The Board Man Cometh!! Kawhi Leonard Signs 3 Year (2+1), $103 Million Deal

[playaloc916]

With PG, it seems like he's had freak injuries and can still return to form next season, while Kawhi is just slowly deteriorating. As already pointed out, the blueprint was to load manage him for most of the regular season, and then unleash him during the playoffs.

The issue is that the ACL injury robbed Kawhi of two playoffs, and this latest injury doesn't look promising at all. Any time he gets bumped while driving, I'm holding my breath... The lack of communication would be alright if he's available. But the lack of availability plus the lack of communication... If he was the second or third option, that changes things. But as a first option, rolling the dice on his health after 4-5 years with the team already, I personally would cut my losses.

I'd look to move Kawhi before PG. Get some youth, shed some salary, and maybe get some some picks. If he suddenly becomes healthy and leads his next team to a championship, so be it. I just don't see it happening with the current team anymore.

[esqtvd]

With PG, it seems like he's had freak injuries and can still return to form next season, while Kawhi is just slowly deteriorating. As already pointed out, the blueprint was to load manage him for most of the regular season, and then unleash him during the playoffs.

The issue is that the ACL injury robbed Kawhi of two playoffs, and this latest injury doesn't look promising at all. Any time he gets bumped while driving, I'm holding my breath... The lack of communication would be alright if he's available. But the lack of availability plus the lack of communication... If he was the second or third option, that changes things. But as a first option, rolling the dice on his health after 4-5 years with the team already, I personally would cut my losses.

I'd look to move Kawhi before PG. Get some youth, shed some salary, and maybe get some some picks. If he suddenly becomes healthy and leads his next team to a championship, so be it. I just don't see it happening with the current team anymore.

Part of the fun is growing your core into a perennial contender. Kawhi may win another ring but two seems beyond reason with LAC. Toronto enjoyed their ring I'm sure, but the taste of ashes immediately followed.

Entering YEAR FIVE, 213 is now a one-way ticket. I'm not down on either of them but I can't be up either.

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[Cyclips]

Entering YEAR FIVE, 213 is now a one-way ticket. I'm not down on either of them but I can't be up either.

Well said. It's hard to feel good about where the team is headed right now, but at the same time there is so much potential if these guys can stay on the floor. That's seems too big of an IF though.

[esqtvd]

MOVED FROM GAME THREAD

It wasn't a plan. It just sort of happened. The Kawhi thing dragged on after he named his price--get another superstar or I ain't coming.

Ballmer had set his sights on Kawhi and there was no Plan B. Basically they handed Kawhi the gun to hold them up with.

Well you're moving the goal posts here a bit. First you say there was no plan at all, now you say there was no Plan B. First of all we don't know if there was a Plan B or not, I'd certainly hope so. Second, Plan A came to fruition so any Plan B became irrelevant.

I'm as disappointed as any about what has happened since the KL/PG signings, but at the time I was all in and it was widely considered a brilliant move by the team (yet of course risky when you mortgage your future like that). Plenty of teams hitch their boat to a couple of stars, LAC unfortunately are one that hasn't worked out so well. I can't fault team Ballmer for taking that shot. At least we are not Dallas!

Taking a shot is not a plan. Some believe Kawhi would have come anyway; others believe it went through by the skin of our teeth.

as late as noon on the day of the trade, the Clippers were out of the running, and Leonard was picking between the Lakers and Raptors. Then the Paul George trade was back on at 4:00 p.m., then it fell through again at 5:00 p.m., and by 6:00 p.m. a dejected Rivers was pulling up to a Nobu in Malibu assuming all was lost.

As ESPN reported back in July, Leonard had spent the week “meeting, calling and texting with George, trying to convince him to find a way out of Oklahoma City.” To hear Rivers retell it here, OKC was already planning to blow it up and other teams were aware of that intent, which might have eased the recruitment.

As appealing as the whole Keyser Söze image was, this vision of Leonard is working for me too: You showed me some guys, so I pointed to one guy, now you guys go figure that out how to get that guy while I leave the whole basketball universe in stasis. Yeah, that’s definitely Kawhi Leonard.

https://deadspin.com/the-clippers-showed-kawhi-leonard-a-list-of-guys-then-1838260876

Basically, Kawhi called the tune; Ballmer and the Clips had to dance to it. My point here is mostly that they put the org's future in the hands of a very enigmatic guy who is really not much of a leader or a company man either. Kawhi's only loyalty is to himself. I don't fault him for that--it's a business and an athlete's physical health is a ticking clock. But we're talking about a guy who lets the team know he's not playing at 3 PM on game day, a guy who took himself out at halftime without even telling the coach.

Jimmy Butler is not built that way. I think that was Ballmer's mistake, not putting character first, only ability. And also frankly, the org got lucky that PG screwed his head back on straight after humiliating himself on and off the court as Pandemic P. I give him a lot of credit for coming back in the next season as a leader and a better player. But it could have gone either way.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/pandemic-p-playoff-p-why-paul-george-become-easiest-player-target-nba

Ballmer came in shrieking "HARDCORE! HARDCORE!" Jimmy Butler is hardcore. Kawhi [and PG] are not.

[playaloc916]

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It sucks that Kawhi keeps getting hurt, but it doesn't seem like it's going to get any better. We need players that can suit up. To have both players out... With Russ and Norm, the team almost beat a fully healthy Suns. Imagine if the team had a Tobias Harris, or another solid but unremarkable player? Might have won that game...

And PG might be right. The Clippers time might come, but Kawhi might not be a member of the team when it does...

[Quake Griffin]

MOVED FROM GAME THREAD

It wasn't a plan. It just sort of happened. The Kawhi thing dragged on after he named his price--get another superstar or I ain't coming.

Ballmer had set his sights on Kawhi and there was no Plan B. Basically they handed Kawhi the gun to hold them up with.

Well you're moving the goal posts here a bit. First you say there was no plan at all, now you say there was no Plan B. First of all we don't know if there was a Plan B or not, I'd certainly hope so. Second, Plan A came to fruition so any Plan B became irrelevant.

I'm as disappointed as any about what has happened since the KL/PG signings, but at the time I was all in and it was widely considered a brilliant move by the team (yet of course risky when you mortgage your future like that). Plenty of teams hitch their boat to a couple of stars, LAC unfortunately are one that hasn't worked out so well. I can't fault team Ballmer for taking that shot. At least we are not Dallas!

Taking a shot is not a plan. Some believe Kawhi would have come anyway; others believe it went through by the skin of our teeth.

as late as noon on the day of the trade, the Clippers were out of the running, and Leonard was picking between the Lakers and Raptors. Then the Paul George trade was back on at 4:00 p.m., then it fell through again at 5:00 p.m., and by 6:00 p.m. a dejected Rivers was pulling up to a Nobu in Malibu assuming all was lost.

As ESPN reported back in July, Leonard had spent the week “meeting, calling and texting with George, trying to convince him to find a way out of Oklahoma City.” To hear Rivers retell it here, OKC was already planning to blow it up and other teams were aware of that intent, which might have eased the recruitment.

As appealing as the whole Keyser Söze image was, this vision of Leonard is working for me too: You showed me some guys, so I pointed to one guy, now you guys go figure that out how to get that guy while I leave the whole basketball universe in stasis. Yeah, that’s definitely Kawhi Leonard.

https://deadspin.com/the-clippers-showed-kawhi-leonard-a-list-of-guys-then-1838260876

Basically, Kawhi called the tune; Ballmer and the Clips had to dance to it. My point here is mostly that they put the org's future in the hands of a very enigmatic guy who is really not much of a leader or a company man either. Kawhi's only loyalty is to himself. I don't fault him for that--it's a business and an athlete's physical health is a ticking clock. But we're talking about a guy who lets the team know he's not playing at 3 PM on game day, a guy who took himself out at halftime without even telling the coach.

Jimmy Butler is not built that way. I think that was Ballmer's mistake, not putting character first, only ability. And also frankly, the org got lucky that PG screwed his head back on straight after humiliating himself on and off the court as Pandemic P. I give him a lot of credit for coming back in the next season as a leader and a better player. But it could have gone either way.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/pandemic-p-playoff-p-why-paul-george-become-easiest-player-target-nba

Ballmer came in shrieking "HARDCORE! HARDCORE!" Jimmy Butler is hardcore. Kawhi [and PG] are not.

And you supported this every step of the way at the time. You were quite loud about it as well.


Lmao.

[esqtvd]

MOVED FROM GAME THREAD

Well you're moving the goal posts here a bit. First you say there was no plan at all, now you say there was no Plan B. First of all we don't know if there was a Plan B or not, I'd certainly hope so. Second, Plan A came to fruition so any Plan B became irrelevant.

I'm as disappointed as any about what has happened since the KL/PG signings, but at the time I was all in and it was widely considered a brilliant move by the team (yet of course risky when you mortgage your future like that). Plenty of teams hitch their boat to a couple of stars, LAC unfortunately are one that hasn't worked out so well. I can't fault team Ballmer for taking that shot. At least we are not Dallas!

Taking a shot is not a plan. Some believe Kawhi would have come anyway; others believe it went through by the skin of our teeth.

as late as noon on the day of the trade, the Clippers were out of the running, and Leonard was picking between the Lakers and Raptors. Then the Paul George trade was back on at 4:00 p.m., then it fell through again at 5:00 p.m., and by 6:00 p.m. a dejected Rivers was pulling up to a Nobu in Malibu assuming all was lost.

As ESPN reported back in July, Leonard had spent the week “meeting, calling and texting with George, trying to convince him to find a way out of Oklahoma City.” To hear Rivers retell it here, OKC was already planning to blow it up and other teams were aware of that intent, which might have eased the recruitment.

As appealing as the whole Keyser Söze image was, this vision of Leonard is working for me too: You showed me some guys, so I pointed to one guy, now you guys go figure that out how to get that guy while I leave the whole basketball universe in stasis. Yeah, that’s definitely Kawhi Leonard.

https://deadspin.com/the-clippers-showed-kawhi-leonard-a-list-of-guys-then-1838260876

Basically, Kawhi called the tune; Ballmer and the Clips had to dance to it. My point here is mostly that they put the org's future in the hands of a very enigmatic guy who is really not much of a leader or a company man either. Kawhi's only loyalty is to himself. I don't fault him for that--it's a business and an athlete's physical health is a ticking clock. But we're talking about a guy who lets the team know he's not playing at 3 PM on game day, a guy who took himself out at halftime without even telling the coach.

Jimmy Butler is not built that way. I think that was Ballmer's mistake, not putting character first, only ability. And also frankly, the org got lucky that PG screwed his head back on straight after humiliating himself on and off the court as Pandemic P. I give him a lot of credit for coming back in the next season as a leader and a better player. But it could have gone either way.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/pandemic-p-playoff-p-why-paul-george-become-easiest-player-target-nba

Ballmer came in shrieking "HARDCORE! HARDCORE!" Jimmy Butler is hardcore. Kawhi [and PG] are not.

And you supported this every step of the way at the time. You were quite loud about it as well.


Lmao.

Oh I'm not going to poke through the old threads, tough guy. But I support my team every step of the way regardless. I do remember being bummed that Jimmy Butler got swept off the market by Miami--I follow the Sixers and was very impressed by his tenure there. And I do remember being one of the very few who didn't give up on Kawhi signing here as his circus wound down and was right about that too.

In retrospect, it's on Ballmer that he did not recruit for character. It's his millions, not mine. I have and had no idea what these guys are made of. Do you remember when Ballmer threw god-knows-how-much at a Sports Illustrated writer named Lee Jenkins to become the "Executive Director of Research & Identity"?

https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/why-did-an-nba-team-offer-a-vague-new-job-to-a-popular-writer-of-profiles-and-why-did-he-take-it

He was supposed to know all the inside and background dirt on these guys that we can't know from the outside.


Please don't judge me by your standards. It's not about I-told-you-so. I find organizational politics interesting and made a lot of money unraveling them for a living. Most of my guesses have turned out to be true. Ballmer has not recruited for character and that's why we're where we are now. From the time he dumped Blake Griffin so unceremoniously I was raising red flags. As I said, after Steve Ballmer gives you a handjob you better count your balls.

I do expect Ty or L-Frank to take the fall for this. Maybe both. Can't fire the owner lol

[esqtvd]

lol

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[MartinToVaught]

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The lack of transparency on injuries until the season's over is infuriating and disrespectful to the fans. This team actually had the nerve to pretend that a torn meniscus was a "day to day" injury.

[donemilio21]

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The lack of transparency on injuries until the season's over is infuriating and disrespectful to the fans. This team actually had the nerve to pretend that a torn meniscus was a "day to day" injury.

Yep. That's why I'm calling for firing of the entire FO and most of the coaching staff.

[donemilio21]

I said this before game 3.

Here are the announcement from Clippers FO we can look forward to:
- today: Kawhi is out for game 3 and is day to day.
Saturday: Kawhi is out for reminder of first round
1st of May: Kawhi is out indefinitely
September: Kawhi had a successful surgery on his right knee in July, we are just letting you know now. Out 3 to 12 months.

[clipperlover]

lol

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Here is the start to that entire thread:

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If true, there was some serious dysfunction.

Here is a thread from the other day:

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?cxt=HHwWjMDRycqe4-UtAAAA

[madmaxmedia]

lol

Spoiler:

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I am too unknowledgeable to know how much of it to believe, but I don't disbelieve it either.

A decent amount is Monday morning QB'ing- Mook + 'assets' for Conley sounds great, except who knows what 'assets' would be required. None of us wanted Mook to stay, apparently himself least of all. Conley is essentially an expiring with only $1.5M guaranteed next year, Mook is fully guaranteed. So that trade would have cost us for sure.

The most damning parts though have nothing to do with completed or uncompleted trades...

[esqtvd]

lol

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Here is the start to that entire thread:

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If true, there was some serious dysfunction.

Here is a thread from the other day:

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?cxt=HHwWjMDRycqe4-UtAAAA

This fellow heard echoes of real things happening but his guesses of what they mean are questionable. As Madmaxmedia notes, there would have been a lot more to a Conley-for-Morris trade than straight up. Morris had negative trade value--it would have cost a FRP or a player like Mann or at least a prospect like Boston.

Cancun Content notes elsewhere that a lot of guys played hurt and were not respected for it, Reggie especially. Maybe he did throw a tantrum at being so unceremoniously benched, but he worked himself back into the rotation as the backup point guard and was a plus.

I did a stat workup of the difference between Hartenstein at the backup 5 vs the dreck we rolled out there until Reggie was dumped for Plumlee. It was beyond a doubt a huge mistake that they should have corrected much earlier. I don't think Ty was in love with small ball at all--he had no choice.

If you recall, Jovan Buha revealed a lot of stuff like this after the first Kawhi-PG season, like kicking the female staffers out of an adjoining room so they could have their own private locker room. Buha got banished for telling the truth.

"Players like Patrick Beverley, Montrezl Harrell and Lou Williams—Clippers bedrocks before the arrival of Leonard and George—bristled when Leonard was permitted to take games off to manage his body and to live in San Diego, which often led to him being late for team flights, league sources said. The team also allowed Leonard to dictate to Doc Rivers when he could be pulled from games, among other things. Tyronn Lue was on Rivers' bench for all of this, but the Clippers were Rivers' show."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2913742-report-some-clippers-bristled-at-kawhi-missing-games-being-late-for-flights


Same deal, different year. This is not run like a normal team or a normal org. Worse than I thought. And I do expect somebody to take the fall. Again . Can't fire the owner. Hardcore, indeed. Hardcore.

[og15]

lol

Spoiler:

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I am too unknowledgeable to know how much of it to believe, but I don't disbelieve it either.

A decent amount is Monday morning QB'ing- Mook + 'assets' for Conley sounds great, except who knows what 'assets' would be required. None of us wanted Mook to stay, apparently himself least of all. Conley is essentially an expiring with only $1.5M guaranteed next year, Mook is fully guaranteed. So that trade would have cost us for sure.

The most damning parts though have nothing to do with completed or uncompleted trades...

Any + assets for an older player with not the best injury history is risky. Mook was not good, but if Conley was traded for and dissappointed, and the + assets something that would make people annoyed, it would be another thing to criticize.

Of course the benefit of Wall was that he was a FA and didn't require +assets to acquire.

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?t=PQ-67ULpaQz1s5fVSAHqKA&s=19

Perception is not always reality, but maybe it is, hard to know.

Spoiler:

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?t=80b4JCARxJ-fYWfxUZBpWw&s=19

Suggesting Lue was throwing the season when the team was constantly battling and fighting, that's just conjecture, guy has nothing to back up that assertion except for, "there was some conflict and I didn't like the lineups".

[MartinToVaught]

Saying Lue "threw the season on purpose" is dramatic and sensationalized, but it isn't debatable that he put behind-the-scenes politics with Morris ahead of what's best for the team. The results speak for themselves. And we don't really need a reporter to tell us that Lue was being petty about it, either. The things he'd say in press conferences all season and the way he treated RoCo already made that crystal clear.

Words can't express how tired I am of always having bad stubborn coaches who'd rather lose while doing things their way than win by admitting when they're wrong.

[wco81]

What is 213 and 310? Area codes of the old and new arenas?

No point in rehashing the sigNings now. A lot of teams wanted KL that summer.

I don’t recall any criticisms of the signings. Ballmer, who had come under criticism during his tenure at MS, was seen as bold, a big force.

[esqtvd]

What is 213 and 310? Area codes of the old and new arenas?

No point in rehashing the sigNings now. A lot of teams wanted KL that summer.

I don’t recall any criticisms of the signings. Ballmer, who had come under criticism during his tenure at MS, was seen as bold, a big force.

Well, it's instructive in trying to divine what Ballmer will do next. So far it looks like he's going to run it back for Year FIVE

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although I still expect a scapegoat to be found, Ty or Frank. That's his pattern so far.


And the more I look at the new CBA [which appears expressly designed to screw him and GSW], Ballmer doesn't have a lot of other options short of a teardown.

I WAS disappointed at the time that we slept and Miami swept in on Jimmy Butler, but that water was under the bridge so quickly there wasn't much time to cry about it. But we could have had Jimmy for free instead of the king's ransom we dropped on PG. And frankly, the red flags on Kawhi's attitude and behavior dating back to his Spurs days have indeed come home to roost. Kawhi Leonard is NOT a company man. It will surprise me not one iota if he bugs out next summer.

[wco81]

Zach Lowe with Howard Beck and Bobby Marks said Clippers can't give these guys extensions. They've played like 47% of the games on their current contracts together.

Clippers have to try to get them to take a 1 and 1.

[Clemenza]

Zach Lowe with Howard Beck and Bobby Marks said Clippers can't give these guys extensions. They've played like 47% of the games on their current contracts together.

Clippers have to try to get them to take a 1 and 1.

If they don't show improvement health wise over the next year or so I don't see them getting extensions period.