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Point Guard

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og15
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#61 » by og15 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:44 pm

Vae Victus wrote:
og15 wrote:Sure, those are good role player numbers, but it was just a 6 game and one series sample size. Games 1-4, he averaged 7.8 ppg / 5.0 rpg/ 4.3 apg while shooting 36% FG / 41% 3PT.

Game 5 he had 17/14/4 on 46.2% FG(6/13) / 45.5% 3PT (5/11) shooting and game 6 he had 11/14/7 on 66.7% FG (4/6) / 50% 3PT (1/2) shooting.

Bev is good for what he is, secondary ball handler, hit his three's, give energy on defense, grab rebounds, foul a good amount (averages 4.5 fouls/36 for his playoff career), get some technical fouls. I think expecting more from him than that is what causes disappointment.


Which is why he’s more of a 6-8 mil a year role player instead of a 12-14 mil one.

Hopefully he has a rebound year. Clips need production out of their PG spot badly this year.

I think right in between that, the 9-10 million range is where he should have landed, that's MLE range, and that IS what he should have gotten, but yes, Clippers gave him more. Beverley is unlikely to change, the things that make him annoying (loud mouth, erratic, etc) are unlikely to go away, so I don't doubt he can have a solid season, but I'm not going to expect him to be less annoying.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#62 » by Roscoe Sheed » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:09 pm

Obviously a trade for a good true point guard would help. If I'm dreaming I'd say Kyle Lowry somehow.

However, I think it is more likely they will have to make do with what they've got. Kawhi, PG, Kennard, and Batum are all good passers. If I were Lue, I'd also ask Lou Williams to be more of a facilitator. He is definitely capable of setting up other guys if he puts his mind to it.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#63 » by og15 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:19 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:He's the most vocal person on the team and given our roster, that makes him our spiritual leader. He is not poised enough or mentally tough enough to be our leader. He needs to be an underdog and counted out so he feels like there is some kind of fight. As you can see, when he is challenged with not being the underdog and the seat gets a little hot, he plays like a punk and turns into an immature baby.

I said this from DAY ONE. I've never seen a team build a champion with some small stupid loud mouth mediocre "point guard" as its spiritual leader. I can't think of the champion that was built like this.

Mentally tough players can be underdog and be poised when the favorite.

After his performance last year, I'm done. Was it Game 2 that we just tricked off to the Nuggets for no good reason at all? Was that the one where we were probably gonna lose but were still in it and he decided for the rest of the team that we had lost and he was gonna get techs?


Yeah, nah. Kinda unforgiveable to me. I'd deal him and I'd be doing everything to get a new PG in here.

Lol. Energy. foh.


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Looks like its tons of more soft **** to me, only with annoying tactics, 1st team all defense finger points to the crowd, and swearing we are the best team in LA when we weren't.

Oh, I totally understand where you are coming from, and I remember the moment you are referring to from game 2, even though it was unlikely to come back, down 8 with one minute left, he got two techs and got ejected.

I'm trying to refresh my memory, Matt Barnes was a high antics role player too (though Chris Paul was a vocal leader/best player type as opposed to a Kawhi situation, and even DJ became more vocal later), but looking back now, why do I not feel like he was as troublesome as Beverley? Barnes talked a bit, but seems like Beverley talks A LOT.

Anyways, sure, if a better version of Matthew Dellavedova is trash talking and getting technical fouls and doing all these antics, etc I certainly understand how that is annoying, because I don't care for his persona either.

I guess again the difference is that I didn't expect better from Beverley, which is why I am less disappointed than others might be.


Roscoe Sheed wrote:Obviously a trade for a good true point guard would help. If I'm dreaming I'd say Kyle Lowry somehow.

However, I think it is more likely they will have to make do with what they've got. Kawhi, PG, Kennard, and Batum are all good passers. If I were Lue, I'd also ask Lou Williams to be more of a facilitator. He is definitely capable of setting up other guys if he puts his mind to it.
Lou did about as good a job as we can expect from him as a passer last season, so I already give him props for that. On the other hand, I don't think it is reasonable to expect a player like him at 34 years old to become a more saavy playmaker. I think he's done well enough taking more responsiblity in that area.

Of course I don't think we should need to. If the system is set up properly, and Batum is actually solid, the bench now has four guys (Williams, Batum, Kennard, Jackson) who are capable of handling, running pick and roll, breaking down the defense and making good passes. Last season it was Williams for the majority of the season, until Jackson (who everyone forgets and understandably so) came on board. Now, Jackson is not the highest IQ guy or the best at ball protection, etc, so I'm not going to have him handling in crunch time or anything, but he is capable of creating.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#64 » by esqtvd » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:01 pm

og15 wrote:

Roscoe Sheed wrote:Obviously a trade for a good true point guard would help. If I'm dreaming I'd say Kyle Lowry somehow.

However, I think it is more likely they will have to make do with what they've got. Kawhi, PG, Kennard, and Batum are all good passers. If I were Lue, I'd also ask Lou Williams to be more of a facilitator. He is definitely capable of setting up other guys if he puts his mind to it.
Lou did about as good a job as we can expect from him as a passer last season, so I already give him props for that. On the other hand, I don't think it is reasonable to expect a player like him at 34 years old to become a more saavy playmaker. I think he's done well enough taking more responsiblity in that area.

Of course I don't think we should need to. If the system is set up properly, and Batum is actually solid, the bench now has four guys (Williams, Batum, Kennard, Jackson) who are capable of handling, running pick and roll, breaking down the defense and making good passes. Last season it was Williams for the majority of the season, until Jackson (who everyone forgets and understandably so) came on board. Now, Jackson is not the highest IQ guy or the best at ball protection, etc, so I'm not going to have him handling in crunch time or anything, but he is capable of creating.



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Re: Point Guard 

Post#65 » by esqtvd » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:58 am

Image

"Point guard? We ain't got no point guard. We don't need no stinkin' point guard!"

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Re: Point Guard 

Post#66 » by James2000 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:38 am

I think that it might be a great move by Ty Lue. I think that if they can integrate paul George into the scottie pippen role and Kawhi Leonard into the Jordan role, then this might be the best move possible.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#67 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:30 pm

Much easier to avoid a traditional PG with this. Guess sometimes when a person is #sittingrightnext to another person, they have their own ideas about what to do if they had their choice. :D

Would be great if we had a 6'6" Ron Harper as the "pg" defending on our perimeter to go with it:

Quiet and good defense > Loud, 6'1", dumb fouls defense.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#68 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:33 pm

esqtvd wrote:Image

"Point guard? We ain't got no point guard. We don't need no stinkin' point guard!"

Read on Twitter


Having Kawhi constantly ISO to create shot opportunities to diminishing returns over the course of a game or playoff series is bad.
But having Kawhi initiate as part of an overall team offensive scheme sounds much, much better (even if I'd still like to see us add another PG.)
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#69 » by nickhx2 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:36 pm

agree. i've always thought that kawhi would be incredible in the triangle. i am not sure it will ever be coming back in a pure standalone system but implementing a few sets here and there sounds like a really good thing.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#70 » by TheNewEra » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:53 pm

Kennard getting a large deal they must have faith he’s the long term PG
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#71 » by Captain Ballmer » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:14 pm

The guard characteristics in the league changed so much that we don't have a guard on the roster that possess at least one current skills on elite level(athleticism, shooting, length, muscle) in his pocket.

The guard position became more physical that every guard drafted especially in the last 5-6 years are either uber athletic speedsters or wing sized tall, bulky players. They are easily exploit our backcourt D creates mismatches. Below I listed from each team, starting PG or projected to be in couple years.

Ben Simmons 6-10 Long, Athletic
LBJ 6-8 Bulky, Still Athletic?
Doncic 6-7 Bulky
Lamelo 6-7 Long, Athletic
Lonzo 6-6 Long, Athletic
Levert 6-6 Long, wingspan
Harden 6-5 Bulky
Dinwiddie 6-5 Long
Malcolm Brogdon 6-5 Bulky
Killian Hayes 6-5 Long, Bulky
Shai 6-5 Long
Nickeil Alexander-Walker 6-5 Long
Tyler Herro 6-5 Athletic
Tyrese Haliburton 6-5 Long, Athletic
Dejounte Murray 6-5 Long, Athletic
Derrick White 6-4 Long, Bulky
D'Angelo Russell 6-4 Long wingspan, Shooter
Jamal Murray 6-4 Bulky, Athletic
J.Clarkson 6-4 Long, Athletic
Markelle Fultz 6-3 Long wingspan, Athletic
Marcus Smart 6-3 Bulky
Eric Bledsoe 6-1 Bulky(Should have been a running back!)

And then IF the guard doesn't possess any of the impressive physicall tools aforementioned, only attributes left that made them last in the current league are either they being super fast and/or deadly volume shooters

John Wall 6-4 Speedster, wingspan
Coby White 6-4 Shooter, Wingspan
DeAaron Fox 6-3 Speedster, Athletic
Westbrook 6-3 Speedster, Bulky
Ja Morant 6-3 Speedster, Athletic
Stephen Curry 6-3 God level Shooter
CJ McCollum 6-3 Shooter
Kyrie Irving 6-2 Speedster, God Level Ball Skills.
Damian Lillard 6-2 Shooter, Pretty Good one.
Trae Young 6-1 Shooter, speedster
C.Sexton 6-1 Shooter, Athletic Scorer
Rozier 6-1 speedster, Athletic
D.Graham 6-1 Shooter
D.Garland 6-1 Shooter
D.Schroeder 6-1 Speedster, Athletic
F.VanVleet 6-1 Shooter
Kemba 6-0 Shooter

Lets also add the oldschool playmaking guards to the mix: CP3-Dragic-Conley-Lowry-Rubio-Rondo-Holiday

Pat and Lou at 6-1, doesn't have elite shooting, speed or size. They don't have oldschool style playmaking too. Reggie on the other hand 6-3 with respectful wingspan but has avarage athleticism. They can't play on 2020's offense with lacking slashing/shooting to put pressure opponents. They also can't be physical on D get exploited or in foul trouble.

It sucks but we have by far worst PG rotation in the league. I just hope we could get someone before the trade deadline, has at least one skill our roster desperately needs.
Sam Cassell, Cuttino Mobley, Shaun Livingston, Corey Maggette, Chris Kaman.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#72 » by TheNewEra » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:50 pm

Captain Ballmer wrote:The guard characteristics in the league changed so much that we don't have a guard on the roster that possess at least one current skills on elite level(athleticism, shooting, length, muscle) in his pocket.

The guard position became more physical that every guard drafted especially in the last 5-6 years are either uber athletic speedsters or wing sized tall, bulky players. They are easily exploit our backcourt D creates mismatches. Below I listed from each team, starting PG or projected to be in couple years.

Ben Simmons 6-10 Long, Athletic
LBJ 6-8 Bulky, Still Athletic?
Doncic 6-7 Bulky
Lamelo 6-7 Long, Athletic
Lonzo 6-6 Long, Athletic
Levert 6-6 Long, wingspan
Harden 6-5 Bulky
Dinwiddie 6-5 Long
Malcolm Brogdon 6-5 Bulky
Killian Hayes 6-5 Long, Bulky
Shai 6-5 Long
Nickeil Alexander-Walker 6-5 Long
Tyler Herro 6-5 Athletic
Tyrese Haliburton 6-5 Long, Athletic
Dejounte Murray 6-5 Long, Athletic
Derrick White 6-4 Long, Bulky
D'Angelo Russell 6-4 Long wingspan, Shooter
Jamal Murray 6-4 Bulky, Athletic
J.Clarkson 6-4 Long, Athletic
Markelle Fultz 6-3 Long wingspan, Athletic
Marcus Smart 6-3 Bulky
Eric Bledsoe 6-1 Bulky(Should have been a running back!)

And then IF the guard doesn't possess any of the impressive physicall tools aforementioned, only attributes left that made them last in the current league are either they being super fast and/or deadly volume shooters

John Wall 6-4 Speedster, wingspan
Coby White 6-4 Shooter, Wingspan
DeAaron Fox 6-3 Speedster, Athletic
Westbrook 6-3 Speedster, Bulky
Ja Morant 6-3 Speedster, Athletic
Stephen Curry 6-3 God level Shooter
CJ McCollum 6-3 Shooter
Kyrie Irving 6-2 Speedster, God Level Ball Skills.
Damian Lillard 6-2 Shooter, Pretty Good one.
Trae Young 6-1 Shooter, speedster
C.Sexton 6-1 Shooter, Athletic Scorer
Rozier 6-1 speedster, Athletic
D.Graham 6-1 Shooter
D.Garland 6-1 Shooter
D.Schroeder 6-1 Speedster, Athletic
F.VanVleet 6-1 Shooter
Kemba 6-0 Shooter

Lets also add the oldschool playmaking guards to the mix: CP3-Dragic-Conley-Lowry-Rubio-Rondo-Holiday

Pat and Lou at 6-1, doesn't have elite shooting, speed or size. They don't have oldschool style playmaking too. Reggie on the other hand 6-3 with respectful wingspan but has avarage athleticism. They can't play on 2020's offense with lacking slashing/shooting to put pressure opponents. They also can't be physical on D get exploited or in foul trouble.

It sucks but we have by far worst PG rotation in the league. I just hope we could get someone before the trade deadline, has at least one skill our roster desperately needs.


It was nice having a tall guard in SGA. Lou and Beverly up there in age and a long term fit needed soon.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#73 » by Roscoe Sheed » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:04 pm

Let's hope Toronto struggles greatly and decides to move Lowry. He would be a great fit.
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Re: Point Guard 

Post#74 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:07 pm

More than anything I'd just like us to do a better job of attacking the other team when Kawhi and PG get double-teamed (which is a lot.) When they aren't doubled they attack and score with high efficiency (especially Kawhi), when they get doubled the entire team is slow to react. We have enough 3-point shooters that if we can generate good open 3-point looks off of double teams, the math will be on our side.

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