Joe Ingles

[Roscoe Sheed]

Doc made a lot of mistakes as a GM, but cutting Ingles has to rank as one of his worst if not the worst.

It almost makes me sick watching him play so well in the playoffs. How many years did people say "if only the Clippers had a good small forward"?

[og15]

Hindsight is 20/20. The Clippers did plan to bring him back, they were trying to work with the cap to make a way for him, but Utah swooped in quickly. He's developed well in this league, but it happens. Many other teams missed on him too since the whole league had a chance to sign him, only problem is that the Clippers actually had him in their grasp.

Ironically, the choice of Jared Cunningham over Ingles was the one time Doc did what we usually wanted him to do which was to choose the younger athletic guy with potential over the older more established guy. I did not expect Ingles to be this good, none of us expected him to be able to hold his own on defense like he has either. He was a surprise probably to Utah themselves. I believe some said that part of why Ingles was picked up by Utah was to help out Exum with him being a fellow countryman. Don't know how true that is, but if it is, Ingles being even better than Exum and being a great and versatile player is a nice additional benefit.

[Clemenza]

Hindsight is 20/20. The Clippers did plan to bring him back, they were trying to work with the cap to make a way for him, but Utah swooped in quickly. He's developed well in this league, but it happens. Many other teams missed on him too since the whole league had a chance to sign him, only problem is that the Clippers actually had him in their grasp.

Ironically, the choice of Jared Cunningham over Ingles was the one time Doc did what we usually wanted him to do which was to choose the younger athletic guy with potential over the older more established guy. I did not expect Ingles to be this good, none of us expected him to be able to hold his own on defense like he has either. He was a surprise probably to Utah themselves. I believe some said that part of why Ingles was picked up by Utah was to help out Exum with him being a fellow countryman. Don't know how true that is, but if it is, Ingles being even better than Exum and being a great and versatile player is a nice additional benefit.

Yeah we all know the two paragraph excuse story on what happened but there's no excuses, Doc f*cked up. He couldn't draft for sh*t, couldn't acquire free agents for sh*t, couldn't develop players outside of Junior, couldn't make a decent trade to save his life, no overseas scouting, etc. This was one of the few times he could've had a little vision or take a semi gamble FOR ONCE on two players with some upside that fell into his lap in Ingles and Whiteside(Doc didn't want to bring him in for a workout). But nope, he still whiffed on them as well like he did with everything else during his tenure with us.

The problem is everything is hindsight 20/20 when it comes to Doc.. and truthfully I'd give him a pass on cutting Ingles if he made a nice trade once in a while, or maybe a nice free agent signing here or there, but there was nothing from this guy and his roster building whatsoever. Just washed up vets left and right. Its so bad that everything Ingles does now the backstory to it all is always, "You know Doc cut him right?"

[Max Headrom]

Hindsight is 20/20. The Clippers did plan to bring him back, they were trying to work with the cap to make a way for him, but Utah swooped in quickly. He's developed well in this league, but it happens. Many other teams missed on him too since the whole league had a chance to sign him, only problem is that the Clippers actually had him in their grasp.

Ironically, the choice of Jared Cunningham over Ingles was the one time Doc did what we usually wanted him to do which was to choose the younger athletic guy with potential over the older more established guy. I did not expect Ingles to be this good, none of us expected him to be able to hold his own on defense like he has either. He was a surprise probably to Utah themselves. I believe some said that part of why Ingles was picked up by Utah was to help out Exum with him being a fellow countryman. Don't know how true that is, but if it is, Ingles being even better than Exum and being a great and versatile player is a nice additional benefit.

Yeah we all know the two paragraph excuse story on what happened but there's no excuses, Doc f*cked up. He couldn't draft for sh*t, couldn't acquire free agents for sh*t, couldn't develop players outside of Junior, couldn't make a decent trade to save his life, no overseas scouting, etc. This was one of the few times he could've had a little vision or take a semi gamble FOR ONCE on two players with some upside that fell into his lap in Ingles and Whiteside(Doc didn't want to bring him in for a workout). But nope, he still whiffed on them as well like he did with everything else during his tenure with us.

The problem is everything is hindsight 20/20 when it comes to Doc.. and truthfully I'd give him a pass if he made a nice trade once in a while, or maybe a nice free agent signing here or there, but there was nothing from this guy and his roster building whatsoever. Just washed up vets left and right.

Uh, I don't think Whiteside is a good name to bring up right now... After getting his contract he's looked terrible. Also as OG pointed out, even if Doc kept Ingles, the "we hate Doc" crew would've still complained about it and probably flipped it as Doc loving old guys and giving them a chance but don't take chances on young players...

[Clemenza]

Hindsight is 20/20. The Clippers did plan to bring him back, they were trying to work with the cap to make a way for him, but Utah swooped in quickly. He's developed well in this league, but it happens. Many other teams missed on him too since the whole league had a chance to sign him, only problem is that the Clippers actually had him in their grasp.

Ironically, the choice of Jared Cunningham over Ingles was the one time Doc did what we usually wanted him to do which was to choose the younger athletic guy with potential over the older more established guy. I did not expect Ingles to be this good, none of us expected him to be able to hold his own on defense like he has either. He was a surprise probably to Utah themselves. I believe some said that part of why Ingles was picked up by Utah was to help out Exum with him being a fellow countryman. Don't know how true that is, but if it is, Ingles being even better than Exum and being a great and versatile player is a nice additional benefit.

Yeah we all know the two paragraph excuse story on what happened but there's no excuses, Doc f*cked up. He couldn't draft for sh*t, couldn't acquire free agents for sh*t, couldn't develop players outside of Junior, couldn't make a decent trade to save his life, no overseas scouting, etc. This was one of the few times he could've had a little vision or take a semi gamble FOR ONCE on two players with some upside that fell into his lap in Ingles and Whiteside(Doc didn't want to bring him in for a workout). But nope, he still whiffed on them as well like he did with everything else during his tenure with us.

The problem is everything is hindsight 20/20 when it comes to Doc.. and truthfully I'd give him a pass if he made a nice trade once in a while, or maybe a nice free agent signing here or there, but there was nothing from this guy and his roster building whatsoever. Just washed up vets left and right.

Uh, I don't think Whiteside is a good name to bring up right now... After getting his contract he's looked terrible. Also as OG pointed out, even if Doc kept Ingles, the "we hate Doc" crew would've still complained about it and probably flipped it as Doc loving old guys and giving them a chance but don't take chances on young players...

Yeah Whiteside is now falling off but he wasn't during his first 2-3 years with the Heat. He was teetering on being an all star for a while. And really if he didn't make DJ expendable we could've used him as a trade asset if it really came down to it. Its all about having assets in this league.

And that year we cut Ingles every Clipper fan I knew including myself thought he would make the team. Alot of us were mad he got cut plus we still were in dire need of a SF for like the 2nd or 3rd year in a row. He wasn't a walking sportcenter highlight nor was he jumping out the gym but you saw that he could contribute right out the gate. We all knew Hedo Turkalou was washed up and he got the guaranteed deal

[MartinToVaught]

Also as OG pointed out, even if Doc kept Ingles, the "we hate Doc" crew would've still complained about it and probably flipped it as Doc loving old guys and giving them a chance but don't take chances on young players...

Actually, nobody would have complained. Unlike Doc's washed-up vets, Ingles actually filled a need and would have contributed to winning.

[og15]

Hindsight is 20/20. The Clippers did plan to bring him back, they were trying to work with the cap to make a way for him, but Utah swooped in quickly. He's developed well in this league, but it happens. Many other teams missed on him too since the whole league had a chance to sign him, only problem is that the Clippers actually had him in their grasp.

Ironically, the choice of Jared Cunningham over Ingles was the one time Doc did what we usually wanted him to do which was to choose the younger athletic guy with potential over the older more established guy. I did not expect Ingles to be this good, none of us expected him to be able to hold his own on defense like he has either. He was a surprise probably to Utah themselves. I believe some said that part of why Ingles was picked up by Utah was to help out Exum with him being a fellow countryman. Don't know how true that is, but if it is, Ingles being even better than Exum and being a great and versatile player is a nice additional benefit.

Yeah we all know the two paragraph excuse story on what happened but there's no excuses, Doc f*cked up. He couldn't draft for sh*t, couldn't acquire free agents for sh*t, couldn't develop players outside of Junior, couldn't make a decent trade to save his life, no overseas scouting, etc. This was one of the few times he could've had a little vision or take a semi gamble FOR ONCE on two players with some upside that fell into his lap in Ingles and Whiteside(Doc didn't want to bring him in for a workout). But nope, he still whiffed on them as well like he did with everything else during his tenure with us.

The problem is everything is hindsight 20/20 when it comes to Doc.. and truthfully I'd give him a pass on cutting Ingles if he made a nice trade once in a while, or maybe a nice free agent signing here or there, but there was nothing from this guy and his roster building whatsoever. Just washed up vets left and right. Its so bad that everything Ingles does now the backstory to it all is always, "You know Doc cut him right?"

Well yes, a big reason we criticize Doc more than makes sense for letting go of Ingles is because Doc didn't make other good moves, but of course in this case he didn't even want to let go of Ingles and he said as much right after Ingles was let go. Poor cap management was also part of the issue.

I have no problem criticizing Doc when I deem it appropriate, and I do very frequently but the quoted part is exactly why I said hindsight is 20/20. Ingles was not considered a guy with any special upside. Most people saw him as what he was. Ingles was a 27 year old when he was in camp with the Clippers. None of us were saying we should keep him based on upside, just like none of us are currently saying that 27 year old CJ Williams was signed because of his upside. I'm not going to revise history and act like I was all up in arms about us letting him go, I thought it was inconsequential, and after Cunningham had that big game, I thought he was a decent gamble, the type the Clippers needed even though I wasn't nearly as sold on him as others.

Like you admitted, the main reason you're making it seem like a colossal failure when it really wasn't is just due to anger at Doc not seeming to ever make any breakthroughs with signings and because the Clippers are always linked as the team that let him go. It's not based on an objective examination of whether that specific move was good or bad, and again, technically Doc did go with the upside choice among the two camp invites, but Cunningham showed exactly why IQ and skills > athleticism.

[Clemenza]

Hindsight is 20/20. The Clippers did plan to bring him back, they were trying to work with the cap to make a way for him, but Utah swooped in quickly. He's developed well in this league, but it happens. Many other teams missed on him too since the whole league had a chance to sign him, only problem is that the Clippers actually had him in their grasp.

Ironically, the choice of Jared Cunningham over Ingles was the one time Doc did what we usually wanted him to do which was to choose the younger athletic guy with potential over the older more established guy. I did not expect Ingles to be this good, none of us expected him to be able to hold his own on defense like he has either. He was a surprise probably to Utah themselves. I believe some said that part of why Ingles was picked up by Utah was to help out Exum with him being a fellow countryman. Don't know how true that is, but if it is, Ingles being even better than Exum and being a great and versatile player is a nice additional benefit.

Yeah we all know the two paragraph excuse story on what happened but there's no excuses, Doc f*cked up. He couldn't draft for sh*t, couldn't acquire free agents for sh*t, couldn't develop players outside of Junior, couldn't make a decent trade to save his life, no overseas scouting, etc. This was one of the few times he could've had a little vision or take a semi gamble FOR ONCE on two players with some upside that fell into his lap in Ingles and Whiteside(Doc didn't want to bring him in for a workout). But nope, he still whiffed on them as well like he did with everything else during his tenure with us.

The problem is everything is hindsight 20/20 when it comes to Doc.. and truthfully I'd give him a pass on cutting Ingles if he made a nice trade once in a while, or maybe a nice free agent signing here or there, but there was nothing from this guy and his roster building whatsoever. Just washed up vets left and right. Its so bad that everything Ingles does now the backstory to it all is always, "You know Doc cut him right?"

Well yes, a big reason we criticize Doc more than makes sense for letting go of Ingles is because Doc didn't make other good moves, but of course in this case he didn't even want to let go of Ingles and he said as much right after Ingles was let go. Poor cap management was also part of the issue.

I have no problem criticizing Doc when I deem it appropriate, and I do very frequently but the quoted part is exactly why I said hindsight is 20/20. Ingles was not considered a guy with any special upside. Most people saw him as what he was. Ingles was a 27 year old when he was in camp with the Clippers. None of us were saying we should keep him based on upside, just like none of us are currently saying that 27 year old CJ Williams was signed because of his upside. I'm not going to revise history and act like I was all up in arms about us letting him go, I thought it was inconsequential, and after Cunningham had that big game, I thought he was a decent gamble, the type the Clippers needed even though I wasn't nearly as sold on him as others.

Like you admitted, the main reason you're making it seem like a colossal failure when it really wasn't is just due to anger at Doc not seeming to ever make any breakthroughs with signings and because the Clippers are always linked as the team that let him go. It's not based on an objective examination of whether that specific move was good or bad, and again, technically Doc did go with the upside choice among the two camp invites, but Cunningham showed exactly why IQ and skills > athleticism.

Maybe this was on here but the other Clipper boards I'm on said otherwise. It was the same feeling and head scratcher when we cut Jamil Wison and couldn't get Ty Wallace a real deal. We needed a SF in the worst way at that time and granted Ingles had no star qualities on display but you still saw a smart player who did the right things when he played. He looked like a quality stop gap player until we came up on a better SF- if that were to happen at all knowing Doc was the GM. Of course we didn't know he'd turn out to be this good but he still should not have been cut if we went by team needs which was SF/wing help. And to make matters worse Doc ended up cutting Cunningham as well a couple of months later into the season so Austin could get more playing time.

I just feel that the "hindsight is 20/20" mantra should be banished when discussing Doc and his GM job because it applies to pretty much everything that has gone wrong with his team building and team chemistry over the past 6 years or so. Nothing was pro-active with Doc at GM. All his moves were made by taking the easy route. No gambles, used first rounders for quick fixes and salary dumps, old Celtic flameouts, vet minimum players, etc. Its all hindsight is 20/20 with this guy. Plus I don't even believe him when he said, "I didn't want to get rid of Ingles, we tried to hide him but Utah came in and scooped him up yada yada yada". That's that slick talk Doc is good at. I don't buy that sh*t one bit.

[Akklaim1]

Imagine when we had him and we already had the Agua Caliente Clippers. Send him down there and his nickname would be Joe "No Hablo" Ingles.

[og15]

Yeah we all know the two paragraph excuse story on what happened but there's no excuses, Doc f*cked up. He couldn't draft for sh*t, couldn't acquire free agents for sh*t, couldn't develop players outside of Junior, couldn't make a decent trade to save his life, no overseas scouting, etc. This was one of the few times he could've had a little vision or take a semi gamble FOR ONCE on two players with some upside that fell into his lap in Ingles and Whiteside(Doc didn't want to bring him in for a workout). But nope, he still whiffed on them as well like he did with everything else during his tenure with us.

The problem is everything is hindsight 20/20 when it comes to Doc.. and truthfully I'd give him a pass on cutting Ingles if he made a nice trade once in a while, or maybe a nice free agent signing here or there, but there was nothing from this guy and his roster building whatsoever. Just washed up vets left and right. Its so bad that everything Ingles does now the backstory to it all is always, "You know Doc cut him right?"

Well yes, a big reason we criticize Doc more than makes sense for letting go of Ingles is because Doc didn't make other good moves, but of course in this case he didn't even want to let go of Ingles and he said as much right after Ingles was let go. Poor cap management was also part of the issue.

I have no problem criticizing Doc when I deem it appropriate, and I do very frequently but the quoted part is exactly why I said hindsight is 20/20. Ingles was not considered a guy with any special upside. Most people saw him as what he was. Ingles was a 27 year old when he was in camp with the Clippers. None of us were saying we should keep him based on upside, just like none of us are currently saying that 27 year old CJ Williams was signed because of his upside. I'm not going to revise history and act like I was all up in arms about us letting him go, I thought it was inconsequential, and after Cunningham had that big game, I thought he was a decent gamble, the type the Clippers needed even though I wasn't nearly as sold on him as others.

Like you admitted, the main reason you're making it seem like a colossal failure when it really wasn't is just due to anger at Doc not seeming to ever make any breakthroughs with signings and because the Clippers are always linked as the team that let him go. It's not based on an objective examination of whether that specific move was good or bad, and again, technically Doc did go with the upside choice among the two camp invites, but Cunningham showed exactly why IQ and skills > athleticism.

Maybe this was on here but the other Clipper boards I'm on said otherwise. It was the same feeling and head scratcher when we cut Jamil Wison and couldn't get Ty Wallace a real deal. We needed a SF in the worst way at that time and granted Ingles had no star qualities on display but you still saw a smart player who did the right things when he played. He looked like a quality stop gap player until we came up on a better SF- if that were to happen at all knowing Doc was the GM. Of course we didn't know he'd turn out to be this good but he still should not have been cut if we went by team needs which was SF/wing help. And to make matters worse Doc ended up cutting Cunningham as well a couple of months later into the season so Austin could get more playing time.

I just feel that the "hindsight is 20/20" mantra should be banished when discussing Doc and his GM job because it applies to pretty much everything that has gone wrong with his team building and team chemistry over the past 6 years or so. Nothing was pro-active with Doc at GM. All his moves were made by taking the easy route. No gambles, used first rounders for quick fixes and salary dumps, old Celtic flameouts, vet minimum players, etc. Its all hindsight is 20/20 with this guy. Plus I don't even believe him when he said, "I didn't want to get rid of Ingles, we tried to hide him but Utah came in and scooped him up yada yada yada". That's that slick talk Doc is good at. I don't buy that sh*t one bit.

There were a lot of Doc moves that many of us thought were bad decisions at the time and didn't require hindsight. I could list the ones I personally thought and complained about, but I've done so many times before. That doesn't mean that some of his moves or lack thereof only look bad in hindsight.

I'm not saying no one thought keeping him would be a good idea. I'm saying that Clippers fans didn't see him as a guy with booming potential. People didn't project him becoming what he is now or even as a starting SF.

[esqtvd]

Meh. I liked Ingles too because he always seemed to be in the right place, but iirc he had a lousy camp statswise. He was only with us for a month.

As a contender, neither did we have the PT for him to develop. With Utah he only averaged a lousy 5 points, 2.2 rebs and 2.3 assists in 21 mpg his rookie year and then got his minutes cut to 15 mpg his 2nd year [4.2/1.9/1.2].

He's finally become a nice player at age 30 but at $13M per, he's not underpaid for his 11.2/4.2/4.8.

And yes, it's been my pet theory too that Utah scooped him up mostly as company for his fellow Aussie Dante Exum, who was a rookie that year and was new to the States.

Ingles, 27, will join fellow Australian Dante Exum, the No. 5 overall pick in NBA draft, on the Jazz. Ingles had been a mentor and close friend of Exum's in Australia.

But it also appears Utah got lucky in that Quin Snyder happened to have seen him play in Europe.

Coach Quin Snyder had seen Ingles’ value while he was an assistant coach with CSKA Moscow two years ago and the 6-8 player was with Euroleague champion Barcelona.

“We had a need (for another wing). There’s always guys that you recognize their ability and circumstances don’t allow you to keep them,” Snyder said of the Clippers’ situation. “But from that standpoint for us, he’s a settling influence (with) his ability to pass the ball. … He’s obviously a good fit for our group.”

And yes the Clips needed a forward, but we also needed a guard.

https://clipperholics.com/2017/05/08/la-clippers-doc-rivers-decision-keep-jared-cunningham-joe-ingles/

Doc Rivers had one final cut to make at the end of the 2014 preseason. He would either keep guard Jared Cunningham or Joe Ingles. It looked like Joe was the going to be the player that Doc kept on the roster, but two things happened to change his career’s path.

*Backup point guard, Jordan Farmar was injured, leaving a hole at the guard position
*Jared Cunningham scored like crazy in the last few preseason games, forcing Doc to reevaluate

It's not as though the Jazz had any idea Ingles would become a starter. They had a crap roster and also picked up Jordan Hamilton off the waiver wire the same day. They had room, we didn't. They had PT to spare to develop projects, we didn't.

In fact the irony here is that Dante Exum so far has turned out to be a wasted draft pick, as was the #9 pick Trey Burke the year before that. So much for the Jazz being geniuses. Hey, I'm all for him being moved out of personnel matters especially with Jerry West onboard, but if Doc had blown 2 high picks like the Jazz did, there'd be a much better case for spitting on his grave like this.

[Forte IV]

Please put this to rest. There were 28 other teams in the NBA that could have picked him up but nobody did. They also made the same mistake the Clippers did. Any of those other teams could have had him too.

[Clemenza]

Meh. I liked Ingles too because he always seemed to be in the right place, but iirc he had a lousy camp statswise. He was only with us for a month.

As a contender, neither did we have the PT for him to develop. With Utah he only averaged a lousy 5 points, 2.2 rebs and 2.3 assists in 21 mpg his rookie year and then got his minutes cut to 15 mpg his 2nd year [4.2/1.9/1.2].

He's finally become a nice player at age 30 but at $13M per, he's not underpaid for his 11.2/4.2/4.8.

And yes, it's been my pet theory too that Utah scooped him up mostly as company for his fellow Aussie Dante Exum, who was a rookie that year and was new to the States.

Ingles, 27, will join fellow Australian Dante Exum, the No. 5 overall pick in NBA draft, on the Jazz. Ingles had been a mentor and close friend of Exum's in Australia.

But it also appears Utah got lucky in that Quin Snyder happened to have seen him play in Europe.

Coach Quin Snyder had seen Ingles’ value while he was an assistant coach with CSKA Moscow two years ago and the 6-8 player was with Euroleague champion Barcelona.

“We had a need (for another wing). There’s always guys that you recognize their ability and circumstances don’t allow you to keep them,” Snyder said of the Clippers’ situation. “But from that standpoint for us, he’s a settling influence (with) his ability to pass the ball. … He’s obviously a good fit for our group.”

And yes the Clips needed a forward, but we also needed a guard.

https://clipperholics.com/2017/05/08/la-clippers-doc-rivers-decision-keep-jared-cunningham-joe-ingles/

Doc Rivers had one final cut to make at the end of the 2014 preseason. He would either keep guard Jared Cunningham or Joe Ingles. It looked like Joe was the going to be the player that Doc kept on the roster, but two things happened to change his career’s path.

*Backup point guard, Jordan Farmar was injured, leaving a hole at the guard position
*Jared Cunningham scored like crazy in the last few preseason games, forcing Doc to reevaluate

It's not as though the Jazz had any idea Ingles would become a starter. They had a crap roster and also picked up Jordan Hamilton off the waiver wire the same day. They had room, we didn't. They had PT to spare to develop projects, we didn't.

In fact the irony here is that Dante Exum so far has turned out to be a wasted draft pick, as was the #9 pick Trey Burke the year before that. So much for the Jazz being geniuses. Hey, I'm all for him being moved out of personnel matters especially with Jerry West onboard, but if Doc had blown 2 high picks like the Jazz did, there'd be a much better case for spitting on his grave like this.

Lol.. we had no SF whatsoever. Development or not there was nothing in front nor in back of him that was of greater superior talent at the SF position. Of course it would've depended on Doc giving him playing time or nor but that's another topic. But the "no time for development cause we were a contender" take is laughable in my book. Hell our team wasn't really much after our core anyways for like 4-5 years cause Doc never surrounded Blake, CP3, and DJ with much of anything. If given the opportunity by Doc Ingles could've started at SF or been one of the first off the bench if Doc wasn't on that bullsh*t

[Clemenza]

Please put this to rest. There were 28 other teams in the NBA that could have picked him up but nobody did. They also made the same mistake the Clippers did. Any of those other teams could have had him too.

That was a special invite from the Clipps we gave to Ingles. Not every team knows about every player outside of the US. Foe some of these non drafted- mid 20 year foreign old players it takes a keen eye from a scout with lots of time on their hands to weed them out the pack.. Ingles was more in line with a player like Jonathan Simmons who played and got his name while playing for the Spurs and now is with the Orlando Magic. He was a guy off the street who did an open tryout for a D League team and made it. Can't say 28 other teams didn't make the mistake on him cause he damn near came out of thin air.

[esqtvd]

Meh. I liked Ingles too because he always seemed to be in the right place, but iirc he had a lousy camp statswise. He was only with us for a month.

As a contender, neither did we have the PT for him to develop. With Utah he only averaged a lousy 5 points, 2.2 rebs and 2.3 assists in 21 mpg his rookie year and then got his minutes cut to 15 mpg his 2nd year [4.2/1.9/1.2].

He's finally become a nice player at age 30 but at $13M per, he's not underpaid for his 11.2/4.2/4.8.

And yes, it's been my pet theory too that Utah scooped him up mostly as company for his fellow Aussie Dante Exum, who was a rookie that year and was new to the States.

Ingles, 27, will join fellow Australian Dante Exum, the No. 5 overall pick in NBA draft, on the Jazz. Ingles had been a mentor and close friend of Exum's in Australia.

But it also appears Utah got lucky in that Quin Snyder happened to have seen him play in Europe.

Coach Quin Snyder had seen Ingles’ value while he was an assistant coach with CSKA Moscow two years ago and the 6-8 player was with Euroleague champion Barcelona.

“We had a need (for another wing). There’s always guys that you recognize their ability and circumstances don’t allow you to keep them,” Snyder said of the Clippers’ situation. “But from that standpoint for us, he’s a settling influence (with) his ability to pass the ball. … He’s obviously a good fit for our group.”

And yes the Clips needed a forward, but we also needed a guard.

https://clipperholics.com/2017/05/08/la-clippers-doc-rivers-decision-keep-jared-cunningham-joe-ingles/

Doc Rivers had one final cut to make at the end of the 2014 preseason. He would either keep guard Jared Cunningham or Joe Ingles. It looked like Joe was the going to be the player that Doc kept on the roster, but two things happened to change his career’s path.

*Backup point guard, Jordan Farmar was injured, leaving a hole at the guard position
*Jared Cunningham scored like crazy in the last few preseason games, forcing Doc to reevaluate

It's not as though the Jazz had any idea Ingles would become a starter. They had a crap roster and also picked up Jordan Hamilton off the waiver wire the same day. They had room, we didn't. They had PT to spare to develop projects, we didn't.

In fact the irony here is that Dante Exum so far has turned out to be a wasted draft pick, as was the #9 pick Trey Burke the year before that. So much for the Jazz being geniuses. Hey, I'm all for him being moved out of personnel matters especially with Jerry West onboard, but if Doc had blown 2 high picks like the Jazz did, there'd be a much better case for spitting on his grave like this.

Lol.. we had no SF whatsoever. Development or not there was nothing in front nor in back of him that was of greater superior talent at the SF position. Of course it would've depended on Doc giving him playing time or nor but that's another topic. But the "no time for development cause we were a contender" take is laughable in my book. Hell our team wasn't really much after our core anyways for like 4-5 years cause Doc never surrounded Blake, CP3, and DJ with much of anything. If given the opportunity by Doc Ingles could've started at SF or been one of the first off the bench if Doc wasn't on that bullsh*t

Easy, fella, LOL. Ingles' numbers his first two years were pretty modest, see above: 5 ppg in 21 mpg--indeed his minutes were cut his 2nd year. He was not the player he is now.

Matt Barnes started at SF @ 30 mpg that year: we won 56 games and finished with the 3rd seed. No way you expect your 27 year old rookie 15th man--whom I believe had an unimpressive camp offensively--to get significant minutes, certainly not start.

Utah won 38 games that year and for them it was WTH, give Joe some burn.

[og15]

Please put this to rest. There were 28 other teams in the NBA that could have picked him up but nobody did. They also made the same mistake the Clippers did. Any of those other teams could have had him too.

That was a special invite from the Clipps we gave to Ingles. Not every team knows about every player outside of the US. Foe some of these non drafted- mid 20 year foreign old players it takes a keen eye from a scout with lots of time on their hands to weed them out the pack.. Ingles was more in line with a player like Jonathan Simmons who played and got his name while playing for the Spurs and now is with the Orlando Magic. He was a guy off the street who did an open tryout for a D League team and made it. Can't say 28 other teams didn't make the mistake on him cause he damn near came out of thin air.

Ingles got noticed for his play with Australia, he wasn't under the radar, a couple of other teams were actually considering him too.

DraftExpress had a scouting video in 2014 summer of free agent Ingles. If Draft Express can have a scouting video of him and any NBA team is saying that they don't know about him, their scouts should be fired. In this digital age also, you can know about basically anyone that pops on the scene.

Seven to eight NBA teams have expressed interest in Joe Ingles

Ingles is playing with Australia in the World Cup.

RealGM reported last offseason that the Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Memphis Grizzlies and Los Angeles Clippers were showing interest in Ingles

https://bealestreetbears.com/2014/09/02/grizzlies-reportedly-interested-in-joe-ingles/

[og15]

Meh. I liked Ingles too because he always seemed to be in the right place, but iirc he had a lousy camp statswise. He was only with us for a month.

As a contender, neither did we have the PT for him to develop. With Utah he only averaged a lousy 5 points, 2.2 rebs and 2.3 assists in 21 mpg his rookie year and then got his minutes cut to 15 mpg his 2nd year [4.2/1.9/1.2].

He's finally become a nice player at age 30 but at $13M per, he's not underpaid for his 11.2/4.2/4.8.

And yes, it's been my pet theory too that Utah scooped him up mostly as company for his fellow Aussie Dante Exum, who was a rookie that year and was new to the States.



But it also appears Utah got lucky in that Quin Snyder happened to have seen him play in Europe.



And yes the Clips needed a forward, but we also needed a guard.

https://clipperholics.com/2017/05/08/la-clippers-doc-rivers-decision-keep-jared-cunningham-joe-ingles/




It's not as though the Jazz had any idea Ingles would become a starter. They had a crap roster and also picked up Jordan Hamilton off the waiver wire the same day. They had room, we didn't. They had PT to spare to develop projects, we didn't.

In fact the irony here is that Dante Exum so far has turned out to be a wasted draft pick, as was the #9 pick Trey Burke the year before that. So much for the Jazz being geniuses. Hey, I'm all for him being moved out of personnel matters especially with Jerry West onboard, but if Doc had blown 2 high picks like the Jazz did, there'd be a much better case for spitting on his grave like this.

Lol.. we had no SF whatsoever. Development or not there was nothing in front nor in back of him that was of greater superior talent at the SF position. Of course it would've depended on Doc giving him playing time or nor but that's another topic. But the "no time for development cause we were a contender" take is laughable in my book. Hell our team wasn't really much after our core anyways for like 4-5 years cause Doc never surrounded Blake, CP3, and DJ with much of anything. If given the opportunity by Doc Ingles could've started at SF or been one of the first off the bench if Doc wasn't on that bullsh*t

Easy, fella, LOL. Ingles' numbers his first two years were pretty modest, see above: 5 ppg in 21 mpg--indeed his minutes were cut his 2nd year. He was not the player he is now.

Matt Barnes started at SF @ 30 mpg that year: we won 56 games and finished with the 3rd seed. No way you expect your 27 year old rookie 15th man--whom I believe had an unimpressive camp offensively--to get significant minutes, certainly not start.

Utah won 38 games that year and for them it was WTH, give Joe some burn.

I wouldn't swing too far. He impressed Doc and the other coaches, Doc wanted him back, so there had to be some reason. It was an oversight as Doc said, they were trying to be cute, should have cut old Hedo instead since Hedo was declining and wasn't that good, but Hedo had shown he could shoot and be a small ball PF, and you know how much Doc likes shooting. Maybe part of the reason they didn't play him too many minutes in games is because they liked what he was doing in practice and didn't want other teams to see too much of him. Clippers didn't have a true capologist and that was what hurt them with the initial Dudley trade to save cap space.

He carved out minutes on Utah, clearly there was a reason. If the Clippers brought him back he would have ended being the backup SF. That season we ended up bringing in Jordan Hamilton and others and went into the playoffs with no backup SF. We used the 3 guard lineup. To start the season, CDR was on the roster, but he flamed out, so he would have been useful. With how close that Houston series was, one more shooter, one more guy to defend could have been the difference. He wasn't inconsequential, but it wasn't some massive mistake either.

[MartinToVaught]

I don't believe for a second that Doc wanted Ingles back. If he really wanted Ingles that much, he wouldn't have let an injury to Jordan Farmar of all players prevent him from giving Ingles a roster spot.

The whole narrative about Doc wanting him back and trying to do salary cap gymnastics to keep him was just an excuse he made up to deflect blame/criticism when Ingles started flourishing in Utah. It doesn't even hold up to any scrutiny: since when was GM Doc capable of performing "salary cap gymnastics"? He proved over and over again with his moves that he did not understand the basics of the salary cap.

[esqtvd]

Lol.. we had no SF whatsoever. Development or not there was nothing in front nor in back of him that was of greater superior talent at the SF position. Of course it would've depended on Doc giving him playing time or nor but that's another topic. But the "no time for development cause we were a contender" take is laughable in my book. Hell our team wasn't really much after our core anyways for like 4-5 years cause Doc never surrounded Blake, CP3, and DJ with much of anything. If given the opportunity by Doc Ingles could've started at SF or been one of the first off the bench if Doc wasn't on that bullsh*t

Easy, fella, LOL. Ingles' numbers his first two years were pretty modest, see above: 5 ppg in 21 mpg--indeed his minutes were cut his 2nd year. He was not the player he is now.

Matt Barnes started at SF @ 30 mpg that year: we won 56 games and finished with the 3rd seed. No way you expect your 27 year old rookie 15th man--whom I believe had an unimpressive camp offensively--to get significant minutes, certainly not start.

Utah won 38 games that year and for them it was WTH, give Joe some burn.

I wouldn't swing too far. He impressed Doc and the other coaches, Doc wanted him back, so there had to be some reason. It was an oversight as Doc said, they were trying to be cute, should have cut old Hedo instead since Hedo was declining and wasn't that good, but Hedo had shown he could shoot and be a small ball PF, and you know how much Doc likes shooting. Maybe part of the reason they didn't play him too many minutes in games is because they liked what he was doing in practice and didn't want other teams to see too much of him. Clippers didn't have a true capologist and that was what hurt them with the initial Dudley trade to save cap space.

He carved out minutes on Utah, clearly there was a reason. If the Clippers brought him back he would have ended being the backup SF. That season we ended up bringing in Jordan Hamilton and others and went into the playoffs with no backup SF. We used the 3 guard lineup. To start the season, CDR was on the roster, but he flamed out, so he would have been useful. With how close that Houston series was, one more shooter, one more guy to defend could have been the difference. He wasn't inconsequential, but it wasn't some massive mistake either.

With only 5/2 in 21 mpg, would Ingles have got minutes in the playoffs? Only maybe and you certainly couldn't have foreseen that in October. As for Utah, they took a flyer on him, just like they did with Jordan Hamilton the same day. They got lucky, just like they got unlucky squandering the #5 pick on Dante Exum.

[og15]

I don't believe for a second that Doc wanted Ingles back. If he really wanted Ingles that much, he wouldn't have let an injury to Jordan Farmar of all players prevent him from giving Ingles a roster spot.

The whole narrative about Doc wanting him back and trying to do salary cap gymnastics to keep him was just an excuse he made up to deflect blame/criticism when Ingles started flourishing in Utah. It doesn't even hold up to any scrutiny: since when was GM Doc capable of performing "salary cap gymnastics"? He proved over and over again with his moves that he did not understand the basics of the salary cap.

I would agree with this except for that fact that both Doc and Snyder made comments about this in November of 2014. Ingles was not specifically flourishing in Utah at that time, he had just played 3 games.

Clippers played Utah on November 3rd, 2014. At that time, Ingles was averaging 0.7 ppg, 1.0 rpg. 1.7 apg, 16.7% FG. He played 10 minutes and had 2 assists vs the Clippers. Despite those unimpressive stats, here's what Doc said about him and also what Snyder about the Clippers debacle:

“I like him,” Clippers coach Doc Rivers said before Monday’s 107-101 win over Ingles and his new team. “We were definitely trying to find ways to keep him. I think he’s going to be a good player.”

The problem for Ingles was that the Clippers had an overfull roster and had to make a hard decision before final rosters were due to the NBA office with between 13-15 players.

Rivers believes the Australian small forward “would’ve found his way on the floor with us” if L.A. could’ve held on to the 27-year-old.

“I just think a guy that knows how to play when you put him on a good team, he can be really good,” Rivers continued. “And he’s a great guy that you want on your team.”

“We had a need (for another wing). There’s always guys that you recognize their ability and circumstances don’t allow you to keep them,” Snyder said of the Clippers’ situation. “But from that standpoint for us, he’s a settling influence (with) his ability to pass the ball. … He’s obviously a good fit for our group.”

Rivers admitted the Clippers were hoping nobody would claim Ingles off of waivers while they tried to figure out a way to re-sign him, which would’ve required cutting a player. He laughed and blamed former Jazz general manager Kevin O’Connor.

“We took the game and lost if you want me to be frank. We thought we could sneak him,” Rivers said, adding that the Clippers waived him during a busy time when perhaps others might not notice the transaction. He added about the Jazz, “They won.”

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865614756/Jazz-winners-as-Clippers-gamble-and-lose-on-cutting-Joe-Ingles.html

Factually, the statement you made is incorrect . Before the game, while Ingles was averaging the stats I posted and playing 10 mpg, Doc said that. I've always maintained that there's no need revise history to try and make a point, it does the opposite and just makes one look like they lack an objectivity.

The injury to Farmar was a factor, but it was Cunningham playing well through the pre-season and his 23 point game vs the Warriors that helped him out. He showed tenacity on defense and he could get to the line. The Farmar injury which ended up not being that bad would have meant the team had no backup PG. Farmar played 36 games and 15 mpg before he was waived, so the backup PG had minutes to fill.

With only 5/2 in 21 mpg, would Ingles have got minutes in the playoffs? Only maybe and you certainly couldn't have foreseen that in October. As for Utah, they took a flyer on him, just like they did with Jordan Hamilton the same day. They got lucky, just like they got unlucky squandering the #5 pick on Dante Exum.

Luc Mbah was our starting SF in 15-16 playoffs and averaged 3/2 in 17 mpg. Rivers averaged 7/2 in 19 minutes and was in the playoff rotation as the 7th man. 100% Ingles would get minutes. Players minutes aren't based on their pts/rebs numbers, but what they can bring. Ingles would being another ball handler, he would be the best playmaker off the bench, another shooter, and he was already showing that he could defend. He was averaging 9/4/4 per 36 by the end of the season and shot 35.6% 3PT. Clippers were starving for help at the wing in the regular season and then in the whole playoffs, but none of the bench guys were trustworthy. also Hawes had lost his role so there were some small ball PF minutes available. Redick was playing 39 mpg because of that lack of depth. Ingles would have easily been in the rotation, he would take the 5 mpg and 11 games Hedo played, and he would reduce both Barnes and Redick's minutes.

Utah wasn't just taking a flyer, look at the article I quoted. Doc wouldn't have regret about waiving him about a week later and while he was doing nothing impressive statistically and just playing 10 mpg if he didn't think he was a guy that would become a roster player. He didn't say similar things about other players they waived in training camp. Also Quin Synder was familiar with Ingles from being an assistant with CSKA Moscow while Ingles was with Barcelona which is why after just one practice Ingles was already in the rotation.