Official Fire Doc Rivers thread

[NippySudz]

If the Kings truly had playoff talent, a coaching change (no matter how ill-advised) shouldn't be enough to take them from borderline playoff team to one of the worst teams in the league.

It's pretty clear now that Joerger was maximizing the limited talent they had by playing an uptempo style of basketball. Walton is making them play slower and they look awful now.

Malone has never been in a "championship or bust" situation. The Nuggets are a young team and they were ahead of schedule last season.

Hogwash mate. They're the worst team in the league because they managed to hire a worse coach. They've had some great wins. They have great talent. Pieces that everyone around the league wants. Bogdan, hield, de'aaron fox. They have the talent to get a low seed.

Walton is a terrible coach.

Correct Mike Malone hasn't been in a championship or bust situation and you're expecting him to win one with less than a season with a team.

He's been in playoff or bust situations and got fired. Jorger took over for Memphis that was run pretty well by Lionel hollins and it went no where. It was sidestep instead of an upgrade.

Steve Kerr won it his first yr but he took mark Jackson's system and just added a couple wrinkles. Steph had a breakout run.

Ty lue couldn't win his first yr.

Nick nurse won. He is a great coach, a diamond in the rough coach. What Toronto has been since then able to do defensively shows that. (He has gleaguers competing hard. That's what pop does. Jorger never did that ****!)

But those kinda situations are rare. Even then so the two first yr coaches had full training camps and won it.

You want jorger to take over with 4 months left in the regular season and him to lead this team to a championship. I'm sorry but that's laughable!

Jorger couldn't manage this team to 25-12 with load management and PG missing 12 games. With the starting lineup only playing 14 games. Find a better coach who can!

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[MartinToVaught]

When did I say anything about expecting Malone to win a championship right now? I don't. They have a young, developing team.

The Clippers actually are in a championship or bust situation with Kawhi and PG both on short-term contracts. We have a coach who's known for underachieving with talented teams and whose playoff track record is awful.

It's weird how you hold other coaches to far higher standards than our current coach who's won nothing in seven seasons here.

[NippySudz]

When did I say anything about expecting Malone to win a championship right now? I don't. They have a young, developing team.

The Clippers actually are in a championship or bust situation with Kawhi and PG both on short-term contracts. We have a coach who's known for underachieving with talented teams and whose playoff track record is awful.

It's weird how you hold other coaches to far higher standards than our current coach who's won nothing in seven seasons here.

I'm talking in respect to the clippers when referencing mike Malone. I'm speaking hypothetically if he was available and I'm speaking on jorger who is available.

What has jorger done for you to even recommend him and for you to recommend him at this stage in the season?

Come on dude. If you said he's a better coach for a larger window( 2-3years), I wouldn't agree but I could see the logic

But your angle is championship or bust and a takeover in the middle of the season. Come on. at this point, I question if it's worth discussing.

Again no issues with you not liking doc. Your opinion! But find someone better! Jorger is not objectively better. Sorry! especially not for a championship or bust season

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[MartinToVaught]

Joerger has overachieved with limited talent and dysfunctional franchises. He's never even had a Blake-level player, let alone a Kawhi or PG-level player, but apparently he sucks because he hasn't won a ring.

The funny thing is that Joerger wouldn't even be my first choice. I just mentioned him as a realistic midseason replacement with NBA experience.

If it were up to me, I'd look to Europe for the next coach. Someone like Obradovic or Itoudis would be perfect for this team. But I know people would have an even bigger kneejerk reaction to that idea.

[NippySudz]

Joerger has overachieved with limited talent and dysfunctional franchises. He's never even had a Blake-level player, let alone a Kawhi or PG-level player, but apparently he sucks because he hasn't won a ring.

The funny thing is that Joerger wouldn't even be my first choice. I just mentioned him as a realistic, experienced midseason replacement.

If it were up to me, I'd look to Europe for the next coach. Someone like Obradovic or Itoudis would be perfect for this team. But I know people would have an even bigger kneejerk reaction to that idea.

An new face is better than recommending jorger. Jorger is not realistic. Not for championship. Especially at this stage in the season.

Jorger doesn't suck. He's not objectively better than doc. He's a middle of a pack coach. The same way Dwane Casey is and it has shown in the playoffs. Nick nurse doesn't have the talent of a kawhi(as we know now as a superstar), neither did pop for a few years and they had gleaguers competeting, especially pop.

Pop developed a lot of coaches and athletes around the league. Jon Simmons gota contract from Orlando because he played under pop. Dejuan Blair who had no ACLs played well for them.

That's example of good coaching. IMO. Coaches that can show coaching brilliance despite limited rosters. Jorger hasn't shown that and he hasn't shown it to be on a championship level in the middle of a season.

I rather you suggest a new face than suggest a low hanging fruit replacement. IDK if I'd agree but at least to me it would make better sense.

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[MartinToVaught]

Joerger showed the "coaching brilliance" you're talking about when he managed to coach a depleted Grizzlies team that used an NBA-record 28 players to a playoff spot. When Doc was in a similar situation a few years ago, we missed the playoffs and he spent the season maximizing Austin's stats as much as possible.

Again, I'd rather take the risk on someone like Obradovic (who's been compared to Pop) or Itoudis (who's been compared to Brad Stevens). Problem there is that it might be a tough sell to the players. I'm less concerned about that with the Clippers because one of our vocal leaders (Beverley) played in the Euroleague for a while. But it was an issue in Cleveland when they hired Blatt.

[NippySudz]

Joerger showed the "coaching brilliance" you're talking about when he managed to coach a depleted Grizzlies team that used an NBA-record 28 players to a playoff spot. When Doc was in a similar situation a few years ago, we missed the playoffs and he was mostly concerned with maximizing Austin's stats.

Again, I'd rather take the risk on someone like Obradovic (who's been compared to Pop) or Itoudis (who's been compared to Brad Stevens). Problem there is that it might be a tough sell to the players. I'm less concerned about that with the Clippers because one of our vocal leaders (Beverley) played in the Euroleague for a while. But it was an issue in Cleveland when they hired Blatt.

..Mike Malone was regarded as a good budding coach even going back to sacremento. When he was fired, there was a lot of controversy. He was the guy got the most out of boogie.

Jorger never commanded that type of respect about his coaching on any team he's ever been on. Never.

Its championship or bust. I don't want to hear about depleted rosters not having success no more than you want to hear about injury ridden championship roster.

His adjustments when he had his most optimal rosters weren't there.

NBA players aren't going to respect coaches that haven't earned their stripes as an NBA coach so it would be a tougher sell but I can see a fresh face and people buying in next season. This season like it or not, doc is here to stay. I think that coach that can take over of in the middle of a season is not there. It's just unlikely. Very unlikely if you ask me.

Remember kawhi joked with nurse, don't talk to me about gleaguers. There's probably some truth to that joke that applies to outside NBA

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[og15]

Joerger showed the "coaching brilliance" you're talking about when he managed to coach a depleted Grizzlies team that used an NBA-record 28 players to a playoff spot. When Doc was in a similar situation a few years ago, we missed the playoffs and he spent the season maximizing Austin's stats as much as possible.

Again, I'd rather take the risk on someone like Obradovic (who's been compared to Pop) or Itoudis (who's been compared to Brad Stevens). Problem there is that it might be a tough sell to the players. I'm less concerned about that with the Clippers because one of our vocal leaders (Beverley) played in the Euroleague for a while. But it was an issue in Cleveland when they hired Blatt.

I’m not a big fan of simple things like “made the playoffs”. There were seasons where a coach in the West could win 47 games and his team misses the playoffs while an Eastern conference coaches team would make the playoffs with 37 wins. That’s not really a reasonable comparison.

The 15-16 Grizzlies were 42-40, 19th Ortg (105.4) / 19th Drtg (107.8).

The 17-18 Clippers were 42-40, 8th Ortg (110.3) / 20th Drtg (110.2)

I used offensive and defensive rank as opposed to simply Ortg and Drtg because overall league efficiency had some changes. The comparison needs more nuance because the 15-16 season was an easier season to make the playoffs in the WC than the 17-18 season. 17-18 had 10 teams with +.500 records, 15-16 had 8 and wins were harder to get that season than in 15-16.

There are two outcomes of that, first, the same Grizzlies team from 15-16 would likely win fewer games in 17-18, and even at 42 wins, they don’t make the playoffs, and the same Clippers team from 17-18 would win more games in 15-16 and as we see, even at 42 wins, they would be the 7th seed. The 7th seed in 17-18 won 5 more games than in 15-16.

That said, I have no issue with Joerger, but I do think two things need to be accounted for, first, changing a coach mid-season is rarely going to give you a better outcome, especially if the players like the outgoing coach, which is the case with this team. The second thing is that we can’t neglect the importance of players respecting a coach, and again it relates to how the players feel about the current coach (this is why replacing with an assistant sometimes works better because there’s a relationship already there). Doc Rivers has clout around the league among players, whether one likes it or not, it is the reality, and unless the team is bringing a proven coach the players know or a coach the players already have some relationship with (eg: assistant or previous coach), you can actually make the situation worse.

At this stage, unless something wild happens, Doc is here to stay for at least this season. Championship teams don’t tend to have a coaching change half way through the season, the recent one I can remember is Pat Riley taking over from SVG who started off 11-10, but he had already been given one season before that.

[NippySudz]

Joerger showed the "coaching brilliance" you're talking about when he managed to coach a depleted Grizzlies team that used an NBA-record 28 players to a playoff spot. When Doc was in a similar situation a few years ago, we missed the playoffs and he spent the season maximizing Austin's stats as much as possible.

Again, I'd rather take the risk on someone like Obradovic (who's been compared to Pop) or Itoudis (who's been compared to Brad Stevens). Problem there is that it might be a tough sell to the players. I'm less concerned about that with the Clippers because one of our vocal leaders (Beverley) played in the Euroleague for a while. But it was an issue in Cleveland when they hired Blatt.

I’m not a big fan of simple things like “made the playoffs”. There were seasons where a coach in the West could win 47 games and his team misses the playoffs while an Eastern conference coaches team would make the playoffs with 37 wins. That’s not really a reasonable comparison.

The 15-16 Grizzlies were 42-40, 19th Ortg (105.4) / 19th Drtg (107.8).

The 17-18 Clippers were 42-40, 8th Ortg (110.3) / 20th Drtg (110.2)

I used offensive and defensive rank as opposed to simply Ortg and Drtg because overall league efficiency had some changes. The comparison needs more nuance because the 15-16 season was an easier season to make the playoffs in the WC than the 17-18 season. 17-18 had 10 teams with +.500 records, 15-16 had 8 and wins were harder to get that season than in 15-16.

There are two outcomes of that, first, the same Grizzlies team from 15-16 would likely win fewer games in 17-18, and even at 42 wins, they don’t make the playoffs, and the same Clippers team from 17-18 would win more games in 15-16 and as we see, even at 42 wins, they would be the 7th seed. The 7th seed in 17-18 won 5 more games than in 15-16.

That said, I have no issue with Joeger, but I do think two things need to be accounted for, first, changing a coach mid-season is rarely going to give you a better outcome, especially if the players like the outgoing coach, which is the case with this team. The second thing is that we can’t neglect the importance of players respecting a coach, and again it relates to how the players feel about the current coach (this is why replacing with an assistant sometimes works better because there’s a relationship already there). Doc Rivers has clout around the league among players, whether one likes it or not, it is the reality, and unless the team is bringing a proven coach the players know or a coach the players already have some relationship with (eg: assistant or previous coach), you can actually make the situation worse.

At this stage, unless something wild happens, Doc is here to stay for at least this season. Championship teams don’t tend to have a coaching change half way through the season, the recent one I can remember is Pat Riley taking over from SVG who started off 11-10, but he had already been given one season before that.

I've told him almost the same thing verbatim and he isn't interested in having a conversation about it

It just turns to a "doc sucks" whine fest.

I don't have any issues with him hating doc. I'm not attached to doc the way some clipper fans might be. But the hyperbole and constant stuff is just eyeroll.

Pat Riley isn't walking through that door. Not this season and jorger? Forget it.

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[Max Headrom]

Joerger showed the "coaching brilliance" you're talking about when he managed to coach a depleted Grizzlies team that used an NBA-record 28 players to a playoff spot. When Doc was in a similar situation a few years ago, we missed the playoffs and he spent the season maximizing Austin's stats as much as possible.

Again, I'd rather take the risk on someone like Obradovic (who's been compared to Pop) or Itoudis (who's been compared to Brad Stevens). Problem there is that it might be a tough sell to the players. I'm less concerned about that with the Clippers because one of our vocal leaders (Beverley) played in the Euroleague for a while. But it was an issue in Cleveland when they hired Blatt.

I’m not a big fan of simple things like “made the playoffs”. There were seasons where a coach in the West could win 47 games and his team misses the playoffs while an Eastern conference coaches team would make the playoffs with 37 wins. That’s not really a reasonable comparison.

The 15-16 Grizzlies were 42-40, 19th Ortg (105.4) / 19th Drtg (107.8).

The 17-18 Clippers were 42-40, 8th Ortg (110.3) / 20th Drtg (110.2)

I used offensive and defensive rank as opposed to simply Ortg and Drtg because overall league efficiency had some changes. The comparison needs more nuance because the 15-16 season was an easier season to make the playoffs in the WC than the 17-18 season. 17-18 had 10 teams with +.500 records, 15-16 had 8 and wins were harder to get that season than in 15-16.

There are two outcomes of that, first, the same Grizzlies team from 15-16 would likely win fewer games in 17-18, and even at 42 wins, they don’t make the playoffs, and the same Clippers team from 17-18 would win more games in 15-16 and as we see, even at 42 wins, they would be the 7th seed. The 7th seed in 17-18 won 5 more games than in 15-16.

That said, I have no issue with Joeger, but I do think two things need to be accounted for, first, changing a coach mid-season is rarely going to give you a better outcome, especially if the players like the outgoing coach, which is the case with this team. The second thing is that we can’t neglect the importance of players respecting a coach, and again it relates to how the players feel about the current coach (this is why replacing with an assistant sometimes works better because there’s a relationship already there). Doc Rivers has clout around the league among players, whether one likes it or not, it is the reality, and unless the team is bringing a proven coach the players know or a coach the players already have some relationship with (eg: assistant or previous coach), you can actually make the situation worse.

At this stage, unless something wild happens, Doc is here to stay for at least this season. Championship teams don’t tend to have a coaching change half way through the season, the recent one I can remember is Pat Riley taking over from SVG who started off 11-10, but he had already been given one season before that.

I've told him almost there same thing verbatim and isn't interested in having a conversation about it

It just turns to a "doc sucks" whine fest.

I don't have any issues with him having doc. I'm not attached to doc the way some clipper fans might be. But the hyperbole and constant stuff is just eyeroll.

Pat Riley isn't waking through that door. Not this season and jorger? Forget it.

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Yeah, it's not even reasonable suggestions. It's basically anyone is better than Doc without context. Hell, a couple of years ago one guy who used to complain all the time as well suggested Larry Brown because "Doc doesn't play young players" It's usually just nonsense honestly.

I just laugh at it at this point because going back and forth is useless. Guys have their mind made up. I just wish all the game threads weren't ruined with the same crap over and over again. And again, it's the team 26-12 or 12-26?? Lol And with all that's gone on so far this season as far as health and basically no practice time with the superstars, it would point to Doc being a good coach with the record we without playing to the roster's capability yet.

[NippySudz]

I’m not a big fan of simple things like “made the playoffs”. There were seasons where a coach in the West could win 47 games and his team misses the playoffs while an Eastern conference coaches team would make the playoffs with 37 wins. That’s not really a reasonable comparison.

The 15-16 Grizzlies were 42-40, 19th Ortg (105.4) / 19th Drtg (107.8).

The 17-18 Clippers were 42-40, 8th Ortg (110.3) / 20th Drtg (110.2)

I used offensive and defensive rank as opposed to simply Ortg and Drtg because overall league efficiency had some changes. The comparison needs more nuance because the 15-16 season was an easier season to make the playoffs in the WC than the 17-18 season. 17-18 had 10 teams with +.500 records, 15-16 had 8 and wins were harder to get that season than in 15-16.

There are two outcomes of that, first, the same Grizzlies team from 15-16 would likely win fewer games in 17-18, and even at 42 wins, they don’t make the playoffs, and the same Clippers team from 17-18 would win more games in 15-16 and as we see, even at 42 wins, they would be the 7th seed. The 7th seed in 17-18 won 5 more games than in 15-16.

That said, I have no issue with Joeger, but I do think two things need to be accounted for, first, changing a coach mid-season is rarely going to give you a better outcome, especially if the players like the outgoing coach, which is the case with this team. The second thing is that we can’t neglect the importance of players respecting a coach, and again it relates to how the players feel about the current coach (this is why replacing with an assistant sometimes works better because there’s a relationship already there). Doc Rivers has clout around the league among players, whether one likes it or not, it is the reality, and unless the team is bringing a proven coach the players know or a coach the players already have some relationship with (eg: assistant or previous coach), you can actually make the situation worse.

At this stage, unless something wild happens, Doc is here to stay for at least this season. Championship teams don’t tend to have a coaching change half way through the season, the recent one I can remember is Pat Riley taking over from SVG who started off 11-10, but he had already been given one season before that.

I've told him almost there same thing verbatim and isn't interested in having a conversation about it

It just turns to a "doc sucks" whine fest.

I don't have any issues with him having doc. I'm not attached to doc the way some clipper fans might be. But the hyperbole and constant stuff is just eyeroll.

Pat Riley isn't waking through that door. Not this season and jorger? Forget it.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

Yeah, it's not even reasonable suggestions. It's basically anyone is better than Doc without context. Hell, a couple of years ago one guy who used to complain all the time as well suggested Larry Brown because "Doc doesn't play young players" It's usually just nonsense honestly.

I just laugh at it at this point because going back and forth is useless. Guys have their mind made up. I just wish all the game threads weren't ruined with the same crap over and over again. And again, it's the team 26-12 or 12-26?? Lol And with all that's gone on so far this season as far as health and basically no practice time with the superstars, it would point to Doc being a good coach with the record we without playing to the roster's capability yet.

I wonder if that guy loves doc playing Jerome all these unproductive mins lol.

The guy said Mike d'antoni was a better coach because at least he has an offensive system. James harden has only missed one game iirc. Westbrook has been on load management no back to backs

And even together with them in the lineup, they've had some terrible losses. They gave up 150+ to the Washington wizards and I think their roster was healthy when they did that. Their losses are waaay worse than the clippers lost this season.


It's really nonsense. A simple "doc sucks" will suffice. People don't really need to go into all the hyperbole to make a Point.

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[esqtvd]

Yeah, it's not even reasonable suggestions. It's basically anyone is better than Doc without context. Hell, a couple of years ago one guy who used to complain all the time as well suggested Larry Brown because "Doc doesn't play young players" It's usually just nonsense honestly.

I just laugh at it at this point because going back and forth is useless. Guys have their mind made up. I just wish all the game threads weren't ruined with the same crap over and over again. And again, it's the team 26-12 or 12-26??

At the moment, the top 3 subjects on our board are


Official Fire Doc Rivers thread
BS Defensive System
Doc Rivers not taking any responsibility for crapping the bed.


I saw the scout.com board die because this kind of garbage took over
that board is gone now
all the good people left
and all that remained was the garbage


Doc Rivers is going NOWHERE
this year or next year either

As long as people keep replying to this nonsense as though it deserves actual debate, yes, every thread will continue to be ruined with this same crap over and over again. Max. The bad drives out the good. That's true of everything, everywhere. It's up to all of us whether we want to let that happen here.

[Captain Ballmer]

Doc Rivers is going NOWHERE
this year or next year either

This is not on you to say unless you are Steve Ballmer secretly writing here.

Some boards are usually dead because the members were trying to force their opinions to become a fact while they were not.

[esqtvd]

Doc Rivers is going NOWHERE
this year or next year either

This is not on you to say unless you are Steve Ballmer secretly writing here.

Some boards are usually dead because the members were trying to force their opinions to become a fact while they were not.

Every thread is ruined with this garbage. The same thing over and over again. That's the only opinion being forced on anyone here, by a small minority, an opinion not shared by anyone serious anywhere outside of this board.

The rest of us have been trying to enjoy what should be the greatest season in Clippers history.

[Max Headrom]

Bucks got blown out by the Spurs last night. I guess Bud is a terrible coach and must be fired now. That's how this works, right?

[NippySudz]

Bucks got blown out by the Spurs last night. I guess Bud is a terrible coach and must be fired now. That's how this works, right?

He's 4-10 against pop since becoming a head coach.

He should be fired . (Sarcasm)

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[QRich3]

There's an active poll in the GB that's ranking coaches in the league at the moment, and Doc's at 8th, in the same tier as coaches like Budenholzer, Snyder, Kerr, McMillan, and a notch above guys like Malone, Stotts, Atkison or Vogel. Not that I agree with everything that poll is saying, but I'd guess that's about where most reasonable people rank him.

Of course, in this place there's a lot of people that are not reasonable cause they're invested way too deep into defending their years-long opinion of him, both for good and for bad, and that makes discussion about him here a bit more difficult than ideal.

But all in all, you could do a lot worse than a coach that's comfortably in the top 3rd.

[Roach Clip]

Yeah, it's not even reasonable suggestions. It's basically anyone is better than Doc without context. Hell, a couple of years ago one guy who used to complain all the time as well suggested Larry Brown because "Doc doesn't play young players" It's usually just nonsense honestly.

I just laugh at it at this point because going back and forth is useless. Guys have their mind made up. I just wish all the game threads weren't ruined with the same crap over and over again. And again, it's the team 26-12 or 12-26??

At the moment, the top 3 subjects on our board are


Official Fire Doc Rivers thread
BS Defensive System
Doc Rivers not taking any responsibility for crapping the bed.


I saw the scout.com board die because this kind of garbage took over
that board is gone now
all the good people left
and all that remained was the garbage


Doc Rivers is going NOWHERE
this year or next year either

As long as people keep replying to this nonsense as though it deserves actual debate, yes, every thread will continue to be ruined with this same crap over and over again. Max. The bad drives out the good. That's true of everything, everywhere. It's up to all of us whether we want to let that happen here.

The Scout.com board didn't die after you started using all caps to express your rage at "negativity" and left so that you could repeat history and try to control things on this board. Scout.com was fine. Rick (who I admit could be surly at times, but was generally awesome) and Stats were good moderators and posters, and the board was a joy to read during the last, amazing season. You weren't there, and yet things on Scout.com were wonderful. I'm not trying to be rude to you, just telling it the way it was.

[esqtvd]

At the moment, the top 3 subjects on our board are


Official Fire Doc Rivers thread
BS Defensive System
Doc Rivers not taking any responsibility for crapping the bed.


I saw the scout.com board die because this kind of garbage took over
that board is gone now
all the good people left
and all that remained was the garbage


Doc Rivers is going NOWHERE
this year or next year either

As long as people keep replying to this nonsense as though it deserves actual debate, yes, every thread will continue to be ruined with this same crap over and over again. Max. The bad drives out the good. That's true of everything, everywhere. It's up to all of us whether we want to let that happen here.

The Scout.com board didn't die after you started using all caps to express your rage at "negativity" and left so that you could repeat history and try to control things on this board. Scout.com was fine. Rick (who I admit could be surly at times, but was generally awesome) and Stats were good moderators and posters, and the board was a joy to read during the last, amazing season. You weren't there, and yet things on Scout.com were wonderful. I'm not trying to be rude to you, just telling it the way it was.

All the good people left. Apparently you helped ruin that one and want to do the same here. Fine.

At the moment, the top 3 subjects on our board are


Official Fire Doc Rivers thread
BS Defensive System
Doc Rivers not taking any responsibility for crapping the bed.


well done

[MartinToVaught]

Bucks got blown out by the Spurs last night. I guess Bud is a terrible coach and must be fired now. That's how this works, right?

I know you hate Bud for some reason, but come on, that's a terrible comparison. The Bucks embarrassed us a few weeks ago, have a better record than us, and Bud just coached them further in the playoffs last year than our franchise has been in its entire history. They had one off night, the Clippers have been playing like crap for a month now.