GAME 26: Clippers (17-8) @ Wolves (6-18) 5PM PST Wednesday

[esqtvd]

Your post doesn't make sense. There's no scapegoat for a game that was won, nor was my post about scapegoating anyone.

Being triggered by the reality that Lou has a history of not being a quality high rotation player in the post-season and that he is easier to trade as an expiring contract makes no sense. What exactly are you responding to?

Folks hating on Lou all year. The team wants to dump him--but the coach keeps giving him minutes, doesn't he? Because the problem isn't Lou--he's our best bench player by far. The problem is and always was our dependence on him. Even when Kawhi's out there with this bench the plus/minus is barely even.

I'd say Reggie is actually the one that gets hated on, because hate to me is unfair criticism. Reggie is criticized for just being around, lol.

Sure, Lou might get "hated" on here and there, but if the definition of hate here is acknowledging his limitations, that doesn't make sense. The primary critiques of Lou are just reality, he's a known commodity, there's no new surprise coming from him, there's no next level.

Lou simply has an inescapable history when it comes to playoff performance and defense. We can't put our head in the sand about it because we like him. He's an expriring contract, unless the team plans on re-signing him, which is hard to understand the logic, the only reason to keep him is to believe that he will come through in the post-season. Do you believe he will? He certainly could, but history is not on his side.

If the team didn't extend Kennard, I'd be all for moving him. He's just as poor defensively, but he's not aggressive enough on offense to make up for playing him with other average or below average defenders. He's playing with the aggressiveness he had as a rookie, not the one he has last season.

So you have smaller one year contracts in Jackson and Patterson who can't be traded without permission and can't bring much back. You have Zubac the only reliable other C on the team, so trading him would be dumb. You have injury prone, but best small guard defender Beverley, so trading him only makes sense if an equally good defender comes back which isn't really easy. There's Morris who got a nice contract and might be tougher to move. You have Mr. Premature Extension Kennard who it is hard to gauge what teams would have interest in him at the moment. Then you have 34 year old expiring with a decent contract and known commodity Lou.

On a team that needs more guard playmaking and/or defense and has three below average to poor defensive guards, why is it in any way surprising that Lou's name is the one to consistently come up? If it wasn't, I'd he concerned about the basketball and cap IQ of our fellow Clipper fans. If Kennard didn't get his contract extension, he'd be the one a a nice expiring contract, young, and restricted FA, so the team getting him wouldn't have to lose him. The extension reduced his trade value.

"The problem is our dependence on him", yes, similar to Jamal, the problem is that there are fewer avenues to improve the roster to not depend on Lou without moving him than there are while keeping him. Hence why Lou is the constant trade name. The coach plays him because he's a baller. Lou can put up buckets, he'll help you win RS games. The problem is that Lou is a career 39% FG and 24% 3PT player in the post-season. That's the reality over 71 playoff games. If we take out young Lou, since 27 years old, it's 41% FG and 27% 3PT in 41 games. As a Clipper, 43% FG and 26% 3PT in 19 games.

It's not personal, it's business...

Whining about Lou in the MIDDLE of regular season games serves no purpose. And of course you would move ANY player if it represents an upgrade, so that's pointless to harp on too. I'd also add that when everyone else is crap, shooters like Lou and Jamal got stuck with creating a shot out of nothing as the clock is winding down. It's not always their fault. They were often on the floor with 3 or 4 stiffs. What, Zu is gonna get off a good shot with one second left on the 24? Let's get real.

And FTR--Lou had a very good playoffs vs GSW 2 years ago @ 21.7 ppg, and in his last 3 playoffs although his 3-ball was off, he shot 42.4%, 43.3%, and 42.4% overall, which is quite acceptable. We may well have no choice but to give Lou significant playoff minutes again this year, and whining about it is weak. You cheer for your boyz and you hope for the best, you don't trash them in advance.

[NickP]

Give Lou significant playoff minutes. Words you never want to hear!

[og15]

Folks hating on Lou all year. The team wants to dump him--but the coach keeps giving him minutes, doesn't he? Because the problem isn't Lou--he's our best bench player by far. The problem is and always was our dependence on him. Even when Kawhi's out there with this bench the plus/minus is barely even.

I'd say Reggie is actually the one that gets hated on, because hate to me is unfair criticism. Reggie is criticized for just being around, lol.

Sure, Lou might get "hated" on here and there, but if the definition of hate here is acknowledging his limitations, that doesn't make sense. The primary critiques of Lou are just reality, he's a known commodity, there's no new surprise coming from him, there's no next level.

Lou simply has an inescapable history when it comes to playoff performance and defense. We can't put our head in the sand about it because we like him. He's an expriring contract, unless the team plans on re-signing him, which is hard to understand the logic, the only reason to keep him is to believe that he will come through in the post-season. Do you believe he will? He certainly could, but history is not on his side.

If the team didn't extend Kennard, I'd be all for moving him. He's just as poor defensively, but he's not aggressive enough on offense to make up for playing him with other average or below average defenders. He's playing with the aggressiveness he had as a rookie, not the one he has last season.

So you have smaller one year contracts in Jackson and Patterson who can't be traded without permission and can't bring much back. You have Zubac the only reliable other C on the team, so trading him would be dumb. You have injury prone, but best small guard defender Beverley, so trading him only makes sense if an equally good defender comes back which isn't really easy. There's Morris who got a nice contract and might be tougher to move. You have Mr. Premature Extension Kennard who it is hard to gauge what teams would have interest in him at the moment. Then you have 34 year old expiring with a decent contract and known commodity Lou.

On a team that needs more guard playmaking and/or defense and has three below average to poor defensive guards, why is it in any way surprising that Lou's name is the one to consistently come up? If it wasn't, I'd he concerned about the basketball and cap IQ of our fellow Clipper fans. If Kennard didn't get his contract extension, he'd be the one a a nice expiring contract, young, and restricted FA, so the team getting him wouldn't have to lose him. The extension reduced his trade value.

"The problem is our dependence on him", yes, similar to Jamal, the problem is that there are fewer avenues to improve the roster to not depend on Lou without moving him than there are while keeping him. Hence why Lou is the constant trade name. The coach plays him because he's a baller. Lou can put up buckets, he'll help you win RS games. The problem is that Lou is a career 39% FG and 24% 3PT player in the post-season. That's the reality over 71 playoff games. If we take out young Lou, since 27 years old, it's 41% FG and 27% 3PT in 41 games. As a Clipper, 43% FG and 26% 3PT in 19 games.

It's not personal, it's business...

Whining about Lou in the MIDDLE of regular season games serves no purpose. And of course you would move ANY player if it represents an upgrade, so that's pointless to harp on too. I'd also add that when everyone else is crap, shooters like Lou and Jamal got stuck with creating a shot out of nothing as the clock is winding down. It's not always their fault. They were often on the floor with 3 or 4 stiffs. What, Zu is gonna get off a good shot with one second left on the 24? Let's get real.

And FTR--Lou had a very good playoffs vs GSW 2 years ago @ 21.7 ppg, and in his last 3 playoffs although his 3-ball was off, he shot 42.4%, 43.3%, and 42.4% overall, which is quite acceptable. We may well have no choice but to give Lou significant playoff minutes again this year, and whining about it is weak. You cheer for your boyz and you hope for the best, you don't trash them in advance.

Why doesn't it make sense? Trades are done during the first part of a season, that is exactly the time for people to say that a player needs to be moved. After the deadline, asking for a player to be moved that same season makes no more sense.

One out of nine =/= good argument
Lou had one good playoffs out of 9, that isn't really a good argument, is it? I don't think there's any point of us trying to argue that Lou is a good playoff performer, he isn't.

Low 40 FG% is not good if you aren't making three's. FG% that low is only good if a player is taking and making a lot of three's and/or getting to the line. None of us is unaware of TS% or eFG% these days, no need for us to try and hide anything.

His eFG% and TS%
16-17: 47.5% / 52.8%
17-18: 46.2% / 53.3%
18-19: 46.6% / 51.1%

These are not good in any way, well below average to poor. A player shooting that low TS% is only going to be valuable for winning if they couple that with very good defense, great playmaking, etc. If their role is primarily scorer and they give you that, it's not really good.

In the playoffs, you have stars playing 37-40 mpg. There's only like 10 mpg without the star on the floor, and usually teams will not throw all bench lineups out, so a multi star team will have one star on almost all game. Lou played 342 mins last playoffs, 248 of those minutes (73%) had Kawhi on the court with him. That was the player he shared the court with the most last playoffs. Sayinghis performance is due to playing with stiffs make no sense. Jamal too, he had CP or BG on the court for the majority of his minutes too.

Criticize only who I criticize?
I would buy the "support the players = don't give any criticism or don't suggest any moves should be made" if you didn't selectively choose when to apply this. You're not consistent. You have players you like to criticize, but want to control other people doing so.

You can't say:

"You cheer for your boyz and you hope for the best, you don't trash them in advance."

While a few post ago you say:

Luke looks like a BIG mistake @ 4 years/64 MILLION. He does not even deserve to play at the moment and I doubt he ever will unless he undergoes a testicle transplant.

Kennard is the weakestass player I've seen in a long, long time. If we weren't on the hook for 64 million dollars for his sorry ass he never sees the court, let's be honest here.

This is worse lack of support than the criticism others are giving of Lou . That's way to hypocritical and inconsistent for me to think you are being honest in your second statement about support. If you have favorites, go ahead, but don't veil it under a banner of "we must support the players" while you are trashing another player worse than the critique of the other you are defending from critique.

[Clemenza]

Nobody is picking on Lou. I think the team and coaching staff is trying to make sure that come post season, baring that Lou is still with us, we're not overly depended on him having to have a big game for us to pull out wins and succeed in the playoffs. He's much older now and is kind of a frail guy and the 2nd unit can't be a one trick pony anymore. Its great when he plays well and knock down shots but the team has to be more versatile when the lights get bright in April/May.

[esqtvd]

Whining about Lou in the MIDDLE of regular season games serves no purpose. And of course you would move ANY player if it represents an upgrade, so that's pointless to harp on too. I'd also add that when everyone else is crap, shooters like Lou and Jamal got stuck with creating a shot out of nothing as the clock is winding down. It's not always their fault. They were often on the floor with 3 or 4 stiffs. What, Zu is gonna get off a good shot with one second left on the 24? Let's get real.

And FTR--Lou had a very good playoffs vs GSW 2 years ago @ 21.7 ppg, and in his last 3 playoffs although his 3-ball was off, he shot 42.4%, 43.3%, and 42.4% overall, which is quite acceptable. We may well have no choice but to give Lou significant playoff minutes again this year, and whining about it is weak. You cheer for your boyz and you hope for the best, you don't trash them in advance.

Why doesn't it make sense? Trades are done during the first part of a season, that is exactly the time for people to say that a player needs to be moved. After the deadline, asking for a player to be moved that same season makes no more sense.

One out of nine =/= good argument
Lou had one good playoffs out of 9, that isn't really a good argument, is it? I don't think there's any point of us trying to argue that Lou is a good playoff performer, he isn't.

Low 40 FG% is not good if you aren't making three's. FG% that low is only good if a player is taking and making a lot of three's and/or getting to the line. None of us is unaware of TS% or eFG% these days, no need for us to try and hide anything.

His eFG% and TS%
16-17: 47.5% / 52.8%
17-18: 46.2% / 53.3%
18-19: 46.6% / 51.1%

These are not good in any way, well below average to poor. A player shooting that low TS% is only going to be valuable for winning if they couple that with very good defense, great playmaking, etc. If their role is primarily scorer and they give you that, it's not really good.

In the playoffs, you have stars playing 37-40 mpg. There's only like 10 mpg without the star on the floor, and usually teams will not throw all bench lineups out, so a multi star team will have one star on almost all game. Lou played 342 mins last playoffs, 248 of those minutes (73%) had Kawhi on the court with him. That was the player he shared the court with the most last playoffs. Bosnia his performance in playing with stiffs make no sense. Jamal too, he has CP or BG on the court for the majority of his minutes too.

Criticize only who I criticize?
I would buy the "support the players = don't give any criticism or don't suggest any moves should be made" if you didn't selectively choose when to apply this. You're not consistent. You have players you like to criticize, but want to control other people doing so.

You can't say:

"You cheer for your boyz and you hope for the best, you don't trash them in advance."

While a few post ago you say:

Luke looks like a BIG mistake @ 4 years/64 MILLION. He does not even deserve to play at the moment and I doubt he ever will unless he undergoes a testicle transplant.

Kennard is the weakestass player I've seen in a long, long time. If we weren't on the hook for 64 million dollars for his sorry ass he never sees the court, let's be honest here.

This is worse lack of support than the criticism others are giving of Lou . That's way to hypocritical and inconsistent for me to think you are being honest in your second statement about support. If you have favorites, go ahead, but don't veil it under a banner of "we must support the players" while you are trashing another player worse than the critique of the other you are defending from critique.

I don't bag on Kennard during the game or in EVERY POST. And Coach agrees with me--look at the plus/minus and look at who Coach is giving minutes to. Kennard IS unplayable, while Ty is giving Lou 25 mpg lately. Lou is clearly NOT unplayable. He has the best plus/minus of all the subs. Damn right he's being scapegoated. You should worry about Zubac, Kennard and Mann, all who are in MINUS on a team that's near the top of the league in the plus.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


As for the playoffs, the last 3 years is far more relevant than career figures. Lou even had one excellent playoffs, only 2 years ago. Nobody's saying an upgrade wouldn't be appreciated, but you yourself have admitted that an upgrade already would have happened if there were one out there.

Lou played much of January through a bruised hip, which undoubtedly affected his game, because he's looked downright good for the past week or two. We may be stuck with him for the playoffs. People can piss and moan about that fact or as I said, hope for the best.

Hell, I think Ty has to still keep running Kennard out there when and where he can, and hope the light goes on. We need all hands on deck. I'm not gonna dog Kennard every time he steps on the floor. That's BS.