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Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:12 pm**

Discuss.

Ranma, MK please provide tweets. I never learned that.

That stench is almost out of our front office.

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Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:39 pm**

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Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:40 pm**

Trent Redden, Cleveland Cavaliers senior vice president of basketball operations

In the 11 years since he began his tenure in Cleveland as an intern, Redden has seen the full emotional spectrum of an NBA organization -- the early LeBron years, consistent success, the inability to fill out a team around a mega-superstar, the ashes left in the wake of LeBron's departure, The Return, a close call and finally an NBA title.

This circumstantial range is a gift to a young executive with aspirations, which is why those who know and have worked with Redden believe he's primed to head a front office in the coming years. They describe a worker bee who both looks the part and has the requisite qualifications, from X's and O's to taming superstar ego to jiu-jitsu with agents.

Redden is popular within the organization on the basketball and business side, as is his colleague, assistant general manager Koby Altman, who is another name to watch.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/presents18995570/nba-front-office-prospects-watch

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:50 pm**

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Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:21 pm**

Looks like another good hire, if he was Griffin's number 2, I like what they were doing in Cleveland. Same for most of Ferry's time there (eff Danny Ferry btw). Not putting much stock in all the "highly regarded around the league" quotes around, cause everybody gets them when they get a new job, but apparently he specialised in college scouting back in Cleveland, so that's always good.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:49 pm**

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Watch on YouTube

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:34 pm**

Quake Griffin wrote:Ranma, MK please provide tweets. I never learned that.

Just copy and paste the link to the tweet in your post. If you have multiple tweets, just stack them on top of each other.

Normally, you would have to put the "[tweet][/tweet]" tags around each twitter link just like you would for images and URL links, but the post editor recognizes tweets and reformats it for you.

I do it from a computer, so it may be more difficult to do so from your phone, especially with the app.

Step 1

Step 2

Step 3

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:11 pm**

yeah everyone's "highly regarded' when they come over from a different place, so i never pay attention to that. the real nitty gritty that i care about is these guys seem to be extremely organized with very specific strengths and roles the team currently needs filled. we should be very pleased with all of our additions thus far this offseason.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:04 pm**

Can Doc survive not being top dog anymore?
Can he #TrustTheProcess?

We will see.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:53 am**

I actually place some value in both Trent Redden and Mike Winger being highly regarded since they were seen as such prior to this off-season. I don't really know much about either outside of what Kevin Arnovitz wrote about both in the article MartinToVaught cited, but I do remember how Redden was David Griffin's trusted right-hand man in Cleveland and how loyal he was to Griffin when Dan Gilbert relieved him of his GM duties.

Redden could have easily stayed on to replace his mentor, but chose to leave. Maybe Gilbert fired Redden in tandem with Griffin because Redden was Griffin's yes man, but I find the former more believable than the latter given the Cavs owner's reputation and history of frugal missteps. While I think Griffin's time as the Cavaliers' GM to be a bit overrated, he's still well respected and I find that having Redden learn from him is a benefit. Who knows? Maybe Redden's presence may even help pave the way for LeBron James to consider the Clippers since we apparently can't count on our own franchise player in Blake Griffin to do so.

In any case, I like what Steve Ballmer is doing in moving quickly to rebuild the front office in the aftermath of relieving Doc Rivers of his old GM responsibilities. While it is not of the same magnitude as the Dodgers' front office think tank, Ballmer's new hires and pursuit for the executive suite is rather impressive with Jerry West and Trent Redden in the fold and Mike Winger in line to come aboard.

However, as I mentioned in the Winger thread, Lawrence Frank is inexperienced in the role of president of basketball operations. He's exhibited some promising signs but I don't consider him to be an inherent talent evaluator. To be fair, I also wasn't onboard with the Dodgers' hiring of Billy Gasparino as the head amateur scout with regards to the draft, but he seems to be adjusting to my more preferred approach possibly under the guidance of our think tank's boss, Stan Kasten...but I digress yet again.

What I'm saying is that I think we need more talent evaluators and/or draft experts added to the staff. While each new hire and promotion brings their own respective area of expertise, only one is experienced or even noted for his draft acumen. Winger is a first-rate capologist while he and Redden are also noted for their organizational and relationship-management skills. West is obviously a legend as a front office executive with a still sharp mind, but he can't be expected to physically handle the rigors of scouting trips anymore. I've already mentioned Frank's inexperience.

For as much as I hated the nepotism and cronyism under Doc's watch, I have to say that an exception to the rule for me would be to hiring Jerry's son Ryan West. Ryan knows his father better than any other NBA executive and would serve as the perfect conduit to practice what Jerry West preaches while conducting the scouting trips that his father is unable to carry out nowadays. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that Ryan will remain loyal to the Lakers. I even suspect the Clippers tried to persuade Ryan to switch sides but failed to convince him.

Our new front office seems well poised for free agency, but I still have concerns about the draft and player development. We're obviously better off than we have been under Doc's watch, but I think we still have some holes to fill in the organizational infrastructure.

I'm also glad that Doc is on the hot seat needing to prove himself as coach, but we still need to strip away his cronies who populate the team staff.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:59 am**

Yeah, while I'm not gonna act like I have hopes that Frank is a top executive already, or anything of the sort, I like the fact that the guy at the top of the chain is a basketball guy, and a really gifted one at that. As a coach and an assistant, Frank always struck me as a dude that understands strategy stuff quickly, and him being able to properly overhaul our defensive system and turn it from terrible to one of the best should prove that.

He doesn't really need to be a good talent evaluator as long as he trusts Jerry West, he doesn't need to be a good scout as long as he trusts Redden, and he doesn't need to be the best negotiator as long as Winger is doing well there. He does need to have quick thinking and be good at projecting how all the pieces fit, and he does seem like a good man for that. Only thing that makes me nervous is if he's gonna have patience and a long term vision, which also important for the final decision maker.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:05 pm**

Sources say the team has plans to add another assistant general manager to its brain trust.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20405545/la-clippers-hire-long-cleveland-cavaliers-executive-trent-redden-assistant-general-manager

This was the last sentence, and possibly the most interesting, from the Kevin Arnovitz article on ESPN about hiring Redden. I must second Ranma's previous sentiments and feel like we could still use another talent evaluator in the mix. I also agree that Ryan West would be an ideal fit. But, regardless what direction we take, it's nice to hear from a reputable source that we aren't complacent yet and continue to be aggressive despite what we have managed to pull off so far.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:05 pm**

QRich3 wrote:Yeah, while I'm not gonna act like I have hopes that Frank is a top executive already, or anything of the sort, I like the fact that the guy at the top of the chain is a basketball guy, and a really gifted one at that. As a coach and an assistant, Frank always struck me as a dude that understands strategy stuff quickly, and him being able to properly overhaul our defensive system and turn it from terrible to one of the best should prove that.

He doesn't really need to be a good talent evaluator as long as he trusts Jerry West, he doesn't need to be a good scout as long as he trusts Redden, and he doesn't need to be the best negotiator as long as Winger is doing well there. He does need to have quick thinking and be good at projecting how all the pieces fit, and he does seem like a good man for that. Only thing that makes me nervous is if he's gonna have patience and a long term vision, which also important for the final decision maker.

This is it right here, and this is what Doc himself who had been in a functioning front office before and had some idea of what that looked like, or at least had people he could talk to about how it works effectively should have fought for when Ballmer joined. Instead of trying to do everything with his own few guys, he should have been quick to get all the help possible to surround him, which in the end actually makes his life easier and helps him to make better decisions while basically doing nothing but being consulted on final decisions. It happened in the end, but Doc, especially not having Basketball Ops experience should have fought to surround the FO with maximal support staff.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:40 pm**

agree with all.

i mean you wish they come to that realization sooner but who knows, maybe the organization never realizes the need for a full-on brain trust without all the circumstances that occurred before it.

at the end of the day if we keep making moves like this the team will keep moving closer to championships.

also i wonder if the next guy we bring in will be a pure analytics guy. at some point that'll happen, right?

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:17 pm**

og15 wrote:
QRich3 wrote:Yeah, while I'm not gonna act like I have hopes that Frank is a top executive already, or anything of the sort, I like the fact that the guy at the top of the chain is a basketball guy, and a really gifted one at that. As a coach and an assistant, Frank always struck me as a dude that understands strategy stuff quickly, and him being able to properly overhaul our defensive system and turn it from terrible to one of the best should prove that.

He doesn't really need to be a good talent evaluator as long as he trusts Jerry West, he doesn't need to be a good scout as long as he trusts Redden, and he doesn't need to be the best negotiator as long as Winger is doing well there. He does need to have quick thinking and be good at projecting how all the pieces fit, and he does seem like a good man for that. Only thing that makes me nervous is if he's gonna have patience and a long term vision, which also important for the final decision maker.

This is it right here, and this is what Doc himself who had been in a functioning front office before and had some idea of what that looked like, or at least had people he could talk to about how it works effectively should have fought for when Ballmer joined. Instead of trying to do everything with his own few guys, he should have been quick to get all the help possible to surround him, which in the end actually makes his life easier and helps him to make better decisions while basically doing nothing but being consulted on final decisions. It happened in the end, but Doc, especially not having Basketball Ops experience should have fought to surround the FO with maximal support staff.

All true, but with no cap room and little in the way of picks, there wasn't a lot for all these brainiacs to do. Doc relying on his personal charm, rep, position and power to seduce minimum-wagers to come aboard was where the action was. He did replace the entire scouting staff in 2016, at least a year too late. But without an aircraft carrier like Jerry West, bringing in junior FO guys would have been the blind leading the stupid.

I also think that as a result of shake-ups across the league, there's a glut of FO talent loose at the moment. Each of these assistant GM types will be parking it at the Clippers, where the pay's great and you're working in the same org as Jerry West, like studying cello under Yo Yo Ma--better credentials you can't get. But each will be understandably just biding time until something bigger and better comes along.

In the meantime, unlike the days of the set-in-stone Big 3½, everything and everybody's going to be on the table. If the stories are true, DJ's up for grabs and Pat Bev didn't even unpack his socks before he was back on the market in a play for Kyrie. The Clippers are going to be a fun gig.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:31 pm**

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:
QRich3 wrote:Yeah, while I'm not gonna act like I have hopes that Frank is a top executive already, or anything of the sort, I like the fact that the guy at the top of the chain is a basketball guy, and a really gifted one at that. As a coach and an assistant, Frank always struck me as a dude that understands strategy stuff quickly, and him being able to properly overhaul our defensive system and turn it from terrible to one of the best should prove that.

He doesn't really need to be a good talent evaluator as long as he trusts Jerry West, he doesn't need to be a good scout as long as he trusts Redden, and he doesn't need to be the best negotiator as long as Winger is doing well there. He does need to have quick thinking and be good at projecting how all the pieces fit, and he does seem like a good man for that. Only thing that makes me nervous is if he's gonna have patience and a long term vision, which also important for the final decision maker.

This is it right here, and this is what Doc himself who had been in a functioning front office before and had some idea of what that looked like, or at least had people he could talk to about how it works effectively should have fought for when Ballmer joined. Instead of trying to do everything with his own few guys, he should have been quick to get all the help possible to surround him, which in the end actually makes his life easier and helps him to make better decisions while basically doing nothing but being consulted on final decisions. It happened in the end, but Doc, especially not having Basketball Ops experience should have fought to surround the FO with maximal support staff.

All true, but with no cap room and little in the way of picks, there wasn't a lot for all these brainiacs to do. Doc relying on his personal charm, rep, position and power to seduce minimum-wagers to come aboard was where the action was. He did replace the entire scouting staff in 2016, at least a year too late. But without an aircraft carrier like Jerry West, bringing in junior FO guys would have been the blind leading the stupid.

I also think that as a result of shake-ups across the league, there's a glut of FO talent loose at the moment. Each of these assistant GM types will be parking it at the Clippers, where the pay's great and you're working in the same org as Jerry West, like studying cello under Yo Yo Ma--better credentials you can't get. But each will be understandably just biding time until something bigger and better comes along.

In the meantime, unlike the days of the set-in-stone Big 3½, everything and everybody's going to be on the table. If the stories are true, DJ's up for grabs and Pat Bev didn't even unpack his socks before he was back on the market in a play for Kyrie. The Clippers are going to be a fun gig.

It's not even about doing anything mighty. Over years, all the little things end up adding up. Future cap planning, for example, is very important, that prevents a Jared Dudley trade situation for example. All the little things end up adding up, and when you have more people and people dedicated to certain things and you don't have few people trying to do too many things, you can keep on top of all those little things. It isn't even necessarily about them being brainiacs, it's just about having people to delegate to and therefore crossing all your t's and dotting all your i's.

The interesting thing in the NBA is that the closer your team is to truly contend, but not quite there yet, the better your management usually has to be because you are usually working with less cap space and lower draft picks. So that's actually when you need to cover all your bases, maximize ALL assets, waste nothing because you have so little. When you are trying to get good, it's not as hard. It's easier to become a good team in the NBA than it is to become a great team, and when you have a chance, even a small chance to become a great team, you have to make sure you have little regrets because the chances don't come as often as one might think.

Posted: **Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:37 am**

og15 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:This is it right here, and this is what Doc himself who had been in a functioning front office before and had some idea of what that looked like, or at least had people he could talk to about how it works effectively should have fought for when Ballmer joined. Instead of trying to do everything with his own few guys, he should have been quick to get all the help possible to surround him, which in the end actually makes his life easier and helps him to make better decisions while basically doing nothing but being consulted on final decisions. It happened in the end, but Doc, especially not having Basketball Ops experience should have fought to surround the FO with maximal support staff.

All true, but with no cap room and little in the way of picks, there wasn't a lot for all these brainiacs to do. Doc relying on his personal charm, rep, position and power to seduce minimum-wagers to come aboard was where the action was. He did replace the entire scouting staff in 2016, at least a year too late. But without an aircraft carrier like Jerry West, bringing in junior FO guys would have been the blind leading the stupid.

I also think that as a result of shake-ups across the league, there's a glut of FO talent loose at the moment. Each of these assistant GM types will be parking it at the Clippers, where the pay's great and you're working in the same org as Jerry West, like studying cello under Yo Yo Ma--better credentials you can't get. But each will be understandably just biding time until something bigger and better comes along.

In the meantime, unlike the days of the set-in-stone Big 3½, everything and everybody's going to be on the table. If the stories are true, DJ's up for grabs and Pat Bev didn't even unpack his socks before he was back on the market in a play for Kyrie. The Clippers are going to be a fun gig.
It's not even about doing anything mighty. Over years, all the little things end up adding up. Future cap planning, for example, is very important, that prevents a Jared Dudley trade situation for example. All the little things end up adding up, and when you have more people and people dedicated to certain things and you don't have few people trying to do too many things, you can keep on top of all those little things. It isn't even necessarily about them being brainiacs, it's just about having people to delegate to and therefore crossing all your t's and dotting all your i's.

The interesting thing in the NBA is that the closer your team is to truly contend, but not quite there yet, the better your management usually has to be because you are usually working with less cap space and lower draft picks. So that's actually when you need to cover all your bases, maximize ALL assets, waste nothing because you have so little. When you are trying to get good, it's not as hard. It's easier to become a good team in the NBA than it is to become a great team, and when you have a chance, even a small chance to become a great team, you have to make sure you have little regrets because the chances don't come as often as one might think.

I agree, but it's not as much fun or a place to make your mark when you're just shuffling minor deck chairs, the bottom of the roster, or trying to bite a few bucks off the apron. It's really not going to make much difference on the court or in the standings.

I think the Clippers FO is a great place to be at the moment. Not so thrilling while CP was here and 3 guys ate 2/3 of the cap and we had little in the way of picks. But now between Ballmer's largesse, the Clippers reshuffling the roster, and Jerry West in the house, for an up-and-comer, Clipper Nation is a choiceworthy destination.

As for Dudley, I was his biggest critic from the first preseason game: I'm like WTF. But as it turns out, he was a bit of a hero playing hurt when the team needed minutes. I still hate him though.

My pet theory is that Doc dumped him because he'd become a cancer, though I have no links to prove it except that he's still badmouthing the org. If Dudley had become a cancer, you can add addition-by-subtraction to the case for dumping him, even if the cost is still considered too high.* I'd say the same about the Knucklehead Twins, Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson**.

______________________________________
*As it turned out, the Bucks dealt their pick from us for the immortal Greivis Vasquez.

**The Grizz flipped theirs for two 2nd-rounders. The case for "what might have been" is not all that compelling.

Posted: **Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:28 am**

Quake Griffin wrote:Can Doc survive not being top dog anymore?
Can he #TrustTheProcess?

We will see.

Love how you were able to make "#trust the process" relevant here.
:biggrin:

... and to answer that, I have little trust. I think Doc will bolt for what he thinks is a better pasture, which will enable him to have more power than just being a HC.

I do think the HC's value in basketball is much higher than being a manager on a baseball team per se, and although I think Doc is above average HC in NBA who is possibly a top 1/4 in the league, he isn't above say, 5 wins above replacement value. I have not looked up the stats, but from my eye test, basketball in 82 game season isn't likely to have larger than 10 game disparity in coaching from MLB, and there are never a 10 game WAR manager ever in the game.

Posted: **Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:57 am**

Hype97 wrote:
Sources say the team has plans to add another assistant general manager to its brain trust.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20405545/la-clippers-hire-long-cleveland-cavaliers-executive-trent-redden-assistant-general-manager

This was the last sentence, and possibly the most interesting, from the Kevin Arnovitz article on ESPN about hiring Redden. I must second Ranma's previous sentiments and feel like we could still use another talent evaluator in the mix. I also agree that Ryan West would be an ideal fit. But, regardless what direction we take, it's nice to hear from a reputable source that we aren't complacent yet and continue to be aggressive despite what we have managed to pull off so far.

I've previously mentioned how Lucas Hann's apparent resentment of Justin Russo's credibility pushed him to be looked at as a credible source. As such, he's probably in more of a position to spread false info as an eager and willing mouthpiece for teams and agents, but in this instance, I think it's safe to say that the organization already has someone in mind and that negotiations are underway. See the linked screenshot below.

I'm curious who it is if that is indeed the case. The secrecy has members on the Clips Nation comments section speculating and hoping that it's Ryan West. Obviously, I feel the same in hoping that the sensitivity of the situation indicates that it's the highly regarded son of the Logo who is currently employed by our crosstown rival Lakers.

However, the Clippers have previously been linked to Mark Hughes and Shareef Abdur-Rahim per Los Angeles Times beat writer Broderick (Brad) Turner, but both were already publicly reported, so Hann would be making much ado about nothing if it were either one of them, which is not something I would put past him, by the way. Also, Turner previously quoted an anonymous executive saying that it was likely that Ryan would join his father Jerry West, but that was when Ballmer hired the elder West as consultant.

Hughes is currently with the Knicks but is also another Doc crony from their time together in Orlando. Abdur-Rahim, on the other hand, is a well thought of up-and-comer, but he also lacks experience and is not either the pure statistical guru or talent evaluator we could use.

At the same time, Hann responded to a comment that also specifically referenced Ryan West. Could Hann have reached out to Ryan's agent for that comment about "ongoing negotiations" with the Clippers? Man, I hope so.

Posted: **Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:06 am**

esqtvd wrote:I agree, but it's not as much fun or a place to make your mark when you're just shuffling minor deck chairs, the bottom of the roster, or trying to bite a few bucks off the apron. It's really not going to make much difference on the court or in the standings.

I think it absolutely makes a difference in the standings and on the court, paying attention to that stuff in every little single transaction might end up being the difference between having to play 100 year old Turkoglu as your 7th man in the postseason, or overachieving every year with a rotation full of guys you're not even sure where they came from, like the Rockets do pretty much every year, for instance.

That was Doc's main weakness in his time as a POBO, and good executives try to shave some value in every little deal, from guarantee dates on camp deals to protection of late 2nd rounders, that stuff might not be very exciting but it's important.

It definitely is not as much fun to discuss though

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