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Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST

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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#81 » by TrueLAfan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:56 pm

og15 wrote:
KL2 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Lue said he talked to Lou, Kennard, and Reggie last night about the lineup not working and they would make changes. Told Reggie to stay ready.
Sometimes unexpected lineups surprise you. The regular season is the time to experiment these lineups for a team like this, not the time to have a rigid rotation. 10 games is a solid sample size, saw that it didn't work, time to move on.

I actually like that he didn't simply dismiss it without giving it a chance. Coaches many times stumble upon good lineups, but that doesn't happen if you don't give it a chance even if it might not seem logical naturally. As long you're willing to look at the data and say, "okay, that's not working" instead of trying to force it to work, it's good.


Agreed. This is also where a shortened preseason hurts (a lot). A couple of extra weeks of practice and three or four more preseason games tells you a lot, and that didn't exist this year. I went into the year thinking the first 10-15 games were going to be all about adjusting lineups, especially with Marcus out.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#82 » by TrueLAfan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:15 pm

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:Both teams have just been hitting in this one. Abused the high pick and roll for pull up three's for a while, someone will need to make some consistent stops or just out offense the other guys.

Guess Lou was playing a bit passive to try and fit in better. That doesn't tend to work out for players like him to be most effective.



Lou 9 FTAs. He's been averaging ONE.

ONE. Lou brought it today. 21 points, team-high plus+16. With all the trade talk, clearly he's been feeling unappreciated and made a statement today. 4 assists and THREE steals.

Yes, Kawhi and PG came through--as they are paid to do--but the difference today was Lou.

Trade me? Fine. Do it now. My contract's up. I gave the Clippers a hometown discount and now I'm the problem? We all know my brother Trez busted ass EVERY night and the "Clipper family" left him out like a dog in the rain.

And I'm next.

Let me start over somewhere else now. You think I'm gonna drive the lane and let some 260-pound idiot rookie end my career? What are you smoking, Mr. Ballmer???

It's funny--I used to side with the org. And rah rah rah, teamteamteam. When Sterling was running things, at least you knew it was a just a business. None of that bogus "family" sh*it. No owner pretending he's your biggest fan.

Image

If I'm Lou Williams, I'm GFY, Mr. Ballmer. :D Pay me or trade me. Try to do without me.


Totally agree. A couple of websites/people have somberly said things like “Lou’s TS$--his efficiency—is down this year, for the third year in a row.” For God’s sake, he’s shooting great. But he’s not going to the line AT ALL. He goes to the line half as often as he did two years ago—mainly because he’s also scoring less. The earlier post about Lou wanting/trying to “fit in” is, I think, accurate. It’s a mistake for him to try and do that. Lou has a good assortment of skills and all, but what we want and need Lou Williams to do is play like Lou Williams. Aggressively look for scoring opportunities and take them without hesitation. Draw the fouls as a result. Dish when you don’t have those opportunities. It’s been a successful formula for us the past three years (and for Lou during almost all of his career) and I think it will still be successful if he allows himself to get back into that groove.

This is also where Luke is a (big) improvement over Sham. Sham could really shoot, but was almost always a catch and shoot guy that had problems creating his own shot. Luke can create his own shot and dish better than Sham—but he hasn’t shown it as much this year, partly (IMO) because Lou has been more passive. This is where you tell Luke—“Lou is the primary bench scorer—but he’s also a very good passer. Just keep your feet moving, and he’ll get you the ball plenty of times. And you look for him in the same way.”

And, to sort of bring everything full circle, this is where using Reggie too much hurts. The other reason we haven’t seen Luke pass the ball as much is because the ball isn’t in his hands. Reggie shoots more than Luke, almost as much as Lou, when he’s out there. He’s averaging more assists per 36 than Lou right now. But I want the shooting decisions to be made by Lou Williams and Luke Kennard, not Reggie Jackson. If Reggie played a little less, and shot 20% less when he was out there, I think we’d get a big bump from both Lou (more aggressive = more shots = better Lou) and Luke (higher usage = more passing attempts and scoring possibilities).
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#83 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:27 pm

I'm still firmly in the "trade Lou" camp. We already know he can score against bad teams in the regular season. But we also know every good team is going to make sure he's switched on them in clutch time because he can't guard anyone. And we know he won't show up in the playoffs with any consistency.

Games like these are why he's still tradeable despite his flaws - he's appealing for treadmill teams that want to increase their ratings because he's still capable of putting on a show against bad defenses. But there's a reason he's usually one of the first players to leave when a team stops treadmilling and starts getting serious (see: Toronto and Houston).
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#84 » by Clemenza » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:57 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:I'm still firmly in the "trade Lou" camp. We already know he can score against bad teams in the regular season. But we also know every good team is going to make sure he's switched on them in clutch time because he can't guard anyone. And we know he won't show up in the playoffs with any consistency.

Games like these are why he's still tradeable despite his flaws - he's appealing for treadmill teams that want to increase their ratings because he's still capable of putting on a show against bad defenses. But there's a reason he's usually one of the first players to leave when a team stops treadmilling and starts getting serious (see: Toronto and Houston).

We'll know what's what in the next couple of games if Lou has potentially turned the corner. It looks like he won't be paired with Reggie Jackson in the backcourt and he wasn't trying to feed/setup Zu which was of course a turnover every single time. He also played some defense in the win yesterday so him looking for his shot -and taking good shots- and not worrying about getting Zu touches might get him back on track. We'll see.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#85 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 pm

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:Both teams have just been hitting in this one. Abused the high pick and roll for pull up three's for a while, someone will need to make some consistent stops or just out offense the other guys.

Guess Lou was playing a bit passive to try and fit in better. That doesn't tend to work out for players like him to be most effective.



Lou 9 FTAs. He's been averaging ONE.

ONE. Lou brought it today. 21 points, team-high plus+16. With all the trade talk, clearly he's been feeling unappreciated and made a statement today. 4 assists and THREE steals.

Yes, Kawhi and PG came through--as they are paid to do--but the difference today was Lou.

Trade me? Fine. Do it now. My contract's up. I gave the Clippers a hometown discount and now I'm the problem? We all know my brother Trez busted ass EVERY night and the "Clipper family" left him out like a dog in the rain.

And I'm next.

Let me start over somewhere else now. You think I'm gonna drive the lane and let some 260-pound idiot rookie end my career? What are you smoking, Mr. Ballmer???

It's funny--I used to side with the org. And rah rah rah, teamteamteam. When Sterling was running things, at least you knew it was a just a business. None of that bogus "family" sh*it. No owner pretending he's your biggest fan.

Image

If I'm Lou Williams, I'm GFY, Mr. Ballmer. :D Pay me or trade me. Try to do without me.


I don't disagree with your post, although I guess to me the business end of it is the bottom line no matter who the owner, coach, or player(s). I don't think we mistreated Trezz in not re-signing him, nor does it bother me at all that he signed with the Lakers. I mean in the long run, he's supporting himself and his family and not Clipper or Laker fans. And the team is ultimately committed to putting together the best squad every year, year over year, which often means upgrading existing position players.

I don't expect any players to give a hometown discount for the sake of loyalty. It is nice when they sign perhaps a slightly lower than market value contract (or any contract if the player is very sought after), because they like playing here or see that it is on the balance of things still a great situation for them where they know their role and their teammates, and can be part of a winning team. It means the organization is run well and provides a good environment for staff and team. Having Ballmer as owner definitely increases the chances of acquiring and keeping players that we want. Other than that, an owner can't promise anything extra or down the road because that would he circumventing the salary cap anyways.

Lou is a pending free agent, as a older veteran his smartest decision is to simply play hard for the rest of the year. With his track record he will get interest from other teams in the offseason (maybe or maybe not including the Clippers.) He's not really in the position to demand anything, so to do so would only hurt himself.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#86 » by NickP » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:30 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:I'm still firmly in the "trade Lou" camp. We already know he can score against bad teams in the regular season. But we also know every good team is going to make sure he's switched on them in clutch time because he can't guard anyone. And we know he won't show up in the playoffs with any consistency.

Games like these are why he's still tradeable despite his flaws - he's appealing for treadmill teams that want to increase their ratings because he's still capable of putting on a show against bad defenses. But there's a reason he's usually one of the first players to leave when a team stops treadmilling and starts getting serious (see: Toronto and Houston).

Exactly. I'm not falling for this Lou Williams trap either. I know how this movie ends in the playoffs.
Trade him and get something, anything in return.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#87 » by playaloc916 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:54 pm

TrueLAfan wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:Both teams have just been hitting in this one. Abused the high pick and roll for pull up three's for a while, someone will need to make some consistent stops or just out offense the other guys.

Guess Lou was playing a bit passive to try and fit in better. That doesn't tend to work out for players like him to be most effective.



Lou 9 FTAs. He's been averaging ONE.

ONE. Lou brought it today. 21 points, team-high plus+16. With all the trade talk, clearly he's been feeling unappreciated and made a statement today. 4 assists and THREE steals.

Yes, Kawhi and PG came through--as they are paid to do--but the difference today was Lou.

Trade me? Fine. Do it now. My contract's up. I gave the Clippers a hometown discount and now I'm the problem? We all know my brother Trez busted ass EVERY night and the "Clipper family" left him out like a dog in the rain.

And I'm next.

Let me start over somewhere else now. You think I'm gonna drive the lane and let some 260-pound idiot rookie end my career? What are you smoking, Mr. Ballmer???

It's funny--I used to side with the org. And rah rah rah, teamteamteam. When Sterling was running things, at least you knew it was a just a business. None of that bogus "family" sh*it. No owner pretending he's your biggest fan.

Image

If I'm Lou Williams, I'm GFY, Mr. Ballmer. :D Pay me or trade me. Try to do without me.


Totally agree. A couple of websites/people have somberly said things like “Lou’s TS$--his efficiency—is down this year, for the third year in a row.” For God’s sake, he’s shooting great. But he’s not going to the line AT ALL. He goes to the line half as often as he did two years ago—mainly because he’s also scoring less. The earlier post about Lou wanting/trying to “fit in” is, I think, accurate. It’s a mistake for him to try and do that. Lou has a good assortment of skills and all, but what we want and need Lou Williams to do is play like Lou Williams. Aggressively look for scoring opportunities and take them without hesitation. Draw the fouls as a result. Dish when you don’t have those opportunities. It’s been a successful formula for us the past three years (and for Lou during almost all of his career) and I think it will still be successful if he allows himself to get back into that groove.

This is also where Luke is a (big) improvement over Sham. Sham could really shoot, but was almost always a catch and shoot guy that had problems creating his own shot. Luke can create his own shot and dish better than Sham—but he hasn’t shown it as much this year, partly (IMO) because Lou has been more passive. This is where you tell Luke—“Lou is the primary bench scorer—but he’s also a very good passer. Just keep your feet moving, and he’ll get you the ball plenty of times. And you look for him in the same way.”

And, to sort of bring everything full circle, this is where using Reggie too much hurts. The other reason we haven’t seen Luke pass the ball as much is because the ball isn’t in his hands. Reggie shoots more than Luke, almost as much as Lou, when he’s out there. He’s averaging more assists per 36 than Lou right now. But I want the shooting decisions to be made by Lou Williams and Luke Kennard, not Reggie Jackson. If Reggie played a little less, and shot 20% less when he was out there, I think we’d get a big bump from both Lou (more aggressive = more shots = better Lou) and Luke (higher usage = more passing attempts and scoring possibilities).



I think this interview is pretty telling. At the 2:40 mark, he gets specifically asked about Lue and the 10 game experiment, and how after that was over, Lue asked him to "play like yourself". Lou then points out that he was trying to fit into the system and be more of a facilitator. It's pretty clear that is not his strength, and we need him to get us buckets when the bench is cold, and that's what he did against the Bulls. He even had that Kawhi/Pat Bev-type steal at the end of the game. Let's see what happens... I don't mind the experimenting with lineups, just as long as the coaches are finding out synergies within their systems, and have the players playing to their strengths, instead of trying to force players into something they're not.

And that's a pretty sweet hat by the way :lol:
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#88 » by og15 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:23 pm

NickP wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:I'm still firmly in the "trade Lou" camp. We already know he can score against bad teams in the regular season. But we also know every good team is going to make sure he's switched on them in clutch time because he can't guard anyone. And we know he won't show up in the playoffs with any consistency.

Games like these are why he's still tradeable despite his flaws - he's appealing for treadmill teams that want to increase their ratings because he's still capable of putting on a show against bad defenses. But there's a reason he's usually one of the first players to leave when a team stops treadmilling and starts getting serious (see: Toronto and Houston).

Exactly. I'm not falling for this Lou Williams trap either. I know how this movie ends in the playoffs.
Trade him and get something, anything in return.
I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.

I would love George Hill, but OKC is going to be looking for picks. Rubio would also be nice, but Lou doesn't make a ton of sense on Minnesota, especially in place of Rubio.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#89 » by Roscoe Sheed » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:24 am

og15 wrote:
NickP wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:I'm still firmly in the "trade Lou" camp. We already know he can score against bad teams in the regular season. But we also know every good team is going to make sure he's switched on them in clutch time because he can't guard anyone. And we know he won't show up in the playoffs with any consistency.

Games like these are why he's still tradeable despite his flaws - he's appealing for treadmill teams that want to increase their ratings because he's still capable of putting on a show against bad defenses. But there's a reason he's usually one of the first players to leave when a team stops treadmilling and starts getting serious (see: Toronto and Houston).

Exactly. I'm not falling for this Lou Williams trap either. I know how this movie ends in the playoffs.
Trade him and get something, anything in return.
I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.

I would love George Hill, but OKC is going to be looking for picks. Rubio would also be nice, but Lou doesn't make a ton of sense on Minnesota, especially in place of Rubio.

I agree, Hill or Rubio would be nice.

I also think Rose would be a good option. I watch the Pistons periodically because they are my 2nd favorite team and I've been impressed with his ability to get to the rim and he is decent at distributing the ball too
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#90 » by esqtvd » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:45 am

og15 wrote:I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.




For anyone who's played playground ball, it's so easy to hate on "gunners."

I'm not disagreeing, but I think the problem is the same as in the Lob City days--Jamal and Lou were not the problem, the problem was the dependence on the because the bench sucked such total ass.

NBA players respect the hell out of Jamal and Lou. They're NOT selfish players and when everybody else gets the tightass, Jamal and Lou stand up take the shot--and accept the consequences.

Many or most of the other players hide. They're happy to collect their paychecks and let guys like Jamal and Lou get the credit or blame.


Jamal broke my heart because he really did blow in the playoffs, but Lou's 17.6 points per 36 are not that bad, mostly playing with the second unit. He's been MIA lately and he just let everybody know how much he is needed.

At the moment, Senior, Bev, and Kennard got their money and Lou is about to be kicked out on the street. Lou can win you a gae and they can't, so wtf.

Just telling it from Lou's point of view. Ballmer should have hired me instead of Lee Jenkins as Vice President In Charge of Feelings and Identity. I work cheaper. :wink:
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#91 » by NickP » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:19 am

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.




For anyone who's played playground ball, it's so easy to hate on "gunners."

I'm not disagreeing, but I think the problem is the same as in the Lob City days--Jamal and Lou were not the problem, the problem was the dependence on the because the bench sucked such total ass.

NBA players respect the hell out of Jamal and Lou. They're NOT selfish players and when everybody else gets the tightass, Jamal and Lou stand up take the shot--and accept the consequences.

Many or most of the other players hide. They're happy to collect their paychecks and let guys like Jamal and Lou get the credit or blame.


Jamal broke my heart because he really did blow in the playoffs, but Lou's 17.6 points per 36 are not that bad, mostly playing with the second unit. He's been MIA lately and he just let everybody know how much he is needed.

At the moment, Senior, Bev, and Kennard got their money and Lou is about to be kicked out on the street. Lou can win you a gae and they can't, so wtf.

Just telling it from Lou's point of view. Ballmer should have hired me instead of Lee Jenkins as Vice President In Charge of Feelings and Identity. I work cheaper. :wink:

Maybe Lou can hire you to take care of his feelings when he gets traded? :)
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#92 » by esqtvd » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:39 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:
og15 wrote:
I would love George Hill, but OKC is going to be looking for picks. Rubio would also be nice, but Lou doesn't make a ton of sense on Minnesota, especially in place of Rubio.


I agree, Hill or Rubio would be nice.

I also think Rose would be a good option. I watch the Pistons periodically because they are my 2nd favorite team and I've been impressed with his ability to get to the rim and he is decent at distributing the ball too



Hill and Rose, yes--everyone's just waiting to see if they're still healthy at the trading deadline. Bids will come in.

Rubio? Talented. Not a baller. Eurotrash.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#93 » by og15 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:40 am

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.




For anyone who's played playground ball, it's so easy to hate on "gunners."

I'm not disagreeing, but I think the problem is the same as in the Lob City days--Jamal and Lou were not the problem, the problem was the dependence on the because the bench sucked such total ass.

NBA players respect the hell out of Jamal and Lou. They're NOT selfish players and when everybody else gets the tightass, Jamal and Lou stand up take the shot--and accept the consequences.

Many or most of the other players hide. They're happy to collect their paychecks and let guys like Jamal and Lou get the credit or blame.


Jamal broke my heart because he really did blow in the playoffs, but Lou's 17.6 points per 36 are not that bad, mostly playing with the second unit. He's been MIA lately and he just let everybody know how much he is needed.

At the moment, Senior, Bev, and Kennard got their money and Lou is about to be kicked out on the street. Lou can win you a gae and they can't, so wtf.

Just telling it from Lou's point of view. Ballmer should have hired me instead of Lee Jenkins as Vice President In Charge of Feelings and Identity. I work cheaper. :wink:

That's always the argument for the inefficient gunners, that when they get hot, they can win you a game.

It's very true that they can, but the problem is that in the playoffs, then getting hot is usually very few and far between, and if they are playing 25, 26, 27 mpg, it simply doesn't work over a long playoffs run.

Over a playoff run, to have a guy who becomes pretty inefficient, still shoots a good amount, but has a lot of poor games where he might help loose you the lead and the game, but, hey, he can possibly win you that one game when he gets hot.

If that guy is your 10th man who you put in to see if he's hot, and if not, you sit him, it works. If he's your 6th or 7th man to rely on night in and night out, well, you will be disappointed.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#94 » by esqtvd » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:42 am

NickP wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.




For anyone who's played playground ball, it's so easy to hate on "gunners."

I'm not disagreeing, but I think the problem is the same as in the Lob City days--Jamal and Lou were not the problem, the problem was the dependence on the because the bench sucked such total ass.

NBA players respect the hell out of Jamal and Lou. They're NOT selfish players and when everybody else gets the tightass, Jamal and Lou stand up take the shot--and accept the consequences.

Many or most of the other players hide. They're happy to collect their paychecks and let guys like Jamal and Lou get the credit or blame.


Jamal broke my heart because he really did blow in the playoffs, but Lou's 17.6 points per 36 are not that bad, mostly playing with the second unit. He's been MIA lately and he just let everybody know how much he is needed.

At the moment, Senior, Bev, and Kennard got their money and Lou is about to be kicked out on the street. Lou can win you a gae and they can't, so wtf.

Just telling it from Lou's point of view. Ballmer should have hired me instead of Lee Jenkins as Vice President In Charge of Feelings and Identity. I work cheaper. :wink:

Maybe Lou can hire you to take care of his feelings when he gets traded? :)


I think Lou would prefer to be traded NOW. You're not listening.

At the moment, Senior, Bev, and Kennard got their money and Lou is about to be kicked out on the street. Lou can win you a game and they can't, so wtf.

Just telling it from Lou's point of view. Ballmer should have hired me instead of Lee Jenkins as Vice President In Charge of Feelings and Identity. I work cheaper. :wink:
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#95 » by esqtvd » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:35 am

og15 wrote:I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.

I would love George Hill, but OKC is going to be looking for picks. Rubio would also be nice, but Lou doesn't make a ton of sense on Minnesota, especially in place of Rubio.


og15 wrote:
That's always the argument for the inefficient gunners, that when they get hot, they can win you a game.

It's very true that they can, but the problem is that in the playoffs, then getting hot is usually very few and far between, and if they are playing 25, 26, 27 mpg, it simply doesn't work over a long playoffs run.

Over a playoff run, to have a guy who becomes pretty inefficient, still shoots a good amount, but has a lot of poor games where he might help loose you the lead and the game, but, hey, he can possibly win you that one game when he gets hot.

If that guy is your 10th man who you put in to see if he's hot, and if not, you sit him, it works. If he's your 6th or 7th man to rely on night in and night out, well, you will be disappointed.



I wasn't disagreeing--I should have been clearer. My argument is that when you have a sh*it bench, you cheat with a Jamal or a Lou and win games in the regular season and get seeding.


Then come the playoffs, you hope it works out for the best. Not saying that you should build your second unit around Jamal or Lou. [Or Trez.] YOU HAVE NO SECOND UNIT.

And frankly, Luke and Senior are eating up a big chunk of our salary cap and look like sh*it even on the second unit. That's where I'm going with this, bro.

Will they step up and take the tough shots? I'm not feeling them--at ALL.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#96 » by NickP » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:25 pm

og15 wrote:
NickP wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:I'm still firmly in the "trade Lou" camp. We already know he can score against bad teams in the regular season. But we also know every good team is going to make sure he's switched on them in clutch time because he can't guard anyone. And we know he won't show up in the playoffs with any consistency.

Games like these are why he's still tradeable despite his flaws - he's appealing for treadmill teams that want to increase their ratings because he's still capable of putting on a show against bad defenses. But there's a reason he's usually one of the first players to leave when a team stops treadmilling and starts getting serious (see: Toronto and Houston).

Exactly. I'm not falling for this Lou Williams trap either. I know how this movie ends in the playoffs.
Trade him and get something, anything in return.
I want Lou to play well because it keeps his trade value high. Lou has had multiple situations where his playoff performance has just not been good. He's a career 39/26 player in the playoffs with a 71 game sample size. He's not been efficient as scorer in any playoff run, and his best was his 53% TS in 18-19, so at best, still below average efficiency.

The playoffs are hard for him, and while he can give you a bit more than Jamal could when he's not scoring, he just doesn't give enough.

I'm simply not a big fan of players like him in the post-season. It's nothing against them personally, or against their skills, they just don't tend to have the right skills to help a team through a playoff run unless they are just a situational player. If they are a staple in a rotation, it's a problem.

I would love George Hill, but OKC is going to be looking for picks. Rubio would also be nice, but Lou doesn't make a ton of sense on Minnesota, especially in place of Rubio.

Couldn't agree more about the Lou assessment with respect to the playoffs. His decision making with the ball takes a major hit under pressure.
Don't think we'll get either Rubio or Hill. D Rose seems to be a realistic possibility but you never know.
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Re: Game 11: Bulls (4-6) at Clippers (6-4) 1PM PST 

Post#97 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:27 am

The 2019 playoff series against the Warriors was the perfect example of both living and dying with Lou Williams. His overall series line was fine, but it was made up of some huge games and some real turkeys as well.

I agree with those who say he is not a selfish player, any problems with him have to do with being over-reliant on his scoring.

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