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OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks

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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#241 » by esqtvd » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:23 am

Quake Griffin wrote:You should be looking for Shamets when you are a contender and when you are not a contender. Circumstance does not excuse stupidity.We are in win now mode according to Ballmer and we still thought Sham and Zubs at the deadline was a bright idea over "our best player". It was....Because you can win and find Shamets at the same time....like I asked for during the Lob City era and like I'm asking for now.

Develop young players in a contender culture with Blake and CP? Nah.
When we're not a contender, find vets to help develop them at all costs though.

Smart.


Yes, we already have Mr. Blue Ink around here, Mr. Green Ink. Heard you the first time.

GM Doc should have kept two lottery-protected [#15th or worse, more like 20ish] picks instead of going for 'win now' with the Chris Paul-Blake Griffin-DeAndre Jordan-JJ Redick-Jamal Crawford Clippers, the best title contender in franchise history.

Uh huh. Got it.

The Green Ink isn't necessary, Quake. We all heard you the first time and every time since then. It tends to make the eyes glaze over.


The only question remaining is who we missed out on with all these traded late-round picks when we were trying to 'win now.' With the worst scouting department in the NBA. Bring your facts. Floor's yours, bro. Bring your facts. Green ink optional.

This part I don't get. Doc is no longer GM and we're going to the playoffs. Boston gets our 20-ish pick and IDGAF.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#242 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:44 am

The green font is what you are supposed to do on this forum to convey sarcasm. It is a part of the culture here. As such, if you don’t Green font, sometimes people won’t catch the sarcasm.

Sorry. You’ll have to win another petty battle with petty insults.


Not sure why you keep calling Geoff Green a win-now move. It’s just a stupid move. Anyone can make a stupid move and say I did it to win now.

I’m not re-drafting players for you tonight. Every factor that goes into cultivating a player cannot be done via a message board. You can only ask for your team to commit to it.

We have.
I’m happy.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#243 » by esqtvd » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:51 am

Quake Griffin wrote:The green font is what you are supposed to do on this forum to convey sarcasm.


Is that right?

I don't need sarcasm or a font to make my point. I make it with facts. If you have any, floor's yours. Jeff Green played ok for us and we gave up nothing meaningful.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#244 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:24 am

But you do and you aren’t supporting any of the opinions you hold with facts. Can’t blame you. IDGAF about Geoff Green.

We search for Shamets now. We find them.
It’s great. Couldn’t be happier. Not sure why this bothers you
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#245 » by esqtvd » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:37 pm

I question your premises, is all. I don't share your faith in late draft picks or your skepticism with proven veterans who might be available because they're struggling a bit at the moment.

Although they struggled mightily in the first two months and most people gave up on them, Doc's faith and investment in Avery Bradley and Pat Beverley was vindicated. They are both back playing at career-best levels. Meanwhile, later-drafted rookies seldom are playable because they make too many mistakes even if their talent level is adequate.

I'm happy you're happy that we're not contenders anymore and can go playing the longshots in the late draft. I'd rather be a contender and damn right I'd give up late picks to reinforce the only Hall of Famer this franchise ever had.

At the moment, we're happy to be in the playoffs even though it WILL cost us one of the late picks. Well, at least some of us are happy. ;-)
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#246 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:34 am

Faith? A team should be committed to finding and cultivating talent in every way possible in order to sustain success. The draft is the easiest way to attempt that. Lol. Faith. The **** is this guy talking about.

It is truly the RARE case that a roster (in any sport) is truly ONE piece away. More than likely, if you have to deal for a piece to "win now," you aint about to win now. Cc: The Last 10 Champions and their Deadline Deals.

I am happy that we have a quality front office that has built this roster in the right way. I'd much rather start from scratch and build something the right way than be born on 3rd base and do a mediocre job of building (See Doc Rivers POBO tenure). I actually wish we had this FO during Lob City. I doubt they would have paid a FRP for Geoff Green.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#247 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:30 am

asked and answered

esqtvd wrote:
I'm happy you're happy that we're not contenders anymore and can go playing the longshots in the late draft. I'd rather be a contender and damn right I'd give up late picks to reinforce the only Hall of Famer this franchise ever had.

At the moment, we're happy to be in the playoffs even though it WILL cost us one of the late picks. Well, at least some of us are happy. ;-)



forget Jeff Green, we're giving up a [late, not a good] FRP just to PARTICIPATE in the playoffs this year

all FRPs are not created equal
that's been the sophistic part of this whole debate
just can't argue "First Round Pick" without acknowledging that a last-10 pick is worth a fraction of a first-10 pick

Doc lottery-protected our picks
gave away nothing worth sobbing about
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#248 » by TheNewEra » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:16 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Faith? A team should be committed to finding and cultivating talent in every way possible in order to sustain success. The draft is the easiest way to attempt that. Lol. Faith. The **** is this guy talking about.

It is truly the RARE case that a roster (in any sport) is truly ONE piece away. More than likely, if you have to deal for a piece to "win now," you aint about to win now. Cc: The Last 10 Champions and their Deadline Deals.

I am happy that we have a quality front office that has built this roster in the right way. I'd much rather start from scratch and build something the right way than be born on 3rd base and do a mediocre job of building (See Doc Rivers POBO tenure). I actually wish we had this FO during Lob City. I doubt they would have paid a FRP for Geoff Green.



Conversation you two are having is very interesting considering outside of Gallo everyone on the team is a late draft pick.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#249 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:24 am

All FOs are not created equal. Can't just argue draft slots w/o discussing which GMs and scouting departments did it. None of which has to do with the real discussion being, how do I want my team to pool its overall risk.

You don't beef up your scouting department and hire Jerry West so they can teach you about Avery Bradley and his hernia.

You get them for draft night.
Maybe FAs if youre lucky.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#250 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:32 am

TheNewEra wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:Faith? A team should be committed to finding and cultivating talent in every way possible in order to sustain success. The draft is the easiest way to attempt that. Lol. Faith. The **** is this guy talking about.

It is truly the RARE case that a roster (in any sport) is truly ONE piece away. More than likely, if you have to deal for a piece to "win now," you aint about to win now. Cc: The Last 10 Champions and their Deadline Deals.

I am happy that we have a quality front office that has built this roster in the right way. I'd much rather start from scratch and build something the right way than be born on 3rd base and do a mediocre job of building (See Doc Rivers POBO tenure). I actually wish we had this FO during Lob City. I doubt they would have paid a FRP for Geoff Green.



Conversation you two are having is very interesting considering outside of Gallo everyone on the team is a late draft pick.

It's not that interesting tbh. One guy is making up things as he goes along to defend Doc and the other one is dealing in reality.

Shai and Rome are lottery picks but I get your point.

Interestingly enough, Zubac went after Brice Johnson. What if we drafted Zubs? What if he was on year 3 of Doc Development and didn't spend his 1st 2 years in a wasteland? All speculative but when you see the difference between Vinny coached DeAndre and Doc coached DeAndre, you realize there's more to cultivating talent than just dropping lists of who was successful and who failed and thinking it's anywhere close to an accurate representation of the risk of an investment in a draft pick.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#251 » by TheNewEra » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:38 am

Quake Griffin wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:Faith? A team should be committed to finding and cultivating talent in every way possible in order to sustain success. The draft is the easiest way to attempt that. Lol. Faith. The **** is this guy talking about.

It is truly the RARE case that a roster (in any sport) is truly ONE piece away. More than likely, if you have to deal for a piece to "win now," you aint about to win now. Cc: The Last 10 Champions and their Deadline Deals.

I am happy that we have a quality front office that has built this roster in the right way. I'd much rather start from scratch and build something the right way than be born on 3rd base and do a mediocre job of building (See Doc Rivers POBO tenure). I actually wish we had this FO during Lob City. I doubt they would have paid a FRP for Geoff Green.



Conversation you two are having is very interesting considering outside of Gallo everyone on the team is a late draft pick.

It's not that interesting tbh. One guy is making up things as he goes along to defend Doc and the other one is dealing in reality.

Shai and Rome are lottery picks but I get your point.

Interestingly enough, Zubac went after Brice Johnson. What if we drafted Zubs? What if he was on year 3 of Doc Development and didn't spend his 1st 2 years in a wasteland? All speculative but when you see the difference between Vinny coached DeAndre and Doc coached DeAndre, you realize there's more to cultivating talent than just dropping lists of who was successful and who failed and thinking it's anywhere close to an accurate representation of the risk of an investment in a draft pick.



Yeah excluded Jerome and SGA since it seemed like anything out of the top ten was nothing of note but yeah I appreciate the direction of the front office
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#252 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:00 am

TheNewEra wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:Faith? A team should be committed to finding and cultivating talent in every way possible in order to sustain success. The draft is the easiest way to attempt that. Lol. Faith. The **** is this guy talking about.

It is truly the RARE case that a roster (in any sport) is truly ONE piece away. More than likely, if you have to deal for a piece to "win now," you aint about to win now. Cc: The Last 10 Champions and their Deadline Deals.

I am happy that we have a quality front office that has built this roster in the right way. I'd much rather start from scratch and build something the right way than be born on 3rd base and do a mediocre job of building (See Doc Rivers POBO tenure). I actually wish we had this FO during Lob City. I doubt they would have paid a FRP for Geoff Green.



Conversation you two are having is very interesting considering outside of Gallo everyone on the team is a late draft pick.



See my followup reply to Quake. And my previous look at late draft picks [Eric Bledsoe being one-out-of-10 who was of some worth in the last 10 years.]
:D
The fact is that for every Montrezl there's a Sam Dekker once you're out of the lottery. Shall we do the math? [We already did it.]

My point remains: Steve Ballmer decided it's more important for the Clipper organization to make the playoffs than worry about the 17th-20th pick we have to give to Boston as a result.

I agree. I'm happy. Anybody's who not happy about making the playoffs even though we lose that FRP is not on Planet Ballmer, and IDGAF. This has been a great season.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#253 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:41 am

Not a choice Ballmer should have had to make in the first place if we are actually staying on topic.

We are invested in the draft now and acquiring draft capital. We search for young talent. We are in on development.

I am happy. Happy about how our FO is building this. The playoffs? It’s the NBE. 16 teams make it. By the time the FO builds a real contender, this year will be in our rear view and you won’t have to pretend so much.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#254 » by Galloisdaman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:45 pm

esqtvd wrote:I question your premises, is all. I don't share your faith in late draft picks or your skepticism with proven veterans who might be available because they're struggling a bit at the moment.

Although they struggled mightily in the first two months and most people gave up on them, Doc's faith and investment in Avery Bradley and Pat Beverley was vindicated. They are both back playing at career-best levels.


I hesitate to bring this up because I think Avery is a highly inflammable discussion here that I think should probably be put to bed but I did have one question. I know you stand by Doc. I know you stand by Avery. I admire that but did you know that Avery seemed to blame Doc for his poor play as a Clipper? For what it is worth I do not blame Doc for Avery's play.

“[Coach] just told me he wants me to go out there and play basketball, get back to playing like myself. When I was [on the] Clippers, my role was so limited. I was the cutter and a guy that just really sat in a corner… [JB Bickerstaff] wants me to get back to playing how I played in Boston. Hearing that was like a breath of fresh air for me. I know I’m going to play harder on the defensive end every single night, but I needed that confidence to go out there and start making shots, start playing how I used to.”

https://hoopshype.com/2019/02/13/memphis-grizzlies-avery-bradley-clippers-trade-role/
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#255 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:21 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
esqtvd wrote:I question your premises, is all. I don't share your faith in late draft picks or your skepticism with proven veterans who might be available because they're struggling a bit at the moment.

Although they struggled mightily in the first two months and most people gave up on them, Doc's faith and investment in Avery Bradley and Pat Beverley was vindicated. They are both back playing at career-best levels.


I hesitate to bring this up because I think Avery is a highly inflammable discussion here that I think should probably be put to bed but I did have one question. I know you stand by Doc. I know you stand by Avery. I admire that but did you know that Avery seemed to blame Doc for his poor play as a Clipper? For what it is worth I do not blame Doc for Avery's play.

“[Coach] just told me he wants me to go out there and play basketball, get back to playing like myself. When I was [on the] Clippers, my role was so limited. I was the cutter and a guy that just really sat in a corner… [JB Bickerstaff] wants me to get back to playing how I played in Boston. Hearing that was like a breath of fresh air for me. I know I’m going to play harder on the defensive end every single night, but I needed that confidence to go out there and start making shots, start playing how I used to.”

https://hoopshype.com/2019/02/13/memphis-grizzlies-avery-bradley-clippers-trade-role/


Yes. I'm aware of Avery's crabbing but it's not surprising he would alibi over what was at one point some of the worst play in NBA history those first 2 months. He still needs to politick for next year, whether it's the Grizz picking up his option or a new team giving him a new contract.

The facts are indisputable--Bradley's numbers got better and better as he slowly shook off last year's season-ending injury. Avery Bradley owes Doc Rivers for saving his career and I expect he'll acknowledge that in the coming years. Doc cut down Avery's playbook substantially, and it was a huge favor to him as it kept him useful and still on the floor. Bradley's early numbers said he shouldn't even be in the league.

As for trading him, I'm fine with it--he was redundant. We have 2 rookie guards who have already proven they belong in the league, the 6MOY, another rookie who aced G-League [mostly], and if I'm keeping a vet it's Pat Beverley, who's one of the great warriors of the NBA.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#256 » by Galloisdaman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:37 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
esqtvd wrote:I question your premises, is all. I don't share your faith in late draft picks or your skepticism with proven veterans who might be available because they're struggling a bit at the moment.

Although they struggled mightily in the first two months and most people gave up on them, Doc's faith and investment in Avery Bradley and Pat Beverley was vindicated. They are both back playing at career-best levels.


I hesitate to bring this up because I think Avery is a highly inflammable discussion here that I think should probably be put to bed but I did have one question. I know you stand by Doc. I know you stand by Avery. I admire that but did you know that Avery seemed to blame Doc for his poor play as a Clipper? For what it is worth I do not blame Doc for Avery's play.

“[Coach] just told me he wants me to go out there and play basketball, get back to playing like myself. When I was [on the] Clippers, my role was so limited. I was the cutter and a guy that just really sat in a corner… [JB Bickerstaff] wants me to get back to playing how I played in Boston. Hearing that was like a breath of fresh air for me. I know I’m going to play harder on the defensive end every single night, but I needed that confidence to go out there and start making shots, start playing how I used to.”

https://hoopshype.com/2019/02/13/memphis-grizzlies-avery-bradley-clippers-trade-role/


Yes. I'm aware of Avery's crabbing but it's not surprising he would alibi over what was at one point some of the worst play in NBA history those first 2 months. He still needs to politick for next year, whether it's the Grizz picking up his option or a new team giving him a new contract.

The facts are indisputable--Bradley's numbers got better and better as he slowly shook off last year's season-ending injury. Avery Bradley owes Doc Rivers for saving his career and I expect he'll acknowledge that in the coming years. Doc cut down Avery's playbook substantially, and it was a huge favor to him as it kept him useful and still on the floor. Bradley's early numbers said he shouldn't even be in the league.

As for trading him, I'm fine with it--he was redundant. We have 2 rookie guards who have already proven they belong in the league, the 6MOY, another rookie who aced G-League [mostly], and if I'm keeping a vet it's Pat Beverley, who's one of the great warriors of the NBA.


I agree with you Avery's stats got much better in the 14 games he played for Memphis. I'm not sure I would say his numbers got that much better before that though. RPG-APG Stats rounded up/down
OCT: 7.9ppg-2rpg-2apg-38%FG
NOV: 6.5ppg-2rpg-2apg-33%FG
DEC: 8.5ppg-3rpg-2apg-42%FG
JAN: 9.4ppg-3rpg-2apg-38%FG
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#257 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:00 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
I agree with you Avery's stats got much better in the 14 games he played for Memphis. I'm not sure I would say his numbers got that much better before that though. RPG-APG Stats rounded up/down
OCT: 7.9ppg-2rpg-2apg-38%FG
NOV: 6.5ppg-2rpg-2apg-33%FG
DEC: 8.5ppg-3rpg-2apg-42%FG
JAN: 9.4ppg-3rpg-2apg-38%FG


I watch the 3-pters on SGs, their #1 job, esp Bradley
NOV 26%
DEC 24%
JAN 39%
FEB 40%

if you can't shoot the 3, you're Sindarius or Ty
SGs who can't f***ing S

regardless, the point remains that nobody would have blinked an eye if Avery was cut in December
he owes Doc big and I think he'll apologize in time

_______________________

ADD: This was the stretch starting January 12 where Bradley finally started looking like his old self:

15, 6, 15, 15, 12, 11, 12, 12, 13
also the rebs and assists were way up too

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4240/avery-bradley
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#258 » by Galloisdaman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:27 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
I agree with you Avery's stats got much better in the 14 games he played for Memphis. I'm not sure I would say his numbers got that much better before that though. RPG-APG Stats rounded up/down
OCT: 7.9ppg-2rpg-2apg-38%FG
NOV: 6.5ppg-2rpg-2apg-33%FG
DEC: 8.5ppg-3rpg-2apg-42%FG
JAN: 9.4ppg-3rpg-2apg-38%FG


I watch the 3-pters on SGs, their #1 job, esp Bradley
NOV 26%
DEC 24%
JAN 39%
FEB 40%

if you can't shoot the 3, you're Sindarius or Ty
SGs who can't f***ing S

regardless, the point remains that nobody would have blinked an eye if Avery was cut in December
he owes Doc big and I think he'll apologize in time

_______________________

ADD: This was the stretch starting January 12 where Bradley finally started looking like his old self:

15, 6, 15, 15, 12, 11, 12, 12, 13
also the rebs and assists were way up too

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4240/avery-bradley


He was mixing in some better games along the way. I do not have anything against the guy. I do think his career numbers point to low assists being the norm not the outlier. I feel like the 4apg in his 14 games on Memphis has been double his normal rate. 3 rebounds seems about normal as well. I never really knew did Doc see Avery as the teams SG or PG.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#259 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:40 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
ADD: This was the stretch starting January 12 where Bradley finally started looking like his old self:

15, 6, 15, 15, 12, 11, 12, 12, 13
also the rebs and assists were way up too

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4240/avery-bradley


He was mixing in some better games along the way. I do not have anything against the guy. I do think his career numbers point to low assists being the norm not the outlier. I feel like the 4apg in his 14 games on Memphis has been double his normal rate. 3 rebounds seems about normal as well. I never really knew did Doc see Avery as the teams SG or PG.



Bradley's no PG, that's for sure. Bradley was still playing across from a raw rookie at PG who is still questionable as a PG--only 3.2 apg. That's gonna hamstring any SG. Bradley's had a real PG in Mike Conley for most of his games as a Grizz.

But Shai's up to 4.5 apg in March, very encouraging. With 74 NBA games and almost 2000 NBA minutes under his belt, he's no longer a "raw" rookie--in fact 2nd-year players Sindarius and Ty have only logged 1428 and 1402 respectively!
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Re: OFFICIAL: Harris, Marjanovic & Scott Traded to 76ers for Shamet, Chandler & Picks 

Post#260 » by og15 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:11 pm

Ballmer and the FO have agreed that they made a lot of roster mistakes in the previous era. Why are we arguing about things that people on the inside have already settled?

If the front office was what it is now, things would have been different. I'm not sure what the purpose of trying to justify and defend everything they did those years is, when they themselves wouldn't even do the same.

Yea, the FO is better, much better, we should be very happy about this.

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