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How is Frank any better than GM Doc?

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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#41 » by Vae Victus » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:54 am

Is the team willing to burn a DET SRP or two to go get some D first guards? Any good targets out there?

I wouldn't trading Lou Will + SRP (or two) for 2 cheap D first players (1 guard + 1 wing). We dont need Lou Will's offense, i'd rather just let RJax and Kennard run sets. If Clips can trade Lou Will down to cheaper pieces, can also maybe sign a vet min too.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#42 » by og15 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:50 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
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Why is our front office so obsessed with guards who don't play defense? Rose also can't stay healthy and isn't a good three-point shooter, so it's hard to see how he makes the team better in any significant way. Make it make sense.

All depends on who he is being swapped for. If you're swapping Lou Williams for Rose, then it makes sense. Rose is younger and gets to the paint more (though he doesn't draw fouls as well).

I think we should differentiate between the team being obsessed with such players and the team not having the financial or asset based options to get guards that play both sides at a good level.

Guys like Derrick Rose are the ones that are generally available for what the Clippers are offering, and the hard cap makes the Clippers trade options limited (Clippers are only about $500K below the hard cap).
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#43 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:22 am

Even a swap for Lou doesn't make sense. The goal should be to have fewer defensive liabilities on our team, not replace one liability with a slightly better one and still have the same issue.

The front office should be prioritizing defense if they can't find a two-way guard in our price range, not offense. We have enough scoring.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#44 » by TheNewEra » Tue Feb 2, 2021 1:56 am

I want Frank and crew to get greedy and maximize this team to the fullest. We have about a 8 or 9 man solid rotation right now and it could be cleaned up. We have a questionable fit a guard and getting another 3/d ATHLETIC wing would be a bonus

Cap space will be tight but we could make some strong longterm moves now before the deadline.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#45 » by esqtvd » Tue Feb 2, 2021 2:13 am

TheNewEra wrote:I want Frank and crew to get greedy and maximize this team to the fullest. We have about a 8 or 9 man solid rotation right now and it could be cleaned up. We have a questionable fit a guard and getting another 3/d ATHLETIC wing would be a bonus

Cap space will be tight but we could make some strong longterm moves now before the deadline.



Interesting point. If I understand the sal cap rules correctly, we're going to have to blow up the salary cap/luxury tax next year bigtime. Kawhi and Serge can and probably will opt out of their player options, and if we want to keep Batum, he's an UFA and we're gonna have to pony up serious dough on him too.

Once you blow through the cap, you can only blow it up further in re-signing your OWN free agents, not anyone else's, so if we want to add anyone substantial for next year who makes more than the minimum, we have to do it now, before the trading deadline. [This is why we gave Jamal and Austin so much $$ in the crazy free agent summer of 2016. It was either them or nothing.]


FYI--we can't wait on our FAs because of the cap hold. The NBA ain't stupid. :P


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What is a cap hold?

A cap hold is the amount of space a free agent counts towards a team’s cap. These “cap holds” factor in when a team signs free agents. If they didn’t exist, a team could use their cap space to sign other free agents until the space was gone, and then re-sign their own free agents using the Bird exception. A cap hold cannot exceed the maximum contract offer that player can receive on the open market (as defined by years of experience – indicated in the table above by MAX followed by the years of experience). The cap hold disappears if the team renounces their own free agent, that free agent signs with a new team, or re-signs with the same team.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#46 » by TheNewEra » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:02 pm

Think Frank and crew missed a golden opportunity to make a move having the days off we had just now. No time table on Bev and George with a weak backcourt defense
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#47 » by og15 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:10 am

TheNewEra wrote:Think Frank and crew missed a golden opportunity to make a move having the days off we had just now. No time table on Bev and George with a weak backcourt defense

I don't know if I would call it a golden opportunity, we're still over a month away from the deadline that teams are still going to hold out for the best deal. Clippers don't have the shiniest assets out there, so I can't imagine any team jumping to take what the Clippers would be offering before exhausting other options.

There are only three teams under the cap, Charlotte, OKC and New York. So those are the only three teams that the Clippers could send a player to while either taking on no salary (Charlotte and OKC) or taking on decently less salary (New York). Every other team, the Clippers have to be the team taking on less contract within the 125%, or take on no more than about 300K than is being sent out.

A guy like Hill is out with injury right now, so trading for him wouldn't make sense, but in a case like that, the Clippers would have to do something like Williams + Kabengele, but then I'm not sure there would be enough room to add anyone to fill the roster spot. Charlotte, I don't know, they wouldn't want Williams, so you'd be looking at something like Zubac for Graham + Biyombo for example if they wanted that. Rozier is tough because his contract requires either Beverley or Morris plus someone else going out. With Beverley, it has to be Lou or Zubac contract wise, which both don't make sense. Why would Charlotte add two more guards when they are trying to get rid of guards, and why would Clippers trade the backup C in a 2 for 1 when they have a hard cap and won't be able to replace the position and there aren't players that cheap and available who can anyways (this would also means Patterson becomes a rotation C)

Rubio at $17 million would require a 2 for 1 from the Clippers which is obviously tough for the cap situation, but hard to know what the Wolves would want there.

Another options is trying to do a three way with Milwaukee and Charlotte, Clippers bring back Graham (CHA) and Torrey Craig (MIL). Bucks get Williams (LAC) and Charlotte gets DJ Wilson (MIL), low contract player from Milwaukee to cover contracts and a 2nd Round Pick from LAC. Light for the Hornets, but who knows.

Anyways, my point is that I doubt they have any good offers lined up and waiting where they can just make a deal, they probably have to dig and might have to wait until closer to the deadline.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#48 » by Max Headrom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:52 pm

Rubio has been terrible this year. Wouldn't want him on this team that relies on ball movement and guys being able to knock down shots. Teams are leaving him open, Clippers did it last night and that messes up the rest of the offense because the defense can just key in on the other threats offensively.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#49 » by esqtvd » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:43 pm

Max Headrom wrote:Rubio has been terrible this year. Wouldn't want him on this team that relies on ball movement and guys being able to knock down shots. Teams are leaving him open, Clippers did it last night and that messes up the rest of the offense because the defense can just key in on the other threats offensively.


yup the grass is always greener
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#50 » by og15 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:24 am

Max Headrom wrote:Rubio has been terrible this year. Wouldn't want him on this team that relies on ball movement and guys being able to knock down shots. Teams are leaving him open, Clippers did it last night and that messes up the rest of the offense because the defense can just key in on the other threats offensively.

He can shoot better than he has, but he's still not a shooter, so I get the reservation. He helps in some areas and hurts in others, but only makes sense if the deal was perfect and I don't see a mix of contracts that makes sense.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#51 » by Max Headrom » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:46 am

og15 wrote:
Max Headrom wrote:Rubio has been terrible this year. Wouldn't want him on this team that relies on ball movement and guys being able to knock down shots. Teams are leaving him open, Clippers did it last night and that messes up the rest of the offense because the defense can just key in on the other threats offensively.

He can shoot better than he has, but he's still not a shooter, so I get the reservation. He helps in some areas and hurts in others, but only makes sense if the deal was perfect and I don't see a mix of contracts that makes sense.


Yeah, don't think he moves the needle enough. No sense in doing deals just to do them. I honestly feel like unless it's a no brainer upgrade, stand pat. Lue hasn't shown that he'll overplay guys even if they don't have it going or not playing adequate defense so, maybe if Lou stays, Lue won't play him when he's being hunted.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#52 » by Clemenza » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:51 am

It continues.. This is the guy we flipped for Luke Kennard


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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#53 » by MartinToVaught » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:02 pm

Just venting after today's latest exposure against a good team, but the Playoff P trade is the worst trade in NBA history by far and that alone should get the whole front office fired. Is there any doubt that we win this game with Shai and Gallo instead?
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#54 » by Captain Ballmer » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:10 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:Just venting after today's latest exposure against a good team, but the Playoff P trade is the worst trade in NBA history by far and that alone should get the whole front office fired. Is there any doubt that we win this game with Shai and Gallo instead?

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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#55 » by og15 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 12:58 am

MartinToVaught wrote:Just venting after today's latest exposure against a good team, but the Playoff P trade is the worst trade in NBA history by far and that alone should get the whole front office fired. Is there any doubt that we win this game with Shai and Gallo instead?
Is there any doubt? Is there any doubt? Zero, the team would be undefeated or max 1-2 losses with those guys. Then I woke up.... :lol:

Oft injured, not very useful in the playoffs Gallo and SGA who is good but not nearly as good as PG are not a magic wand for winning my dude. Of course if you also subtract all the wins the team wouldn't have if you replaced George with those two, where do we end up? That's another interesting question.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#56 » by Clemenza » Mon Mar 1, 2021 1:09 am

MartinToVaught wrote:Just venting after today's latest exposure against a good team, but the Playoff P trade is the worst trade in NBA history by far and that alone should get the whole front office fired. Is there any doubt that we win this game with Shai and Gallo instead?

Your guy Kawhi forced that trade to happen! Don't ever forget that! Not to mention Gallo is only good one out of every four games now. SGA is either all star material or a non factor. He's got to get consistency down pat. Do you even watch them play on their new teams?
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#57 » by esqtvd » Mon Mar 1, 2021 1:13 am

og15 wrote:Oft injured, not very useful in the playoffs Gallo and SGA who is good but not nearly as good as PG are not a magic wand for winning my dude. Of course if you also subtract all the wins the team wouldn't have if you replaced George with those two, where do we end up? That's another interesting question.



Interesting but moot. Gallo and SGA were already here and Kawhi wouldn't sign unless we traded for PG or someone similar. In fact, they stupidly showed Kawhi a list of potential co-stars and he picked PG.

The better question here is whether Doc was any worse a GM than the dozen people they hired to replace him for tens of millions of dollars. Hell, Daryl Morey tore up heaven and earth in Houston and still couldn't get it to work. Championships are won on the court not in the executive suite.

I'm not a big fan of closing threads but this one's a better candidate than that other one. At least that was looking forward. :wink:
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#58 » by og15 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:08 pm

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:Oft injured, not very useful in the playoffs Gallo and SGA who is good but not nearly as good as PG are not a magic wand for winning my dude. Of course if you also subtract all the wins the team wouldn't have if you replaced George with those two, where do we end up? That's another interesting question.



Interesting but moot. Gallo and SGA were already here and Kawhi wouldn't sign unless we traded for PG or someone similar. In fact, they stupidly showed Kawhi a list of potential co-stars and he picked PG.

The better question here is whether Doc was any worse a GM than the dozen people they hired to replace him for tens of millions of dollars. Hell, Daryl Morey tore up heaven and earth in Houston and still couldn't get it to work. Championships are won on the court not in the executive suite.

I'm not a big fan of closing threads but this one's a better candidate than that other one. At least that was looking forward. :wink:

I was being facetious with that last part of the post, sorry guys, should have put gree font or something.
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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#59 » by esqtvd » Tue Mar 2, 2021 7:28 am

I guess he wasn't fit to play in the Bubble after all because he's done

but iirc he did Zubac a helluva lot of good with his coaching--everybody regressed in the Bubble restart except Zu


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Re: How is Frank any better than GM Doc? 

Post#60 » by Kelphus » Tue Mar 2, 2021 3:55 pm

The continued obsession of some posters with Doc is boring. I don’t care about him or comparisons with him. He is no longer our coach or GM.

Or, let’s revive the Stojko Vrancovic thread please, also Hollywood Robinson thread, and of course Eric Piatkowski thread

Please close this stupid thread.
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