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Wow, Doc actually did something that helps the Clippers for a change!

MartinToVaught wrote:Wow, Doc actually did something that helps the Clippers for a change!

They tried to blow the lead in a Doc-esque manner but managed to pull it out. I'm happy for Tobias Harris- he seems to have rediscovered his game

NickP wrote:Watched the Philly game. Same old Doc. Refusing to call time outs. Getting bailed on a ISO play. Lol

Lol I was watching the end also, everything looked soooo familiar. No ball movements, all one on ones, no communications on D. Had to be bailed out by Tobias.

NickP wrote:Watched the Philly game. Same old Doc. Refusing to call time outs. Getting bailed on a ISO play. Lol

With about 10 seconds left in the game, they're not going to be able to run a lot of off-ball action.

They set up a mismatch, for Harris to get a high percentage shot over a shorter defender off the pick and switch. They had Curry set the pick so the smallest defender would be on Harris after the switch.

LamarWho wrote:

NickP wrote:Watched the Philly game. Same old Doc. Refusing to call time outs. Getting bailed on a ISO play. Lol

Lol I was watching the end also, everything looked soooo familiar. No ball movements, all one on ones, no communications on D. Had to be bailed out by Tobias.

I saw the highlight of Tobias' shot, heard they blew a 14-point 4th quarter lead before that, and thought "yep, that's Doc." I also assumed Doc didn't call any timeouts to stop the momentum and from the sound of things, I was right about that too.

Don't be fooled by the regular season record, Sixer fans. This is who Doc is, he'll never change, and he *will* cost you a winnable playoff series every year "coaching" this way.

wco81 wrote:

NickP wrote:Watched the Philly game. Same old Doc. Refusing to call time outs. Getting bailed on a ISO play. Lol

With about 10 seconds left in the game, they're not going to be able to run a lot of off-ball action.

They set up a mismatch, for Harris to get a high percentage shot over a shorter defender off the pick and switch. They had Curry set the pick so the smallest defender would be on Harris after the switch.

I watched the replay and don't think that's how it went down. Caruso was always on Harris. The play was not for Harris taking the last shot but it worked for Doc.

Legler broke it down, how they let the Lakers go on a 13-0 run to get a 1-point lead with about 11 seconds left.

76ers wasted some possessions because Embiid would get doubled in the post and so he was hanging out outside the 3-point line and then Wallace in the half court wouldn't take a shot himself.

The Embiid-Wallace shortcomings still exist and may be the ultimate downfall of this team.

wco81 wrote:Legler broke it down, how they let the Lakers go on a 13-0 run to get a 1-point lead with about 11 seconds left.

76ers wasted some possessions because Embiid would get doubled in the post and so he was hanging out outside the 3-point line and then Wallace in the half court wouldn't take a shot himself.

The Embiid-Wallace shortcomings still exist and may be the ultimate downfall of this team.

Are you referring to Simmons? Who is Wallace?

WALLACE

WALLACE

- the wire

Roscoe Sheed wrote:

wco81 wrote:Legler broke it down, how they let the Lakers go on a 13-0 run to get a 1-point lead with about 11 seconds left.

76ers wasted some possessions because Embiid would get doubled in the post and so he was hanging out outside the 3-point line and then Wallace in the half court wouldn't take a shot himself.

The Embiid-Wallace shortcomings still exist and may be the ultimate downfall of this team.

Are you referring to Simmons? Who is Wallace?

Yeah, Simmons. It remains a big problem that he's afraid to shoot. But Doc does have Embiid finally reaching his potential and contrary to reputation is giving heavy minutes to 2 second-year players and a rookie. Sixers already look much more focused and cohesive than last year.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CLXWmpXs-Fa/?igshid=d86p6982j084

Just lol.

I can't find that interview but when Doc signed here he had talked about DTS' tendencies but gave him a pass and still signed here anyway. Such a fraud

That Sterling incident was a nightmare tho

This is in the wrong thread.
The discussion of BG and CP3 conflict is the point, and deserved to be in a different thread.

Kelphus wrote:This is in the wrong thread.
The discussion of BG and CP3 conflict is the point, and deserved to be in a different thread.

Exactly. CP3 couldn't lead; BG couldn't lead OR follow. They all realize it now. CP and Blake played separately together--Blake on the left block, Chris at the right elbow, and seldom the twain did meet. [Only on the fast breaks.] Chris didn't get it until he was exiled to OKC. Blake never got it at all.

Barnes sees it all too now. Interesting he seems to be right with Doc. I thought there was some bad blood when Matt got dumped but apparently they got straight.

delete

esqtvd wrote:

Kelphus wrote:This is in the wrong thread.
The discussion of BG and CP3 conflict is the point, and deserved to be in a different thread.

Exactly. CP3 couldn't lead; BG couldn't lead OR follow. They all realize it now. CP and Blake played separately together--Blake on the left block, Chris at the right elbow, and seldom the twain did meet. [Only on the fast breaks.] Chris didn't get it until he was exiled to OKC. Blake never got it at all.

Barnes sees it all too now. Interesting he seems to be right with Doc. I thought there was some bad blood when Matt got dumped but apparently they got straight.

Leadership or not good enough?
They frame it as leadership because every team that wins 55-57 games is going to believe that they are a contender and that they can beat anyone else, and they should, and for the most part they can. The problem is that being "able" to beat another team on any given night doesn't mean you can take 4/7. Taking 4/7 consistently requires talent, health, matchups, adjustments.

It's easier for them to say "we just didn't have enough leadership, etc", and that's stuff matters, it's not irrelevant, but it wasn't stopping them from winning 55+ games in the regular season or from having the league's best/most efficient offense in the league for like 3 straight seasons when they were healthy, or beating the defending champ Spurs in a grueling series, but suddenly when they lose to equally good or better/deeper teams, it was the leadership, not...gulp...their lack of enough talent on both ends and non-existent quality depth.

No depth
Those teams were very good, but they were fighting an uphill battle with their wing depth in 13-14 after Dudley became a dud, and their overall depth in general in 14-15. They simply weren't a good/deep enough or healthy enough team. When healthy, they couldn't defend well enough to consistently outlast equally capable offensive teams, and when they got a bit better defensively they were ravaged with injuries and had no chance at anything.

Small health window
It sucks, but their health gave them a two year window, they lost to an OKC team that matched/eclipsed them in star power and had superior size and defensive capability. Could have won, but could win doesn't mean you will or are favored. They lost to a Houston team they should have beat, because they had no reliable players off the bench and were playing 22 year old Austin 18 mpg because there were no other options and relying on Jamal who was 35 by the time the playoffs started to play 27 mpg and produce (and he did decently well vs San Antonio). The problem is clear when you take off the rose colored glasses as a fan or a member of the team.

Wanted...3 or so quality bench players
The team had 7.5 playable players in the 14-15 playoffs, the main two off the bench were flawed guards, and the bench big was Big Baby with a bum ankle. Austin wouldn't have gotten minutes on any other 55+ win team trying to compete because they would have found/had someone else.

The revolving door roster also really cost them. Started the season with Farmar, CDR, Hawes as the off-season additions and they were either off the team or not playing in the playoffs. That was the MLE, BAE and a minimum contract (and team was hard capped), all three had no impact on improving the team, that's a tough, tough off-season result. Their starting lineup was very effective, but had exploits, DJ's FT shooting and lack of scoring ability. Redick's size and limited off dribble creation, Barnes unreliable shooting, no wing creator.

I always had hope, but I'm also realstic about what that team was. If you transport a healthy version of their 15-16 roster (minus Barnes trade) to the previous seasons, their chances improve. The 13-14 or 14-15 Clippers with Barnes/Johnson/Mbah just gives them a lot more options on the wing. Even if you still trade Barnes and have Jeff Green with his limitations, a forward combo of any of those three is still better than the one that was just Barnes and playing Jamal Crawford at SF. When Crawford and Barnes are cold or tired on defense, you have two other options for wing minutes. Vs Houston, there were no options. Lester Hudson, 34 year old Danhtay Jones or washed up Hedo who was a PF then were not seeing any critical playoff minutes.

Things don't always work out, sucks, but it is what it is.

og15 wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

Kelphus wrote:This is in the wrong thread.
The discussion of BG and CP3 conflict is the point, and deserved to be in a different thread.

Exactly. CP3 couldn't lead; BG couldn't lead OR follow. They all realize it now. CP and Blake played separately together--Blake on the left block, Chris at the right elbow, and seldom the twain did meet. [Only on the fast breaks.] Chris didn't get it until he was exiled to OKC. Blake never got it at all.

Barnes sees it all too now. Interesting he seems to be right with Doc. I thought there was some bad blood when Matt got dumped but apparently they got straight.

Leadership or not good enough?
They frame it as leadership because every team that wins 55-57 games is going to believe that they are a contender and that they can beat anyone else, and they should, and for the most part they can. The problem is that being "able" to beat another team on any given night doesn't mean you can take 4/7. Taking 4/7 consistently requires talent, health, matchups, adjustments.

It's easier for them to say "we just didn't have enough leadership, etc", and that's stuff matters, it's not irrelevant, but it wasn't stopping them from winning 55+ games in the regular season or from having the league's best/most efficient offense in the league for like 3 straight seasons when they were healthy, or beating the defending champ Spurs in a grueling series, but suddenly when they lose to equally good or better/deeper teams, it was the leadership, not...gulp...their lack of enough talent on both ends and non-existent quality depth.

No depth
Those teams were very good, but they were fighting an uphill battle with their wing depth in 13-14 after Dudley became a dud, and their overall depth in general in 14-15. They simply weren't a good/deep enough or healthy enough team. When healthy, they couldn't defend well enough to consistently outlast equally capable offensive teams, and when they got a bit better defensively they were ravaged with injuries and had no chance at anything.

Small health window
It sucks, but their health gave them a two year window, they lost to an OKC team that matched/eclipsed them in star power and had superior size and defensive capability. Could have won, but could win doesn't mean you will or are favored. They lost to a Houston team they should have beat, because they had no reliable players off the bench and were playing 22 year old Austin 18 mpg because there were no other options and relying on Jamal who was 35 by the time the playoffs started to play 27 mpg and produce (and he did decently well vs San Antonio). The problem is clear when you take off the rose colored glasses as a fan or a member of the team.

Wanted...3 or so quality bench players
The team had 7.5 playable players in the 14-15 playoffs, the main two off the bench were flawed guards, and the bench big was Big Baby with a bum ankle. Austin wouldn't have gotten minutes on any other 55+ win team trying to compete because they would have found/had someone else.

The revolving door roster also really cost them. Started the season with Farmar, CDR, Hawes as the off-season additions and they were either off the team or not playing in the playoffs. That was the MLE, BAE and a minimum contract (and team was hard capped), all three had no impact on improving the team, that's a tough, tough off-season result. Their starting lineup was very effective, but had exploits, DJ's FT shooting and lack of scoring ability. Redick's size and limited off dribble creation, Barnes unreliable shooting, no wing creator.

I always had hope, but I'm also realstic about what that team was. If you transport a healthy version of their 15-16 roster (minus Barnes trade) to the previous seasons, their chances improve. The 13-14 or 14-15 Clippers with Barnes/Johnson/Mbah just gives them a lot more options on the wing. Even if you still trade Barnes and have Jeff Green with his limitations, a forward combo of any of those three is still better than the one that was just Barnes and playing Jamal Crawford at SF. When Crawford and Barnes are cold or tired on defense, you have two other options for wing minutes. Vs Houston, there were no options. Lester Hudson, 34 year old Danhtay Jones or washed up Hedo who was a PF then were not seeing any critical playoff minutes.

Things don't always work out, sucks, but it is what it is.

All valid points, although "leadership" was not just lacking, the two "leaders" were pulling in opposite directions.

But I blame the roster depth foremost too, in particular that CP, BG and DJ ate 60-70% of the sal cap, iirc. It was the $20M for DJ that broke the camel's back, IMO, and gave us, as you say, a 7 1/2-man rotation, filled out with minimum-wage rejects surrounding Jamal.

You couldn't even put your 3rd-highest paid player out there with the game on the line because he couldn't get his own shot and was a disaster from the FT line.

I also agree about the injuries--even when everybody got healed up for the playoffs, we limped in every year, with iirc Jamal playing massive numbers of minutes in March and April filling in for CP or Blake or somebody. Even the Jeff Green experiment never happened--he was brought in to be our dream 6'9" SF beside Blake but ended up at PF when Blake broke down in the regular season and then again in the playoffs. Then Orlando threw way too much money at him in that crazy summer of '16 and he was gone.

Yes i now believe in Doc ☺️

LOL