Blake Griffin traded to Pistons for Avery Bradley, Tobias Harris and Boban Marjanovic

[DCintheD]

congrats on winning this deal guys. didn't like the trade when it happened and hate it even more now. Blake looks very awkward in a pistons jersey.

[og15]

When you guys traded Blake you had nearly the same record with him as without him and a point diff of 0.2 when he was playing. At this point your record is better without him and im not checking it but id bet that your point diff is also better without him. Hes the type of player who gets stats but not wins at this point in his career.

If it's true Jerry West was the push behind dumping him on Van Gundy, that was certainly the rationale.

There are players and there are winners. CP decided that The Beard was a winner and Blake ain't, and history was made.

Well now he's finally got an MVP candidate/high volume scorer to lean on so lets how they look in the post season before crowning his choice to leave LA for Houston

Was it really about who is a winner or not, or was it about getting away from the organization and having the better running mate in Harden over Blake?

I don't think Houston will win it all, but I can concede that the Rockets are better than any version of the Clippers. I mentioned it in the off-season, but the Rockets starting lineup is very similar to what the Clippers had run, except the shooter is switched from SG (Redick) to PF (Anderson) and the star from PF to SG, and Harden is just straight up better than Blake, as much as I would have argued otherwise two or three seasons ago. Then they aren't small at the wing, actually have multiple wing defensive options and have solid depth. It's basically an upgraded version of the Clippers.

So even if they don't win it all, there's no winning argument that Paul would have been better off staying here, so whatever, good choice. While I would love us to match up with them and beat them in the first round (yea, I know), I would also like for Houston to beat GS.

[whitehops]

pistons fan here, just wondering what blake's general energy level was like in LA. i hadn't watched a lot of blake before the trade but since then he doesn't exactly hustle everywhere on the court, he's usually waking the ball up the court slowly and not hustling to get back on defense.

i went on nba.com's player tracking page and saw that he has the 7th slowest average speed in the league and comparable to guys like carmelo anthony, marc gasol, etc.

it's taken some getting used to as a fan because ish smith has the fastest average speed in the league and we have guys like tobias and avery who are near the top for average speed. in the first couple games with blake in detroit i thought he was tired because everyone was looking to push the ball when they could but blake was trying to slow it down every chance he could.

bottom line, is that the way he's always played or should he start running out more as he gets used to the new pace?

[Galloisdaman]

Surprised you guys are still debating Paul and Blake.

[esqtvd]

pistons fan here, just wondering what blake's general energy level was like in LA. i hadn't watched a lot of blake before the trade but since then he doesn't exactly hustle everywhere on the court, he's usually waking the ball up the court slowly and not hustling to get back on defense.

i went on nba.com's player tracking page and saw that he has the 7th slowest average speed in the league and comparable to guys like carmelo anthony, marc gasol, etc.

it's taken some getting used to as a fan because ish smith has the fastest average speed in the league and we have guys like tobias and avery who are near the top for average speed. in the first couple games with blake in detroit i thought he was tired because everyone was looking to push the ball when they could but blake was trying to slow it down every chance he could.

bottom line, is that the way he's always played or should he start running out more as he gets used to the new pace?

I thought he was more of a beast in his early days. He was also a lot more energetic on the boards [12 rpg his rookie season]. Now he looks more like a veteran SF although I'm surprised to hear he's not sprinting out on the break. That part he always liked.

[esqtvd]

Surprised you guys are still debating Paul and Blake.

Golden Ages die hard. We're not a contender anymore. There were a few moments, like destroying Houston and going up 3-1 in the second round while GSW was struggling in their series, when we let ourselves believe we were.

Clippers Take 3-1 Lead With 128-95 Win Sunday

http://www.nba.com/clippers/recap-150510

[Ranma]

Surprised you guys are still debating Paul and Blake.

For some reason, we have a peanut gallery that likes debating the undebatable. It hasn't exactly been a coincidence that the Clippers were at our most efficient offensively while the Point God was here, especially now that he's doing the same thing in Houston.

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

actually the debate seems to be about Blake who left here only a lifetime ago, January 29

whatever CP haters there were, they've STFUed

CP traded Blake and got Harden and won the deal

[Clemenza]

Well, I'll take Harden over Blake. You?

Of course you take Harden over Blake but there were many times CP3 himself needed to score more points as a Clipper

At 6-foot-nothing, Little Big Man can't dominate. That's the whole point. As a mobile 6'10", Blake should.

Harden does. 60 points. If I'm CP, I'd rather play second fiddle to Harden. That was that.

I get all that but I can't elevate CP3 because he finally got to lean/latch onto a MVP candidate and a guy that's down to go for 40 a game. I guess in today's society we do elevate the guy who dumps his old chick for a new hotter girlfriend. And I'm not mad at Paul for the move cause he's stumbled upon a great situation. Let me see if this manifest itself out come playoff time if not CP3 will dump Harder for a newer chick in Lebron James next season

[Vae Victus]

LOL

Imagine LBJ bringing little buddy CP3 along to join the LAL.

Harden in the POs is not the same animal. Once whistles become scarce it just totally takes him out of his game. Should be interesting to watch if CP3 added superstar presence will mean more calls.

[Neddy]

LOL

Imagine LBJ bringing little buddy CP3 along to join the LAL.

Harden in the POs is not the same animal. Once whistles become scarce it just totally takes him out of his game. Should be interesting to watch if CP3 added superstar presence will mean more calls.

not sure if its the PO jitter as much as bogus calls not going his way as often.

[esqtvd]

Of course you take Harden over Blake but there were many times CP3 himself needed to score more points as a Clipper

At 6-foot-nothing, Little Big Man can't dominate. That's the whole point. As a mobile 6'10", Blake should.

Harden does. 60 points. If I'm CP, I'd rather play second fiddle to Harden. That was that.

I get all that but I can't elevate CP3 because he finally got to lean/latch onto a MVP candidate and a guy that's down to go for 40 a game. I guess in today's society we do elevate the guy who dumps his old chick for a new hotter girlfriend. And I'm not mad at Paul for the move cause he's stumbled upon a great situation. Let me see if this manifest itself out come playoff time if not CP3 will dump Harder for a newer chick in Lebron James next season

I think if CP loved his team and mostly, if they loved him back, he'd have been a Clipper to the bitter end. After all, it was "his" team.

But Blake is overpaid dogsh*t, DJ eats too much of the cap, and nobody really liked Chris, who is a pr*ck, let's face it. So ended our Golden Age.

[MartinToVaught]

LOL

Imagine LBJ bringing little buddy CP3 along to join the LAL.

Harden in the POs is not the same animal. Once whistles become scarce it just totally takes him out of his game. Should be interesting to watch if CP3 added superstar presence will mean more calls.

not sure if its the PO jitter as much as bogus calls not going his way as often.

The officiating is definitely a major factor, but he also quits when the going gets tough.

[og15]

All this trade reminds me of is how dumb it is for us as fans to criticize players for lack of "loyalty" and for looking out for themselves first and then just as easily praise and celebrate the FO for trading a player and essentially being disloyal. I've felt this way before, which is why I don't take any criticism of a player being disloyal or doing what is best for them seriously. To do that is just to understand how the league works and to be a smart player.

At 6-foot-nothing, Little Big Man can't dominate. That's the whole point. As a mobile 6'10", Blake should.

Harden does. 60 points. If I'm CP, I'd rather play second fiddle to Harden. That was that.

I get all that but I can't elevate CP3 because he finally got to lean/latch onto a MVP candidate and a guy that's down to go for 40 a game. I guess in today's society we do elevate the guy who dumps his old chick for a new hotter girlfriend. And I'm not mad at Paul for the move cause he's stumbled upon a great situation. Let me see if this manifest itself out come playoff time if not CP3 will dump Harder for a newer chick in Lebron James next season

I think if CP loved his team and mostly, if they loved him back, he'd have been a Clipper to the bitter end. After all, it was "his" team.

But Blake is overpaid dogsh*t, DJ eats too much of the cap, and nobody really liked Chris, who is a pr*ck, let's face it. So ended our Golden Age.

A little bit excessive on the Blake analysis there, man we're quick to turn on guys as soon as they are no longer on the team. What would you say about Austin if the team was to trade him? Just ruthless.

It's not about love, it's about if the team is good enough. Players have their goals: money, winning, a mixture of both, location, etc. Paul wanted to win, and not everyone is Durant who just goes to the previous team that won, but he looked around and found the best possible and realistic situation for him to have a chance to win and went there. That's really all it is. If the Clippers were the best situation, he would have stayed, it had nothing to do with being disliked.

Paul and Crawford are boys, him and DJ are boys now, Mbah followed him to the Rockets, Redick loves his style of leadership according to Redick himself and almost followed him to Houston if not for contract and stability (felt Houston could trade him if they needed to improved b/c they have Gordon). Heck, even freaking Ballmer and Paul were close, so if he wanted love, well he could have just said he wanted to stay without Blake and he could get all his love while not being on a contender. It had nothing to do with being liked or loved or any of that. It was about wanting to win, and if the Clippers looked like the situation that gave him the best chance, he would have stayed. Paul like us knew that the same Clippers roster would not be able to beat GS, and he didn't see what moves the team was going to make that would change that, and that's just being a smart free agent, but all this gushy I want to be loved stuff was not relevant.

Paul has missed games with Houston, and they are still on pace for 63 wins and are fighting for the league's best record. They are 29-3 with Paul/Harden playing, Harden has scored 30+ 19 times, 40+ 8 times and 50+ 4 times, Houston has been one of the best closing teams in the league. Paul's on-court Ortg is 119.8 Ortg, only slightly better than his 118.8 Ortg when on the court with the Clippers last season, but the teams Ortg, when he is off, is 113.2 Ortg. With the Clippers, it was 107.3 Ortg last season, 99.5 Ortg in 15-16 and 98.4 Ortg in 14-15. Those things, that's why he left, not love.

[nickhx2]

so well said

[illastrate]

congrats on winning this deal guys. didn't like the trade when it happened and hate it even more now. Blake looks very awkward in a pistons jersey.

Still early to say who won the trade, but I really like the spacing and playing downhill that the Clippers now have. Opens up the offense. Blake is still a very good player, but SVG needs to play to his strengths.

Also, getting that Pistons 1st doesn't hurt.

pistons fan here, just wondering what blake's general energy level was like in LA. i hadn't watched a lot of blake before the trade but since then he doesn't exactly hustle everywhere on the court, he's usually waking the ball up the court slowly and not hustling to get back on defense.

i went on nba.com's player tracking page and saw that he has the 7th slowest average speed in the league and comparable to guys like carmelo anthony, marc gasol, etc.

it's taken some getting used to as a fan because ish smith has the fastest average speed in the league and we have guys like tobias and avery who are near the top for average speed. in the first couple games with blake in detroit i thought he was tired because everyone was looking to push the ball when they could but blake was trying to slow it down every chance he could.

bottom line, is that the way he's always played or should he start running out more as he gets used to the new pace?

Blake tends to conserve his energy during the season and turns it up a notch during the playoffs. He was allowed that luxury with CP3 running the team. Problem is the Pistons need the playoff version of Blake now to ensure that they get INTO the playoffs.

[esqtvd]

All this trade reminds me of is how dumb it is for us as fans to criticize players for lack of "loyalty" and for looking out for themselves first and then just as easily praise and celebrate the FO for trading a player and essentially being disloyal. I've felt this way before, which is why I don't take any criticism of a player being disloyal or doing what is best for them seriously. To do that is just to understand how the league works and to be a smart player.

I get all that but I can't elevate CP3 because he finally got to lean/latch onto a MVP candidate and a guy that's down to go for 40 a game. I guess in today's society we do elevate the guy who dumps his old chick for a new hotter girlfriend. And I'm not mad at Paul for the move cause he's stumbled upon a great situation. Let me see if this manifest itself out come playoff time if not CP3 will dump Harder for a newer chick in Lebron James next season

I think if CP loved his team and mostly, if they loved him back, he'd have been a Clipper to the bitter end. After all, it was "his" team.

But Blake is overpaid dogsh*t, DJ eats too much of the cap, and nobody really liked Chris, who is a pr*ck, let's face it. So ended our Golden Age.

A little bit excessive on the Blake analysis there, man we're quick to turn on guys as soon as they are no longer on the team. What would you say about Austin if the team was to trade him? Just ruthless.

It's not about love, it's about if the team is good enough. Players have their goals: money, winning, a mixture of both, location, etc. Paul wanted to win, and not everyone is Durant who just goes to the previous team that won, but he looked around and found the best possible and realistic situation for him to have a chance to win and went there. That's really all it is. If the Clippers were the best situation, he would have stayed, it had nothing to do with being disliked.

Paul and Crawford are boys, him and DJ are boys now, Mbah followed him to the Rockets, Redick loves his style of leadership according to Redick himself and almost followed him to Houston if not for contract and stability (felt Houston could trade him if they needed to improved b/c they have Gordon). Heck, even freaking Ballmer and Paul were close, so if he wanted love, well he could have just said he wanted to stay without Blake and he could get all his love while not being on a contender. It had nothing to do with being liked or loved or any of that. It was about wanting to win, and if the Clippers looked like the situation that gave him the best chance, he would have stayed. Paul like us knew that the same Clippers roster would not be able to beat GS, and he didn't see what moves the team was going to make that would change that, and that's just being a smart free agent, but all this gushy I want to be loved stuff was not relevant.

Paul has missed games with Houston, and they are still on pace for 63 wins and are fighting for the league's best record. They are 29-3 with Paul/Harden playing, Harden has scored 30+ 19 times, 40+ 8 times and 50+ 4 times, Houston has been one of the best closing teams in the league. Paul's on-court Ortg is 119.8 Ortg, only slightly better than his 118.8 Ortg when on the court with the Clippers last season, but the teams Ortg, when he is off, is 113.2 Ortg. With the Clippers, it was 107.3 Ortg last season, 99.5 Ortg in 15-16 and 98.4 Ortg in 14-15. Those things, that's why he left, not love.

Well, you're going to have to permit a bit of hyperbole in these things, LOL.

No, Blake isn't dogsh*t, he's a nice player. But he is overpaid now. That's why we let him go. And in the grand scheme of things, DJ making $20M+ probably was a cap buster that prevented us from getting better. Those were intractable structural problems in the roster that CP3 no doubt saw and he decided there was no winning future here.

But CP was also not happy here and din't really have friends on the team. He didn't have a crew and he wasn't part of one.

“I thought the relationships — Blake, DJ, Chris — I thought they were better this past year but it was never great." Their dynamic, it just didn’t work. That’s the bottom line.

“Even though I thought their relationship was much better last year, I really did, I still didn’t think it was a championship relationship. And until you have that, it’s hard to win.”--Doc

So yes, I believe chemistry and friendship [the lack of it] played into it, sure. I think CP wouldn't have gone to chase a ring if there were more keeping him here. [Add in the coach if you must.]

Look, I've always been a CP booster/apologist, a first-ballot HOFer who stands a cut above any other Clipper past or present. In fact, he may have been my favorite athlete in any sport and that goes back to my Philadelphia childhood. [Though I'm sure you'll forgive me if right now it's Nick Foles...]




[ADD: The Eagles' chemistry and friendship is already becoming legendary, BTW. There are many hometown discounts coming, and it would be a surprise if Foles asked out to seek a starting job elsewhere although nobody would blame him.]

[og15]

My point isn't that chemistry and friendship are unimportant, or even that it wasn't a factor, they are and it was to a degree. My point is that friendship wasn't going to keep him on this team based on his desired goals. The deciding factor wasn't friendship, it was how well the team could compete, especially against GS. If the Clippers were seen talent wise as the fav for example, or as the best matchup vs GS and clear 2nd best in the West, Paul would have stayed, whether or not him and Blake are BFF's, they would take the "we'll figure it out because we're that good" approach, but they aren't that good. The Clippers though projected to be a contender, but not a top contender, still not necessarily a top 3 seed even, and a bad matchup vs GS, and it wasn't because of chemistry, it was talent and team makeup issue.

Friendship just can't make up that gap, and as you said, the not seeing eye to eye with the coach anymore gap. If he turned down a ton of guaranteed money to leave, friendship wasn't going to close the gap.

[whitehops]

congrats on winning this deal guys. didn't like the trade when it happened and hate it even more now. Blake looks very awkward in a pistons jersey.

Still early to say who won the trade, but I really like the spacing and playing downhill that the Clippers now have. Opens up the offense. Blake is still a very good player, but SVG needs to play to his strengths.

Also, getting that Pistons 1st doesn't hurt.

you guys are going to love tobias, he's improved to the point where he can score in enough ways to always be a factor. he does have a bit of tunnel vision (he's not selfish) so he'll disappoint if you need him to be a lead scorer/playmaker and his tunnel vision also shows up on defense where he's often late to react to rotations. if he's a secondary/tertiary scorer/playmaker he's great and easy to root for. he's very disciplined to his craft, pretty religious and a good guy overall.

you guys have a solid base for a team, solidifying your guard rotation (besides beverley and williams) and adding another 3/4 type player would help too.

you'll likely have two top-14/16 picks this draft, some cap space to maneuver with and no real albatross contracts. it's a good position to be in for a rebuild/re-tool.

bottom line, is that the way he's always played or should he start running out more as he gets used to the new pace?

Blake tends to conserve his energy during the season and turns it up a notch during the playoffs. He was allowed that luxury with CP3 running the team. Problem is the Pistons need the playoff version of Blake now to ensure that they get INTO the playoffs.

yeah hopefully blake is in "playoff mode" after the all star break because we kind of need him just to make playoffs lol. we're going to rely on him heavily until reggie jackson gets back.

[esqtvd]

My point isn't that chemistry and friendship are unimportant, or even that it wasn't a factor, they are and it was to a degree. My point is that friendship wasn't going to keep him on this team based on his desired goals. The deciding factor wasn't friendship, it was how well the team could compete, especially against GS. If the Clippers were seen talent wise as the fav for example, or as the best matchup vs GS and clear 2nd best in the West, Paul would have stayed, whether or not him and Blake are BFF's, they would take the "we'll figure it out because we're that good" approach, but they aren't that good. The Clippers though projected to be a contender, but not a top contender, still not necessarily a top 3 seed even, and a bad matchup vs GS, and it wasn't because of chemistry, it was talent and team makeup issue.

Friendship just can't make up that gap, and as you said, the not seeing eye to eye with the coach anymore gap. If he turned down a ton of guaranteed money to leave, friendship wasn't going to close the gap.

Subjective, G. As I said, I'm a serious Chris Paul fan, not just as a player but as a person. I think I understand him because I always give my best and I'm a prick towards teammates who don't. It's my virtue and flaw. [I'm in a rock band, the closest thing to a basketball team, LOL. ]


I do believe that if Chris and Blake and DJ were a band of brothers--forget all the rest--Chris would have gone down with the ship and died a Clipper. I would have. I do not for a minute believe Chris just went ring-chasing. This was his team. Leading the Clippers to just one title would have been a far greater glory than winning one in Houston as The Beard's right-hand man.

But it was surprisingly easy for CP to walk away. As Doc said, this was no Band of Brothers and as Jerry West said, it was not going to happen here with CP-BG-DJ. This became obvious to anyone who knows basketball.


So Chris left, Jerry dumped Blake...and as for DJ?