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Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:43 pm**

I was reading this article about Ingram's poor fit with Lebron this year, how he was starting to emerge last year but has regressed so far with Lebron-
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/12/13/18138537/brandon-ingram-lakers-lebron

Realistic trade considerations aside (since this would never actually happen), I thought a hypothetical straight-up trade between the 2 LA franchises would be interesting to ponder-
1. Lakers need more developed players to surround Lebron with, especially those good at shooting
2. Ingram is young and still developing, and fits into our long term/ cap space plans better
3. Ingram would likely improve his play on the Clippers, and Tobias should play at least as well as he is now on the Lakers

This is the epitome of a bird in the hand vs. 2 in the bush trade.

The problem for the Lakers is that if they want to keep Tobias for more than a year, it will create the same problem we will be facing- Tobias is an excellent player, but do you want to commit one of your max slots to him (regardless of whether he gets max, near max, etc.) So for that reason it wouldn't work for the Lakers long term, even though Tobias would clearly improve their team this year. I mean I think they'd be really, really good, enough for a home series against GSW in the Western conference finals.

From the Clipper side, I would do it mainly because Ingram still has a lot of promise, and we could still free up a lot of cap space with him on the team, with some other moves. Having both Shai and Ingram on the team might make for a lot of fun basketball.

So I would do it from the Clipper side despite Ingram's struggles this year and still clearly developing game, but I don't think it works for the Lakers (thought it would have a huge short term benefit for them.)

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:01 pm**

The Clippers last trade with the Lakers was 35 years ago - a draft day trade of Byron Scott for Norm Nixon.

With Jerry West, I don't see the Clippers trading with the Lakers ever again.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:24 pm**

I think West would make any move if he thought it was a clear win but so far I'm not sure what Ingram does well. Am I missing some great skill in his game?

Posted: **Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:09 am**

It would depend on what we intend to do, but for the most part, Tobias Harris would be the preferred choice over Brandon Ingram from a competitive standpoint. However, if we intend to sign two premier free agents, Ingram would be more appealing as a trade asset who is cost-controlled and represents still unrealized upside as madmaxmedia pointed out.

Ingram's trade value is only short-term and expiring if he continues to stall from a developmental standpoint. Harris is an impending free agent, so Ingram is the more valued trade asset at the moment, but I don't see a trade being realistic. The Clippers intend to keep Harris long-term and the Lakers won't trade for him unless they have assurances that he'll re-sign long term.

Posted: **Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:06 am**

Definitely, but I'm the closest thing you can find to an Ingram stan outside of the Lakers fandom. He's the kind of guy our front office likes too, two way guy with length that can playmake and projects to shoot it at least decently. He's like the Shai G of forwards lol

Plus, I don't want to pay Tobi what he's gonna make either way.

But I don't think the Lakers do this, specially when they can sign Tobi outright if we don't want him.

Posted: **Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:35 pm**

I understand some people wanting to move Toby as a upcoming FA but don't you want the return to be somewhat more certain? Seems like Ingram has trouble at the FT line. Almost Shaq like trouble.

Posted: **Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:56 pm**

Galloisdaman wrote:I think West would make any move if he thought it was a clear win but so far I'm not sure what Ingram does well. Am I missing some great skill in his game?

You are not missing some great skill in his game, although he took a big step forward last season and played pretty efficiently (albeit on a bad team) with a line of 16.1/5.3/3.9 on 47% FG and 39% 3PG (this was with significant improvement over the 2nd half of the year.) He statistically outplayed Kuzma after the All-Star break.

But he doesn't have any great fundamental skills (yet?...ever?), which is I think a main reason he isn't meshing well with Lebron.

Galloisdaman wrote:I understand some people wanting to move Toby as a upcoming FA but don't you want the return to be somewhat more certain? Seems like Ingram has trouble at the FT line. Almost Shaq like trouble.

I don't disagree at all. But his trade value is limited by his impending free agency, and I think the Clippers would ideally take on less salary in a trade to stay flexible in free agency. So that would eliminate trades for veteran players with bigger contracts (unless it was a star they keep long term), or for young standouts on rookie contracts (who have too much value.) But yeah, I just wanted to discuss the idea of the trade (or a trade like that.)

If this was already the 2nd or 3rd year of Lebron's LA contract, then they would be more desperate to trade for immediate help, even if that help was entering free agency after the year ended. Or imagine if Klay Thompson or Draymond was lost for the year due to injury- do you go for that immediate help now because another player could make you the favorite? Hard to say. Their roster/cap situation is also interesting going forward, both teams want to improve sooner than later, but want to keep cap flexibility for this offseason.

Posted: **Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:58 pm**

QRich3 wrote:Definitely, but I'm the closest thing you can find to an Ingram stan outside of the Lakers fandom. He's the kind of guy our front office likes too, two way guy with length that can playmake and projects to shoot it at least decently. He's like the Shai G of forwards lol

Plus, I don't want to pay Tobi what he's gonna make either way.

But I don't think the Lakers do this, specially when they can sign Tobi outright if we don't want him.

Yeah, I just wanted to hear people's thoughts on the trade itself as obviously it's not actual feasible possibility. Just thought about it when I read that article about Ingram, and what the Lakers need. And that dovetails with your second point about how much we should or shouldn't pay Tobias.

Posted: **Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:14 pm**

Some fans spoke about dealing Gallo as a straight contract dump. That was in the offseason and he was coming off a bad injury season. I think Gallos contract is actually pretty fair so I'd be surprised if the front office viewed him that way but if they wanted to keep Harris it might mean Gallo in this type of trade. I personally would hate seeing Gallo in a Lakers jersey. No offense intended to Lakers fans. I do remember years ago Lebron spoke well of Gallo.

Posted: **Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:36 pm**

Galloisdaman wrote:Some fans spoke about dealing Gallo as a straight contract dump. That was in the offseason and he was coming off a bad injury season. I think Gallos contract is actually pretty fair so I'd be surprised if the front office viewed him that way but if they wanted to keep Harris it might mean Gallo in this type of trade. I personally would hate seeing Gallo in a Lakers jersey. No offense intended to Lakers fans. I do remember years ago Lebron spoke well of Gallo.

I agree that a healthy Gallo would be of tremendous help to LeBron, which is why we should avoid sending him to them since helping the Lakers actually hurts the Clippers' cause, in general. Still, if Lonzo or Ingram were on the table for him, I would most definitely do it even if it hurts us in the short-term since the long-term value is so much higher.

I was one of those who advocated trading Gallo as a contract dump, but I have to acknowledge he is more off of a postseason contributor who will be an expiring contract next season provided that he's healthy. However, his cap hit makes it difficult to trade him for value without taking back bad contracts.

If we had to deal him--whether it's to fit in two max players, retain Tobias or presented an offer we can't refuse--it would ideally involve getting back large expiring contracts and unprotected first-round picks even if they are for a few years in the future.

Posted: **Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:49 pm**

Ranma wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Some fans spoke about dealing Gallo as a straight contract dump. That was in the offseason and he was coming off a bad injury season. I think Gallos contract is actually pretty fair so I'd be surprised if the front office viewed him that way but if they wanted to keep Harris it might mean Gallo in this type of trade. I personally would hate seeing Gallo in a Lakers jersey. No offense intended to Lakers fans. I do remember years ago Lebron spoke well of Gallo.

I agree that a healthy Gallo would be of tremendous help to LeBron, which is why we should avoid sending him to them since helping the Lakers actually hurts the Clippers' cause, in general. Still, if Lonzo or Ingram were on the table for him, I would most definitely do it even if it hurts us in the short-term since the long-term value is so much higher.

I was one of those who advocated trading Gallo as a contract dump, but I have to acknowledge he is more off a postseason contributor who will be an expiring contract next season provided that he's healthy. However, his cap hit makes it difficult to trade him for value without taking back bad contracts.

If we had to deal him--whether it's to fit in two max players, retain Tobias or presented an offer we can't refuse--it would ideally involve getting back large expiring contracts and unprotected first-round picks even if they are for a few years in the future.

Gallo in a Lakers jersey would be painful for me. I do not like Lebron and Gallo would look plain weird in those colors. Years ago (before his knee injuries) Gallo used to ask his coaches to guard Kobe and Lebron. He liked the challenge. I think the Clippers front office has a good idea of what they hope to do but you can never tell for sure what a UFA will do so if they want a UFA they might seek a trade for them this season if possible. They really have to decide if they will be willing to give Harris his number. If not that is a whole different ball game.

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