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Playoff Rondo Main Priority

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Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#1 » by UnFadeable21 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:10 pm

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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#2 » by TheNewEra » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:23 pm

Seems more like a leverage move for the lakers to pay up more. No reason for him to leave and AD loves him on the team
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#3 » by UnFadeable21 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:29 pm

Clippers need a guy who can run offense and get teammates easy buckets. That’s what they missed in the Denver series. Everyone went hero ball instead of running actions or plays.

2 year 15 million deal should get it done.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#4 » by MartinToVaught » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:43 pm

Knowing our luck, "Playoff Rondo" will start stinking it up in the playoffs as soon as he signs here.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#5 » by DieHardFan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:01 pm

I would rather give a chance to Terrence Mann over Rondo. Don't want any laker with ring to "save" us.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#6 » by nickhx2 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:22 pm

would be highly concerned it'd be another paul piece type signing.

the other issue is if he's goofing off through the RS only to turn it up in the playoffs, that is kinda problematic, too. the team is likely going to go through a moderate overhaul and we need them to develop chemistry from the first game of the RS, not the first game of the playoffs.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#7 » by Roscoe Sheed » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:28 pm

DieHardFan wrote:I would rather give a chance to Terrence Mann over Rondo. Don't want any laker with ring to "save" us.

Whatever it takes to win, I'm in favor it. I don't care if the team was full of former Lakers if they win
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#8 » by Goner » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:02 am

Vets have a tendency of washing up here, as in once they get here they are fully washed. Happened to Chauncey and Pierce just in the last few years, and I'm not about to test Rondo's tank with such an uninspired signing. First, the FO needs to determine what kind of offense Lue will be installing. If it's a motion-based offense (like I hope) then we don't need a floor general, per sé, and could go with someone like Teague who also offers solid scoring upside. If not, and the idea is build on the lack of structure from last year, then we need someone like Rondo who can run things while everyone is standing around so Kawhi doesn't get too tired doing everything.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#9 » by esqtvd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:47 am

Goner wrote: Vets have a tendency of washing up here, as in once they get here they are fully washed. Happened to Chauncey and Pierce just in the last few years, and I'm not about to test Rondo's tank with such an uninspired signing.


Chauncey was terrific 'til he got hurt. Pierce ALMOST came in 2014-15 and then went on to a good season and great postseason with the Wizards. If Lob City had had the PP of 2015, or if Chauncey had made it through to the playoffs, I do believe we'd have had a real chance both years. We were one bullet short. The idea was right. The Whos were right, both championship players. The Whens were wrong.

So that said, I agree with you completely. Putting your eggs in a 35+-year-old basket is stupid. Rondo turns 35 in February, and hasn't played 30 mpg since he was 29.

Now, Ricky Rubio just turned 30. THAT would be fun... :wink:
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#10 » by esqtvd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:30 am

Goner wrote:First, the FO needs to determine what kind of offense Lue will be installing. If it's a motion-based offense (like I hope) then we don't need a floor general, per sé, and could go with someone like Teague who also offers solid scoring upside. If not, and the idea is build on the lack of structure from last year, then we need someone like Rondo who can run things while everyone is standing around so Kawhi doesn't get too tired doing everything.


So far it still looks like "Same Thing But Different":


What the Clippers could look like with Tyronn Lue’s changes next season


https://theathletic.com/2157720/2020/10/27/tyronn-lue-clippers-changes-next-season/

    Contrary to the belief of some, the Clippers don’t need to tweak much next season.

Uh oh. Not a good start. :P


    This past season, the Clippers were top five in offensive and defensive rating, which are the traditional benchmarks for a championship contender. They were 15 minutes away — twice — from advancing to the conference finals before collapsing against Denver. They also have one of the NBA’s three best players in Kawhi Leonard, the type of talent whose influence necessitates that the conference semifinals are the floor and a championship is the ceiling.

    Even if they largely run back the same roster, with the primary changes only being the addition of new coach Tyronn Lue and a couple of bench players, the Clippers are almost certainly going to be a top-five team with a legitimate chance of winning the title next season.

    ...

    Refining the pace
    Every coach seemingly mentions “pace” during their introduction. It’s one of the easier tweaks to envision when pitching to ownership or a front office.

    On brand, the first change that Lue mentioned in his press conference was playing with better pace.

    The Clippers were actually eighth in pace this season, and they ranked eighth in pace in the postseason (which was about league average given there are 16 teams in the playoffs). They were also eighth in points per 100 possessions off turnovers and 12th in fast-break points per 100 possessions.

    Essentially, they were in the upper third of the league in most transition and early offense categories. That’s good, but they can be even better.

    ...

    Improving ball movement
    One of the Clippers’ biggest weaknesses this season was their lack of a high-level, primary ballhandler.

    Leonard, Paul George, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams and Reggie Jackson ran the offense well, as the team finished No. 2 in offensive rating, but the Clippers lacked consistent penetration and a drive-and-kick game. Their best scorers (Leonard, Williams and George) love the midrange. Though those players are capable and relatively efficient difficult shot makers, it sometimes made the offense predictable and too reliant on tough, contested shots going in.

    They were middling in effective field-goal percentage in all five shot categories, so it’s not as if the Clippers’ isolation players were warranted in taking so many dribbles before shots. It’s just the style of play of Leonard, George, Williams, Montrezl Harrell and Marcus Morris Sr.

    At their worst, the Clippers played far too much isolation basketball. They were 28th in passes made and received this season, just ahead of the Rockets and Trail Blazers — heliocentric teams also reliant on two primary scorers (James Harden and Russell Westbrook for Houston, Damian Lillard and C.J. McCollum for Portland).

    That figure must improve next season. Passing just to pass is nonsensical, but a team as good as the Clippers will only improve offensively with more passing and movement, and less isolating and dribbling. Lue doesn’t necessarily need to call set plays every time down, but he needs to provide a more structured system with more screening, cutting and off-ball movement overall.

    ...

    Increasing 3-point volume
    It’s difficult to compare Lue’s personnel in Cleveland to his personnel in Los Angeles. The makeup of the rosters is different, as is the ideal playing style around the superstars.

    But the Clippers could stand to use an injection of modernity into their offensive system, particularly in the form of taking more 3-pointers. The Clippers were just 17th in 3-point attempts per 100 possessions this season, making their second-ranked offense even more impressive. Stars need spacing to operate, and having multiple floor spacers is a necessity in the modern NBA.

    ...

    The Clippers will likely seek a point guard upgrade on the trade market, though their options will be limited given their lack of draft capital and attractive assets. The free-agent market is also bleak. Regardless, the Clippers will likely have a different second-unit point guard next season — and possibly a different starting point guard — who can create more efficiently in the pick-and-roll and reliably get downhill.




"Regardless." The Clips need a real PG but have nothing to trade and the FA market is bleak. o-kaaaaaaaaay :roll:

As you can tell, I'm not much of a Jovan Buha fan lol, who wrote this exercise in belaboring the obvious. Pace. Ball movement. Attack the basket. Shoot 3s. Spacing.

Duh.

Barring the FO fleecing some idiot Billy King out there or trading half their roster for half of Houston's--not a bad idea at that--in 2021 the Clips will again trot out the Doc Rivers Show except without Doc.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#11 » by TheNewEra » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:56 am

nickhx2 wrote:would be highly concerned it'd be another paul piece type signing.

the other issue is if he's goofing off through the RS only to turn it up in the playoffs, that is kinda problematic, too. the team is likely going to go through a moderate overhaul and we need them to develop chemistry from the first game of the RS, not the first game of the playoffs.



Also if Beverly goes down and Rondo decides to mail it in could mess with seeding
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#12 » by nickhx2 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:15 am

yeah generally i'd say who cares about seeding but this team cannot screw around.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#13 » by Goner » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:18 am

esqtvd wrote:
Goner wrote:First, the FO needs to determine what kind of offense Lue will be installing. If it's a motion-based offense (like I hope) then we don't need a floor general, per sé, and could go with someone like Teague who also offers solid scoring upside. If not, and the idea is build on the lack of structure from last year, then we need someone like Rondo who can run things while everyone is standing around so Kawhi doesn't get too tired doing everything.


So far it still looks like "Same Thing But Different":


Spoiler:
What the Clippers could look like with Tyronn Lue’s changes next season

https://theathletic.com/2157720/2020/10/27/tyronn-lue-clippers-changes-next-season/

    Contrary to the belief of some, the Clippers don’t need to tweak much next season.

Uh oh. Not a good start. :P


    This past season, the Clippers were top five in offensive and defensive rating, which are the traditional benchmarks for a championship contender. They were 15 minutes away — twice — from advancing to the conference finals before collapsing against Denver. They also have one of the NBA’s three best players in Kawhi Leonard, the type of talent whose influence necessitates that the conference semifinals are the floor and a championship is the ceiling.

    Even if they largely run back the same roster, with the primary changes only being the addition of new coach Tyronn Lue and a couple of bench players, the Clippers are almost certainly going to be a top-five team with a legitimate chance of winning the title next season.

    ...

    Refining the pace
    Every coach seemingly mentions “pace” during their introduction. It’s one of the easier tweaks to envision when pitching to ownership or a front office.

    On brand, the first change that Lue mentioned in his press conference was playing with better pace.

    The Clippers were actually eighth in pace this season, and they ranked eighth in pace in the postseason (which was about league average given there are 16 teams in the playoffs). They were also eighth in points per 100 possessions off turnovers and 12th in fast-break points per 100 possessions.

    Essentially, they were in the upper third of the league in most transition and early offense categories. That’s good, but they can be even better.

    ...

    Improving ball movement
    One of the Clippers’ biggest weaknesses this season was their lack of a high-level, primary ballhandler.

    Leonard, Paul George, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams and Reggie Jackson ran the offense well, as the team finished No. 2 in offensive rating, but the Clippers lacked consistent penetration and a drive-and-kick game. Their best scorers (Leonard, Williams and George) love the midrange. Though those players are capable and relatively efficient difficult shot makers, it sometimes made the offense predictable and too reliant on tough, contested shots going in.

    They were middling in effective field-goal percentage in all five shot categories, so it’s not as if the Clippers’ isolation players were warranted in taking so many dribbles before shots. It’s just the style of play of Leonard, George, Williams, Montrezl Harrell and Marcus Morris Sr.

    At their worst, the Clippers played far too much isolation basketball. They were 28th in passes made and received this season, just ahead of the Rockets and Trail Blazers — heliocentric teams also reliant on two primary scorers (James Harden and Russell Westbrook for Houston, Damian Lillard and C.J. McCollum for Portland).

    That figure must improve next season. Passing just to pass is nonsensical, but a team as good as the Clippers will only improve offensively with more passing and movement, and less isolating and dribbling. Lue doesn’t necessarily need to call set plays every time down, but he needs to provide a more structured system with more screening, cutting and off-ball movement overall.

    ...

    Increasing 3-point volume
    It’s difficult to compare Lue’s personnel in Cleveland to his personnel in Los Angeles. The makeup of the rosters is different, as is the ideal playing style around the superstars.

    But the Clippers could stand to use an injection of modernity into their offensive system, particularly in the form of taking more 3-pointers. The Clippers were just 17th in 3-point attempts per 100 possessions this season, making their second-ranked offense even more impressive. Stars need spacing to operate, and having multiple floor spacers is a necessity in the modern NBA.

    ...

    The Clippers will likely seek a point guard upgrade on the trade market, though their options will be limited given their lack of draft capital and attractive assets. The free-agent market is also bleak. Regardless, the Clippers will likely have a different second-unit point guard next season — and possibly a different starting point guard — who can create more efficiently in the pick-and-roll and reliably get downhill.




"Regardless." The Clips need a real PG but have nothing to trade and the FA market is bleak. o-kaaaaaaaaay :roll:

As you can tell, I'm not much of a Jovan Buha fan lol, who wrote this exercise in belaboring the obvious. Pace. Ball movement. Attack the basket. Shoot 3s. Spacing.

Duh.

Barring the FO fleecing some idiot Billy King out there or trading half their roster for half of Houston's--not a bad idea at that--in 2021 the Clips will again trot out the Doc Rivers Show except without Doc.

At least it seems to be accepted among Clipper fans that we need an upgrade to our fundamental offensive structure. Another thing that comes to mind is that PG never learned how to make a pass... like ever, and Morris is best when he's only considering his defender and the basket. This means the installation of a motion-based offense will be easier said than done, as relying on each player to take part in a sizeable chunk of the team's total playmaking would be taking certain players out of their element. Normally, I'd say to drill these things until they become second nature, but good NBA players tend to be finished products in terms of skill set, making only incremental improvements in skills they already have. Sadly, the heads-down playstyle of 40% of our starting unit makes me think we need a floor general type addition rather than an overhaul in offensive structure.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#14 » by Goner » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:18 am

esqtvd wrote:
Goner wrote: Vets have a tendency of washing up here, as in once they get here they are fully washed. Happened to Chauncey and Pierce just in the last few years, and I'm not about to test Rondo's tank with such an uninspired signing.


Chauncey was terrific 'til he got hurt. Pierce ALMOST came in 2014-15 and then went on to a good season and great postseason with the Wizards. If Lob City had had the PP of 2015, or if Chauncey had made it through to the playoffs, I do believe we'd have had a real chance both years. We were one bullet short. The idea was right. The Whos were right, both championship players. The Whens were wrong.

So that said, I agree with you completely. Putting your eggs in a 35+-year-old basket is stupid. Rondo turns 35 in February, and hasn't played 30 mpg since he was 29.

Now, Ricky Rubio just turned 30. THAT would be fun... :wink:

That's right. I completely forgot about Chauncey tearing his achilles.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#15 » by esqtvd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:03 am

TheNewEra wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:would be highly concerned it'd be another paul piece type signing.

the other issue is if he's goofing off through the RS only to turn it up in the playoffs, that is kinda problematic, too. the team is likely going to go through a moderate overhaul and we need them to develop chemistry from the first game of the RS, not the first game of the playoffs.



Also if Beverley goes down and Rondo decides to mail it in could mess with seeding



Bev is toast with this team. He makes $13,333,333 this year and is NOT an NBA starter. He's only 6'0" and is NOT an NBA point guard. He's a Shooting Guard who can hit the 3 when he's WIDE OPEN, but cannot create his own shot. What SG in the NBA can't create his own shot????

And as we've seen, many NBAers think Pat and his ballhawking "defense" are selfish bullsh*t.

Pat Bev was a big part of the fraud that was last year's Clippers. If he IS a leader, it's not with a team with Kawhi and PG on it, who did not lead and refused to be led by him. Quake was right in calling him out.

I do think Pat could lead some other team that's more susceptible to...feeling. But not the Clippers with Kawhi and PG as the top 2 players. Been there, done that. Kawhi and PG scored ZERO points in the 4th quarter of Game 7. COMBINED. Whatever we need, Pat ain't it.

Pat needs to go.


Wouldn't be surprised for Doc to lobby for Pat to join the even more gutless Sixers. Embiid and Simmons are younger, and just might buy his bullsh*t. As a Sixers fan as well, those two are provably horrible together. Doc just moved from one dysfunctional family to another, but that's a different joke. He failed getting Kawhi and PG to lead the Clippers. Now he's stuck with the even more dysfunctional Simmons and Embiid.
_____________

TRADE: Beverley [$13M] for the clueless but far more talented Josh Richardson [$11M] plus salary ballast. I would do that, as a fan of both teams. I think the Sixers are closer to their conference finals than we are to ours.

And now the Sixers just added Daryl Morey.
:rofl2:


My two favorite teams are plunging further into absurdity. Pat Beverley is JUST what the gutless Sixers need and Josh Richardson is JUST the analytics statboy god that Daryl Morey built his sh*tty loser career on.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#16 » by esqtvd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:23 am

Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Goner wrote: Vets have a tendency of washing up here, as in once they get here they are fully washed. Happened to Chauncey and Pierce just in the last few years, and I'm not about to test Rondo's tank with such an uninspired signing.


Chauncey was terrific 'til he got hurt. Pierce ALMOST came in 2014-15 and then went on to a good season and great postseason with the Wizards. If Lob City had had the PP of 2015, or if Chauncey had made it through to the playoffs, I do believe we'd have had a real chance both years. We were one bullet short. The idea was right. The Whos were right, both championship players. The Whens were wrong.

So that said, I agree with you completely. Putting your eggs in a 35+-year-old basket is stupid. Rondo turns 35 in February, and hasn't played 30 mpg since he was 29.

Now, Ricky Rubio just turned 30. THAT would be fun... :wink:

That's right. I completely forgot about Chauncey tearing his achilles.



People forget the almosts. The Jeff Green trade [for which we gave up a 1st-round pick that amounted to nothing] is douched incessantly but he was brought here to be our 6'9" SMALL Forward next to Blake.

Finally our big front line with 6'10" DeAndre Jordan, 6'10" Blake Griffin, and 6'9" Jeff Green. [Jeff Green is STILL making a living in the NBA!]


And Blake immediately got injured. Green played PF the rest of the regular season. Blake limped back in time for the playoffs then got injured again. The DJ-BG-JG front line played together maybe a half-dozen times. Then Orlando signed Green away for twice what he was worth.


Chauncey played 20 games at the start of the 2011 season and Chris Paul was the happiest he has ever been on a basketball court, before or since. FINALLY a running mate, which Blake never was. Then Chauncey went down.

We were always thisclose to making magic. But in the end, in the NBA a Michael Jordan or a Kobe or a LeBron James storms down the lane and either gets the hoop or gets the foul call and that's how championships are won.

The NBA is theater, let's face it. All we real fans of the game can do is enjoy the basketball that's played in between the whistles.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#17 » by playaloc916 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:20 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Chauncey played 20 games at the start of the 2011 season and Chris Paul was the happiest he has ever been on a basketball court, before or since. FINALLY a running mate, which Blake never was. Then Chauncey went down.

We were always thisclose to making magic. But in the end, in the NBA a Michael Jordan or a Kobe or a LeBron James storms down the lane and either gets the hoop or gets the foul call and that's how championships are won.

The NBA is theater, let's face it. All we real fans of the game can do is enjoy the basketball that's played in between the whistles.

I remember this. I remember CP saying something like he was so happy and it was like having a big brother on the court playing with him... Who knows what would've happened if Billups hit that 3 instead of missing it and then abruptly reversing directions on that leg...
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#18 » by og15 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:21 pm

Basically one of the few options in terms of PG who knows how to run an offense and get the ball to players in the right spots, so sure, makes sense.

Just can't expect him to be some consistent high impact player or high level producer.
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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#19 » by esqtvd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:38 pm

og15 wrote:Basically one of the few options in terms of PG who knows how to run an offense and get the ball to players in the right spots, so sure, makes sense.

Just can't expect him to be some consistent high impact player or high level producer.


ugh

https://theathletic.com/2157589/2020/10/28/clippers-free-agents-point-guards/



    What the Clippers choose to do with their own free agents — Montrezl Harrell, Marcus Morris Sr., Reggie Jackson, Patrick Patterson and JaMychal Green (player option) — will determine whether they will be able to use the taxpayer mid-level exception (projected around $6 million annually) or the nontaxpayer mid-level exception (projected between $9 to $10 million annually).

    Either way, they’ll have limited means to go along with relatively limited options for improvement. This is not only a barren free-agent class, but also one that’s particularly bleak with championship-level rotation ball-handlers.

    As owner Steve Ballmer and president of basketball operations Lawrence Frank recently said at coach Tyronn Lue’s introduction, the team will have to find ways to improve around the margins.

    _____________________
    Unrealistic
    Players: Fred VanVleet

    VanVleet is likely to command $18-plus million as a mid-to-high-level starting point guard, which is far more money than the Clippers will be able to spend.

    _____________________
    Tier 1
    Players: Goran Dragic


    Realistically, he’s out of the Clippers’ price range. To sign him, they’d likely have to throw a three-year offer, which is risky considering his age (34) and his injury history.

    _____________________
    Tier 2
    Players: Rajon Rondo (player option with the Lakers), DJ Augustin, De’Anthony Melton, Kris Dunn (restricted free agent)

    If not for his 2020 playoff performance, Rondo would be part of Tier 3.

    Rondo is far from an ideal fit. His inability to shoot hurts his team’s offense, and he is a considerably worse player in the regular season. But among a group of middling backups, he’s one of the best options.

    ______________________
    Tier 3
    Players: Shabazz Napier, Chris Chiozza (restricted), Jordan McLaughlin (restricted), Jeff Teague

    Teague is passable as a backup, but he’s clearly no longer the same caliber of passer or playmaker that he was even a couple of years ago, and he has become somewhat of a glaring defensive liability.

    _____________________
    Tier 4
    Players: Jevon Carter (restricted), Cameron Payne (team option), Trey Burke, Michael Carter-Williams, Tyler Johnson, Brad Wanamaker (restricted)

    This is where there is a steep drop-off in the point guard market. Each of these players has the potential to be a respectable backup point guard, but all come with flaws.

    ______________________
    Stay away
    Players: Isaiah Thomas, Emmanuel Mudiay

    The Clippers already passed on Thomas after acquiring him at the 2020 trade deadline. He’s likely not a rotation player at this point, and his shooting inefficiency, mixed with his Lilliputian size, make him a liability on both ends.

    Mudiay has the allure of a former top-10 pick but has yet to prove to be a plus player on either end of the floor. He’s probably fine as a back-end roster gamble, but he’s not as a reliable rotation option yet.

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Re: Playoff Rondo Main Priority 

Post#20 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:57 pm

Rondo was the third best player on the Lakers and the LA doesn’t win the title without him.

Clippers get a Rondo and they make the western conference Finals

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