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The Board Man Cometh!! Kawhi Leonard Signs 3 Year (2+1), $103 Million Deal

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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#541 » by MartinToVaught » Mon May 13, 2019 2:46 am

CptCanada wrote:
mttwlsn16 wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:Kawhi's not leaving the Raptors after that shot. Time to move on to Plan B.
Kawhi is literally that whole team. His "co-star" is a total no show in the playoffs.

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You guys have a bright future but you need to recognize that Kawhi isn't the team, in fact he was a -2 this game. The guy is a legend and we are happy that he is here, just wanted to give some insight.

This wasn't Kawhi's best game for sure. I do think you're underselling how much he had to carry the rest of the Raptors all series, though. Lowry is not a championship-winning second option, and although Siakam has a lot of potential, it's still far from a given that he becomes that guy.

That being said, the chances of Kawhi leaving are slim to none at this point, so congrats on keeping him. Better you guys than the Lakers. :D
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#542 » by MoMan24 » Mon May 13, 2019 3:01 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
CptCanada wrote:
mttwlsn16 wrote:Kawhi is literally that whole team. His "co-star" is a total no show in the playoffs.

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You guys have a bright future but you need to recognize that Kawhi isn't the team, in fact he was a -2 this game. The guy is a legend and we are happy that he is here, just wanted to give some insight.

This wasn't Kawhi's best game for sure. I do think you're underselling how much he had to carry the rest of the Raptors all series, though. Lowry is not a championship-winning second option, and although Siakam has a lot of potential, it's still far from a given that he becomes that guy.

That being said, the chances of Kawhi leaving are slim to none at this point, so congrats on keeping him. Better you guys than the Lakers. :D

Raptors also have just under 95 million in expiring contracts after the 19/20 season. The only contact on the books for 20/21 is Norman Powell at 10.86 million. Siakam's extension most likely and maybe OG's. If Kawahi stays they would still have room for a max contract next summer after they run this team back for one more year with an improved Siakam and OG and some minor changes. Like the Clippers the Raptors have clean books, just one year later.
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International Appeal 

Post#543 » by Ranma » Mon May 13, 2019 3:04 am

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Rise of the Machine 

Post#544 » by Ranma » Mon May 13, 2019 5:16 am

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The Best of the Best...With Honors 

Post#545 » by Ranma » Mon May 13, 2019 6:18 am

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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#546 » by Vae Victus » Mon May 13, 2019 7:11 am

I dont see how TOR winning in 7 games vs PHI, clinches him staying there.

Kawhi had to carry hard the whole series, and that's just not something most players want to do cuz it's a recipe for injury and no margin of error. Next year, whatever improvements Siakam, OG, and i guess FVV (i think he's pretty much what he is at this point) will be nullified by Lowry, Marc, and Ibaka aging another year into their mid 30s.

While TOR getting knocked out now, woulda made the decision to leave MUCH easier, their future is basically solely resting in Kawhi hands and how far he can drag them. Wherever Kawhi goes turns into a contender, and his performance that series pretty much cements that fact.

If anything, i think the Clips need to double down and get a 2nd elite superstar to pair up with Kawhi and showing him how the GSW model can only be beaten with an overabundence of elite talent. S&T KD Is the dream scenario, but other options like trading for AD need to be seriously explored so as to offer Kawhi his choice of running mates and showing him the commitment to winning that the LAC has.

I truly dont see the point of Kawhi dragging TOR another year if the rest of the team is gonna no show like that in the playoffs. If they pull another garbage series long performance, even if they beat MIL in the end, all it shows is how weak they are and how amazing Kawhi is, rather than how good of a support crew they are to him. As if Kawhi is gonna wait a year for TORs books to clear up during a weakass FA class. 2019 is when **** is gonna get real.

Regardless, TOR deserves to savor this victory and look forward to having a chance at winning a chip when GSW is at its lowest point. MIL is gonna be an interesting series. Giannis is a manimal, Bud is a great coach, and theyre not even firing at all cylinders with Brogdan out the whole series. If he's back healthy, TOR is in trouble.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#547 » by QRich3 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:42 am

That was pretty sick Kawhi, hat off. I'm not gonna be at all mad if he stays in Toronto, I was rooting for Philly but I enjoyed all of Toronto losing their absolute **** with that shot. Iconic NBA moment.
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Calming the Waters 

Post#548 » by Ranma » Mon May 13, 2019 7:46 am

It's Kawhi, KD or bust for me this off-season regardless of what else we do, because it's likely we'll overspend to fill the void since we're not really constructed to be built through the draft. Having said that, anything besides signing Kawhi Leonard this summer will be a letdown. At this point, the organization has done all it can to be attractive to not only him but other free agents as the universally recognized destination franchise in the entire league during possibly the biggest and most anticipated free-agent class of all-time. The script has been flipped where the Clippers are now operating like a world-class organization with an arena project still in the works and while the Lakers are the most dysfunctional organization likely in all of sports right now.

As such, things are now out of our hands and I choose to try to act in a world-class manner. Kawhi Leonard may not be a Clipper at this moment in time, but I'm genuinely a fan of his and consider him to already be a part of the team spiritually, so I will root for him to go as far as he can even if it means winning a championship for the Toronto Raptors.

There is plenty of time to be disappointed later on. Even if we did sign Leonard, there's always the possibility that he--or any other player, for that matter--could get injured. So why worry ourselves over things that we can't control? Why not embrace the situation we're currently positioned in? I'm not in the mood to fall back into that trap of expecting the worst or operating in fear of jinxing things like how things were during the Sterling days.

We have legitimate reasons to consider ourselves the front-runner for Kawhi's services. This thread is full of such supporting material. It's not like any of us here are acting like obnoxious Lakers fans with their myopic sense of entitlement.

Having said all of that, we're taking his remarkable game-winning shot and the moment too far. Yeah, it'd be hard for him to leave Canada after giving the entire country cause for celebration, but he doesn't have to go anywhere tomorrow. How many players have said that they've re-signed with a team because of a single shot? Heck, LeBron left Cleveland after getting that city its first ever championship as its favored son.

Obviously, Kawhi and LeBron are different people but they both want to win and do care about their legacy. Both prioritize family. LeBron and his wife scouted private schools in Southern California just prior to moving to L.A. Kawhi just bought his mother a luxury home in San Diego while his entire family resides in Southern California. Not to mention that it was reported that the Clippers were Kawhi's preferred destination.

The dude has proven himself and the doubters wrong. He's won a championship in San Antonio and if he wins one in Toronto, he'll have a chance to outdo LeBron and win another one with a 3rd different team. The Clippers are better positioned than any other team right now to win moving forward. After the dust settles from the postseason, Kawhi will listen to presentations and do what's best for him and his family moving forward regardless of what happens in Toronto.

Again, nothing is guaranteed and Toronto does have a chance of retaining him, but regardless of the outcome during this postseason, I feel the Clippers offer the best opportunity and situation for his personal preferences.


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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#549 » by MartinToVaught » Mon May 13, 2019 4:56 pm

Welp, our chances at Kawhi just went from slim to none. Kawhi's uncle hugged Masai and the Raptors' owner after the win last night. Kawhi's mouthpiece Chris Carter changed his tune about Toronto this morning. Kawhi is staying.

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At least I never put all my eggs in the Kawhi basket as a fan. I always had a weird feeling that he was far from the "lock" that the media claimed he was.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#550 » by Quake Griffin » Mon May 13, 2019 7:35 pm

Vae Victus wrote:I dont see how TOR winning in 7 games vs PHI, clinches him staying there.

Kawhi had to carry hard the whole series, and that's just not something most players want to do cuz it's a recipe for injury and no margin of error. Next year, whatever improvements Siakam, OG, and i guess FVV (i think he's pretty much what he is at this point) will be nullified by Lowry, Marc, and Ibaka aging another year into their mid 30s.

While TOR getting knocked out now, woulda made the decision to leave MUCH easier, their future is basically solely resting in Kawhi hands and how far he can drag them. Wherever Kawhi goes turns into a contender, and his performance that series pretty much cements that fact.

If anything, i think the Clips need to double down and get a 2nd elite superstar to pair up with Kawhi and showing him how the GSW model can only be beaten with an overabundence of elite talent. S&T KD Is the dream scenario, but other options like trading for AD need to be seriously explored so as to offer Kawhi his choice of running mates and showing him the commitment to winning that the LAC has.

I truly dont see the point of Kawhi dragging TOR another year if the rest of the team is gonna no show like that in the playoffs. If they pull another garbage series long performance, even if they beat MIL in the end, all it shows is how weak they are and how amazing Kawhi is, rather than how good of a support crew they are to him. As if Kawhi is gonna wait a year for TORs books to clear up during a weakass FA class. 2019 is when **** is gonna get real.

Regardless, TOR deserves to savor this victory and look forward to having a chance at winning a chip when GSW is at its lowest point. MIL is gonna be an interesting series. Giannis is a manimal, Bud is a great coach, and theyre not even firing at all cylinders with Brogdan out the whole series. If he's back healthy, TOR is in trouble.

Beverley turning 31
Gallo turning 31
Lou turning 33

Are we really in the position to call Toronto on the carpet for the age of their players? Kawhi is not stupid enough to think any of those 3 guys listed above are going to be healthy/ playing at prime levels by the time he is in year 4 of his deal.

Ranma wrote:but I'm genuinely a fan of his and consider him to already be a part of the team spiritually

Yeah no.

And this takes it a bit too far. He is not a Clipper. He's not spiritually a Clipper. He's literally done nothing for our organization. He's not the wind beneath our wings.

Maybe in some odd convoluted way you can argue that he inspired us from afar to play hard, so he would join us....but that says something worse about the guys here.

Just nah.

MartinToVaught wrote:Welp, our chances at Kawhi just went from slim to none. Kawhi's uncle hugged Masai and the Raptors' owner after the win last night. Kawhi's mouthpiece Chris Carter changed his tune about Toronto this morning. Kawhi is staying.



At least I never put all my eggs in the Kawhi basket as a fan. I always had a weird feeling that he was far from the "lock" that the media claimed he was.

Nobody should have had all of their eggs in his basket. Personally, I think the idea of creating a little engine that could team in order to attract a star is a bit ridiculous...not impossible but a bit ridiculous. I almost forgot about the Bowen thing until I just saw your post in the other thread.

We are on the same tier as Raptors imo. Are we the "better" option? Sure.
But we're in the same tier:
We need a superstar. Youre it. Be a leader. Take the big shots. Here are the keys. Oh and if you don't join/stay, we're mediocre.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#551 » by Vae Victus » Mon May 13, 2019 8:23 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:PatBev turning 31
Gallo turning 31
Lou turning 33

Are we really in the position to call Toronto on the carpet for the age of their players? Kawhi is not stupid enough to think any of those 3 guys listed above are going to be healthy/ playing at prime levels by the time he is in year 4 of his deal.

Nobody should have had all of their eggs in his basket. Personally, I think the idea of creating a little engine that could team in order to attract a star is a bit ridiculous...not impossible but a bit ridiculous. I almost forgot about the Bowen thing until I just saw your post in the other thread.

We are on the same tier as Raptors imo. Are we the "better" option? Sure.
But we're in the same tier:
We need a superstar. Youre it. Be a leader. Take the big shots. Here are the keys. Oh and if you don't join/stay, we're mediocre.


Turning 31, 31, 33 is a HUGEASS difference compared to turning 35, 35, and whatever Ibaka turns to (i think he lied on his age by at least 4 years, his drop off makes no sense otherwise). Not to mention that TOR trio is their 2nd through 4th best players sans Kawhi and all unmoveable. Whereas with the Clips, there's a good chance they can pair up a 2nd prime age superstar with him, PatBev is a FA (i dont want to pay him past 8m a year, personally), Gallo is likely gone if a 2nd superstar comes, and Lou Will is easily tradeable (and unnecessary with Kawhi and 2nd superstar as closer).

The Clips are younger with MUCH better cap situation. Team future strength LAC is a no brainer winner.
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Ramona is with Me 

Post#552 » by Ranma » Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm

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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#553 » by mkwest » Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm

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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#554 » by Vae Victus » Mon May 13, 2019 11:06 pm

Here's a hypothetical. Lets say Kawhi is sick of trying to solo carry a team and DEMANDs a 2nd superstar to be paired with him in LAC before he thinks of jumping ship from TOR.

For this scenario let's assume Kyrie (NYK), Durant (NYK), Klay (GSW), Butler (PHI), all the top tier FAs that Kawhi thinks are "worthy" of playing with him are all off the table. Zion goes to a rebuild squad that isnt interested in trading him for AD (thus taking NYK off the top runner list for trading for AD's services).

That leaves
C - Zubac*, Harrell
PF- Gallo
SF- Kawhi*, JRobinson
SG- Shamet, Lou Will
PG- SEGA

Notable FAs that the team should look to keep
PatBev - 9.6m cap hold this is important for potential S&T or resign over the cap purposes
JaMychal Green -15m cap hold, he's an ez renounce, but id love to keep him for the Room Exception if available
Zubac 2mil RFA caphold, *Assume he's counted on cap for now, until it gets filled up, then extend him

*Assumed Kawhi is signed to 30% max 1st year starting at 32.7m

Leaves the team with ~25.7m in cap space, with a 109m salary cap

Lets say that Kawhi thinks AD is worthy of being his super partner and DEMANDs that if the Clippers want his services they must acquire AD. Kawhi however isnt stupid, so he wont make his demand PUBLIC, but tells the Clippers on the downlow, so that the Clippers are given the chance to go get AD first without destroying their leverage and making the Clips look desperate for AD. Kawhi figures, him + AD + Doc + whatever is left of the roster is better than him re-signing with TOR, but he wants a 2nd banana who's head over heels better than Siakam to bother moving West into a harder conference.

What are you guys willing to give up to get AD? Assume the deal starts with at minimum SEGA + PHI or LAC 2020 prot FRP (whichever is better between the two) + MIA 2021 FRP, Also Solomon Hill must be eaten too, why, cuz NOP are dicks that way. NOP figures they can insta retool with whatever package they get for AD and have a nice and clean cap sheet while theyre at it.

Lakers are in bad shape as they missed on their primary FA targets, but with the injury woes of Ingram and Lonzo, is their package worth taking?

Celtics are out, with Kyrie bolting, theyre just gonna rebuild around Tatum.

Knicks have a high pick, but its not Zion, so is it worth the bother.

I dont see any other teams willing to roll the dice for 1 year of AD. AD could potentially be stolen for a non insane package, especially if they force the other team to choke down Hill too.

Whats your upper bound if THIS is the scenario?
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#555 » by Clemenza » Tue May 14, 2019 2:52 am

Can't see Kawhi leaving Toronto at all. The entire country is behind him. You got to milk a great situation like that til the wheels fall off. Not mad though I see us maybe getting Jimmy Butler. Was down on him cause the the antics in Minnesota but he's won me over with this play during the playoffs with Philly
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#556 » by MartinToVaught » Tue May 14, 2019 5:02 am

Clemenza wrote:Can't see Kawhi leaving Toronto at all. The entire country is behind him. You got to milk a great situation like that til the wheels fall off. Not mad though I see us maybe getting Jimmy Butler. Was down on him cause the the antics in Minnesota but he's won me over with this play during the playoffs with Philly

I'm praying we don't overpay Butler as a "consolation prize" for missing out on the real big names. He was on his best behavior for a few months in Philly so he can secure the bag this summer, let's be real now. I don't believe for a minute that he's magically stopped being a diva overnight. Couple that with all the mileage on his body thanks to Thibs, and it's just not a good investment. I don't see him leaving the Sixers anyway.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#557 » by QRich3 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:12 am

Yeah I don't want Butler at all. I've been saying it all year, I'd like Kawhi to come cause he's low maintenance for the most part, but if he doesn't come, I don't want Butler or Irving or Thompson or any of those guys, I wanna keep building a good team with patience and a long term view. Get some development for the kids, a good pick next year, and keep building value until you find that cornerstone. None of those guys that are not good enough to be that main piece but still make you rush your timeline.

About Kawhi, the only thing that makes us a better option than Toronto is being in LA really. The rest, front office, roster, future outlook, etc. we're pretty similar. I wouldn't give a big edge to one or another. Now according to reports for the past year or two, being in California is important to Kawhi, so that might be an actual edge. For a lot of people, it isn't, and as some of us have been saying for a while, we haven't got the slightest clue what's going through his head. We, or any reporter we've read, no one really has a clue but him. Just as I didn't think we had any advantage over the Raptors before, I don't think they have it now just because he hit a big shot and they treat him as a hero. We just haven't got a clue, like before.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#558 » by playaloc916 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:03 pm

mkwest wrote:
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Wait... I watched that interview and I could've sworn he added "of this season" after a long pause... I did have the same reaction though, when he said could have been my last game, I was like, :D ...

Or maybe, he caught the Freudian slip, but it took him a few seconds to correct himself???
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#559 » by playaloc916 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:34 pm

Clemenza wrote:Can't see Kawhi leaving Toronto at all. The entire country is behind him. You got to milk a great situation like that til the wheels fall off. Not mad though I see us maybe getting Jimmy Butler. Was down on him cause the the antics in Minnesota but he's won me over with this play during the playoffs with Philly

I know the "entire country behind him" thing is mentioned a lot, and obviously this is just my personal opinion (I did see another poster on the GB share the same opinion), but I think that point is overrated.

Not all Canadian basketball fans from outside Ontario will cheer for the Raptors with the same passion as the Toronto residents cheer for them... I'm one example (from Vancouver but have lived in Toronto for about 10 years now). While I do follow the Raptors and hope they do well, they are not my "main" team. In my case, I guess it goes back to when the Grizzlies were still in Vancouver, there was a bit of a rivalry between Vancouver and Toronto (not just basketball-related). When the Grizzlies moved, I don't think everyone in Vancouver automatically converted to Toronto fans. I'm sure a portion did, but not everyone.

Adding to that, Canada is still mainly a hockey country (though basketball popularity continues to grow). So the Raptors have rabid fans (like in Jurassic Park or whatever it is called), but to say the entire country is behind him, I kind of feel that's going a bit overboard...
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Re: Kawhi Leonard? 

Post#560 » by Quake Griffin » Tue May 14, 2019 3:11 pm

QRich3 wrote:Yeah I don't want Butler at all. I've been saying it all year, I'd like Kawhi to come cause he's low maintenance for the most part, but if he doesn't come, I don't want Butler or Irving or Thompson or any of those guys, I wanna keep building a good team with patience and a long term view. Get some development for the kids, a good pick next year, and keep building value until you find that cornerstone. None of those guys that are not good enough to be that main piece but still make you rush your timeline.

Which is why I was against the "build a little engine that could team to attract a star and when any success comes, claim you dont care about anything else that happens next/ it was all worth it because that little success was enough" from the jump. If it's not Kawhi or KD coming, I dont want it. Oh great, Klay and/ or Kyrie on max deals. Maybe a WCF trip once in the next 5 years. ZZZZzzz

Could it work? Sure.
But traditionally, stars are joining stars. Very rare they just say, "oh wow...45 wins? What a culture. I want that."
I've even made the case that there is more history of players joining "lesser" teams if they can look and see star players on the horizon....Nash-Suns...Paul-Griffin...Bron-Cryrie.

QRich3 wrote:
About Kawhi, the only thing that makes us a better option than Toronto is being in LA really. The rest, front office, roster, future outlook, etc. we're pretty similar. I wouldn't give a big edge to one or another. Now according to reports for the past year or two, being in California is important to Kawhi, so that might be an actual edge. For a lot of people, it isn't, and as some of us have been saying for a while, we haven't got the slightest clue what's going through his head. We, or any reporter we've read, no one really has a clue but him. Just as I didn't think we had any advantage over the Raptors before, I don't think they have it now just because he hit a big shot and they treat him as a hero. We just haven't got a clue, like before.

True. I'm of the opinion we are the better option. However, the big picture for him is the same - be a superstar for a team that won't be much without you.

The LA thing is overblown. So many players in the last 20 years have bought homes in LA. Kevin Garnett had one. Paul Pierce, from the area, was essentially a Celtic for life. Russ, Harden, George are all from the area, own homes there and, for now, seem to be set on finishing their career elsewhere. Many players spend their offseasons in Southern California, renting these huge homes. Should we start a rumor about all of them? This was supposed to be the thing for PG. OMG he wants to be home so bad. He wants home so bad. BRB signed with OKC. Maybe Kawhi does want LA, but outside of him buying a home near San Diego (where he went to college and nowhere near a Clipper facility) and twitter, what else is there?

There's ONE reason I hold out hope for Kawhi coming to the Clippers:
I think he will take a meeting with us and I'm sure Ballmer, Mike, Trent, and Jerry will make an incredible pitch to him.

Everything else....meh...baggage...baggage passed to us from twitter.
Pass it back.
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