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How is Frank any better than GM Doc?

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How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#1 » by MartinToVaught » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:56 pm

Time to face facts. He has given away nearly all of our draft picks and assets and wildly overspent to both construct and prop up a team that simply isn't good enough - just like GM Doc did with Lob City.

On top of that, he was still going to keep Doc even after last year's playoff meltdown until Ballmer stepped in. Then he ran a very uninspiring coaching search and settled on promoting from within.

Barring a miracle, we are looking at years of treadmilling in the first/second round just like the last few years of Lob City. It might be time for a new GM.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#2 » by TheNewEra » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:24 pm

Don’t start go for a walk. We can improve this roster but things will get better. Need to add some defense and playmaking
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#3 » by MartinToVaught » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:42 pm

TheNewEra wrote:Don’t start go for a walk. We can improve this roster but things will get better. Need to add some defense and playmaking

Theoretically we can improve the roster, but the problem is that I'm not sure I trust Frank to actually improve it at this point. Like, we already knew we needed more defense coming into the season, but Frank still traded for Kennard (and overpaid him) and brought Reggie back anyway. Even the major upgrade from Trez to Ibaka can only do so much when we still have so many defensive liabilities on the roster. We've been begging for playmaking for two seasons now and that hasn't been addressed either. It kind of feels like the Lob City days when we spent every season begging for an NBA-caliber wing and never got one.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#4 » by MarxyLebronist » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:52 pm

Pretty handcuffed at this point. Can't trade Kennard or George all year anyway.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#5 » by TheNewEra » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:53 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:Don’t start go for a walk. We can improve this roster but things will get better. Need to add some defense and playmaking

Theoretically we can improve the roster, but the problem is that I'm not sure I trust Frank to actually improve it at this point. Like, we already knew we needed more defense coming into the season, but Frank still traded for Kennard (and overpaid him) and brought Reggie back anyway. Even the major upgrade from Trez to Ibaka can only do so much when we still have so many defensive liabilities on the roster. We've been begging for playmaking for two seasons now and that hasn't been addressed either. It kind of feels like the Lob City days when we spent every season begging for an NBA-caliber wing and never got one.



It will be fine relax. Go watch a Wayne Brady comedy special to ease your mind
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#6 » by TheNewEra » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:54 pm

MarxyLebronist wrote:Pretty handcuffed at this point. Can't trade Kennard or George all year anyway.
Ride as is and win or go home.


Still have Lou and a bunch of 2nd rounders might be able to tag Reggie or 2Pat. Maybe even a prospect it’s far from over
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#7 » by MarxyLebronist » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:00 am

I don't see a move, but I'b be interested in DRose as one guy who could make a difference and be a reasonable target.
Oladipo is another who could make some sense.
I don't see the assets to get Oladipo, but stranger things have happened.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#8 » by Vae Victus » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:11 am

Yea, the moves made since the PG13 trade hasnt been very good.

The overpay for PG13 was crippling. If the team had been patient, likely coulda gotten him for same deal, minus future draft picks. OKC was never going to turn down that Westy for CP3 + 5 unprot FRP/swaps deal. Then Clips swoop in for PG13, but Kawhi wasnt giving us any time to wait. Kawhi literally coulda gone to LAL at the time and they woulda formed the super team to end all super teams with LBJ + AD + Kawhi. Considering how LBJ + AD was enough to win, i shudder to think how many chips they'd rack off if Kawhi had joined them. I think Logo and the rest of the FO knew that and thus pulled the trigger. Clippers basically saved the rest of the NBA from another 3 year dark age as the Lakers just clown on everyone until LBJ gets claimed by Father Time.

The moves thereafter have been poor, overpaying PatBev, overpaying Marcus Morris, losing Harrell for nothing (getting Ibaka at least took some of the sting off), keeping RJax over getting a real PG (hell i think Lin would be a sizable help in the backup playmaking department). Overpaying Kennard, which i thought wasnt necessary.

Good moves so far is signing Serge Ibaka to 2 year MLE, signing Batum for vet min, and trading for Kennard + 4 SRPs (needed trade ammo, but his extension was bleh).

At this point, the next moves is to find a taker for PatBev and Lou Will + SRPs for an upgrade at the PG or getting a better combo guard. Not sure what is out there that'll help.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#9 » by donemilio21 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:21 am

He is 100% better GM than Doc.
But if you want to evaluate his performance, I'd say completely ignore the PG trade and extension (I think that was almost all Ballmer and West) and table this conversation until the year end so we can see how Kennard and Morris signings turn out. Because those are two of his biggest money commitments.
Kawhi signing, Ibaka signing, losing Harrell for nothing, wasting a pick on a scrub like Jerome Robinson when the Porter Jr. was available. So it is a mixed bag so far.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#10 » by Clemenza » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:32 am

Only thing I was really pissed off was passing on Michael Porter Jr. in the draft and yeah, since Doc was the one who hired him, he wanted to keep him around way too long. Horrific non-excusable loss today. But lets see how we respond on Tuesday & Wednesday night first of all
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#11 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:44 am

Vae Victus wrote:losing Harrell for nothing

This is more of a mixed bag type of move. Ibaka is a huge upgrade over Trez, so it's not the end of the world, but Trez should have been traded by the deadline last season.

Don't forget losing JMyke to the Nuggets for nothing. To me, that's the far worse loss.

Clippers basically saved the rest of the NBA from another 3 year dark age as the Lakers just clown on everyone until LBJ gets claimed by Father Time.

I don't know, it sure feels like the NBA is in that exact three year dark age.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#12 » by TheNewEra » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:17 am

Christmas dinner hit all of the teams the next day
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#13 » by og15 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:24 am

There are a lot of people in the front office now, it’s not a barebones one like before, so why is Frank the one being picked on? Jerry West has an outsized presence, if West said they shouldn’t make the move, would they have? So that must mean he’s on board too, Frank isn’t the one doing the day to day GM duties either. I’m just curious as to why he is the one being targeted here?
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#14 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:32 am

og15 wrote:There are a lot of people in the front office now, it’s not a barebones one like before, so why is Frank the one being picked on? Jerry West has an outsized presence, if West said they shouldn’t make the move, would they have? So that must mean he’s on board too, Frank isn’t the one doing the day to day GM duties either. I’m just curious as to why he is the one being targeted here?

He's the president of basketball operations - and only because of Doc, not because of any amazing prior track record he had as an executive. As far as I'm concerned, both he and Lue are part of the same Doc culture that hasn't won anything here and likely never will.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#15 » by og15 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:39 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
og15 wrote:There are a lot of people in the front office now, it’s not a barebones one like before, so why is Frank the one being picked on? Jerry West has an outsized presence, if West said they shouldn’t make the move, would they have? So that must mean he’s on board too, Frank isn’t the one doing the day to day GM duties either. I’m just curious as to why he is the one being targeted here?

He's the president of basketball operations - and only because of Doc, not because of any amazing prior track record he had as an executive. As far as I'm concerned, both he and Lue are part of the same Doc culture that hasn't won anything here and likely never will.

So more of a guilt by association.

My issue is that this doesn’t really follow with the statement “He has given away nearly all of our draft picks and assets and wildly overspent to both construct and prop up a team that simply isn't good enough” as if he’s a one man front office. He isn’t even the GM, Winger is. Does Frank get blame only or does he also get credit when we like the moves? If there’s a consistency, then I’ll accept it, but if it is a Frank is guilty by association to Doc, all the bad decisions are his fault and all the good ones are other people, well...you know the problem that is evident there.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#16 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:53 am

og15 wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
og15 wrote:There are a lot of people in the front office now, it’s not a barebones one like before, so why is Frank the one being picked on? Jerry West has an outsized presence, if West said they shouldn’t make the move, would they have? So that must mean he’s on board too, Frank isn’t the one doing the day to day GM duties either. I’m just curious as to why he is the one being targeted here?

He's the president of basketball operations - and only because of Doc, not because of any amazing prior track record he had as an executive. As far as I'm concerned, both he and Lue are part of the same Doc culture that hasn't won anything here and likely never will.

So more of a guilt by association.

My issue is that this doesn’t really follow with the statement “He has given away nearly all of our draft picks and assets and wildly overspent to both construct and prop up a team that simply isn't good enough” as if he’s a one man front office. He isn’t even the GM, Winger is. Does Frank get blame only or does he also get credit when we like the moves? If there’s a consistency, then I’ll accept it, but if it is a Frank is guilty by association to Doc, all the bad decisions are his fault and all the good ones are other people, well...you know the problem that is evident there.

Frank is the one who won Executive of the Year for the Kawhi signing, so if he's going to get all the credit for that, then it's only fair for him to also get most of the blame for the long list of poor decisions that have hurt the team's chances of actually winning anything with Kawhi.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#17 » by Quake Griffin » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:00 pm

Never truly liked him for the role and never really liked this whole idea that he is supposed to be some positive result from the Doc era- where Doc was terrible at POBO but at least he set us up with Frank, etc. etc.

Not my cup of tea.

We can certainly do better. We have the resources to do better. We should.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#18 » by MarxyLebronist » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm

Yeah it's a weird habit of sports business that they try to "stay positive" and let their losers show up as winners somehow by association, down the line. The other bad habit is the "outside the box" agents-as-GMs type stuff. It just shines a brighter light on the relationships and trust challenge across vast personalities (pro athlete from one sort of world experience and spotlight, pro executive/lawyer from another). But when you win, everyone's a genius. When you lose, everyone sucks. So it goes.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#19 » by TheNewEra » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:57 pm

og15 wrote:There are a lot of people in the front office now, it’s not a barebones one like before, so why is Frank the one being picked on? Jerry West has an outsized presence, if West said they shouldn’t make the move, would they have? So that must mean he’s on board too, Frank isn’t the one doing the day to day GM duties either. I’m just curious as to why he is the one being targeted here?



Jerome is 100% on Jerry :lol:
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#20 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:58 pm

I'm fine with where we are, which is to say taking into account the good and the bad I am happy with the current state of the Los Angeles Clippers. I might be more nervous about Frank if we didn't have Jerry West in the org, but I'm good with our FO as a whole.

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