ImageImageImageImageImage

Point Guard

Moderators: QRich3, og15, TrueLAfan

User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,581
And1: 1,329
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Point Guard 

Post#41 » by esqtvd » Tue Dec 1, 2020 11:37 pm

TheNewEra wrote:
Forte IV wrote:I honestly think Kennard should start at PG and have Pat come off the bench


That’s a pretty big hit defensively



FYI--per 36 minutes [2020]

Beverley: 4.9 assists/1.8 TOs/38.8% 3-pt
Kennard: 4.5 assists/1.7 TOs/39.9% 3-pt
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
James2000
Sophomore
Posts: 141
And1: 24
Joined: Sep 18, 2020

Re: Point Guard 

Post#42 » by James2000 » Tue Dec 1, 2020 11:46 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
James2000 wrote:I wonder about Terrence mann and if he would be our pg in the future. I think that he might be in the process of developing


I like T-Mann a lot but he's already 24. When a rookie can't make the team as at least the 15th man, you're just not talking starter material. You're in Yogi Ferrell territory, who went undrafted but still made it to the NBA by age 23 and has hung around since as a marginal rotation player.

I think T-Mann can manage that much because he has an NBA body [6'5" next to Yogis 6'], but he shot under 33% on 3s and his assist-to-TO ratio was only about 2-1--and that was only in G-League.

I'd love to see T-Mann crack the back of the rotation as a combo guard but I don't think these win-or-else Clippers can afford to invest any serious PG PT in him. The Clippers gave him a guaranteed contract because it looked like we were in rebuild mode but that's all over now. He showed more aptitude at the point than Shamet did but neither played much PG in college and it showed.

I mean, Shai played only one year of college but by age 20 he was already starting in the NBA. And I dunno if even he is cut out for PG--he seems more like a 2.


Yeah unfortunately this is a pretty good take on Terence Mann. The only thing I'll say in his favor is that he is a legitimate NBA PG prospect at 6'6" which has value or at least potential. But that's why he may be able to stick around in the NBA at all, not what will make him an All-Star or anything. He was a good 2nd round find for us.


To be honest with you, I think that he could be an all star. I think that he is a late bloomer. With us having coaches develop these young players, especially Chauncey Billups working with him directly, I would say that he has a great chance to be a great player. I would compare him to kyle Lowery. Remember, he wasn't the great player that he was in Toronto. He was moved around alot like from the Grizzlies, and etc. It takes time for players to mature. I mean if he put in the hard work, he will be good.
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,581
And1: 1,329
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Point Guard 

Post#43 » by esqtvd » Tue Dec 1, 2020 11:55 pm

James2000 wrote:
madmaxmedia wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
I like T-Mann a lot but he's already 24. When a rookie can't make the team as at least the 15th man, you're just not talking starter material. You're in Yogi Ferrell territory, who went undrafted but still made it to the NBA by age 23 and has hung around since as a marginal rotation player.

I think T-Mann can manage that much because he has an NBA body [6'5" next to Yogis 6'], but he shot under 33% on 3s and his assist-to-TO ratio was only about 2-1--and that was only in G-League.

I'd love to see T-Mann crack the back of the rotation as a combo guard but I don't think these win-or-else Clippers can afford to invest any serious PG PT in him. The Clippers gave him a guaranteed contract because it looked like we were in rebuild mode but that's all over now. He showed more aptitude at the point than Shamet did but neither played much PG in college and it showed.

I mean, Shai played only one year of college but by age 20 he was already starting in the NBA. And I dunno if even he is cut out for PG--he seems more like a 2.


Yeah unfortunately this is a pretty good take on Terence Mann. The only thing I'll say in his favor is that he is a legitimate NBA PG prospect at 6'6" which has value or at least potential. But that's why he may be able to stick around in the NBA at all, not what will make him an All-Star or anything. He was a good 2nd round find for us.


To be honest with you, I think that he could be an all star. I think that he is a late bloomer. With us having coaches develop these young players, especially Chauncey Billups working with him directly, I would say that he has a great chance to be a great player. I would compare him to kyle Lowery. Remember, he wasn't the great player that he was in Toronto. He was moved around alot like from the Grizzlies, and etc. It takes time for players to mature. I mean if he put in the hard work, he will be good.



I hope you're right, but you is what you is. Kyle Lowry was a late bloomer as a starter but he was still getting 20 mpg by age 21.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
TheNewEra
RealGM
Posts: 23,367
And1: 7,263
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Location: Lob City
       

Re: Point Guard 

Post#44 » by TheNewEra » Wed Dec 2, 2020 4:14 am

Clippers seem to have a bunch of guards ready for camp invites
User avatar
madmaxmedia
General Manager
Posts: 8,371
And1: 3,781
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Location: SoCal

Re: Point Guard 

Post#45 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Dec 2, 2020 5:23 pm

esqtvd wrote:
James2000 wrote:
madmaxmedia wrote:
Yeah unfortunately this is a pretty good take on Terence Mann. The only thing I'll say in his favor is that he is a legitimate NBA PG prospect at 6'6" which has value or at least potential. But that's why he may be able to stick around in the NBA at all, not what will make him an All-Star or anything. He was a good 2nd round find for us.


To be honest with you, I think that he could be an all star. I think that he is a late bloomer. With us having coaches develop these young players, especially Chauncey Billups working with him directly, I would say that he has a great chance to be a great player. I would compare him to kyle Lowery. Remember, he wasn't the great player that he was in Toronto. He was moved around alot like from the Grizzlies, and etc. It takes time for players to mature. I mean if he put in the hard work, he will be good.



I hope you're right, but you is what you is. Kyle Lowry was a late bloomer as a starter but he was still getting 20 mpg by age 21.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html


I would say by end of this year we'll have a pretty solid idea of who Terence Mann can be as an NBA player. If he took a significant jump this season in terms of minutes and production, then we could probably hope for some more improvement beyond that. OTOH if he is basically a minutes filler type, I think it would be unrealistic to expect him to ever be more than a role player (which would actually be great for where we drafted him.)

Too bad there's no summer league this year, although he doesn't need it nearly as much as our rookies.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 36,838
And1: 16,561
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Point Guard 

Post#46 » by og15 » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:12 am

esqtvd wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
Forte IV wrote:I honestly think Kennard should start at PG and have Pat come off the bench


That’s a pretty big hit defensively



FYI--per 36 minutes [2020]

Beverley: 4.9 assists/1.8 TOs/38.8% 3-pt
Kennard: 4.5 assists/1.7 TOs/39.9% 3-pt

This bodes very well for Kennard since he wasn't actually the PG on his team. Matching the assist rate of a starting PG as a wing is very good. Kennard starting at PG doesn't make sense to be defensively though.
TheNewEra
RealGM
Posts: 23,367
And1: 7,263
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Location: Lob City
       

Re: Point Guard 

Post#47 » by TheNewEra » Thu Dec 3, 2020 1:56 am

Eager to see what happens with Lou Will on media day now.
User avatar
PerkinsFor3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,540
And1: 1,703
Joined: Nov 10, 2004
Location: https://perkinsfor3.wordpress.com/
Contact:

Re: Point Guard 

Post#48 » by PerkinsFor3 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:55 am

Man, Ky Bowman is a really good signing and I expected more teams to jump on him. He can pass, he can shoot/score (maybe up his selection a bit) and he's an underrated man to man defender. He's a bit undersized, but makes up for it with some grit. Needs to take better care of the ball, but should have a bit more space to operate with Kawhi and PG on the floor. Hard to polay if LouWill is on the court as well, though.
Follow me on Twitter - https://twitter.com/perkinsfor3.
Wammy Giveaway
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,506
And1: 530
Joined: Jul 30, 2013
Contact:

Welp, No Point Guard Then 

Post#49 » by Wammy Giveaway » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:10 pm

Tyronn Lue confirms it:

(from Los Angeles Times)

LZ Granderson wrote:I asked Lue why the team didn’t go after a more traditional point guard to help organize them into set plays to offset the shooting struggles of Leonard and George.

He said they don’t need one.

“When you have great players, you don’t necessarily need a traditional point guard,” he said. “We need Patrick Beverly’s energy and toughness; it’s infectious. I love what he does for his team. You get a guy wth zero points and zero shots and he’s happy because the team won. You can’t find those guys.”

Lue explained that he used multiple guys to launch the offense when he was with the Cavaliers. He is confident Leonard and George, as well as Beverly, will be able to do the same. It’s more important, he said, that there is communication on the court and accountability off it. The latter has been a popular subject this offseason, as reports circulated of preferential treatment for the team’s star players last season.
User avatar
Quake Griffin
RealGM
Posts: 14,661
And1: 4,205
Joined: Jul 06, 2012
     

Re: Point Guard 

Post#50 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:26 pm

Oh boy.

Still buying into the ra ra from Pat Bev? Still acting like his "energy" means anything.

-__-
“I’ve always felt that drafting is the life blood of any organization.” - Jerome Alan West.
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,581
And1: 1,329
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Point Guard 

Post#51 » by esqtvd » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:28 am

PerkinsFor3 wrote:Man, Ky Bowman is a really good signing and I expected more teams to jump on him. He can pass, he can shoot/score (maybe up his selection a bit) and he's an underrated man to man defender. He's a bit undersized, but makes up for it with some grit. Needs to take better care of the ball, but should have a bit more space to operate with Kawhi and PG on the floor. Hard to polay if LouWill is on the court as well, though.


Why did GSW dump Bowman?
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
User avatar
PerkinsFor3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,540
And1: 1,703
Joined: Nov 10, 2004
Location: https://perkinsfor3.wordpress.com/
Contact:

Re: Point Guard 

Post#52 » by PerkinsFor3 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:01 am

Money
Follow me on Twitter - https://twitter.com/perkinsfor3.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 36,838
And1: 16,561
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Point Guard 

Post#53 » by og15 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:01 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Oh boy.

Still buying into the ra ra from Pat Bev? Still acting like his "energy" means anything.

-__-

The energy is good, the problem is that Beverley's energy also includes his annoying antics, overagrressive hero defense, bad fouls, technical fouls, riling up the opposition.

It's not even so much about the playmaking skills of a PG, even if the Clippers just have a smart and saavy game manager PG like a George Hill. Now, maybe Kennard or Batum can fill that role, but they can't play the PG position on defense.

Beverley is neither much of a playmaker at PG, nor is he a high IQ game manager type ball handler.

This simply means that Lue and the coaching staff will need to have better secodary and third actions for flow and movement in the offense that aren't simply telling the players, "move the ball".
Vae Victus
Analyst
Posts: 3,507
And1: 1,452
Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Re: Point Guard 

Post#54 » by Vae Victus » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:19 pm

Combo guards with some playmaking would be a help at this time as well. PatBev is truly a limited player, and its annoying how he cashed out perfectly at the right time only to regress back to what he always was. An oft injured, midget, with limited game, and a bigass mouth. Kennard might just work out as a spot PG, but with his knees, i dont want him chasing around super quick players if i can help it.
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 36,838
And1: 16,561
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Point Guard 

Post#55 » by og15 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:41 am

Vae Victus wrote:Combo guards with some playmaking would be a help at this time as well. PatBev is truly a limited player, and its annoying how he cashed out perfectly at the right time only to regress back to what he always was. An oft injured, midget, with limited game, and a bigass mouth. Kennard might just work out as a spot PG, but with his knees, i dont want him chasing around super quick players if i can help it.

The contract was okay, just a bit over MLE, a little overpay, but nothing wild. I'm actually still confused as to why many Clippers fans expected more from him. I discussed with other Clippers fans that he's an injury prone player, his defense is good in spurts, but CP was an overall higher impact defensive player, and he's not a real PG.

So I don't understand why people expected him to be more than that. He's a high energy guard who is a decent ball handler, decent passer, good spot up shooter, generally above average to good defensive player, and his actual best skill as a guard is rebounding for a guard, mainly offensive rebounding, and his spot up shooting, both useful skills, certainly. He has no pull-up game, he's not a slasher, so offensively, there's only so much he can do as an initiator. He's like the better version of Delladova, though Delladova is probably a better passer.
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,581
And1: 1,329
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: Point Guard 

Post#56 » by esqtvd » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:33 am

og15 wrote:
Vae Victus wrote:Combo guards with some playmaking would be a help at this time as well. PatBev is truly a limited player, and its annoying how he cashed out perfectly at the right time only to regress back to what he always was. An oft injured, midget, with limited game, and a bigass mouth. Kennard might just work out as a spot PG, but with his knees, i dont want him chasing around super quick players if i can help it.

The contract was okay, just a bit over MLE, a little overpay, but nothing wild. I'm actually still confused as to why many Clippers fans expected more from him. I discussed with other Clippers fans that he's an injury prone player, his defense is good in spurts, but CP was an overall higher impact defensive player, and he's not a real PG.

So I don't understand why people expected him to be more than that. He's a high energy guard who is a decent ball handler, decent passer, good spot up shooter, generally above average to good defensive player, and his actual best skill as a guard is rebounding for a guard, mainly offensive rebounding, and his spot up shooting, both useful skills, certainly. He has no pull-up game, he's not a slasher, so offensively, there's only so much he can do as an initiator. He's like the better version of Delladova, though Delladova is probably a better passer.



Pat is getting $13-14 million per year; the MLE is only $9.2M, so that's half again as much.

I think the disappointment is that his 2018-19 playoffs were statistically fabulous and we thought he had finally found himself as an NBA starter--

32 mpg
9.8 ppg
42.8% FGs
43.3% 3-pt
8.0 rpg
4.7 apg


He was nowhere near any of that in 2019-20. In fact, in the playoffs he averaged 6.7 fouls per 36 minutes! :o He couldn't even stay on the floor. :(
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
og15
Forum Mod - Clippers
Forum Mod - Clippers
Posts: 36,838
And1: 16,561
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Location: NBA Fan
 

Re: Point Guard 

Post#57 » by og15 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:09 am

Sure, those are good role player numbers, but it was just a 6 game and one series sample size. Games 1-4, he averaged 7.8 ppg / 5.0 rpg/ 4.3 apg while shooting 36% FG / 41% 3PT.

Game 5 he had 17/14/4 on 46.2% FG(6/13) / 45.5% 3PT (5/11) shooting and game 6 he had 11/14/7 on 66.7% FG (4/6) / 50% 3PT (1/2) shooting.

Bev is good for what he is, secondary ball handler, hit his three's, give energy on defense, grab rebounds, foul a good amount (averages 4.5 fouls/36 for his playoff career), get some technical fouls. I think expecting more from him than that is what causes disappointment.
nickhx2
Head Coach
Posts: 7,460
And1: 3,618
Joined: Feb 13, 2014

Re: Point Guard 

Post#58 » by nickhx2 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:06 am

i think anyone expecting more from him than what he's capable of has a poor understanding of his abilities and limitations.
Vae Victus
Analyst
Posts: 3,507
And1: 1,452
Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Re: Point Guard 

Post#59 » by Vae Victus » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:07 am

og15 wrote:Sure, those are good role player numbers, but it was just a 6 game and one series sample size. Games 1-4, he averaged 7.8 ppg / 5.0 rpg/ 4.3 apg while shooting 36% FG / 41% 3PT.

Game 5 he had 17/14/4 on 46.2% FG(6/13) / 45.5% 3PT (5/11) shooting and game 6 he had 11/14/7 on 66.7% FG (4/6) / 50% 3PT (1/2) shooting.

Bev is good for what he is, secondary ball handler, hit his three's, give energy on defense, grab rebounds, foul a good amount (averages 4.5 fouls/36 for his playoff career), get some technical fouls. I think expecting more from him than that is what causes disappointment.


Which is why he’s more of a 6-8 mil a year role player instead of a 12-14 mil one.

Hopefully he has a rebound year. Clips need production out of their PG spot badly this year.
User avatar
Quake Griffin
RealGM
Posts: 14,661
And1: 4,205
Joined: Jul 06, 2012
     

Re: Point Guard 

Post#60 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:18 pm

He's the most vocal person on the team and given our roster, that makes him our spiritual leader. He is not poised enough or mentally tough enough to be our leader. He needs to be an underdog and counted out so he feels like there is some kind of fight. As you can see, when he is challenged with not being the underdog and the seat gets a little hot, he plays like a punk and turns into an immature baby.

I said this from DAY ONE. I've never seen a team build a champion with some small stupid loud mouth mediocre "point guard" as its spiritual leader. I can't think of the champion that was built like this.

Mentally tough players can be underdog and be poised when the favorite.

After his performance last year, I'm done. Was it Game 2 that we just tricked off to the Nuggets for no good reason at all? Was that the one where we were probably gonna lose but were still in it and he decided for the rest of the team that we had lost and he was gonna get techs?


Yeah, nah. Kinda unforgiveable to me. I'd deal him and I'd be doing everything to get a new PG in here.

Lol. Energy. foh.


Read on Twitter
?lang=en

Looks like its tons of more soft **** to me, only with annoying tactics, 1st team all defense finger points to the crowd, and swearing we are the best team in LA when we weren't.
“I’ve always felt that drafting is the life blood of any organization.” - Jerome Alan West.

Return to Los Angeles Clippers