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OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks

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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#261 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:33 pm

og15 wrote:Ballmer and the FO have agreed that they made a lot of roster mistakes in the previous era. Why are we arguing about things that people on the inside have already settled?

If the front office was what it is now, things would have been different. I'm not sure what the purpose of trying to justify and defend everything they did those years is, when they themselves wouldn't even do the same.

Yea, the FO is better, much better, we should be very happy about this.



me, I found it interesting to go back through the actual history of it all since the narrative is insufficient in many ways
for one thing, it doesn't blame Sterling anywhere near enough

and at the moment, we're discussing Bradley, which is not ancient history
in fact, people forget how lousy Beverley was the first 2 months of the season too, shooting about 35%/30%
there was more to it all than just Bradley sucking

indeed Shai and Beverley are playing lights out at the moment and their improvement is an overlooked reason for our current hot streak

March [10-1]

Bev 44.2%/45.2% 8.8 ppg
Shai 50.9%/57.7% 14.0 ppg
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#262 » by og15 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:00 am

I mentioned it earlier in the season that Beverley's shooting had improved, though his early percentages were still dragging his totals down.

Beverley:
Game 1-20: 34.6% FG, 30.7% 3T
Game 21-40: 43.0% FG, 43.0% 3PT
Game 40-60: 43.5% FG, 41.9% 3PT
Game 61-74: 43.% FG, 44.1% 3PT

He isn't really on a hot streak recently, it's jut what he's been doing for the past 50+ games, but because it took a while for his percentages to adjust, people kept looking at him as shooting poorly. If you average out game 1-30 he's at 35.2 FG, 32.7% 3PT, so 30 games in, many people are still looking at that and thinking he's not shooting so well, but in fact, he'd been shooting fairly well from games 21-30 (37.0% FG, 37.9% 3PT), especially from 3PT. It was even really his first 10 games that were the worst, even game 11-20 wasn't that bad.

Yes, Sterling was a huge factor. I think the guys around who didn't push a super rich owner who was willing to spend money on menial things, let alone improving his front office are also to blame. I get that maybe some guys might have wanted to protect their jobs and roles, that's always possible since if happens in all types of organizations, but as soon as Sterling was out and Ballmer was in, the guys who had experience in other teams should have been right on it in terms of saying "hey, we need more minds and bodies". Better later than never though.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#263 » by esqtvd » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:36 am

og15 wrote:I mentioned it earlier in the season that Beverley's shooting had improved, though his early percentages were still dragging his totals down.

Beverley:
Game 1-20: 34.6% FG, 30.7% 3T
Game 21-40: 43.0% FG, 43.0% 3PT
Game 40-60: 43.5% FG, 41.9% 3PT
Game 61-74: 43.% FG, 44.1% 3PT

He isn't really on a hot streak recently, it's jut what he's been doing for the past 50+ games, but because it took a while for his percentages to adjust, people kept looking at him as shooting poorly. If you average out game 1-30 he's at 35.2 FG, 32.7% 3PT, so 30 games in, many people are still looking at that and thinking he's not shooting so well, but in fact, he'd been shooting fairly well from games 21-30 (37.0% FG, 37.9% 3PT), especially from 3PT. It was even really his first 10 games that were the worst, even game 11-20 wasn't that bad.



Same thing happened with Bradley, whose first couple months were among the worst in NBA history. Few noticed as he became productive again because they already had their knives out for him [and Doc] and only looked at his full-season averages.

The reviled Bradley-Beverley starting backcourt would probably be fine now since both have overcome the injuries that ended both their seasons last year.


og15 wrote:Yes, Sterling was a huge factor. I think the guys around who didn't push a super rich owner who was willing to spend money on menial things, let alone improving his front office are also to blame. I get that maybe some guys might have wanted to protect their jobs and roles, that's always possible since if happens in all types of organizations, but as soon as Sterling was out and Ballmer was in, the guys who had experience in other teams should have been right on it in terms of saying "hey, we need more minds and bodies". Better later than never though.



It's an interesting thought experiment as to what might have happened in the CP-BG Golden Age with Steve Ballmer as the owner instead of that toad. FTR, when Ballmer took over, he didn't immediately throw his billions around. As PoBO, Doc had to make a pitch and presentation for every expansion of the budget. The line between The Toad and Hardcore Steve is not easily drawn.

I like analyzing these things instead of reducing it to heroes and villains, geniuses and dolts. The fact is, Jerry West would never have agreed to work for Donald Sterling at any price, and the duties of guys like math maven Michael Winger and Executive Director in Charge of **** Lee Jenkins would be done by high-school interns.

Ballmer sent his private jet for JaMychal Green and Garrett Temple when we traded for them. Sterling would have fought them about being reimbursed for buying their own bus ticket. This is just a whole different universe.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#264 » by esqtvd » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:03 am

After installing him immediately as the backup center after the trade, the sixers learn the inconvenient truth about Bobi:

    Where, exactly, does Boban fit?

    It’s a puzzle that Brett Brown acknowledged shortly after the Sixers acquired Marjanovic from the Clippers as an extra piece in the trade that brought Tobias Harris to town. And it’s one that has taken on renewed intrigue after a couple of back-to-back losses in which the team struggled on the defensive end. In Marjanovic’s last three games, the Sixers have been outscored by 18 points in his 24 minutes of action, which makes it nine out of 18 games that the big man has finished in the negative.

    On Wednesday, as the Sixers wrapped up practice in advance of Thursday night’s game against the Nets, Brown said that Marjanovic will have an opportunity over the final eight games to show that he can enter the postseason as the primary backup to Embiid. It’s a reasonable point of view, given the fact that the Sixers have also had plenty of defensive issues with Amir Johnson and Jonah Bolden on the court.

    “I intend to trying to persevere with him, and I feel for sure the last eight games of the regular season he deserves to be given that opportunity,” Brown said.

    At the same time ...

    “I always have to think and plan,” Brown continued. "If in the event that it’s just not working, who is our backup to Joel? Do you go to Ben Simmons, do you go to Mike Scott, do you go to apples-to-apple with Amir or Jonah or whatever. You’ve got decisions to make.”

https://www.philly.com/sixers/philadelphia-sixers-boban-marjanovic-brett-brown-20190328.html
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#265 » by mkwest » Mon Apr 1, 2019 2:47 pm

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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#266 » by Galloisdaman » Mon Apr 1, 2019 4:23 pm

What Ewing effect? The Knicks got worse after trading Ewing not better. The theory was a myth put up by the NY press (and some fans) to get rid of Ewing.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#267 » by illastrate » Mon Apr 1, 2019 10:57 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:What Ewing effect? The Knicks got worse after trading Ewing not better. The theory was a myth put up by the NY press (and some fans) to get rid of Ewing.


Maybe not better, but not a huge drop off as expected. The 1999-00 Knicks went 50-32 in Ewing's last season in NY. The following season, a lot of people expected them to be a lottery team. They ended up 48-34 and made the playoffs. The similarities are that the Clippers were expected to have a huge drop off after trading Blake and then going into tank mode after Tobias. None of that happened, as they've gone 17-5 since the new guys suited up.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#268 » by Galloisdaman » Mon Apr 1, 2019 11:14 pm

illastrate wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:What Ewing effect? The Knicks got worse after trading Ewing not better. The theory was a myth put up by the NY press (and some fans) to get rid of Ewing.


Maybe not better, but not a huge drop off as expected. The 1999-00 Knicks went 50-32 in Ewing's last season in NY. The following season, a lot of people expected them to be a lottery team. They ended up 48-34 and made the playoffs. The similarities are that the Clippers were expected to have a huge drop off after trading Blake and then going into tank mode after Tobias. None of that happened, as they've gone 17-5 since the new guys suited up.


In NY many fans and almost all of the NY media pushed this belief that the Knicks would be a way better team without Patrick for over a year before the trade. They said Patrick slowed them down. That they (H20, Sprree & Camby) would be so much faster without him. The thing that hurt Patrick was he had already reduced his role a lot before the trade. Turns out that while Patrick was declining due to age and injuries the Knicks did not get better without him. Their regular season record was okay but they lost in the first round for the first time in a while. Then the next season they fell off a table (30 wins).
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Re: OFFICIAL: Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanovic & Mike Scott Traded to 76ers 

Post#269 » by 50CalClips » Fri Aug 9, 2019 3:36 am

Galloisdaman wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Both sides in this discussion have legit views. Its just like many serious issues in the world. People should not ignore the other sides because they have other views. :)

actually they plus-1ed my views when YOU wrote them LOL
enough already
Avery is gone...we have a winning record...the kids will play as many minutes as they earn
and don't make a mess of it

That sounds good. I want to win. I want to make the playoffs. I may want to make the playoffs more than most folks on this board.

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REVIEWING the TRADE(s) - How the team & players turned out

Clippers 55 games with TOBIAS, GORTAT, BRADLEY
30-25 (.545)

Clippers 26 games with SHAMET, ZUBAC, JaMYCHAL
18-8 (.692) vs 12 playoffs teams and 14 non-playoff teams

---

PTS - from 114.0 to 118.4

3PA - from 24.9 to 28.2
3P% - from 38.6 to 39.1

FGA - from 87.4 to 87.8
FG% - from 47.0 to 47.7

FTA - from 28.2 to 29.6
FT% - from 79.1 to 79.7

REB - from 45.4 to 46.1
DREB - from 35.7 to 36.4
OREB - from 9.7 to 9.7

AST - from 23.0 to 26.2

STL - from 6.3 to 7.8

BLK - from 4.7 to 4.5

BLKA - from 6.0 to 5.9

PF - from 23.0 to 24.2

PFD - from 24.2 to 23.8

MOV - from 0.4 to 2.7
---

"In the Clutch" (last 5 mins, </=5pt game)

Pre-Trade(s)
17-13 record .567, 1.2 MOV
+17.4 Net Rating, 117.4 Off, 100.0 Def
56.1 eFG%, 64.0 True Shooting
45.9 Ast%, 1.22 Ast/TOV, 50.6 Reb%, 103.02 Pace
3.0 FTM on 81.7 FT%, 2.4 PFs Drawn
0.8 3PM on 40.0%

Post-Trade(s)
10-3 record .769, 2.3 MOV
+17.6 Net Rating, 114.1 Off, 96.5 Def
52.6 eFG%, 60.9 TrueShooting
60.0 Ast%, 2.10 Ast/TOV, 46.6 Reb%, 110.15 Pace
2.5 FTM on 86.8 FT%, 2.3 PFs Drawn
0.8 3PM on 37.0%



--- Some Reference Links Below ---

Clippers Schedule & Results 2018-19
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2019_games.html

NBA.com Advances Stats
https://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=02%2F08%2F2019&DateTo=04%2F17%2F2019
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#270 » by esqtvd » Fri Aug 9, 2019 9:31 pm

People underestimate how thoroughly wretched Gortat was, that a guy who was starting for us
was promptly and forever out of basketball the moment we cut him. Since he didn't play in crunch time, you see the stats before and after the trades are much closer. People liked scapegoating Bradley but his stats went way up too once he didn't have to play beside Gortat. Shai too.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#271 » by TheNewEra » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:31 pm

esqtvd wrote:People underestimate how thoroughly wretched Gortat was, that a guy who was starting for us
was promptly and forever out of basketball the moment we cut him. Since he didn't play in crunch time, you see the stats before and after the trades are much closer. People liked scapegoating Bradley but his stats went way up too once he didn't have to play beside Gortat. Shai too.


Both were bad but Bradley was a horrible player getting massive minutes. It’s not like a switch was flipped once Gortat was off the floor he was still a terrible player for the clippers who played way to many minutes. Gortat knew he was at the end of the road of his career but Bradley has been struggling with a decline since Boston. He had a jump in Memphis but let’s see if he holds up for the Lakers
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#272 » by esqtvd » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:07 pm

If you check the stats month by month actually there WAS a switch flipped. Same for Beverley. And remember they both had @ lot of trouble coming back from season-ending injuries not to mention playing with what amounted to a brand new team.

Having a winning record starting.between a stiff like Gortat and a raw rookie in Shai was no small accomplishment and a stat that should not be waved away.
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