Are We Still a Treadmill Team....

Quake Griffin · Post #1 » by **Quake Griffin** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:57 pm

Or can this group actually get better and do some damage?

Neddy · Post #2 » by **Neddy** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:23 am

what's wrong with a treadmill team? nobody is going to win it all as long as the Warriors team is healthy and still intact... even then treadmill teams are still just a couple of freak injuries away from slipping into the championship games.

Quake Griffin · Post #3 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:35 am

Nothing really.

But I want to shoot for a chip and not waste Jerry West while we have him.

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Post #4 » by **og15** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:42 am

This coming season, yes, technically we are. Right below luxury, not likely a top 3 seed and not going to be bad where we get a lottery pick. We'll see what moves can be made moving forward to change that.

clips4ever · Post #5 » by **clips4ever** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:43 am

I hate it when people call us a treadmill team. Just saw someone on the general board mock Ballmer for paying "all that money to be the 7th seed." Well in that case there are 29 teams paying way too much money because no one except the Warriors is going to win for the next couple of years barring a freak injury which they have been pretty lucky with. Bottom line is by the "treadmill theory" almost every team in the NBA is a treadmill team. Nothing wrong with acquiring as many assets as possible right now and trying to gel this team together and hopefully go for a star in the next two offseasons.

Post #6 » by **og15** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:46 am

clips4ever wrote:I hate it when people call us a treadmill team. Just saw someone on the general board mock Ballmer for paying "all that money to be the 7th seed." Well in that case there are 29 teams paying way too much money because no one except the Warriors is going to win for the next couple of years barring a freak injury which they have been pretty lucky with. Bottom line is by the "treadmill theory" almost every team in the NBA is a treadmill team. Nothing wrong with acquiring as many assets as possible right now and trying to gel this team together and hopefully go for a star in the next two offseasons.

LOL, the general board. On the general board, every team but GS and Cleveland was a treadmill team. There were people who were basically calling for 28 teams to tank because they have no chance, which of course makes no sense, and you know, winning is still nice, and even if your chance is small, being able to break through if certain things happen is nice. Don't know why people want to watch lottery teams.

madmaxmedia · Post #7 » by **madmaxmedia** » Tue Aug 1, 2017 4:43 pm

Considering we just turned over significant aspects of our team, I don't think 'treadmill' applies to us yet. There's a bunch of teams that are not good enough to win a championship, yes we're among them, but it's a new squad and who knows where things go in the next couple of offseasons...

Galloisdaman · Post #8 » by **Galloisdaman** » Tue Aug 1, 2017 10:02 pm

There is no way of telling for sure. Pro sports has a way of surprising people. Sure GS has won 2 of the last 3 years but I would not rule out a major surprise. Many Mike Tyson type teams run in to a Buster Douglas team sooner or later. If you told me that both the Cavs and GS were upset next season I would not be totally shocked. When Magic and Bird played early in their careers some people felt they would face each other in the finals every year but teams like Houston, Milwaukee, etc had other ideas.

JGOJustin · Post #9 » by **JGOJustin** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:25 pm

If the Clippers are a 'Treadmill Team' Then that's honestly okay. For one, it's the warriors world and everyone else is living in it, but two and probably WAY more important...

WERE THE LA CLIPPPERS. If we were the Lakers or Spurs, being a 'treadmill' team would matter. But the Clippers don't have that equity. "The Clippers are stuck being a playoff team" since when is that a bad thing for LAC?!

In theory, everyone would want to win a championship every year but it doesn't work like that. If you look at the Clippers from a Macro-Level, being a perennial playoff team will do wonders for the Clippers as a franchise moving forward. They couldn't afford to essentially lose the 6 years of groundwork that they've just now made. So yes Ballmer may have tied his team into being a "treadmill" (Playoff) team but that's okay, you can't win every year and for a franchise like LAC, going to the playoffs is still a win.

Most don't consider the fact that next year will literally be just the 4th year that LAC has had a real operating owner. In that four years' time, they've totally revamped the FO, built a minor league system, and have done amazing work to get up to speed with the rest of the NBA in their quest to become not just an elite basketball team, but an elite Franchise as well. Prior to Ballmer's arrival, the Clippers were not an elite NBA franchise. They were good on the floor, but still so behind everyone else off of it.

And that's my point. We're 4 years into our quest to change the image of the franchise, and winning goes a long way for that. If we never win a chip then that's okay because on a macro level, the Clippers becoming a forward thinking, elite level franchise in the NBA means far more and making the playoffs consistently aids in that.

JGOJustin · Post #10 » by **JGOJustin** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:27 pm

I mean think about it, we've only been really good in 06', and in the past 6 years. That's 7 years in recent memory. That's a drop in the bucket.

The fact that anyone would insinuate that LAC being a treadmill (playoff) team being a bad thing is beyond me.

As I said above, if this were another franchise, then maybe I could see it. But for the Clippers?! Nah

esqtvd · Post #11 » by **esqtvd** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 9:19 pm

JGOJustin wrote:I mean think about it, we've only been really good in 06', and in the past 6 years. That's 7 years in recent memory. That's a drop in the bucket.

The fact that anyone would insinuate that LAC being a treadmill (playoff) team being a bad thing is beyond me.

As I said above, if this were another franchise, then maybe I could see it. But for the Clippers?! Nah

Yah. I'm not ready to go back in the crapper for 4-5 years with this "Process" thing. I'm from Philly and it was a disgrace. And there's no guarantee that the Sixers, Wolves or even Lakers will be in the next generation of dominant teams.

But yeah, I think honestly that with no budding superstars and our top guys around 30, we're on the "treadmill." But if 50 wins is a treadmill, after almost nonstop misery and humiliation since 1984 and the lowest winning percentage in all of American sports, the "treadmill" doesn't look so bad.

Quake Griffin · Post #12 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 2:35 am

Clipper fans deserve a championship.

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esqtvd · Post #13 » by **esqtvd** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 10:32 am

Omitted

Post #14 » by **QRich3** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 10:37 am

I think most people don't really understand what Pritchard meant when he coined the "treadmill of mediocrity" term. It was meant for teams in cap hell, with bad trade assets that aren't getting top picks. Nowadays, for casual fans, it applies to pretty much any team that hasn't either made the finals or gotten a top pick in the last couple of years, which is nonsensical.

A great deal of the championship teams in NBA history (probably most?) have been largely built either through trades or free agency, and to get top players either through trade or free agency, most of the time you need to have an already appealing team in place. The build-completely-through-the-draft-and-get-a-championship thing is a lot less common than most people think it is. Drafting well is very important of course, but doubling down in only one way of roster building is very limiting and very difficult to pull off.

Clippers are more likely to get a championship calibre team by being as good as possible while keeping tradeable contracts and future flexibility, than they are going nuclear and tearing it all up for draft picks. Like a lot more likely. But in either case, it's still extremely unlikely, so when it doesn't happen, people will still use hindsight to claim their way was the one.

Quake Griffin · Post #15 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 11:48 am

QRich3 wrote:I think most people don't really understand what Pritchard meant when he coined the "treadmill of mediocrity" term. It was meant for teams in cap hell, with bad trade assets that aren't getting top picks. Nowadays, for casual fans, it applies to pretty much any team that hasn't either made the finals or gotten a top pick in the last couple of years, which is nonsensical.

A great deal of the championship teams in NBA history (probably most?) have been largely built either through trades or free agency, and to get top players either through trade or free agency, most of the time you need to have an already appealing team in place. The build-completely-through-the-draft-and-get-a-championship thing is a lot less common than most people think it is. Drafting well is very important of course, but doubling down in only one way of roster building is very limiting and very difficult to pull off.

Clippers are more likely to get a championship calibre team by being as good as possible while keeping tradeable contracts and future flexibility, than they are going nuclear and tearing it all up for draft picks. Like a lot more likely. But in either case, it's still extremely unlikely, so when it doesn't happen, people will still use hindsight to claim their way was the one.

What person here has said build completely through the draft?

I hate what Sam Hinkie did and if you remember, I hate what he did because he ignored an entirely different avenue of improving his team (FA).

I don't hate trading 1st round picks. I hate how Doc traded first round picks. You think if there was a magical way to trade a first for LeBron, I'd go "nuh uh uh...picks are valuable"? Be serious. Part of the reason I hate burned assets is that we can't make deals....not just the chance that we can spin straw (a 20s pick) into gold.

I'd like to see our team at the forefront of everything. Good at drafting and development. Appealing to FAs. A GM who makes good trades and gets value from his assets.

Yes, I think drafting is your base. Yes, I think FA and Trades are supplements to drafting. I'd like to hope our next superstar is drafted at age 19-22 and spends a full career here more so than signing here at 27/28 for a 4-5 year window of their prime.

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Post #16 » by **QRich3** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 12:20 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:What person here has said build completely through the draft?

The rebuild crew, you know who they are.

But yeah, there are 3 avenues to add talent in the NBA, you have to use all three depending on the circumstances, and not one of them is more likely than the other to end up in success. You need to do everything perfect to succeed, but in the end it will be dumb luck that sets you apart. The dumb luck of discovering Draymond Green in the 2nd round when you thought you just had a David Lee back up (even though you were ahead of the rest scouting him), the dumb luck of having Harden fall in your hands when you didn't expect it (even though you were preparing a move like this for years), the dumb luck of Lebron happening to want to sign to your team in FA (even though you had been keeping capspace with vague ideas of what to do with it).

When it comes to the current Clippers, having cheap tradable contracts like Beverly's or Lou's or probably Milos' is important because you can trade them for other pieces or you can open up capspace, or you can even get more picks. If you fully rebuild, you cash all/most of your current assets for future ones, and then you can just get picks and/or bad contracts for your capspace. Which makes sense for some teams, but not for a team with decent manageable assets like the Clippers. "Future picks" is the most volatile type of asset you can have, it is nice for fans to keep dreaming of some wild upside (the classic DTS "we sell hope"), but when it comes to the likeliness of them realizing, it's easier to build up with more known assets in players that you can properly evaluate against other NBA players.

That has nothing to do with the importance of having a great infrastructure when it comes to scouting, recruiting and such, whatever avenue you're using the most, that's really important.

Galloisdaman · Post #17 » by **Galloisdaman** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 2:01 pm

You have to be in it to win it. There are teams that spend year after year after year in the lottery yet they rarely make the playoffs so they can't win anything. Then you have The Celtics, Cavs and Miami teams that just looked to put together their big 3 teams. Looks like Houston is trying that route as well. There is no one way to win in pro sports. If there was one way every team would be doing it. The best teams build through the draft, though trades and through free agency. They do not ignore any of the 3 avenues.

MartinToVaught · Post #18 » by **MartinToVaught** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 3:33 pm

QRich3 wrote:I think most people don't really understand what Pritchard meant when he coined the "treadmill of mediocrity" term. It was meant for teams in cap hell, with bad trade assets that aren't getting top picks.

In other words, the CP3 Clippers.

Wammy Giveaway · Post #19 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 5:47 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Clipper fans deserve a championship.

esqtvd wrote:Cubbie fans waited 108 years. Ranma, etc., need to wait at least twice that. They deserve nothing. And they shall receive it...in abundance!

Why do the Clippers deserve a championship? I'm not talking about the fans here, just the team.

Quake Griffin · Post #20 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Aug 3, 2017 7:27 pm

Wammy Giveaway wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:Clipper fans deserve a championship.

esqtvd wrote:Omitted

Why do the Clippers deserve a championship? I'm not talking about the fans here, just the team.

Not sure why you'd ask that if I never said that.

Hopefully that was aimed towards esqtvd. I intend to not get in the mud with his Ranma bashing.
Ranma's a good Clipper fan and an excellent contributor to this board.