Trade Targets

[clipperlover]

With the deadline approaching, we are likely to make some kind of move, but what that move is remains to be seen. Looking at how other teams are doing, there could be some good players that are made available as teams look to the future.

1. Robert Covington is at the top of my list and he is likely to get traded somewhere. Philly appears to want him back, but we apparently have shown interest.

2. A player that i think could fix a lot of out problems and could be made available as the Suns look to the future is Ricky Rubio. He still has 2 years @$17M left on his deal. He is a playmaking PG, but he is also a solid defender. Moving Rubio would free up a lot of money next year for the Suns. Harkless and McGruder's salaries are enough to make the deal work financially, but there would have to be other items thrown in.

3. Marcus Morris - Harkless and Mac would be enough to make it work financially. But, Robinson may be the sacrifice needed over Mac.

4. Julius Randle - In order to get Randle, we would have to let Harrell go as part of the deal.

[MartinRiggs]

Myles Turner.

But Morris would be great upgrade over Mo,I am not sure how is he on the defense side though?

[Captain Ballmer]

There is some buzz about Thaddeus Young on the Chicago Bulls forum. I wouldn't mind replace him with Harkless even tough his contract lasts more than ideal.

[TrueLAfan]

Realistically, I doubt we're in competition for those guys. The good news is that we've got one decent trade piece--Harkless--and two other guys in Rome and McGruder that could be considered "change of scenery needed" guys, and swapped for players. Bottom of the roster player could be included too.

Anyway, realistically--Noah Vonleh and Denzel Valentine. Our team is already good; we could get them without giving up much of what has made us good ... and they'd help. I mentioned Vonleh in another thread--he's a true combo 4/5 with enough size to bang with big 5s and enough range to pull out defenses and keep them honest. He's only a 15 mpg player--but that's pretty much exactly what we could use. Valentine is what we hope Mann will be—a PG/SG/SF that plays pesky D and handles and passes the ball well. He’s a true combo SG/SF—6’4” in socks so 6’5.5”-6’5.75” in shoes, with a 6’10.75” wingspan and enormous hands. Last year, he averaged 10-5-3 in a little over 27 minutes a game so, unlike McGruder (and, sadly, Rome) he can score enough to keep teams honest. And, unlike McGruder, he’s maintained his shooting/scoring while his usage and court time has gone down this year. Added bonus: comes from a terrific program (Michigan State) where, in his senior year he played PG … and was fourth in the nation in APG (7.8). Could he play at PG? Hmmmm.

If we play our cards right, we could actually pick up a draft pick too. Bonus!

[madmaxmedia]

If we play our cards right, we could actually pick up a draft pick too. Bonus!

And when doesn't Jerry West always play his cards right?
(okay, our FO in general the last couple of years...but I think Jerry has significantly elevated our FO)

I agree its more likely we add 1 or 2 15 MPG type guys but even that can make a big impact on a team, especially when our top 6-7 players are set. And generally the cost is really low, it's more about shopping very carefully and looking for good fits. For all the talk about 'are they or aren't they?' with Iguodala, he's not a high impact player at this point either and there are others around.

[Mistwell]

1. I don't think we are looking for a big, unless we're planning to trade either Zubac or Harrell. I think many in the media think we want a big because in theory it looked like we were too small, but given our record against the teams who do have dominant bigs shows we're not suffering against them, I think management isn't interested in a big (again, unless we're trading Zu or Trez).

2. I don't think we're any longer as concerned with a distributor, now that Bev is coming around as a distributor and Kawhi and George are distributing well.

Which leaves a wing.

I would not be surprised if we're looking to upgrade Harkless.

[SK21209]

Got the idea from Dunc'd On podcast: Iggy and Crowder for Harkless + matching salaries (Robins, McGruder, Mann or Walton) and the Detroit 2nd rounders. Crowder isn't super necessary but you can never have too many wings.

[esqtvd]

1. I don't think we are looking for a big, unless we're planning to trade either Zubac or Harrell. I think many in the media think we want a big because in theory it looked like we were too small, but given our record against the teams who do have dominant bigs shows we're not suffering against them, I think management isn't interested in a big (again, unless we're trading Zu or Trez).

2. I don't think we're any longer as concerned with a distributor, now that Bev is coming around as a distributor and Kawhi and George are distributing well.

Which leaves a wing.

I would not be surprised if we're looking to upgrade Harkless.

Upgrading Harkless and a 4-5 big. Could be the same thing if it's the right guy.


As for a PG, looking OK.

Read on Twitter

[23Jadder]

TLTJTP mentioned going after Horford. I think that could be the best final piece to the puzzle in order to win now.

If Philly wants Gallo, then Horford would be the odd man out. I can see a 3 team trade happen... Gallo to Philly, Trezz, filler and picks (2nd rounders from Phi & LAC) to OKC, Horford to LAC.

Would suck to give up Trezz, it will also really hurt our depth and we would likely have to make more moves, but Trezz might walk in FA if someone throws crazy money at him. (We have Trezz's bird's rights so we can match if need be but we would be hard capped at that point).

Although Horford is older, he is a perfect fit offensively and defensively and can help us get over the top now.
He moves the ball and has a high IQ on both ends.

Another player I'd love on this squad is Covington, but I think the price would be too high for him.

[nickhx2]

hmm, i know horford hasn't been the best for them, but i also feel like harrell would be an even worse fit, given embiid and simmons already taking the floor.

[23Jadder]

hmm, i know horford hasn't been the best for them, but i also feel like harrell would be an even worse fit, given embiid and simmons already taking the floor.

In this situation Harrell would go to OKC, Gallo and Harkless would go to PHI

[nickhx2]

oh yes i misread, got it

[TrueLAfan]

If we play our cards right, we could actually pick up a draft pick too. Bonus!

And when doesn't Jerry West always play his cards right?
(okay, our FO in general the last couple of years...but I think Jerry has significantly elevated our FO)

I agree its more likely we add 1 or 2 15 MPG type guys but even that can make a big impact on a team, especially when our top 6-7 players are set. And generally the cost is really low, it's more about shopping very carefully and looking for good fits. For all the talk about 'are they or aren't they?' with Iguodala, he's not a high impact player at this point either and there are others around.

I agree. Said it before, say it again; we're basically a top level team now. The difference between that and a championship level team is ... small. the guys I want are Denzel Valentine (he's what we dream of Mann becoming) and Noah Vonleh. Are they star players? No. Are they legitimate mid level rotation players that are solid in the locker room? Sure. They'd be terrific for 12-18 mpg. Valentine might be even solve the PG question if (admittedly, big if) he reestablishes the passing game he had in his senior season (4th in the NCAA in APG). They'd help us big time and they're realistic targets.

[50CalClips]

Al Horford would be the only difference-maker, of the above mentioned.

[SK21209]

I don’t want to trade Harrell and I don’t think we will, but what about this trade:

Harkless + Harrell for Derrick White, Jakob Poeltl and Rudy Gay.

White is a solid PG who shoots 38% from three, defends very well and is a solid playmaker. Poeltl is a pretty good roll man and plays strong interior defense. Gay fills in Harkless’s spot and brings much more scoring albeit with much worse defense.

[TrueLAfan]

Long post: the only major piece I want to move is Moe, who's more like a 8th man. We can get plenty for Moe, McGruder, Rome and one of the super low bench guys. I really think so. I’d like to see a combination of three, count ‘em three trades...but getting any one of these would help. Start with the biggie:

LAC trade: Mo Harkless, Derrick Walton
CHI trade: Denzel Valentine, Ryan Arcidiacono

Right now, Chicago is an injury wasteland in the frontcourt. Carter, Markkanen, Gafford and Porter are all out for a few more weeks. They need frontcourt help immediately. Hello, Moe! Fills in for Porter and Markannen now, plays behind them when they come back, is off the books after this season—or can be held on to with Bird Rights if he fits in with their culture and upcoming moves. They could really use him right now.

OTOH, Chicago has so many backcourt players—thanks to the arrival of LaVine and Satoransky—that they’re oversaturated. Seriously. LaVine, Satoranky, Dunn, and White are all legit. I am not exactly sure why Valentine has fallen in the eyes of Chicago coaching/management—probably because of that depth and due to the fact that he missed last year due to injury. But it’s a non-chronic injury to his ankle and the operation was successful (think Steph Curry’s 2012 surgery). He’s a multi position player from a great program. He’s got a huge wingspan, so he can play at SF (very) capably if necessary. He’s a good passer—and was 4th in the NCAA in APG in his final college season. His playing has been infrequent this year, but his shooting and production are the same as the season pre-injury—when he started for half the season—and they’re good.

Y’know, I like Walton when he plays. He could be a bottom of the roster guy and hang on in the NBA for a few years. That’s great. But Arcidiacono is simply better. He’s a low rotation player; the 10-15 MPG #3 PG we’ve been thinking of. Between he and Valentine, we probably have fixed the PG issue. It’s just that those players don’t fit into Chicago’s plans—and Mo is the best player in this deal. Ideally, we’d swap Coffey in instead of Walton. But I suspect Walton would make it work better for Chicago as a #4 PG (and in case they trade Dunn, which could happen).

LAC trade: Rodney McGruder
NOP trade: Darius Miller, 2020 and 2021 2nd Round Picks (from WAS)

The Pels want to make a playoff push, and they’re playing Kenrich Williams major minutes. He’s a grade B (maybe B minus or C) Moe Harkless. Think about it. And think about this; McGruder is playing better than Kenrich Williams; he’d help them. Miller is out for the season with (shudder) an achilles injury … and is due to make $7 million next season. So for that help and taking the risk on Miller next year, we get the two second rounders from Washington in 2020 and 2021. Definitely get one; try for two. The Pels have plenty of picks coming in and wouldn’t be able to use them. We can.

And, finally:

LAC trade: Jerome Robinson, 2020 2nd Round Pick
MIN trade: Noah Vonleh

This is the classic “change of scenery trade.” I mentioned Vonleh earlier, and it seemed like there was a lot of “I’ve never seen him play.” That’s because he’s a career 15-17 mpg player. Seriously. Other than last year with the (gak!) Knicks, Vonleh played 14 to 17 minutes every year in seasons 2 through 4. This is his sixth season and he’s lost a ton of minutes because Minnesota looked at Robert Covington and said, “Y’know, as a 6’7”, 205 guy, you should play most of your time at PF—like you did that one season with the Sixers.” Yeah, when they won 10 games. There’s some good thinking for you.

Anyway…Noah Vonleh. He’s okay at everything and not particularly great at anything. But he's what we need. He’s got some range—about 30% of his shots come from 15 feet or more, which is good for a big man but not *that* good. His percentage from three prior to this season was .312, which is pretty bad but not *that* bad for a 6”10”, 250 pound guy. As a result, he’s a slight minus on offense—but he does score enough (about 11 pts. per 36) to keep defenses honest. Put it this way—he's scoring more than JaMychal is this year. OTOH, he’s a slight plus on defense. He’s a decent, not great shot blocker, but at 6’9.5” in shoes, he’s got a huge 7'4"+ wingspan—he’s the same size as Pascal Siakam (who’s .25 inch taller but has an inch less wingspan) or Bam Adebayo (half an inch taller, two inch less wingspan)—and that makes him a true combo 4-5. And Vonleh has started over half of his career games--most of them with Portland, on pretty good teams. He was traded to Chicago when Nurkic started being Nurkic and Vonleh became unnecessary. Played well in Chicago (averaged 7 and 7 in 19 minutes), and signed with Knicks. He played very well on the very bad Knicks team—8.4 and 7.8, shot 47% from the field and 34% from three, started 57, had a positive +/-. Then, because the Knicks are the Knicks, they picked up about something like twenty power forwards in free agency, including a couple who were 4/5s, and Vonleh signed with Minnesota, evidently not thinking they would play a 6’7”, 205 guy totally out of position at PF.

For the T-Wolves … look, Rome could help them. He needs a change of scenery. And, right now, Jarret Culver, Allen Crabbe, and Josh Okogie are competing for starting (and, really backup) SG position(s) in Minnesota. Here’s what they’ve averaged this year.

22.9 MPG, 8.3 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.6 APG, .391 FG%, .284 3P%

You want a new locale that will give you a chance? Brother, here it is. The guy that is playing the most right now of the three, Culver, is shooting under 40% from the field and under 28% from three. Go make it happen. With a second round pick from us. Happy trails.

So in all it’s:

Out: Harkless, McGruder, Rome, Walton, 2nd Round pick this year
In: Miller (IR), Valentine, Vonleh, Arcidiacono, 2020 and 2021 WAS 2nd Round Picks

Positionally, this is a no-brainer. Vonleh has a good wingspan and can rim protect adequately; he can play against true 5’s. And since his distance shooting isn’t that much worse than Mo’s, Trezz could play a little at PF. Valentine is, to put it charitably, an upgrade over McGruder and Rome—especially at SF for games when PG and Kawhi are out. Arcidiacono and his 3.5 to 1 A/TO ratio(!) becomes a 10 mpg PG. We lose a little D —maybe—and some efficiency when Valentine plays at SF instead of Moe. But we get better floor spacing (Valentine takes a lot more 3s and hits at a higher percentage) and, more importantly, much improved scoring (Valentine’s scoring is more than double—17.5 to 8.5—than Moe PER36).

In the end
• Arcidiacono gets Walton’s and Rome’s minutes. Big plus.
• Valentine gets 50% of McGruder’s minutes (7-8 mpg). The rest are split between Mann and Arcidiacono. Big plus.
• Valentine gets Moe’s backcourt minutes (14 mpg). More or less even.
• Vonleh gets Moe’s frontcourt minutes (about 5-7 a game) and about 8-9 combined mpg from Trezz (more rest), Zu, 2Pat (minutes at C) and JaMychal (minutes at C). Medium plus.

[madmaxmedia]

I'm still thinking that Harrell is keepable in the off-season. I think everybody would love to have a guy like him but is also aware of his limitations. I also think we are pretty good at maximizing his talents, not every team is going to be able to do the same and will have to adjust their offers accordingly.

[NippySudz]

I am hoping they move Moe for a better three and d wing and move one of the centers for a better defensive center

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[QRich3]

I think I like Moe more than most people, cause I wouldn't deal him away for just any wing. I don't like most of the trades I see where he is used as salary fodder. He is an important part of the rotation and his defense would have to be replaced for at least something just as impactful. And he's still shooting 41% from the corners! we should encourage him to shoot more instead of trying to deal him away for just anyone than can shoot a little bit.

If we can package him for a long term core piece, I'm ok with that, if not, I'm fully against adding assets to him to get a 3 month rental of Iguodala or something of the sort.

[NippySudz]

I think I like Moe more than most people, cause I wouldn't deal him away for just any wing. I don't like most of the trades I see where he is used as salary fodder. He is an important part of the rotation and his defense would have to be replaced for at least something just as impactful. And he's still shooting 41% from the corners! we should encourage him to shoot more instead of trying to deal him away for just anyone than can shoot a little bit.

If we can package him for a long term core piece, I'm ok with that, if not, I'm fully against adding assets to him to get a 3 month rental of Iguodala or something of the sort.

41% in the corners is fool's gold. He doesn't have the volume nor the consistency. Teams are going to be more than willing to make Moe harkless beat them. They'll give that up 100% of the time.

I'm not saying trade him for peanuts but if they can find a trade for him that results in a better three and d guy, they better do it.

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