What's a reason to keep faith in this organization?

[esqtvd]

there are only 15 top-15 players

and 30 teams

[illastrate]

I just don't understand why you trade him when we've been playing good basketball of late. Trade DJ or Lou, fine, but not Blake. Unless LeBron and PG are both coming next year, this makes no sense. Even then, who will be on the team with those 2, to put us over the top?

Because Blake is the only one who net an actual return. As you've seen, teams are lowballing for DJ and Lou because they're both expiring. I believe the Clips traded Blake because he was their best chance at a proper rebuild. They probably re-signed him in the offseason to retain a trade chip for this very purpose. They knew the contract itself was an overpay for an oft-injured star, so might as well sell while he still has value. It was cold, but it's the way of the NBA world these days.

[QRich3]

there are only 15 top-15 players

and 30 teams

And some teams have 2-3 of those, so do the math.

[mkwest]

Jerry West explains Chris Paul, Blake Griffin trades and praises Clippers coach Doc Rivers

Clearly, change was in order, according to West.

“This was not a championship-caliber team,” he said. “Chris Paul, a tremendous player. chose to leave here (and the Clippers granted his trade request by sending him to the Houston Rockets in a multi-player deal), and when it happens, it opens up everyone’s eyes, OK?

“What can we do to make us better? Or, what can we do to make us more sustainable?”

It also enables the Clippers to go on a free-agent spending spree in the summer of 2019, a stellar class that could include Jimmy Butler of the Minnesota Timberwolves, Kawhi Leonard of the San Antonio Spurs and Klay Thompson of the Golden State Warriors.

“Anything you do in life you need the flexibility and, certainly, this trade gives us flexibility,” West said of sending Griffin, Brice Johnson and Willie Reed to the Pistons in exchange for Avery Bradley, Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanovic and two draft picks in June.

Of the picks, West said, “I’ve always felt that drafting is the life blood of any organization.”

“He’s done one of the best coaching jobs I have ever seen, ever seen,” West said, repeating himself for emphasis. “We have had so many injuries, it was amazing. When we came out of training camp, this team was really going to surprise people. It was going to win a lot of games.

“Pretty soon, you look around, and it looked like a hospital ward. The job he’s done to keep these guys playing has been fantastic. … You could look at him and say, ‘You know, this guy might be a candidate for Coach of the Year.’ He’s done a great job.”

Elliott Teaford, LA Daily News

[wassuphomeboy]

Jerry West explains Chris Paul, Blake Griffin trades and praises Clippers coach Doc Rivers

Clearly, change was in order, according to West.

“This was not a championship-caliber team,” he said. “Chris Paul, a tremendous player. chose to leave here (and the Clippers granted his trade request by sending him to the Houston Rockets in a multi-player deal), and when it happens, it opens up everyone’s eyes, OK?

“What can we do to make us better? Or, what can we do to make us more sustainable?”

It also enables the Clippers to go on a free-agent spending spree in the summer of 2019, a stellar class that could include Jimmy Butler of the Minnesota Timberwolves, Kawhi Leonard of the San Antonio Spurs and Klay Thompson of the Golden State Warriors.

“Anything you do in life you need the flexibility and, certainly, this trade gives us flexibility,” West said of sending Griffin, Brice Johnson and Willie Reed to the Pistons in exchange for Avery Bradley, Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanovic and two draft picks in June.

Of the picks, West said, “I’ve always felt that drafting is the life blood of any organization.”

“He’s done one of the best coaching jobs I have ever seen, ever seen,” West said, repeating himself for emphasis. “We have had so many injuries, it was amazing. When we came out of training camp, this team was really going to surprise people. It was going to win a lot of games.

“Pretty soon, you look around, and it looked like a hospital ward. The job he’s done to keep these guys playing has been fantastic. … You could look at him and say, ‘You know, this guy might be a candidate for Coach of the Year.’ He’s done a great job.”

Elliott Teaford, LA Daily News

Really not compelling enough of an argument for me, especially given how wide-open the NBA has turned out to be this year.

I feel the whole "nobody can beat Golden State" thing is an opinion, not a fact. It may or may not actually be true, even if it's a widely held opinion, and the only way to prove it either way is to play the games on the court. It certainly shouldn't have shaped the Clippers' roadmap going forward to this degree. Given how the team CP3 was traded to has already beaten them two out of three times, and they have looked similarly vulnerable to teams such as OKC and Boston, teams that the Clippers routinely beat with CP3, I don't see why keeping CP3(and Blake) wouldn't have kept the Clippers at or near the top of the standings, like they have always been during his tenure.

And if West truly believes that any team with CP3 (a top 10 player all-time by PER and Playoff PER) on it isn't "championship caliber", maybe he isn't the talent evaluator people think he is anymore, which just raises more questions moving forward with the upcoming draft/free agency/etc.

Even with cap space in 2019, I don't see how Klay/Kawhi/Jimmy moves the needle enough to make them a contender(that's not even getting started about the credibility gap trading Blake/CP3 brought), or even brings them back to the level of the CP3-led Clippers, in which case, it begs the question why this "rebuild/retool" took place in the 1st place.

Or, maybe it hasn't anything to do with Jerry and the "sustainable" part just means Ballmer is bored, in which case his primary focus is to sell tickets in LA, either with or without building an actual contender.

In either case, none of this sounds any different from your garden-variety organizational press release trying to convince season ticket holders to renew.

[Quake Griffin]

In addition, West spoke to Shuster about Clippers owner Steve Ballmer’s vision for the franchise’s future, saying, “If you’ve been as successful in life as he has, he doesn’t want something mediocre. He he wants something special, and that’s the assignment this front office has been given.”


Feels good to have an owner that will not settle for less or make excuses about why less is ok.

Looks like he wants a ring, not just a pretty good team. Big picture, I’m on board.





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[MartinToVaught]

"Nobody can beat Golden State" is as close to fact as it gets. Of course they're not going to go undefeated in the regular season, so losses are going to happen there every year. But it literally took miracles for them to lose one playoff game with this roster. And nothing's changed since then - Durant's still there, with the 73-win roster that already won a ring without him.

And no team with CP3 on it has ever proven to be WCF caliber yet, let alone championship caliber.

[wassuphomeboy]

It's an unproven conjecture. Nobody knows for sure until the playoffs start. And just going by the eye test and matchups this year so far, there's still everything to play for. Even if there isn't, I don't see how blowing up a sure thing for an uncertain chance at, maybe, things getting back to the way they were, with many things that could go wrong along the way. For example, the Magic haven't even sniffed the playoffs since they traded Dwight.

And to me, the Warriors are highly beatable, especially in a playoff situation where halfcourt execution becomes a premium. The Spurs had them down 30 at home before the whole Kawhi incident last year. Even if no one necessarily beats them THIS year, even coming close might just take one trade or free agent acquisition to put them over the top.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, the CP3 trade was a catalyst for the Blake trade, as the subsequent decrease in wins (it may have happened if Blake was traded 1st too, to be fair) gave the front office an easy way out.

In any case, I am not going to pit them against each other even if everyone else wants to, as obviously there are no winners having both, or even one of them gone, except maybe the owner's bottom line. I feel this isn't the kind of thing that happens to competent franchises.

[QRich3]

It's true they also seemed unbeatable in 2016 and they not only lost the finals but just got there by a hair. And I always like to remind people how before Golden State, teams were using Lebron's Heat supposedly winning the chip for many many years as a reason to rebuild. There's always gonna be a good team that you want to avoid, and if you keep rebuilding to avoid them you'll never be the next one.

BUT, it is also true that this current version of the Warriors might be the best team relative to its peers that I have ever seen, taking into account talent and fit. I just don't see a way someone gets to beat them 4 times, not just this year but the next few, even if Lebron joins Paul and Harden or something like that.

[Quake Griffin]

The Warriors are the only team in the west that would have beaten a Blake led Clipper team in a 7 game series now?

Ok.


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[Galloisdaman]

I do not view the Warriors as unbeatable. They are good but they have some flaws. Just going to take the right team to step up and then some people might say that team is unbeatable as well.

[Neddy]

BUT, it is also true that this current version of the Warriors might be the best team relative to its peers that I have ever seen

90s Bulls? you are old enough to have seen them, no? there were a ton of great teams around back then. Lakers/Celtics were still good with Bulls' first trophy, then Pistons, Blazers, Knicks, Jazz, Pacers, Kevin Johnson ran Suns, Orlando Magic after drafting Shaq and Penny, and most importantly, rules were different back then. it was a much, much tougher league physically. the Warriors today if played the Bulls in the 90's era with its rules, I can't see them physically able to hold ground. one punch of Bill Laimbeer and Durant will be done for. John Stockton used to sneak his foot under the landing jump shooter. Curry's ankles would have been shattered beyond repair.

[Popovich]

Keep faith because your team is one of the richest in the league and organization adopted new strategy, now they are making move for someone specially great, I think Lebron James is coming.

[QRich3]

BUT, it is also true that this current version of the Warriors might be the best team relative to its peers that I have ever seen

90s Bulls? you are old enough to have seen them, no? there were a ton of great teams around back then. Lakers/Celtics were still good with Bulls' first trophy, then Pistons, Blazers, Knicks, Jazz, Pacers, Kevin Johnson ran Suns, Orlando Magic after drafting Shaq and Penny, and most importantly, rules were different back then. it was a much, much tougher league physically. the Warriors today if played the Bulls in the 90's era with its rules, I can't see them physically able to hold ground. one punch of Bill Laimbeer and Durant will be done for. John Stockton used to sneak his foot under the landing jump shooter. Curry's ankles would have been shattered beyond repair.

Only the second three-peat, and I was way too young to understand the nuances of the game, but I still think they were not as good in comparison to the rest of the league at the time. I mean, that there was not as much separation from the rest as there is now. They had tough playoff series every year, while with this Warriors team you get the feeling that once they put their foot to the pedal there's just nothing any team can do.

[og15]

Jerry West explains Chris Paul, Blake Griffin trades and praises Clippers coach Doc Rivers







Elliott Teaford, LA Daily News

Really not compelling enough of an argument for me, especially given how wide-open the NBA has turned out to be this year.

I feel the whole "nobody can beat Golden State" thing is an opinion, not a fact. It may or may not actually be true, even if it's a widely held opinion, and the only way to prove it either way is to play the games on the court. It certainly shouldn't have shaped the Clippers' roadmap going forward to this degree. Given how the team CP3 was traded to has already beaten them two out of three times, and they have looked similarly vulnerable to teams such as OKC and Boston, teams that the Clippers routinely beat with CP3, I don't see why keeping CP3(and Blake) wouldn't have kept the Clippers at or near the top of the standings, like they have always been during his tenure.

And if West truly believes that any team with CP3 (a top 10 player all-time by PER and Playoff PER) on it isn't "championship caliber", maybe he isn't the talent evaluator people think he is anymore, which just raises more questions moving forward with the upcoming draft/free agency/etc.

Even with cap space in 2019, I don't see how Klay/Kawhi/Jimmy moves the needle enough to make them a contender(that's not even getting started about the credibility gap trading Blake/CP3 brought), or even brings them back to the level of the CP3-led Clippers, in which case, it begs the question why this "rebuild/retool" took place in the 1st place.

Or, maybe it hasn't anything to do with Jerry and the "sustainable" part just means Ballmer is bored, in which case his primary focus is to sell tickets in LA, either with or without building an actual contender.

In either case, none of this sounds any different from your garden-variety organizational press release trying to convince season ticket holders to renew.

We've talked about this so many times, but it's like you keep putting your head in the sand about it. West, Ballmer, Frank, none of them were trying to chase Paul put the door, Paul CHOSE to leave as he was able to. Every time West has talked about Paul, it's in a way that suggests that he did not want him to leave, and he was part of the reason he came to help build a contender on the Clippers. Your whole plan is that the Clippers should have tried to stranglehold a player to staying on a team he didn't want to be on, and that would now produce a championship level team? I don't understand how something some clear keeps getting ignored by you, it's like the 20th time you've made it seem like it was the Clippers choice for Paul to leave. It wasn't, so you need to stop these posts.

[nickhx2]

get him

[wassuphomeboy]

Really not compelling enough of an argument for me, especially given how wide-open the NBA has turned out to be this year.

I feel the whole "nobody can beat Golden State" thing is an opinion, not a fact. It may or may not actually be true, even if it's a widely held opinion, and the only way to prove it either way is to play the games on the court. It certainly shouldn't have shaped the Clippers' roadmap going forward to this degree. Given how the team CP3 was traded to has already beaten them two out of three times, and they have looked similarly vulnerable to teams such as OKC and Boston, teams that the Clippers routinely beat with CP3, I don't see why keeping CP3(and Blake) wouldn't have kept the Clippers at or near the top of the standings, like they have always been during his tenure.

And if West truly believes that any team with CP3 (a top 10 player all-time by PER and Playoff PER) on it isn't "championship caliber", maybe he isn't the talent evaluator people think he is anymore, which just raises more questions moving forward with the upcoming draft/free agency/etc.

Even with cap space in 2019, I don't see how Klay/Kawhi/Jimmy moves the needle enough to make them a contender(that's not even getting started about the credibility gap trading Blake/CP3 brought), or even brings them back to the level of the CP3-led Clippers, in which case, it begs the question why this "rebuild/retool" took place in the 1st place.

Or, maybe it hasn't anything to do with Jerry and the "sustainable" part just means Ballmer is bored, in which case his primary focus is to sell tickets in LA, either with or without building an actual contender.

In either case, none of this sounds any different from your garden-variety organizational press release trying to convince season ticket holders to renew.

We've talked about this so many times, but it's like you keep putting your head in the sand about it. West, Ballmer, Frank, none of them were trying to chase Paul put the door, Paul CHOSE to leave as he was able to. Every time West has talked about Paul, it's in a way that suggests that he did not want him to leave, and he was part of the reason he came to help build a contender on the Clippers. Your whole plan is that the Clippers should have tried to stranglehold a player to staying on a team he didn't want to be on, and that would now produce a championship level team? I don't understand how something some clear keeps getting ignored by you, it's like the 20th time you've made it seem like it was the Clippers choice for Paul to leave. It wasn't, so you need to stop these posts.

I really don't want to keep saying it more than you guys want to hear it obviously, but the fact is that CP3 was never offered the 5 year max by the Clippers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19758509/la-clippers-trade-chris-paul-houston-rockets
https://clipperholics.com/2017/06/29/la-clippers-never-offered-chris-paul-full-five-year-max-contract/

The Clippers had not committed to give Paul, 32, the full five-year max contract of $201 million, league sources told ESPN's Ramona Shelburne.

I don't know whether that was the reason he left, but it certainly could have helped change his mind. If offering a 5 year deal is a "stranglehold", then every team that offers their franchise superstar a max deal is "strangleholding" them (keep in mind, the player in question still has the right to sign or not sign the deal, hence the term free agency). If they at least tried to give him the max and he wanted to leave anyway, then what you are saying would be correct and they would have done everything possible to keep him. I wouldn't need to keep saying it if people at least acknowledged this, even if they don't necessarily agree with it.

Combine this fact with that quote from Jerry that the Clippers are aiming to be more "sustainable", and it is quite evident to me that Ballmer is starting to bore of the hype in the same way he got excited in the 1st place and is going to cut back from now on. My opinion is that it's a penny wise, pound foolish move, and a Clippers superteam will more than recoup his admittedly significant investment in the team, but that's just IMHO of course.

Also, when I'm saying the team could have done more to keep him, I was more talking about his entire six year tenure with the Clippers. CP3 did agreed to the deal from the Hornets to the Clippers in 2011, so there was obviously something that he liked about us. I am trying to find out when and where exactly he soured on the franchise, and whether there was anything that could be done to prevent it, both for now and the future.

In almost every trade deadline prior to CP3 asking out, the Clippers stood pat, when a move could have easily put them over the top(especially the rumored Melo trade). It's easy to say CP3 had his mind made up to leave AFTER his departure, when nobody was saying that BEFORE he asked out. At worst, the situation was that he was considering all options in free agency, such as the Spurs, but ALSO the Clippers. It was hardly a cut and dry deal like PG wanting out from the Pacers last year.

In the end, it's just basketball, so I'll do my best to spare everyone's feelings on this matter from now on. I'm not going to pretend it isn't difficult to accept out-of-the-box takes and I certainly could have worded them in a more civil manner.

In any case, I'm losing interest in NBA as a hobby anyway, but it's probably a sign. Enjoy your fandom of the team (I mean this sincerely)

[og15]

Ramona's suggestion was later disproven when Ballmer himself confirmed that they were offering Paul his max, there's a whole interview with it straight from the horses mouth. Ramona was likely going off someone saying that the Clippers were contemplating offering Chris the full max, which they were weighing the positives and negatives, and with him deciding to leave she assumed like many others that "well, they must have said no", but that was not accurate.

https://www.acast.com/theverticalpodcastwithwoj/los-angeles-clippers-owner-steve-ballmer

Go to 6:20 in the podcast, or listen to all of it if you want, but there's your answer as to what they were offering contract wise. Doc also confirmed this.

In addition to that, Paul himself confirmed through his free agency movie that it was not a money based decision.

[mkwest]

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[mkwest]

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