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2019 - 2021 Free-Agents

Moderators: QRich3, og15, TrueLAfan

Who will be a member of the Clippers this summer?

Poll ended at Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:58 pm

Patrick Beverley
2
22%
Jimmy Butler
2
22%
DeMarcus Cousins
0
No votes
Kevin Durant
0
No votes
Al Horford
2
22%
Kyrie Irving
0
No votes
Kawhi Leonard
3
33%
Klay Thompson
0
No votes
An Ex-Clipper (Harris, Jordan, Aminu, Green, Temple, etc.)
0
No votes
Someone acquired by trade
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 9

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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#61 » by QRich3 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:43 pm

Now that's just an exaggeration. I get that looking at it from inside as a Warriors fan it might look like this epic never before seen stuff, but they haven't redefined basketball like that or anything close to it. They play an off-ball motion type of basketball that has been in the league longer than Rick Adelman (and not many teams have tried to replicate recently), they have this reputation of taking a lot of threes, but they aren't even an outlier in that front, they've only led the league in 3s attempted once (that year they lost), and barely. People just remember Steph taking crazy threes and think they take a lot of them. Even their death line up thing is not new, as the Heat were already playing 5-out switching defense before Draymond Green was in the league.

They have done things well though, that part is true, they've made the right decisions at the right time and had the luck of things going their way when their window opened. But other than Warriors fans, I doubt they're gonna be remembered any different than any other dynasty teams. Not trying to hate or wind you up, I honestly think that.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#62 » by Quake Griffin » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:07 pm

QRich3 wrote:Now that's just an exaggeration. I get that looking at it from inside as a Warriors fan it might look like this epic never before seen stuff, but they haven't redefined basketball like that or anything close to it. They play an off-ball motion type of basketball that has been in the league longer than Rick Adelman (and not many teams have tried to replicate recently), they have this reputation of taking a lot of threes, but they aren't even an outlier in that front, they've only led the league in 3s attempted once (that year they lost), and barely. People just remember Steph taking crazy threes and think they take a lot of them. Even their death line up thing is not new, as the Heat were already playing 5-out switching defense before Draymond Green was in the league.

They have done things well though, that part is true, they've made the right decisions at the right time and had the luck of things going their way when their window opened. But other than Warriors fans, I doubt they're gonna be remembered any different than any other dynasty teams. Not trying to hate or wind you up, I honestly think that.

Almost hopped out of my chair seeing him act like they invented this.

Thank you for this post.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#63 » by esqtvd » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:27 pm

wco81 wrote:First of all, there’s no such title or accomplishment or award such as GOAT.

That’s just something people on the Internet to discuss.

Secondly, MJ, Magic and Bird played with some of the greatest players in those eras.

None of them singlehandedly won it by themselves. There was a 50 greatest NBA players about 10-20 years ago. That list included players like Pippen, Kareem and McHale.

And I doubt those players would look down on KD for not being alpha dog, except maybe MJ.

KD has a good chance to meet or exceed the ring counts of Magic and Bird. But he may decide to move on after this season.

Anyways, if KD had come to the Warriors in a trade or was drafted by them, the haters would still hate.



Nothing to do with GSW as a whole. Obviously a LOT of people [including your humble correspondent], and including the writers, etc. who vote on the awards, simply are not going to give KD much credit for it.

His complaints about that fact are the reason for this thread.

If he ever leads a team to glory as alpha dog--say the Clippers :)--he's going to get into the GOAT conversation. Not Top 5, but just under. He's quite a remarkable player but right now, a lot of us see him as riding the cart, not pulling it.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#64 » by wco81 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:44 am

QRich3 wrote:Now that's just an exaggeration. I get that looking at it from inside as a Warriors fan it might look like this epic never before seen stuff, but they haven't redefined basketball like that or anything close to it. They play an off-ball motion type of basketball that has been in the league longer than Rick Adelman (and not many teams have tried to replicate recently), they have this reputation of taking a lot of threes, but they aren't even an outlier in that front, they've only led the league in 3s attempted once (that year they lost), and barely. People just remember Steph taking crazy threes and think they take a lot of them. Even their death line up thing is not new, as the Heat were already playing 5-out switching defense before Draymond Green was in the league.

They have done things well though, that part is true, they've made the right decisions at the right time and had the luck of things going their way when their window opened. But other than Warriors fans, I doubt they're gonna be remembered any different than any other dynasty teams. Not trying to hate or wind you up, I honestly think that.


Lot of teams have played “small ball” particularly Nelson’s teams, D’Antoni. Even Lebrons Heat teams since they didn’t really depend on post play, though they weren’t proficient 3point shooters, they had one of the greatest 3 point shooter in history.

Of course Popovich had his teams pass rather than depend on iso but they played off Duncan and while they shot some 3s, Pop has said he’s loath to have them shoot as many as other teams.

So no they weren’t the first. But they’ve been wildly successful with it. Forget the titles, just look at the regular season. Iirc, the best 3-year stretch in league history.

So teams are trying to get their own death lineups and centers and PFs who can’t help space the floor are devalued compared to wings who can shoot a decent percentage and defend 3 or 4 positions. Look at the Heat trying to dump Whiteside, just a couple of years after giving him a huge contract. They are reluctant to trade someone like Josh Richardson, who’s shot decently and defends.

It just goes to show how in a few years, teams have completely reversed the criteria for evaluating and valuing players. Why is that?

Well the NBA, like every other sports league, is a copycat league. Not all teams try to emulate the most successful team but others do.

Will teams go another way in roster construction in say 3-5 years? Maybe, but more players are practicing and taking 30-35 footers than before.

Unless the NBA makes big rule changes to swing the balance from perimeter play (reinstate more aggressive hand checking in the regular season) to the paint, pace and space will remain popular.

Now Kerr freely admits that he learned a lot from Pop and those D’Antoni Suns teams. But the wrinkle he introduced, which he developed with the Warriors analytics guy at the time, was to try to make 300 passes per game because they’d noted that teams which reach that benchmark had high correlation to winning.

That’s why Kerr convinced Curry to limit going one on one off the dribble. So Curry is doing a lot less of the “flair” plays even since his MVP years, trying to do more catch and shoots.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#65 » by QRich3 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:54 am

wco81 wrote:It just goes to show how in a few years, teams have completely reversed the criteria for evaluating and valuing players. Why is that?

Not because of the Warriors specifically, I can tell you that. The league is always in constant motion as rules and strategies change, after Jordan it was every team trying to have iso guys that could score on their own, after the hand checking rule it was players that can defend the paint and protect the rim, and since 3PT volume has increased, it's been guys that can shoot and defend in space.

That doesn't mean it's the Warriors sparking the change, not at all. They haven't been the first team doing the pace and space thing, or stressing ball movement, or switching heavily on defense, nor are they the team that does it the most. Just the team with more wins. Like I said, there aren't even many teams trying to copy their system, since it's very dependent on talent that other teams don't have. Just like teams didn't try to emulate the Lakers in 2003 because you can't emulate having Shaq. Yet they fit your criteria for winning a lot while the league was changing.

The Warriors aren't successful because they've had some groundbreaking player evaluation techniques or anything like that, they just made the right decisions and got the right players at the right moment, and developed them in the right way. Just like most winning teams ever.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#66 » by esqtvd » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:42 am

QRich3 wrote:
The Warriors aren't successful because they've had some groundbreaking player evaluation techniques or anything like that, they just made the right decisions and got the right players at the right moment, and developed them in the right way. Just like most winning teams ever.



I think we're still in the you-can't-win-without-a megastar [maybe two] [maybe two-and-a-half] paradigm. Every title in this century has been won by a team with a first-ballot HOFer except Larry Brown's Pistons. Before that, it's Jordan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Magic and Bird. [Make what you will of Isiah's Pistons.]

Maybe the Dubs could win titles without Steph but I wouldn't want to try.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#67 » by wco81 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:02 am

They definitely lucked out as far as Curry, Klay and Draymond vastly outperforming their draft positions.

But it's what you do with those players, how you develop them and how you put a system together to maximize their strengths.

Because I don't think there's any doubt that if they kept Mark Jackson as coach, they wouldn't have had nearly the same amount of success.

Jackson hasn't gotten a sniff at another NBA HC gig since. Understandable when someone else comes in and takes pretty much the same roster and gets much better results.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#68 » by esqtvd » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:37 am

wco81 wrote:They definitely lucked out as far as Curry, Klay and Draymond vastly outperforming their draft positions.

But it's what you do with those players, how you develop them and how you put a system together to maximize their strengths.

Because I don't think there's any doubt that if they kept Mark Jackson as coach, they wouldn't have had nearly the same amount of success.

Jackson hasn't gotten a sniff at another NBA HC gig since. Understandable when someone else comes in and takes pretty much the same roster and gets much better results.



Aside from Larry Brown's freak Pistons championship, you might say you can't coach a team into a title, but you can coach a team out of one.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#69 » by Popovich » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:24 am

I would have to agree with a GSW fan here. They did change a way basketball is played , a lot. At least that is how GSW were described overseas and in coaching , journalist circles specially. I do remember that G.Popovich even said that he is not a fan of this new pattern of raining threes style but that it is advancement and that other team will have to adjust to it sooner or later. In my eyes Houston Rockets adopted such an approach, I don't say they copied GSW but their games are driven by the same engine. And it is not only about small ball. Look all this was made possible when NBA rules changed towards more protection of shooters. It is not a classic small ball with fast breaks and direct drives to the hoop. It is more like this... find a mismatch , create advantage (usually quick drive) and than kick out pass directly to open 3pt spot. If not directly than ball is moving until it finds an open shooter because defenses can't recover as fast as they can move the ball after creating that initial advantage. I think you would agree that before GSW we could not see a many teams giving up sure or at least good lay up opportunity for an open 3. This is how I see this new style that was patented by GSW first in my mind , that's how international journalists and basketball commentators taught us to think about GSW when they started with their ridiculously huge series of wins that season way before Durant came.
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#70 » by LAClippersFilm » Tue Oct 2, 2018 7:24 pm

Clippers were in Durant's top 3 in 2016, maybe they get another look at him this summer.

Pair durant w/...anyone. That's the dream.
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Free Agency Ponderings 

Post#71 » by Ranma » Wed Oct 3, 2018 5:14 am

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Kyrie Plans to Re-Sign with Celtics 

Post#72 » by Ranma » Thu Oct 4, 2018 11:24 pm

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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#73 » by esqtvd » Fri Oct 5, 2018 7:26 am

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This is why you hire a Lee Jenkins for even a million dollars a year [!?]

to try to create an environment like this


$1M is chickenfeed if it gets a Kyrie to sign or re-sign with your franchise

$1M is petty cash in the NBA--limos, food, flights, parties

hell, they don't even need equipment

a ball, a shirt and some shorts


the players even get their sneakers for free :wink:
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Having Another Go at Durantula? 

Post#74 » by Ranma » Fri Oct 5, 2018 9:03 pm

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Chris Haynes, Yahoo Sports (10/5/18)
The Clippers are also expected to be in the mix next summer for the services of Toronto Raptors All-Star forward Kawhi Leonard and Golden State Warriors forward Kevin Durant.

Sources: Timberwolves, Clippers Discussing Jimmy Butler Trade
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Re: 2019 & 2020 Free-Agents 

Post#75 » by wco81 » Fri Oct 5, 2018 10:41 pm

I don’t know, it may be Haynes try8ng to drum up hype for his new gig.
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Not Holding My Breath for Durant 

Post#76 » by Ranma » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:27 am

wco81 wrote:I don’t know, it may be Haynes try8ng to drum up hype for his new gig.


I agree. I don't get the sense that we're in play for Durant right now, but that's only because I expect him to re-sign with the Warriors on a max contract. Maybe he'll want to silence the critics and leave the juggernaut team to prove that he can carry a team to a championship, especially since I don't anticipate Golden State to be able to afford to keep both him and Klay Thompson with Stephen Curry maxed out and Draymond Green's new deal on the horizon. Until Durant gives me cause to think otherwise, I'm going to assume that he'll be unavailable to everyone outside of Golden State.

As I've said elsewhere, I really like our chances at signing Kawhi Leonard this summer and eventually pairing him with another star player once Gallinari's contract is off the books. There's even a decent chance of bringing back Tobias Harris to be our 3rd star.
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Pitching the Greek Freak 

Post#77 » by Ranma » Mon Oct 8, 2018 6:29 pm

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Oh, The Humanity! 

Post#78 » by Wammy Giveaway » Mon Oct 8, 2018 6:53 pm

Future Clippers lineup: Antetokounmpo-Butler-Leonard-Harris-wild card

That's a pretty good Big 3. If Harris can make the All-Star game this year and continue a consistent, consecutive streak, now that's a starting lineup Doc Rivers will dare not leave (though I understand why a different coach would be preferred given Doc's shortcomings).

But then where do Shai-Guy and Brock-Rob fit in? I don't imagine Beverley, Bradley, Harrell or any of the bench players staying. If the rookies are traded to get any of the superstars, then West will be going against his own executive ideals. Normally when West hand picks a player in the draft, the team keeps them. Lakers kept Kobe through and through, Grizzlies kept Gasol (until West left, but that's another story), and Warriors kept Thompson to stay in West's good graces (he threatened to quit if the Kevin Love trade went through). It's expected that the Clippers keep their rookies, but if West drafted rookies just to sucker up teams into a superstar trade...

Holy censored!
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Beyond the Realm of Possibility 

Post#79 » by Ranma » Tue Oct 9, 2018 1:41 am

Wammy Giveaway wrote:Future Clippers lineup: Antetokounmpo-Butler-Leonard-Harris-wild card

That's a pretty good Big 3.


I hate to burst your bubble, Wammy, but there's no way we (or any other team, for that matter) can afford that lineup. Kawhi and Giannis are both true max-worthy players who would take up the bulk of our salary cap for the foreseeable future. That wouldn't be the issue. While Butler is not really worthy of a max investment, odds are he'll be paid like one because some team will be desperate to add his short-term contributions. Tobias, on the other hand, is neither max worthy or likely to get an offer approaching that level, but that doesn't mean he won't be significantly overpaid, which is a viable possibility.

As it stands right now, we'd have to unload Gallinari's contract to even afford bringing back Tobias long-term and open up a salary slot for a 2nd max-level player. Even if both Butler and Tobias took discounts to sign/re-sign with the Clips, it wouldn't allow for 2 max-level free-agent signings in the near term.
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Not So Fast, Naysayers (Myselft Included) 

Post#80 » by Ranma » Tue Oct 9, 2018 8:53 pm

wco81 wrote:I don’t know, it may be Haynes try8ng to drum up hype for his new gig.

Ranma wrote:I agree. I don't get the sense that we're in play for Durant right now, but that's only because I expect him to re-sign with the Warriors on a max contract. Maybe he'll want to silence the critics and leave the juggernaut team to prove that he can carry a team to a championship, especially since I don't anticipate Golden State to be able to afford to keep both him and Klay Thompson with Stephen Curry maxed out and Draymond Green's new deal on the horizon. Until Durant gives me cause to think otherwise, I'm going to assume that he'll be unavailable to everyone outside of Golden State.

As I've said elsewhere, I really like our chances at signing Kawhi Leonard this summer and eventually pairing him with another star player once Gallinari's contract is off the books. There's even a decent chance of bringing back Tobias Harris to be our 3rd star.


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