Lou Williams and Montrez Harrell are net negatives since January

[Yogatti]

Stats from Philly game

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Stats in January

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I was shocked that Jerry West didn't trade Trezz at the deadline. This team needed a 5 to protect the rim and play defense and Trezz does none of that. Now that both Lou and Trezz are still on the team they have now become the weakest link

Lou in the 4th quarter last night was just brutal to watch and is the reason why he can't be relied on in the playoffs. He is too much of a liability on defense.

Since they're both still on this team, only option is to hope for the best in the PO. But this is something to keep in mind going forward. They are killing this team on both offense and defense. Zubac, Shamet and Patrick Beverly fits better with Marcus Morris/Kawhi Leonard/Paul George. The ball will be in Kawhi and Paul George's hand the majority of the time in the PO and Lou Williams is not effective without the ball, that's why Shamet is better option to close the game with the starters

[NippySudz]

Yup, our bench has been net negatives, losing leads. that's how we lost the timberwolves game. We were in the game, as soon as kawhi went to the bench, we lost it.

Lou giving up a backdoor to sixers while only down 4 was bad.

[Dynamix]

There was probably not a lot of interest for Trez's small expiring contract, since it's all about who can give him the most money this summer. Going after Thompson would've meant packaging him and Harkless, that's one step forward two steps back from a depth standpoint. Drummond was way out of reach, with no other clear upgrade options on the market. So yeah, rolling with Trez and hoping for the best is pretty much where we're at.

With Lou it's a different story, since we have multiple options to replace his offensive production from past seasons. If this slump continues, I expect his 4th quarter minutes to go way down. But let's wait and see how he looks after the AS break.

[NippySudz]

There was probably not a lot of interest for Trez's small expiring contract, since it's all about who can give him the most money this summer. Going after Thompson would've meant packaging him and Harkless, that's one step forward two steps back from a depth standpoint. Drummond was way out of reach, with no other clear upgrade options on the market. So yeah, rolling with Trez and hoping for the best is pretty much where we're at.

With Lou it's a different story, since we have multiple options to replace his offensive production from past seasons. If this slump continues, I expect his 4th quarter minutes to go way down. But let's wait and see how he looks after the AS break.

knowing how private the front office is, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to trade him but got no offers.

[LamarWho]

Lou might need some load management, I am hoping he'll play better after ASB. He's been unwatchable for a while, almost as bad as Jamal Crawford. But our brilliant coach does not believe in adjustment.

[esqtvd]

Lou might need some load management, I am hoping he'll play better after ASB. He's been unwatchable for a while, almost as bad as Jamal Crawford. But our brilliant coach does not believe in adjustment.

When you're forced to give McGruder this many minutes it means you're out of options. And Robinson, Mann, Walton. PG and Bev have missed a LOT of time, and that's precisely where those missing minutes would go. When you're replacing All-Defensive Team guys with G leaguers, something's gonna give.

The alternative to giving those guys minutes is beating up everybody else, which is no solution either. Last night, Doc really only played 7 guys in a litmus test game. 5 years ago he did it every game, all year, and we got to the playoffs tired and aching. I like this a lot better. It's way too soon to go to a tight rotation.


PG is just rounding into shape again. Getting Bev back and getting 32 strong mpg from Morris instead of 22 meh mpg from Harkless should help a lot. That's 40+ minutes of top-flight play instead of 40 minutes of dreck.

[NippySudz]

Lou might need some load management, I am hoping he'll play better after ASB. He's been unwatchable for a while, almost as bad as Jamal Crawford. But our brilliant coach does not believe in adjustment.

Just my overreaction, but Lou needs his role reduced. As does trez

Trez is an energy guy. Trezz can't give avg the mins he's averaging off the bench. Just can't allow that. Some games, sure. Half games, Ok?? I can see that?? Most games? Probably not. You have the offensive firepower you need already, trez offensive firepower is overrated in my opinion.

You have 4 guys on the floor that can score, and a big who is not that bad at scoring. Zu is no hakeem olajuwon, but he's not bad. he can give you 11-12pts a game. That should be enough from the starting center position.

I think trez should be utilized in a way where he's the energy guy, he comes offf the bench, gets 18 points in under 20mins and sit down. 25mins is too much.

Both centers are concerning though. We can win with both of them, but it will take adjustment. But I am concerned about the later rounds. This is what Zu is going to get a steady diet of round 2 and onward. The man has to learn the veriticality rule. If you're going to go straight up, go straight up. Don't put your hands straight up and lunge.

Trezz, defensively needs to know his rotations, but I don't expect a 6'7 guy to be able to guard joel embiid on a steady diet. That's not his fault. He's undersized. So I won't put that blame on him. Doc has to know he can't handle certain assignments.

This is a loss that the team can learn from so I wouldn't put too much stress on it. Literally no championship contending team has won in philly. So that's that. But if the clippers don't take anything from this loss and learn from them, it'll be a crucial mistake.

[NippySudz]

Lou might need some load management, I am hoping he'll play better after ASB. He's been unwatchable for a while, almost as bad as Jamal Crawford. But our brilliant coach does not believe in adjustment.

When you're forced to give McGruder this many minutes it means you're out of options. And Robinson, Mann, Walton. PG and Bev have missed a LOT of time, and that's precisely where those missing minutes would go. When you're replacing All-Defensive Team guys with G leaguers, something's gonna give.

The alternative to giving those guys minutes is beating up everybody else, which is no solution either. Last night, Doc really only played 7 guys in a litmus test game. 5 years ago he did it every game, all year, and we got to the playoffs tired and aching. I like this a lot better. It's way too soon to go to a tight rotation.


PG is just rounding into shape again. Getting Bev back and getting 32 strong mpg from Morris instead of 22 meh mpg from Harkless should help a lot. That's 40+ minutes of top-flight play instead of 40 minutes of dreck.

Pat's presence was missed tonight. The dude would have grabbed 10 rebounds tonight and would have been everywhere. Definitely the motor of this team. I like players that do whatever it takes to win. Kawhi is that guy, but so is patbev. He'll do whatever is asked of him. I just wish PG had that mindset instead of looking for scapegoats

[NippySudz]

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Lou has been slumping really effing hard

Also Lou will not passing to anyone other than trez doesn't help

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[esqtvd]

Read on Twitter

.
Lou has been slumping really effing hard

Also Lou will not passing to anyone other than trez doesn't help

Mostly, everybody's numbers look bad unless playing with Kawhi. But Lou in particular is slumping, true. We leaned on him heavily in the first half of the season, with Kawhi and PG missing so much time, and now Pat Bev.

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33. Yes, he needs a break. Geez, he had to start and play 36 minutes last night because Shamet [zero assists] can't play the point and Bev was out.

Hopefully he gets some relief soon. Lou's been a hero for us. Maybe we could recognize that instead of pointing fingers at him.

[NippySudz]

Read on Twitter

.
Lou has been slumping really effing hard

Also Lou will not passing to anyone other than trez doesn't help

Mostly, everybody's numbers look bad unless playing with Kawhi. But Lou in particular is slumping, true. We leaned on him heavily in the first half of the season, with Kawhi and PG missing so much time, and now Pat Bev.

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33. Yes, he needs a break. Geez, he had to start and play 36 minutes last night because Shamet [zero assists] can't play the point and Bev was out.

Hopefully he gets some relief soon. Lou's been a hero for us. Maybe we could recognize that instead of pointing fingers at him.

29mpg is high?

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[esqtvd]

Read on Twitter

.
Lou has been slumping really effing hard

Also Lou will not passing to anyone other than trez doesn't help

Mostly, everybody's numbers look bad unless playing with Kawhi. But Lou in particular is slumping, true. We leaned on him heavily in the first half of the season, with Kawhi and PG missing so much time, and now Pat Bev.

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33. Yes, he needs a break. Geez, he had to start and play 36 minutes last night because Shamet [zero assists] can't play the point and Bev was out.

Hopefully he gets some relief soon. Lou's been a hero for us. Maybe we could recognize that instead of pointing fingers at him.

29mpg is high?

for him, sure

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33.

Lou is a creator, not a spare part
and he's also bringing up the ball and leading the Clippers in assists [5.9]

let's give the man some respect
he's playing outside his comfort zone because the team needs him to

[Wammy Giveaway]

Pat's presence was missed tonight. The dude would have grabbed 10 rebounds tonight and would have been everywhere. Definitely the motor of this team. I like players that do whatever it takes to win. Kawhi is that guy, but so is Beverley. He'll do whatever is asked of him. I just wish George had that mindset instead of looking for scapegoats.

Leonard's more of a Tim Duncan-guy: shut down distraction, play your game without emotion, go robot on them. His philosophy is to turn opponent's expectation of a player against them. Instead of riling up their opponent in hopes of drawing a technical foul, flagrant foul or an ejection, they're riling themselves for refusal to express emotion, and they end up costing their team points, not to mention weakening their roster. You look at how Duncan plays with such grace, sportsmanship and respect to the game, you realize that nothing can phase him or influence him to do things that go against the spirit of basketball. He's like Michael Jackson: a lover, not a fighter, but still a Thriller.

If Leonard's the good cop, then Beverley is the bad cop, the Kobe to the Shaq, the Stephen Jackson of the Spurs, the guy who intensifies the outcome of the game. I notice that whenever Beverley's on the floor, let alone active, the Clipper's Preventions go up: they contest more, block shots more, initiate more turnovers. Without Beverley, the Clippers play it safe by basing their emotions off of Leonard: be nice, don't cause trouble, let the opponents do that for you. But this roster is just not built that way, not with how they, as the Revenge Of The Role Players, overachieved as the 8th seed without an All-Star on the roster last season. For a franchise that has only known failure and shame for all their life, feeding off of Beverley's relentless demeanor is sort of a cathartic release, a way to unseal your emotions that were capped inside a bottle. Sure, Leonard helps Clippers keep their eyes on the prize and not be naive over annual awards, but Beverley makes the Clippers care.

If Beverley were a Care Bear, I'd say he's Grumpy.

[NippySudz]

Mostly, everybody's numbers look bad unless playing with Kawhi. But Lou in particular is slumping, true. We leaned on him heavily in the first half of the season, with Kawhi and PG missing so much time, and now Pat Bev.

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33. Yes, he needs a break. Geez, he had to start and play 36 minutes last night because Shamet [zero assists] can't play the point and Bev was out.

Hopefully he gets some relief soon. Lou's been a hero for us. Maybe we could recognize that instead of pointing fingers at him.

29mpg is high?

for him, sure

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33.

Lou is a creator, not a spare part
and he's also bringing up the ball and leading the Clippers in assists [5.9]

let's give the man some respect
he's playing outside his comfort zone because the team needs him to

I'm not going to give him extra credit for playing 29mpg. Lol that's most top players career lows. 29mpg is not a lot.

We can win. It's not the end of the season. I get on our centers as a whole more than anyone but I still think we can win. Just have to be put in positions to succeed.

We were in the game despite playing a few players playing like crap. It's a good learning game but our bench has to start producing after all star break. Got to get in a rhythm. It doesn't matter who is out. That's what championship meddle is.

We're fine. Let's go clippers.

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[NippySudz]

Pat's presence was missed tonight. The dude would have grabbed 10 rebounds tonight and would have been everywhere. Definitely the motor of this team. I like players that do whatever it takes to win. Kawhi is that guy, but so is Beverley. He'll do whatever is asked of him. I just wish George had that mindset instead of looking for scapegoats.

Leonard's more of a Tim Duncan-guy: shut down distraction, play your game without emotion, go robot on them. His philosophy is to turn opponent's expectation of a player against them. Instead of riling up their opponent in hopes of drawing a technical foul, flagrant foul or an ejection, they're riling themselves for refusal to express emotion, and they end up costing their team points, not to mention weakening their roster. You look at how Duncan plays with such grace, sportsmanship and respect to the game, you realize that nothing can phase him or influence him to do things that go against the spirit of basketball. He's like Michael Jackson: a lover, not a fighter, but still a Thriller.

If Leonard's the good cop, then Beverley is the bad cop, the Kobe to the Shaq, the Stephen Jackson of the Spurs, the guy who intensifies the outcome of the game. I notice that whenever Beverley's on the floor, let alone active, the Clipper's Preventions go up: they contest more, block shots more, initiate more turnovers. Without Beverley, the Clippers play it safe by basing their emotions off of Leonard: be nice, don't cause trouble, let the opponents do that for you. But this roster is just not built that way, not with how they, as the Revenge Of The Role Players, overachieved as the 8th seed without an All-Star on the roster last season. For a franchise that has only known failure and shame for all their life, feeding off of Beverley's relentless demeanor is sort of a cathartic release, a way to unseal your emotions that were capped inside a bottle. Sure, Leonard helps Clippers keep their eyes on the prize and not be naive over annual awards, but Beverley makes the Clippers care.

If Beverley were a Care Bear, I'd say he's Grumpy.

Yeah he's leadership is missed. Kawhi is the calming force. He caused the team not to panic but Bev is the urgency and grit. His presence was missed

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[esqtvd]

29mpg is high?

for him, sure

Lou's 29.8 mpg is the 2nd-highest of his career--at age 33.

Lou is a creator, not a spare part
and he's also bringing up the ball and leading the Clippers in assists [5.9]

let's give the man some respect
he's playing outside his comfort zone because the team needs him to

I'm not going to give him extra credit for playing 29mpg. Lol that's most top players career lows. 29mpg is not a lot.

Well, I'm not gonna dog a player for not being able to do more than they're capable of. You're not going to get Lou Williams' best by making him your starting PG and playing him 36 minutes. I'm agreeing with those who want his minutes cut to say, 24, but hey, he's playing minutes the team needs. The alternative is McGruder. Or worse.

Yes, hopefully we will be ok when Bev gets back. One thing is clear--we all overestimated our depth. J-Myke is puke, and so was Harkless. Thank God we got Morris.

[MartinRiggs]

Lou might need some load management, I am hoping he'll play better after ASB. He's been unwatchable for a while, almost as bad as Jamal Crawford. But our brilliant coach does not believe in adjustment.

Just my overreaction, but Lou needs his role reduced. As does trez

Trez is an energy guy. Trezz can't give avg the mins he's averaging off the bench. Just can't allow that. Some games, sure. Half games, Ok?? I can see that?? Most games? Probably not. You have the offensive firepower you need already, trez offensive firepower is overrated in my opinion.

Agree 100%. Limit Lou to 20 minutes,Trez to 28. Both have tunnel vision and see only each other and the basket. And I would never play Trez for 12 minutes straight.

[NippySudz]

for him, sure





Lou is a creator, not a spare part
and he's also bringing up the ball and leading the Clippers in assists [5.9]

let's give the man some respect
he's playing outside his comfort zone because the team needs him to

I'm not going to give him extra credit for playing 29mpg. Lol that's most top players career lows. 29mpg is not a lot.

Well, I'm not gonna dog a player for not being able to do more than they're capable of. You're not going to get Lou Williams' best by making him your starting PG and playing him 36 minutes. I'm agreeing with those who want his minutes cut to say, 24, but hey, he's playing minutes the team needs. The alternative is McGruder. Or worse.

Yes, hopefully we will be ok when Bev gets back. One thing is clear--we all overestimated our depth. J-Myke is puke, and so was Harkless. Thank God we got Morris.

You just dogged jmyke and mcgruder. So there's that. It's okay to be critical dude ..saying Lou played bad defense and you saw it first hand isn't a knock on his offensive abilities. It just means he needs to be used different.

And jamyke cannot guard quicker agile 4s. He's alright against trees but not against people that can move east to west.

Mcgruder is not an NBA player. There's nothing he does well. Nothing.

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[esqtvd]

I'm not going to give him extra credit for playing 29mpg. Lol that's most top players career lows. 29mpg is not a lot.

Well, I'm not gonna dog a player for not being able to do more than they're capable of. You're not going to get Lou Williams' best by making him your starting PG and playing him 36 minutes. I'm agreeing with those who want his minutes cut to say, 24, but hey, he's playing minutes the team needs. The alternative is McGruder. Or worse.

Yes, hopefully we will be ok when Bev gets back. One thing is clear--we all overestimated our depth. J-Myke is puke, and so was Harkless. Thank God we got Morris.

You just dogged jmyke and mcgruder. So there's that. It's okay to be critical dude ..saying Lou played bad defense and you saw it first hand isn't a knock on his offensive abilities. It just means he needs to be used different.

And jamyke cannot guard quicker agile 4s. He's alright against trees but not against people that can move east to west.

Mcgruder is not an NBA player. There's nothing he does well. Nothing.

My problem with J-Myke is inconsistency, not his ability. McGruder, probably the opposite. [McGruder's always crap, LOL.]

My larger point is that because of injuries, Lou has to play more minutes and do things past his optimum, specifically manning the point. For this, I go easier on him. Those defensive lapses the other night were inexcusable, though. Whether they were due to fatigue or mental laziness, I trust they will be addressed.


As for the Trezz/Planet Zubac conundrum, we can say that Doc has been creeping up Zu's minutes whenever possible, by trying to extend his shifts at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters. Getting Zu to the 4- or 3-minute mark instead of just the 6:00 mark is usually a sign he's playing well and we're winning.

Unfortunately, J-Myke has not earned ANY minutes at the 5 to give Trezz a little breather in the 4th. We hope that maybe Morris can, or at least that Morris at the 4 alongside Trezz can solve those doldrums at the beginning of the 4th when Kawhi is getting HIS breather.

I can't blame Trezz for his bad ratings and plus/minuses anytime he's out there dragging around stiffs like McGruder and J-Myke, and then compounding the problem with Lou's bad defense and G Leaguers playing NBA minutes. Those numbers Russo posted are alarming, and Trezz is definitely struggling/slumping, but pointing a finger at him isn't the same as putting your finger on the problem.

Plus, if getting Bev back and playing MM at either the 4 or the 5 can't help, I dunno what they hell we're gonna do.

[NippySudz]

Well, I'm not gonna dog a player for not being able to do more than they're capable of. You're not going to get Lou Williams' best by making him your starting PG and playing him 36 minutes. I'm agreeing with those who want his minutes cut to say, 24, but hey, he's playing minutes the team needs. The alternative is McGruder. Or worse.

Yes, hopefully we will be ok when Bev gets back. One thing is clear--we all overestimated our depth. J-Myke is puke, and so was Harkless. Thank God we got Morris.

You just dogged jmyke and mcgruder. So there's that. It's okay to be critical dude ..saying Lou played bad defense and you saw it first hand isn't a knock on his offensive abilities. It just means he needs to be used different.

And jamyke cannot guard quicker agile 4s. He's alright against trees but not against people that can move east to west.

Mcgruder is not an NBA player. There's nothing he does well. Nothing.

My problem with J-Myke is inconsistency, not his ability. McGruder, probably the opposite. [McGruder's always crap, LOL.]

My larger point is that because of injuries, Lou has to play more minutes and do things past his optimum, specifically manning the point. For this, I go easier on him. Those defensive lapses the other night were inexcusable, though. Whether they were due to fatigue or mental laziness, I trust they will be addressed.


As for the Trezz/Planet Zubac conundrum, we can say that Doc has been creeping up Zu's minutes whenever possible, by trying to extend his shifts at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters. Getting Zu to the 4- or 3-minute mark instead of just the 6:00 mark is usually a sign he's playing well and we're winning.

Unfortunately, J-Myke has not earned ANY minutes at the 5 to give Trezz a little breather in the 4th. We hope that maybe Morris can, or at least that Morris at the 4 alongside Trezz can solve those doldrums at the beginning of the 4th when Kawhi is getting HIS breather.

I can't blame Trezz for his bad ratings and plus/minuses anytime he's out there dragging around stiffs like McGruder and J-Myke, and then compounding the problem with Lou's bad defense and G Leaguers playing NBA minutes. Those numbers Russo posted are alarming, and Trezz is definitely struggling/slumping, but pointing a finger at him isn't the same as putting your finger on the problem.

Plus, if getting Bev back and playing MM at either the 4 or the 5 can't help, I dunno what they hell we're gonna do.

I see your point but I disagree. You can't get on jamyke but Lou and trezz been playing like crap for a month and a half and somewhat excuse that

They both get a ton of credit as the bench unit. So when **** goes bad, they gonna get a lot of the attention. We need those guys to be well.

They are keys to this team winning a Championship

And dude you've been watching Lou will for a long time brother. He's easy to backdoor. He ballwatches a lot. I can find plays earlier in this season of him doing the exact same thing. La clippers film posted about it early in the season. That's him.

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