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The lack of midrange jumpshots.

I am anxious to see if this is just an early season trend, or will this continue for the entire season. Blake Griffin has totally abandoned the midrange jumper and his purposely making his pick and pops 3's instead of long 2's, and as a team I'm so happy to see this. If you don't have Chris Paul or Demar Derozan on your team, you shouldn't be taking midrange jumpers and the Clips aren't. Going to be keeping track of these numbers all season

the long 2 is the worst shot in the NBA. I am glad to see that gone!

The floater from inside the foul line seems to be back bigtime, all across the league. With 2 or 3 guys collapsing to protect the rim on penetrations, I'm seeing the runner from 8 feet or so a lot so far.

As for CP, obviously our "coach on the floor" had the last word over our actual coach on the bench, who has always insisted he's a "ball movement coach" despite the snorts of his critics.

It might continue, like mentioned, Blake has finally fully transitioned to taking 3PT shots out of the pick and pop instead of mid-range shots. It's also opened up the drive for him against closeouts. Last season here was our mid-range guys (10 - <3PT):

Paul: 7.0 FGA/G
Blake: 5.7 FGA/G
Crawford: 4.8 FGA/G
Redick: 4.0 FGA/G

Paul, of course, was more of a true mid-range guy (10-17 feet), while Blake did more long mid-range, and also Redick with his one-dribble pull-ups. Obviously, all things stats wise from a 3 game sample size are hard to project, but they are good signs.

The 43% of FGA at the rim isn't sustainable as last seasons leader, Milwaukee had 35% at the rim, unlikely that a team is going to do 43% at the rim for a whole season. Pace is sustainable, they are at 100.5 possessions/game, which is close to last seasons league leader, but nothing crazy like the Lakers current 109.9 possessions/game. So far in the season that pace only ranks 14th, so everyone in the league is quite pace happy so far.

esqtvd wrote:The floater from inside the foul line seems to be back bigtime, all across the league. With 2 or 3 guys collapsing to protect the rim on penetrations, I'm seeing the runner from 8 feet or so a lot so far.

As for CP, obviously our "coach on the floor" had the last word over our actual coach on the bench, who has always insisted he's a "ball movement coach" despite the snorts of his critics.

It's interesting that Doc says that, but his Boston big three teams for most of his time there were very Rondo on ball controlling everything centric, they weren't really a ball zipping around and "ball movement" type offense.

og15 wrote:

esqtvd wrote:The floater from inside the foul line seems to be back bigtime, all across the league. With 2 or 3 guys collapsing to protect the rim on penetrations, I'm seeing the runner from 8 feet or so a lot so far.

As for CP, obviously our "coach on the floor" had the last word over our actual coach on the bench, who has always insisted he's a "ball movement coach" despite the snorts of his critics.

It's interesting that Doc says that, but his Boston big three teams for most of his time there were very Rondo on ball controlling everything centric, they weren't really a ball zipping around and "ball movement" type offense.

Could well be true without making Doc a liar. Like CP, that Big Three was a 600 lb. gorilla that did whatever it wanted too. Maybe they didn't want to whip the ball around. Too much work. Let KG back it down in the post, let PP slash or stop 'n' pop, or if the clock's running out, let Ray bomb it.

Frankly, without even blaming CP, ball movement offense was pretty impossible with DJ, Luc and even JJ as ballwhippers.

esqtvd wrote:

og15 wrote:

esqtvd wrote:The floater from inside the foul line seems to be back bigtime, all across the league. With 2 or 3 guys collapsing to protect the rim on penetrations, I'm seeing the runner from 8 feet or so a lot so far.

As for CP, obviously our "coach on the floor" had the last word over our actual coach on the bench, who has always insisted he's a "ball movement coach" despite the snorts of his critics.

It's interesting that Doc says that, but his Boston big three teams for most of his time there were very Rondo on ball controlling everything centric, they weren't really a ball zipping around and "ball movement" type offense.

Could well be true without making Doc a liar. Like CP, that Big Three was a 600 lb. gorilla that did whatever it wanted too. Maybe they didn't want to whip the ball around. Too much work. Let KG back it down in the post, let PP slash or stop 'n' pop, or if the clock's running out, let Ray bomb it.

Frankly, without even blaming CP, ball movement offense was pretty impossible with DJ, Luc and even JJ as ballwhippers.

Well of course, totally different team dynamic. It's much easier to have a ball movement offense and play with pace when all but one of your starters is a capable ball handler and playmaker. That I get. I'm not even saying that Doc doesn't like ball movement of can't coach it, but I just don't get the whole back in the Celtics days thing. I don't really remember those teams doing that, but maybe it is because they were kinda slow.

Also I mentioned it on the general board, but the idea that our previous teams were "bad" at ball movement is just purely false. Maybe back in 11-12 and 12-13 with VDN, but that's way too long ago. They didn't use bad ball movement to have great offenses, including a better offense than GS in 14-15 while having a poor bench and heavily relying on the starters. The stats bear it out if you look at passes and secondary assists in 13-14 and 14-15. Clippers were 2nd in secondary assists in 13-14 (0.1 behind the leader SA) and 5th in 14-15. If you isolate for just starters, even taking into account the minutes, Clippers starters were one of the best in the league in passes made and secondary assists. The perception people have partially comes from the change the last two seasons with injuries and the loss of Barnes which made it harder for them to play with as much flow, and the limited playmakers in the starting lineup. So while the ball moved, two guys still ended up doing most of the playmaking, so people say "well Paul just holds the ball all game", or "Griffin just stalls the offense", well they don't, but yes, after all the movement, the ball ends up coming back to them as primary creators if nothing else surfaces.

...so Doc WAS a "ball movement coach" until recent years!

esqtvd wrote:...so Doc WAS a "ball movement coach" until recent years!

Well, according to Doc, he seemingly wasn't with this team, but was back with the Celtics. Maybe that's just him being salty that CP no longer trusted his leadership and decision making though.

Doc might have lost Chris but it was Captain Chris who lost his team, I think. They just didn't like him.

I don't think LeBron's teammates love him all that much--he has the same flinty and sometimes dismissive attitude when you're not up to snuff--but he's the s**t and will always lead you past the second round, unlike the Point God. You can be as big a buttface as your talent allows.

And hey, Kyrie still pulled the plug on another guaranteed return to the Finals.

As for Doc, Gallo and Milos signed on the dotted line to play for him. Blake re-upped too. So far, we're a ball movement team, as promised.

Without Paul we will see more ball movement, but less pick and rolls I think.

esqtvd wrote:Doc might have lost Chris but it was Captain Chris who lost his team, I think. They just didn't like him.

I don't think LeBron's teammates love him all that much--he has the same flinty and sometimes dismissive attitude when you're not up to snuff--but he's the s**t and will always lead you past the second round, unlike the Point God. You can be as big a buttface as your talent allows.

And hey, Kyrie still pulled the plug on another guaranteed return to the Finals.

As for Doc, Gallo and Milos signed on the dotted line to play for him. Blake re-upped too. So far, we're a ball movement team, as promised.

By all accounts, LeBron is one of those players that everyone loves playing with. Well, except for Kyrie, but I'm thinking LeBron secretly loves not having to play with that selfish diva anymore.

Regardless, I'm not seeing the comparison here. LeBron uplifts his teammates, CP3 uses his teammates as scapegoats. LeBron takes all the blame and shares the credit, CP3 takes all the credit and deflects the blame.

MartinToVaught wrote:By all accounts, LeBron is one of those players that everyone loves playing with. Well, except for Kyrie, but I'm thinking LeBron secretly loves not having to play with that selfish diva anymore.

Regardless, I'm not seeing the comparison here. LeBron uplifts his teammates, CP3 uses his teammates as scapegoats. LeBron takes all the blame and shares the credit, CP3 takes all the credit and deflects the blame.

I dunno about that.

LeBron James throws teammates under the bus by calling Cavs 'top-heavy'

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-news-top-heavy-roster/1wxgiqfinoas11n3172a1afr7p

Regardless, the real point here is that Chris's best friends all seemed to be on other teams. He was kind of alone here.

MartinToVaught wrote:

esqtvd wrote:Doc might have lost Chris but it was Captain Chris who lost his team, I think. They just didn't like him.

I don't think LeBron's teammates love him all that much--he has the same flinty and sometimes dismissive attitude when you're not up to snuff--but he's the s**t and will always lead you past the second round, unlike the Point God. You can be as big a buttface as your talent allows.

And hey, Kyrie still pulled the plug on another guaranteed return to the Finals.

As for Doc, Gallo and Milos signed on the dotted line to play for him. Blake re-upped too. So far, we're a ball movement team, as promised.

By all accounts, LeBron is one of those players that everyone loves playing with. Well, except for Kyrie, but I'm thinking LeBron secretly loves not having to play with that selfish diva anymore.

Regardless, I'm not seeing the comparison here. LeBron uplifts his teammates, CP3 uses his teammates as scapegoats. LeBron takes all the blame and shares the credit, CP3 takes all the credit and deflects the blame.

Max Kellerman made a similar analogy, but with Kobe instead of Lebron (I'm sure you could say the same with MJ.) They could be tough teammates, but got away with it because they were absolute dominant all-timers with those championships and 6" on Chris Paul. So their teammates may like playing with them for the success, but only tolerate them personally. With Chris Paul you didn't get the same on court success to go along with that personality, so it may have wore thin after a few years of rinse and repeat 2nd round exits.

madmaxmedia wrote:

MartinToVaught wrote:

esqtvd wrote:Doc might have lost Chris but it was Captain Chris who lost his team, I think. They just didn't like him.

I don't think LeBron's teammates love him all that much--he has the same flinty and sometimes dismissive attitude when you're not up to snuff--but he's the s**t and will always lead you past the second round, unlike the Point God. You can be as big a buttface as your talent allows.

And hey, Kyrie still pulled the plug on another guaranteed return to the Finals.

As for Doc, Gallo and Milos signed on the dotted line to play for him. Blake re-upped too. So far, we're a ball movement team, as promised.

By all accounts, LeBron is one of those players that everyone loves playing with. Well, except for Kyrie, but I'm thinking LeBron secretly loves not having to play with that selfish diva anymore.

Regardless, I'm not seeing the comparison here. LeBron uplifts his teammates, CP3 uses his teammates as scapegoats. LeBron takes all the blame and shares the credit, CP3 takes all the credit and deflects the blame.

Max Kellerman made a similar analogy, but with Kobe instead of Lebron (I'm sure you could say the same with MJ.) They could be tough teammates, but got away with it because they were absolute dominant all-timers with those championships and 6" on Chris Paul. So their teammates may like playing with them for the success, but only tolerate them personally. With Chris Paul you didn't get the same on court success to go along with that personality, so it may have wore thin after a few years of rinse and repeat 2nd round exits.

thx for getting the point
it's an equation

I think from a one I was hopeful of the Clippers.

But, Looking at all that happened it is pretty Clear to me

DOC and his son have to go.

Sent these to packing and put around you the best you can around Blake and crew.

Get a young up and coming Coach from the College ranks like how Boston did.

Another big change so far is the quality and amount of shots that DJ gets. DJ is shooting 52% FG, probably a career low. None of the starting guards know how to run a pick and roll and get him baskets consistently. The BG/DJ connection isn't as prominent because the Paul/BG pick and roll that was used to draw the defense and set up the 4v3 for Blake is gone.

Doc needs to address this. DJ shouldn't be getting set up for tough hook shots and with passes at his feet. Lou Williams maybe needs to have more minutes with DJ until Teodosic, a player on the team that knows how to draw the defense and set up a big on the pick and roll comes back.

SGA is probably going to dominate the mid range

TheNewEra wrote:SGA is probably going to dominate the mid range

the right elbow is now available