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Point Guard

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Re: Montrez Harrell non-appreciation thread 

Post#401 » by Kelphus » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:49 pm

Title changed. Now with Rondo we are covered on the Point Guard anyway, right?
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#402 » by RingColluder » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:51 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Captain Ballmer wrote:
This is ridiculous take. :crazy: Where was that energy defensive player against Dallas or Denver series last playoffs? He **** the bed miserably. When you fail on your job that bad, you get fired in corporate world. The FO fired him with not offering contract and that was the most successful decision they had in the summer or winter whatever.


He was dealing with personal issues. You're ridiculous if you don't realize how much Trez would benefit us this year. We have no backup bigman after Zu!!! 9 million a year! that's nothing.

For the millionth time, it wasn't just personal issues. He has limitations both physically and as part of his skillset as a player that prevent him from being very effective in the playoffs. You really need to stop obsessing over a player who doesn't address any of this roster's deficiencies and who's only productive against backups in the regular season.


His play fell off tremendously during the bubble after he dealt with personal issues, that's not random or coincidental. I'm not obsessing at all, it seems people like you and others continue to bash Montrez for absolutely no reason other than to say, "I was right" regarding Zu.

The bottom line is we'd be a much stronger team with Monterz on this team than not. Not even up for debate.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#403 » by Kelphus » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:55 pm

I agree completely, Ring Colluder.

Harrell has a very useful role. Sure, can't shoot or hit free throws, but hustle and muscle are valuable.

Let's go back a generation and a half - why was Kurt Rambus so valuable for the fLakers? Because of his elegant dribbling?

It's over, why keep arguing about it, but I think bottom line is he was not retained because of his horrible playoff performance, and he never really got in the game after he returned from his extended bereavement time off.

I don't wish him ill... except that he now is a fLaker.
[I am struggling with Rondo but telling myself the fLaker stank wore off during his months in the ATL.]
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#404 » by TheNewEra » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:14 pm

Team could really benefit from a strong PG prospect in the next year or so
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#405 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:12 pm

Last night's game is a perfect illustration of why we're better without me-first players like Trez and Lou. We finally seem to have a roster that complements our star players instead of a couple guys who are just trying to score their usual 18 points without providing any defense or playmaking.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#406 » by Clemenza » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:01 pm

TheNewEra wrote:Team could really benefit from a strong PG prospect in the next year or so

We do have our first round pick this year so we'll see. Jay Scrubb is also in the wings
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#407 » by TucsonClip » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:00 pm

TucsonClip wrote:
og15 wrote:Don’t care for this move (it’s fine, it fills a need, but seems like it should have been straight up), hopefully Rondo can produce and doesn’t end up on the long list of players Clippers acquired just when they were getting ready to suck.

Not sure why the Clippers gave up picks to take on a longer contract...


Finally, regarding paying two seconds for his contract to be on the books next year. I am not sure he is on the roster next season past the deadline. However, I do think an underrated move was adding his salary in order to aggregate in trades this summer and up to next deadline. Could we have re-signed Lou on a 1 year deal? Possibly. But I dont think anyone is signing and trading for Lou. So Rondo is a salary aggregation piece, especially this summer and during the draft where we have a 1st to move, by the way.


Yesterday, Hollinger chimed in on this exact point I made when the Rondo trade was announced:

John Hollinger wrote:Remember, Lou Williams had an expiring deal and was unlikely to play along with a sign-and-trade this summer. Additionally, the Clippers would be prevented from executing inbound sign-and-trades because they’ll be above the hard cap.

So how do they get new players? By trading existing contracts and draft equity.

Enter Rondo. His contract lets the Clippers walk into the 2021 draft – one of the few in which the Clippers will actually have their own pick – and start swinging. Along with the pick, Rondo can be traded alone for up to $10.3 million in returning salary, or combined with other minimums (Daniel Oturu or Terance Mann, for example) to bring back a player with a salary in the mid-teens. That acquisition, in turn, could allow the Clippers to restock and make another run next year. (All this obviously assumes Kawhi Leonard re-signs).

Yes, Rondo’s cap number also crushes their chances of using the full mid-level exception, because the Clippers are now over next year’s hard cap line, but that was going to be the case anyway if Serge Ibaka returns. (Ibaka has a player option for $9.7 million, but could also re-up for as much as $11.7 million as a non-Bird free agent).


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Re: Point Guard 

Post#408 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:12 pm

The interesting thing about the Stepien rule is that we can't trade this year's 1st rounder before the draft, but we can agree to a draft day trade where we pick a guy for another team and make a trade with that team. So that along with the Rondo contract may be useful to us if necessary. I believe we own our 1st rounder this year (there's a swap thing with NYK but chances seems remote to impossible.)

The ideal situation is that we love Rondo in a limited role and want him back, and there's a decent PG prospect at our draft spot. He doesn't have to be an immediate contributor prospect IMO. We can platoon Beverly/Rondo/Jackson for another year just fine IMO.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#409 » by RingColluder » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:48 pm

From Frank in an interview after the deadline:

"WE SAW LUKE, JUST HIS ABILITY TO DO SOME SECONDARY PLAYMAKING"

--
The man has lost his mind. He said the same thing pre season,

There's not even a 1% skill leave of Kennard as a playmaker whatsoever and the reason why we are still struggling with PG (till the Rondo trade).

Inconsistent shooter which is fine, but the contract continues to be a problem.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#410 » by Roscoe Sheed » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:56 pm

RingColluder wrote:From Frank in an interview after the deadline:

"WE SAW LUKE, JUST HIS ABILITY TO DO SOME SECONDARY PLAYMAKING"

--
The man has lost his mind. He said the same thing pre season,

There's not even a 1% skill leave of Kennard as a playmaker whatsoever and the reason why we are still struggling with PG (till the Rondo trade).

Inconsistent shooter which is fine, but the contract continues to be a problem.

I can understand the skepticism about his playmaking, but he is not an inconsistent shooter. Sure, he won't make everything shot he takes, but he is an elite shooter. If the Heat can manage to find 30 minutes a game for Duncan Robinson, the Clippers can find minutes for Kennard- I think he is as good of a shooter as Robinson and only a slightly worse defender.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#411 » by RingColluder » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:42 pm

Roscoe Sheed wrote:
RingColluder wrote:From Frank in an interview after the deadline:

"WE SAW LUKE, JUST HIS ABILITY TO DO SOME SECONDARY PLAYMAKING"

--
The man has lost his mind. He said the same thing pre season,

There's not even a 1% skill leave of Kennard as a playmaker whatsoever and the reason why we are still struggling with PG (till the Rondo trade).

Inconsistent shooter which is fine, but the contract continues to be a problem.

I can understand the skepticism about his playmaking, but he is not an inconsistent shooter. Sure, he won't make everything shot he takes, but he is an elite shooter. If the Heat can manage to find 30 minutes a game for Duncan Robinson, the Clippers can find minutes for Kennard- I think he is as good of a shooter as Robinson and only a slightly worse defender.


It's been 2 games, I need to see more. But he definitely has a nice ceiling, Im just concerned with the floor particularly in the playoffs.


He looked awful in the beginning of the season particularly when he's not looking to score
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#412 » by esqtvd » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:33 am

RingColluder wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:
RingColluder wrote:From Frank in an interview after the deadline:

"WE SAW LUKE, JUST HIS ABILITY TO DO SOME SECONDARY PLAYMAKING"

--
The man has lost his mind. He said the same thing pre season,

There's not even a 1% skill leave of Kennard as a playmaker whatsoever and the reason why we are still struggling with PG (till the Rondo trade).

Inconsistent shooter which is fine, but the contract continues to be a problem.

I can understand the skepticism about his playmaking, but he is not an inconsistent shooter. Sure, he won't make everything shot he takes, but he is an elite shooter. If the Heat can manage to find 30 minutes a game for Duncan Robinson, the Clippers can find minutes for Kennard- I think he is as good of a shooter as Robinson and only a slightly worse defender.


It's been 2 games, I need to see more. But he definitely has a nice ceiling, Im just concerned with the floor particularly in the playoffs.


He looked awful in the beginning of the season particularly when he's not looking to score



Shamet looked like a lock there for awhile too. Nobody's game planning for Mann or Kennard yet, so there's a long road ahead for each of them still. Right now they're slipping through the cracks.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#413 » by Roscoe Sheed » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:58 am

What I meant was Kennard is definitely a knock down shooter- he may have other flaws but perimeter shooting isn’t one
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#414 » by RingColluder » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:23 am

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:I can understand the skepticism about his playmaking, but he is not an inconsistent shooter. Sure, he won't make everything shot he takes, but he is an elite shooter. If the Heat can manage to find 30 minutes a game for Duncan Robinson, the Clippers can find minutes for Kennard- I think he is as good of a shooter as Robinson and only a slightly worse defender.


It's been 2 games, I need to see more. But he definitely has a nice ceiling, Im just concerned with the floor particularly in the playoffs.


He looked awful in the beginning of the season particularly when he's not looking to score



Shamet looked like a lock there for awhile too. Nobody's game planning for Mann or Kennard yet, so there's a long road ahead for each of them still. Right now they're slipping through the cracks.


Mann does so much other than just his offense he should always get minutes.

Unless Luke's shot is falling he is a net negative on the court. 0 defense and 0 playmaking despite what delusional Frank says
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#415 » by TucsonClip » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:57 am

Luke has absolutely showed playmaking ability over the course of his career... Until he got here. He doesn't look comfortable, but the skillset is there. Even running some second side action, ala JJ Redick, opens the floor.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#416 » by esqtvd » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:32 pm

soon

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Re: Point Guard 

Post#417 » by og15 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 3:00 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:What I meant was Kennard is definitely a knock down shooter- he may have other flaws but perimeter shooting isn’t one

For sure, Luke shoots 47% from 3PT, which is 4th in the NBA and hits 40% or higher 61% of his games where he's attempted a three as a Clipper. That's only "inconsistent" (in the most loose sense of the word) if we're comparing him to Joe Harris who is 3rd in the league at 48.5% and hits 40% or higher 67% of the time.

Of course that's a bit of an illiogical take in that case as calling a player who is in the 95th percentile of consistency inconsistent would require a new word for other players who are actually inconsistent.

Luke's playmaking just hasn't come through on this squad though. We've gotten some flashes here and there, but nothing consistent in that aspect with him still looking unsure about attacking vs not, etc.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#418 » by playaloc916 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 5:26 am

esqtvd wrote:soon

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First there was Hoodie Melo, now there is Hoodie Rondo... LFG!!!
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#419 » by esqtvd » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:39 am

og15 wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:What I meant was Kennard is definitely a knock down shooter- he may have other flaws but perimeter shooting isn’t one

For sure, Luke shoots 47% from 3PT, which is 4th in the NBA and hits 40% or higher 61% of his games where he's attempted a three as a Clipper. That's only "inconsistent" (in the most loose sense of the word) if we're comparing him to Joe Harris who is 3rd in the league at 48.5% and hits 40% or higher 67% of the time.

Of course that's a bit of an illiogical take in that case as calling a player who is in the 95th percentile of consistency inconsistent would require a new word for other players who are actually inconsistent.

Luke's playmaking just hasn't come through on this squad though. We've gotten some flashes here and there, but nothing consistent in that aspect with him still looking unsure about attacking vs not, etc.



Yes. Percentages mean little or nothing. An offensive player who doesn't add much else who needs to be spoonfed his shots BETTER hit his freebies.

Bev brings manic D, amazing rebounds, some assists and still hits his freebies at 40%. Let's not take him for granted.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#420 » by og15 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 1:17 pm

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:What I meant was Kennard is definitely a knock down shooter- he may have other flaws but perimeter shooting isn’t one

For sure, Luke shoots 47% from 3PT, which is 4th in the NBA and hits 40% or higher 61% of his games where he's attempted a three as a Clipper. That's only "inconsistent" (in the most loose sense of the word) if we're comparing him to Joe Harris who is 3rd in the league at 48.5% and hits 40% or higher 67% of the time.

Of course that's a bit of an illiogical take in that case as calling a player who is in the 95th percentile of consistency inconsistent would require a new word for other players who are actually inconsistent.

Luke's playmaking just hasn't come through on this squad though. We've gotten some flashes here and there, but nothing consistent in that aspect with him still looking unsure about attacking vs not, etc.



Yes. Percentages mean little or nothing. An offensive player who doesn't add much else who needs to be spoonfed his shots BETTER hit his freebies.

Bev brings manic D, amazing rebounds, some assists and still hits his freebies at 40%. Let's not take him for granted.

Percentages are relevant based on what is being discussed. If the question is whether Luke Kennard is a consistent shooter, his percentages are extremely relevant, it's basically the definition for that conversation. If you're asking other questions, well they are other questions.

Claiming Kennard is not a consistent shooter as someone did because he sucks at other areas is mixing up conversations. Being a consistent shooter doesn't mean being a consistent shot creator defender, impact player or anything else, it is a singular discussion point.

Players who are spoonfed their shots don't shoot as well as Kennard has shot. That's the whole point. If you got a random sample of 20 guys in the league and as them the exact same shots Kennard gets, you'd have a chance of maybe 1 or at best 2 shooting as well and as consistently. There are many players in similar stand and wait for other guys to create open shots roles around the league, and only 3 guys are hitting a higher percentage, why? Because it's still difficult at the NBA level to hit that high a percentage against NBA level close-outs.

Beverley is a great addition to a team rotation, his issue is just his health.

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