3]

lol nick killed the thread just as it started

Fully agree with his assessment, down to the annoying personality, and I will say he greatly regressed on defense last year, just as he was improving on offense. He was a lot lazier and disinterested on that end, but I'm cool with it cause he was still making improvements where he was weaker (shooting, off ball awareness). But he can play very good defense in stretches, so it's just a matter of putting it all together consistently, which I don't doubt he will, seeing his workrate and how he's progressed so far.

About his advanced stats... most people don't understand how to read advanced stats and think a negative number means he's just a bad player, and it doesn't really work like that. Boxscore "advanced stats" (VORP, BPM, PER and the sort) are not very useful for me cause they're more focused on showing productivity than quality. And even then, they only measure a bunch of areas that are only a small part of the game. Adjusted +/- stats can be very useful, but using them as a hard ranking of the quality of the players is equally useless. They tend to show how well a team performs when a player is on the court, so they're very influenced by said player's role. That's why, even in stats that adjust for teammates and opponents, you have guys like Javale McGee go from one of the one the worst players in the league to one of the best in one year, as soon as he has a defined role on a good team. Or Jae Crowder go from bottom of the league, to middle pack, to top ten in the whole league, as he gets comfortable with his role.

Austin has a bunch of defined above average qualities in some of the most important aspects of the game, but with Jamal and Redick here, he hasn't had a defined role that suits his skills. So, becoming a good player according to those stats is just a matter of time to put it together and having an properly established role. It's hard to argue anything about him with someone that can't see that. And usually, guys who even use the word "nepotism" are more interested in drama than basketball anyway, so not even worth it.

Now about his role on the current Clippers, I would've loved him as the bench SG if we had made the Lou Williams for Avery Bradley trade, how great would that have been. But as is, with Lou on the roster, I'd trade him for a guy that can play the role we need with the starters, the role Bradley would've played. I'm not comfortable with our SG rotation being Rivers and Williams. Even when he's one the few good young players we have. I go back and forth with the idea of trading him for Courtney Lee, as Austin should be a better asset being young and safe to keep improving, and Lee has a longer and more expensive contract than I like. But the fit would be so much better.

[MartinToVaught]

He has a mild case of autism...that's the only way to explain how he can be so cerebral off the court, yet such a train-wreck on the court.

I listen to him in interviews and he breaks down the game like a hall-of-fame coach, then I watch him play and it looks like he has no idea what's happening on the floor (like, completely lost).

Something is going on with his brain where he can't put what he knows into action.

Wow, that's one of the most classless posts I've ever read on here. What is wrong with you?

[og15]

I can't agree with the China comments, the reason is that I've seen worse lottery picks (even non lottery picks) get multiple chances while not producing any better at the same stage. That is one thing about the NBA, if you are a lottery pick, you will get a good amount of chances before you get tossed out. Some lottery bound team with availability will pick up a guy like Austin in the waiver wire, or whatever for cheap. A team like Philly or even the Knicks, and he would be able to tag on for the minimum. Look, Wesley Johnson has survived through the NBA on having physical tools and being a former lottery pick. Jimmer Fredette kept getting chances over and over. Thomas Robinson, picked up over and over again. Even if he went to the D-League, he would destroy the D-League, then someone would pick him up, so I don't really think there's any value in hanging on to the whole "he would be in China" thing. There are just easily worse players in the NBA who are even older. The combination of age and pick status would easily have kept Austin in the NBA.

You have a point with regards to teams taking chances on former lottery picks, but Austin Rivers didn't help matters with his attitude. He already built up a reputation as someone difficult to reach, especially after Coach K couldn't get him to realize more of his full potential. He might have gotten another chance or two, but he very likely would have eventually found his way to playing overseas.

People like to discount the Rivers nepotism as overblown but Doc really did give him more opportunities and leeway compared to other rookies and young players. Austin's dad was one of the few people who understood what it took to reach him and also happened to be one of the few to tolerate his act. I doubt many other coaches would have done the same for a guy who proved so little at that point and was already generating negative buzz as word of mouth spread around the inner circle of personnel evaluators.

Don't forget that guys like Hassan Whiteside were having trouble getting workouts with coaches including Doc until Riley took a chance on him. Reputation matters. It's even conceivable that Rivers could have performed well enough in leagues outside of the NBA for teams to give him a second look, but it's hard to argue that Austin didn't land in a favorable position when his dad traded for him regardless of what Doc says about initially not wanting to deal for him due to concerns over perception.

Even with his attitude, there would have been someone, because in the end he does have talent, and there were older players coming out of the draft the next year with less talent than him. Austin is cocky and annoying, but there are worse attitude problems in the league. Despite that, he listened to Monty, he changed his game to focus more on defense so he could get minutes with Monty, that's how you stick in the NBA, even if you are cocky and annoying. In college he was what, 17 or 18, so I'd assume 3 years of being a bottom NBA player taught him a bit.

I can agree that Doc have him good chances, but 14-15 we're hard capped, just traded an even worse attitude in Farmar away, there was a lot of room for opportunity on the team for any marginal player. He was a below average player for sure, defended, but he was still wild and inefficient.

15-16, working with Cassell all summer, he really was an acceptable bench player. Shot like 40% 3PT over the last half of the season, still defended. The problem I had that season was not whether Austin was good enough to get minutes or not, his improvement was clear, it was the whole make up and mish mash of a roster that was put together. From the off-season I said Jamal should have been traded if Stephenson is being added, Smith should have been given a very clear and defined role or not be signed, etc, etc

One thing that makes me not really think there's much of an issue is that even guys like Farmar, CDR, Smith and Stephenson, guys who were salty at the team and certainly aren't coming back to the Clippers, some who are done with the league altogether, they've said absolutely nothing about any favoritism, not one thing. If players felt that, it should slip out from someone or be implied somewhere, but it's only ever "sources" whose stories change every day and then get dismantled by actual words by people involved (this is about the team in general).

All that said, this doesn't mean I haven't been on the trade Austin bandwagon, lol. I know it sounds contradictory, but to me trading a player is not about like or dislike, it's about who has value, who can bring back what is needed, and what's the best decision moving forward.

[Captain Ballmer]

21 points, 8 assists, 11 stitches!!



He improved every year and got better all-around, always FOUGHT hard. Even some haters around the league(Bill Simmons) accepted that. I'm happy for Austin that now without JJ-Jamal-Cp3 he finally have a chance to be a starter. I think he's still a lot to show on his baggage and wouldn't be surprised if he even outplays Gallo and have become 2nd scorer by the end of the season.