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Running it Back Would Be a Mistake

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Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#1 » by Quake Griffin » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:59 pm

Ballmer cannot sit idly by as we just re-sign everybody, retain Doc, and run this back as is.

There is ZERO chance running it back leads to a championship.
There is [next to] ZERO chance that losing in the 2nd round (if that) next year, convinces Kawhi to spend the back 9 of his career here.
Doc is not improving as a coach at all.
He is not a better coach than the competition we will have for the next 5 years in the west.
Paul George is not a playoff performer. Closing your eyes and hoping he just magically performs better next year in the playoffs is malpractice.
Lou is not a consistent reliable playoff performer. Even against GSW he ran hot and cold.
Lou and Trezz are one way players and those issues become exacerbated against good teams and great coaching.

Clipper fans deserve to see our franchise maneuver itself into the best position possible.
Running it back for another disappointing season with no assets to jump start an inevitable rebuild is malpractice and it may cripple this franchise for the 2020s.

Thanks Kawhi.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#2 » by MartinToVaught » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:23 pm

If they run it back, they'll be lucky to make the playoffs. It sounds like an overreaction, but let's think about it logically. The Clippers have:

- The worst coach in sports who will always underachieve
- A toxic locker room
- The most intense scrutiny and mockery that any team has ever faced in NBA history
- One star who can't play back-to-backs
- Another star who's injury-prone
- A starting point guard who's also injury-prone (and the team plays a lot worse without him)

Meanwhile, the rest of the conference is improving. The Lakers and Nuggets are already better than us. The Warriors will be back at full strength. The Mavs will be better than us. That's the top 4 already locked in. We'll be competing with the Rockets, Blazers, Jazz, Thunder, Suns and Grizzlies for the last four spots, and none of those teams are as dysfunctional as this team is.

If Ballmer and the front office think nothing could possibly go wrong by running this same team back, they are delusional. The best case scenario of running it back is Lob City all over again: running in place while the rest of the league passes us by. But with how much of a mess this team is right now, a total implosion of a season isn't unrealistic.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#3 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:02 pm

I mean I'm pretty certain we'd make the playoffs next season if we ran it back (barring major injury), but going with your scenario it would be meaningless anyway to be say a 4th or 5th seed and get run out in the 2nd round again.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#4 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:12 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Ballmer cannot sit idly by as we just re-sign everybody, retain Doc, and run this back as is.

There is ZERO chance running it back leads to a championship.
There is [next to] ZERO chance that losing in the 2nd round (if that) next year, convinces Kawhi to spend the back 9 of his career here.
Doc is not improving as a coach at all.
He is not a better coach than the competition we will have for the next 5 years in the west.
Paul George is not a playoff performer. Closing your eyes and hoping he just magically performs better next year in the playoffs is malpractice.
Lou is not a consistent reliable playoff performer. Even against GSW he ran hot and cold.
Lou and Trezz are one way players and those issues become exacerbated against good teams and great coaching.

Clipper fans deserve to see our franchise maneuver itself into the best position possible.
Running it back for another disappointing season with no assets to jump start an inevitable rebuild is malpractice and it may cripple this franchise for the 2020s.

Thanks Kawhi.


Kawhi is at least as good as I though he was when we signed him, probably better.

Some of our favorite guys from 2019- PBev, Lou, Trezz- can only be complementary players due to weaknesses in their games. They're fun to root for when your goal is 48-50 wins, but that's their upside if they are ALL getting major minutes.

I agree with everything you say, although I do think we can get a lot more out of Paul George next season if we make the necessary adjustments to our roster. He needs to be facilitated somewhat, when he forces iso's he ends up with tough shots and turnovers. I don't think he's a choker, I think if you can run some plays for him he will produce. But if we run the same thing back next season, then I agree it's going to largely go the same way as this season.

At the very least, I think we are going to try to get a legit starting point guard, and then shore up as many other holes as we can with MLE and small acquisitions (since we don't have a lot of room to maneuver.)

I'd love to see both roster changes and a great new coach. If we get only one, I guess I am okay with roster changes if they are good ones (I mean the one constant of our FO right now is we make moves.) A new coach could get our same roster past the 2nd round next season, but beyond that is dicey.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#5 » by Chronz » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:54 pm

Check the teams srs, show me an instance where a team this good declines to that point you're talking about. PG13 has had bounce back seasons before. That's literally all we need
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#6 » by Roscoe Sheed » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:59 pm

I think that some of the guys linked to bad team chemistry should probably go- either let them walk or trade them. Only the organization truly knows who it is- I suspect Lou and Trez. They were both central to the over-achieving team last season and probably didn't like relinquishing leadership roles. Perhaps Pat Bev is like that too, although it seemed like he supported everybody. Morris may be the guy saying he thinks he is as good as PG.

I think they need to prioritize getting a true point guard and finding a decent defensive center who can also stretch the floor- I'd like Gasol or Ibaka, but that may be asking for too much.

I also agree that more plays need to be run for PG that are not isos. He is such a good 3 point shooter- they should run more screen plays for PG, similar to some of the plays they ran for Redick.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#7 » by TheNewEra » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:27 am

I can’t see them bringing back Harrell after all the slick media attacks against PG. Front office can’t be that blind even though they are bringing Doc back
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#8 » by ejftw » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:55 am

It would only be a mistake if they keep Doc around.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#9 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:56 pm

ejftw wrote:It would only be a mistake if they keep Doc around.

I still think the roster is sorta flawed.

You have Pat Bev being energetic on D but not much else.
You have Lou who is great on offense in the regular season but bleeds on defense.
You have Trezz who is good on offense in the regular season but bleeds on defense.
I dunno if Reggie is good at anything anymore.
Shamet is a combo guard that isn't really a combo guard.

It's a weird roster. One that had plenty of places to get exploited and Denver did that.

Should Doc have steered us past Denver? Oh of course. That failure is his. No excuses for him.
But would the Lakers have figured this team out? Would the Heat?

I think both of those strong possibilities.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#10 » by TheNewEra » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:43 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:
ejftw wrote:It would only be a mistake if they keep Doc around.

I still think the roster is sorta flawed.

You have Pat Bev being energetic on D but not much else.
You have Lou who is great on offense in the regular season but bleeds on defense.
You have Trezz who is good on offense in the regular season but bleeds on defense.
I dunno if Reggie is good at anything anymore.
Shamet is a combo guard that isn't really a combo guard.

It's a weird roster. One that had plenty of places to get exploited and Denver did that.

Should Doc have steered us past Denver? Oh of course. That failure is his. No excuses for him.
But would the Lakers have figured this team out? Would the Heat?

I think both of those strong possibilities.



A lot of the things that fell apart were our biggest needs. We knew we needed another playmaker and we got Reggie but as a starter he was out of control. He was hitting shots and still had some passing but Doc differed to the Lou/Shamet combo that showed no promise at all and Shamet wasn’t hitting shots.

Beverly ball pressure and tempo was able to speed us up and get us into sets faster. Think Beverly allowed PG to play better but we probably needed more scoring. The bench being as bad as it was we thought putting PG and Beverly with them would stop the bleeding but it wasn’t enough.

-One of Shamet and Lou has to be gone this offseason
-We need a backup playmaker/defender PG
-another 3 and D wing
-A true backup C

Basically we need to normalize a bench that we knew we needed to fix going into the playoffs
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#11 » by clipperlover » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:01 pm

Glad to see we have propelled ourselves to the likes of the 2011-2012 Philadelphia Eagles and 2019-2020 Cleveland Browns: Paper Champions. So, many people raising that trophy before a game was played.

Coaching staff treated Kawhi and PG differently than the rest of the team. Players like Lou and Trez didn't handle that well. Those two probably felt they were the reason we made it to the playoffs the prior season and should get some special treatment also. This is the whole Silver Spoon situation without the nepotism. Those fundamental personnel issues need to be resolved before this team can move forward.

When Boogie went down last August and we had not signed Dwight Howard, we allowed the Lakers to fill a huge gap in their roster while at the same time leaving a huge gap in ours. Just one of many strategic blunders along the way.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#12 » by Clemenza » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:13 pm

Roscoe Sheed wrote:I think that some of the guys linked to bad team chemistry should probably go- either let them walk or trade them. Only the organization truly knows who it is- I suspect Lou and Trez. They were both central to the over-achieving team last season and probably didn't like relinquishing leadership roles. Perhaps Pat Bev is like that too, although it seemed like he supported everybody. Morris may be the guy saying he thinks he is as good as PG.

I think they need to prioritize getting a true point guard and finding a decent defensive center who can also stretch the floor- I'd like Gasol or Ibaka, but that may be asking for too much.

I also agree that more plays need to be run for PG that are not isos. He is such a good 3 point shooter- they should run more screen plays for PG, similar to some of the plays they ran for Redick.

If we don't get a point guard in the offseason me and a few folks on a few other message boards are floating the ideal of moving PG to point guard kind of like what the Lakers did with LeBron. And that doesn't mean he'll hog the ball and take too many shots. It would still put him as the #2 or #3 option on offense. He'll have to tighten his handle/dribbling a bit but it could take less pressure off him mentally by facilitating more and setting some guys up. This is only if we don't get a real guard in the offseason.. cause if we don't then we're going to have to get more out of Kawhi and PG then having them play iso ball and taking turns each possession on offense which can come to a grinding halt in the post season. If we don't have a star at pg or a star at center next season then we're going to have to get creative. And of course get rid of Doc but it doesn't look like that's going to happen..smh


-Also we need that player development(trust the process) and x-factor to arise in addition to PG and Kawhi.

X-factors- Lou, Trez, Morris, Pat Bev = nowhere to be found in the bubble whatsoever. Complete failure

Player development- Zu, Shamet, Kabengele, Mann, Coffey = There's some promise here. We need at least two of these guys to make some type of leap next season. That would be huge for the team moving forward. Put Shamet back at the two guard and run some JJ Redick off the screen plays for him. Also commit to Zu a bit more. Get him in that weight room and tell him we're expecting bigger things from you next season. Next season should be the year we find out if Zu, Kabengele, and Mann are really worth investing in period. Hate to say it but I'm moving on from Lou and Trezz. Not sure about Morris Sr. and Pat Bev(who antics are now a detriment to the team)
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#13 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:24 pm

Clemenza wrote: Put Shamet back at the two guard and run some JJ Redick off the screen plays for him.

This dynamic was missing from our offense.

I was under the impression going into the year that we were gonna develop this kid and use this as a weapon. Instead, we brought him off the bench, then injuries happened etc. etc.

He should be one of our beautiful development stories.
Not a guy we have questions about.


This year was just completely mismanaged and the mismanagement of this year started long before this year started.
smfh.

Go Heat....I guess.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#14 » by Clemenza » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:36 pm

clipperlover wrote:Glad to see we have propelled ourselves to the likes of the 2011-2012 Philadelphia Eagles and 2019-2020 Cleveland Browns: Paper Champions. So, many people raising that trophy before a game was played.

Coaching staff treated Kawhi and PG differently than the rest of the team. Players like Lou and Trez didn't handle that well. Those two probably felt they were the reason we made it to the playoffs the prior season and should get some special treatment also. This is the whole Silver Spoon situation without the nepotism. Those fundamental personnel issues need to be resolved before this team can move forward.

When Boogie went down last August and we had not signed Dwight Howard, we allowed the Lakers to fill a huge gap in their roster while at the same time leaving a huge gap in ours. Just one of many strategic blunders along the way.

Yeah our vaulted so called "god-like" front office can't be free from blame in a lot of this. First of all they still have Doc running the show. Passed on MJP in the draft- I know his injury report wasn't good but they still had to draft him anyway imo. Didn't pick up Howard- and too me the Lakers now look like a Big 3 type of team with him. Howard's not a star but more of a prime DeAndre Jordan type. He would've been huge for us. I questioned the Moe Harkless and additives for Morris Sr. trade. I have league pass and those big numbers he put up for the Knicks were because he was on a bad team with extremely low pressure games. I wasn't sure if that would translate for us. I liked the defense, rebounding, blocked shots, diving for loose balls that Harkless provided with a little bit of offense that he provided.. perfect for what we needed in the bubble. Signed Noah but for what? Didn't even through him on Jokic for one second to see if he could at least slow him down and provide a spark for the team. And I really don't give them props for landing Kawhi because he and Uncle Dennis were pretty much calling those shots. West, Frank, and Ballmer are going to have to figure what direction this team is headed in fast. They've been real quiet as of late.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#15 » by NickP » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:01 pm

So let's say we do get our dream team together. Trez Lou Bev Sham etc all gone.
But our nightmare of a coach will still find ways to fcuk it up in the second round.
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#16 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:26 pm

We aint running it back brehs!!!!!111

Wonder what the convo was like.


Doc: Let's run it back.

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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#17 » by esqtvd » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:45 pm

can't fire the whole team

Read on Twitter



or can you? :lol:

Read on Twitter
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#18 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:56 pm

esqtvd wrote:can't fire the whole team

Read on Twitter



or can you? :lol:

Read on Twitter

Shouldn't you be busy ordering your Sixers or Pelicans jersey?
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#19 » by esqtvd » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:06 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
esqtvd wrote:can't fire the whole team

Read on Twitter



or can you? :lol:

Read on Twitter

Shouldn't you be busy ordering your Sixers or Pelicans jersey?


you continually misrepresented my posts

all I ever said was that's Doc's moves were reasonable
not everything that doesn't work is a mistake
that's how losers think

had we won Game 7, who knows?

we looked great up to the COVID shutdown
but EVERY SINGLE CLIPPER player played below par in the bubble

and finally quit like dogs in Game 7

so Doc has to go
I agree with decision
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Re: Running it Back Would Be a Mistake 

Post#20 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:13 pm

LOL, yeah, continuing to play Trez against Jokic sure was "reasonable." I mean, just look at the results!

When something doesn't work in your first series, still doesn't work in your second series, and you STILL keep forcing it even while you're in the process of blowing the series, calling it a "mistake" is being generous.

Time to move on to your next team. Your shtick has run its course here.
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