Lou Williams: Trade or not to trade?

[SnoopDub]

Lou will is having a down year. Averaging 12 ppg.
People expect him to have atleast 15 to 16 ppg as a sixth man. Also in the playoff bubble, he was cold.

He can be a microwave scorer at times but he does not show up when he needs to. This is a big concern for the team.

Should the clips trade Lou Will or not?

If they do, which player should they get in return?
His salary is 8M.

[NickP]

I couldn't care less if Lou was averaging 20. He's as useful as a rock in the playoffs. We need to give Mann all of Lou's minutes and get him ready for the playoffs. Mann is way better than Lou on the defensive end.
So yes. Trade Lou.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Lou has his nights, but they can play very well- if not better- without him. Reggie Jackson may be a better overall player than Lou actually and tends to do better when given a larger role. I like Lou- he seems like a good person, but the Clippers should try to see what they can get for him.

[SK21209]

Trade him for George Hill and call it a day. I like Lou, he's been important to the franchise for the last few years and by all accounts is well liked by the team, but the evidence of him not being an effective playoff player is overwhelming and that's all that matters at this point. We're also a Lou trade away from having a rock solid 8 man playoff rotation of two-way players:

Hill/Bev
PG
Kawhi
Batum/Morris
Ibaka/Zubac

Kennard and Reggie can be excised from the playoff rotation if need be. I actually wouldn't mind taking on Cousins as a third center, we could use an emergency option there.

[Clemenza]

No trade imo simply because I don't think we get something back that actually improves us. It can't be a trade just for the hell of making a trade. The bench play from last night was great which means we can maybe have the best of both worlds- A good bench when Lou is on and also a good bench when Lou is off baring that Ty Lue sits him if he's not making shots and goes with the second unit we saw again the Wizards last night.

[NickP]

No trade imo simply because I don't think we get something back that actually improves us. It can't be a trade just for the hell of making a trade. The bench play from last night was great which means we can maybe have the best of both worlds- A good bench when Lou is on and also a good bench when Lou is off baring that Ty Lue sits him if he's not making shots and goes with the second unit we saw again the Wizards last night.

But until Lou is on the team coaches will play him given he's a veteran and that's not good in the playoffs. I get you point of not getting anything of value in return. I'd rather do that and waive that player but play Lou in the playoffs.

[Clemenza]

No trade imo simply because I don't think we get something back that actually improves us. It can't be a trade just for the hell of making a trade. The bench play from last night was great which means we can maybe have the best of both worlds- A good bench when Lou is on and also a good bench when Lou is off baring that Ty Lue sits him if he's not making shots and goes with the second unit we saw again the Wizards last night.

But until Lou is on the team coaches will play him given he's a veteran and that's not good in the playoffs. I get you point of not getting anything of value in return. I'd rather do that and waive that player but play Lou in the playoffs.

I here you.. and that's the thing if we keep him. If he's not having good game will Lue sit him down or keep playing him cause he's a vet. That's the million dollar question. But my gut is telling me that he sits if he's not hitting shots in this upcoming playoffs. Too much is at stake these days to bury your head in the sand and do a Doc Rivers "I like my guys" move.

[MartinToVaught]

No trade imo simply because I don't think we get something back that actually improves us.

Moving on from Lou alone is addition by subtraction.

[UnFadeable21]

Trade Lou Will for Rondo straight up

[esqtvd]

This is based on a false premise--Lou's overall numbers are meh because he had a lousy January--BTW playing through a painfully bruised hip because Beverley was out--but he had a fantastic February including 9 games in a row of 15+ points.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2799/lou-williams

Code: Select all

27 mpg
17.5 ppg
46% FG
39.5% 3-pt
3.1 rpg
5.3 apg
1.2 STEALS PER GAME

Don't bury him just yet.

[NickP]

This is based on a false premise--Lou's overall numbers are meh because he had a lousy January--BTW playing through a painfully bruised hip because Beverley was out--but he had a fantastic February including 9 games in a row of 15+ points.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2799/lou-williams

Code: Select all

27 mpg
17.5 ppg
46% FG
39.5% 3-pt
3.1 rpg
5.3 apg
1.2 STEALS PER GAME

Don't bury him just yet.

Sure. Let's give him say 2 more playoffs full of suckage and no defense?

[esqtvd]

Lou had a excellent 2018-19 playoffs and has made a fool of a lot of people already this year

[donemilio21]

It's easy to say "let's trade someone because he is not playing well"
Can you get a better player in return without giving up any future draft assets ?

[NickP]

It's easy to say "let's trade someone because he is not playing well"
Can you get a better player in return without giving up any future draft assets ?

I'm perfectly ok with this. But as long as Lou stays on the roster it's fools gold. As long as Lue understands this I'm ok.

[Wammy Giveaway]

As much as the Clippers want to value their loyalty to William, the reality is... he's a bad fit. But not because of immaturity, but history. Let me explain.

The Revenge Of The Role Players, 2018-19 season. There were zero All-Stars, Griffin and Paul were traded the year before, Jordan left in free agency. It was rumored that the Clippers would tank for a no. 1 draft pick. Without an All-Star, with another year of missing the playoffs, Williams exploded. And he came off the bench, too, making him a unanimous Sixth Man Of The Award winner.

But being a Sixth Man on a team with zero All-Stars means automatic failure. Only four times in NBA history has a team ever won a championship with an active Sixth Man award winner. No team in NBA history has ever won a championship without having a single All-Star on the roster. Furthermore, teams are 0-4 in playoff series won when they have zero All-Stars. Point blank, you must have an All-Star to have a chance at winning a playoff series. Look at the playoffs going as far back to its inauguration in 1951. Of the eleven teams that existed back then, only the Washington Capitols did not field an All-Star; fittingly, they missed the playoffs. The eventual NBA champion, Rochester Royals, did have an All-Star - one starter and one alternate to be exact.

The Clippers already have the required pieces to win a championship, starting with having an All-Star (and a better coach, but that's another story). The other is, they can't win the Sixth Man award. Get that, and the Clippers are guaranteed another 2nd round exit. Historically, the Clippers are known for developing role players that become vital pieces to other championship teams. But after their second and quickest 3-1 collapse in NBA history, this is the one year where they have to take a different strategy. It will cost them a shot at other individual accolades, but winning a championship requires making sacrifices that are intended to test your ego, character and ability resolve. It may require the Clippers trading Williams for a better chemistry fit.

I think George Hill is going to be inevitable. He played with Paul George with the Pacers before, and Lue is banking on familiarity like Doc did, but the key difference between Lue and Doc is Hill being a complimentary player to George versus Smith defeating the Clippers in their first 3-1 collapse in an act of revenge. They also know that the playoffs is a starters game because the starters play heavy minutes in the postseason whereas the bench is less relied on. Given William's performance in the playoffs with All-Stars save for his contributions in the Revenge Of The Role Players season, I think he's the odd man out.

[SK21209]

As much as the Clippers want to value their loyalty to William, the reality is... he's a bad fit. But not because of immaturity, but history. Let me explain.

The Revenge Of The Role Players, 2018-19 season. There were zero All-Stars, Griffin and Paul were traded the year before, Jordan left in free agency. It was rumored that the Clippers would tank for a no. 1 draft pick. Without an All-Star, with another year of missing the playoffs, Williams exploded. And he came off the bench, too, making him a unanimous Sixth Man Of The Award winner.

But being a Sixth Man on a team with zero All-Stars means automatic failure. Only four times in NBA history has a team ever won a championship with an active Sixth Man award winner. No team in NBA history has ever won a championship without having a single All-Star on the roster. Furthermore, teams are 0-4 in playoff series won when they have zero All-Stars. Point blank, you must have an All-Star to have a chance at winning a playoff series. Look at the playoffs going as far back to its inauguration in 1951. Of the eleven teams that existed back then, only the Washington Capitols did not field an All-Star; fittingly, they missed the playoffs. The eventual NBA champion, Rochester Royals, did have an All-Star - one starter and one alternate to be exact.

The Clippers already have the required pieces to win a championship, starting with having an All-Star (and a better coach, but that's another story). The other is, they can't win the Sixth Man award. Get that, and the Clippers are guaranteed another 2nd round exit. Historically, the Clippers are known for developing role players that become vital pieces to other championship teams. But after their second and quickest 3-1 collapse in NBA history, this is the one year where they have to take a different strategy. It will cost them a shot at other individual accolades, but winning a championship requires making sacrifices that are intended to test your ego, character and ability resolve. It may require the Clippers trading Williams for a better chemistry fit.

I think George Hill is going to be inevitable. He played with Paul George with the Pacers before, and Lue is banking on familiarity like Doc did, but the key difference between Lue and Doc is Hill being a complimentary player to George versus Smith defeating the Clippers in their first 3-1 collapse in an act of revenge. They also know that the playoffs is a starters game because the starters play heavy minutes in the postseason whereas the bench is less relied on. Given William's performance in the playoffs with All-Stars save for his contributions in the Revenge Of The Role Players season, I think he's the odd man out.

This is the key point. One of PG or Kawhi will be on the court all 48 minutes in the playoffs and there will be 30+ minutes with them both on the court. Any player that can't fit around those two can't really help us in the playoffs. Looking at our lineup numbers, Lue has basically given up on every playing Lou with both of those guys as you just don't need his skillset when they're both playing. Having Morris out there with one of PG or Kawhi is enough to get by in those minutes when one is resting from a purse scoring standpoint. I'm for doing the George Hill trade as well.

[madmaxmedia]

Lou is a great asset when KG or PG is out IMO. In the playoffs he can really be hot and cold, but that's how he is in the regular season too. FWIW in the 2018/19 series against the Warriors he absolutely carried the team to at least 1 of our wins.

There's obviously absolutely no reason to try to 'dump' him, but if we can package some picks then maybe we can trade him for a better fit. Lou has been a known quantity for a long time, the only reason to really harp on his negatives are in terms of hoping to trade him to find that better fit for a healthy Clipper playoff run.

[esqtvd]

The Lou-Zu-Senior-Beverley-George lineup is plus+3.8. The Lou-Zu-Senior-Mann-Kawhi likeup is plus+3.6. Not bad. For comparison the #1 lineup of Ibaka-Batum-Bev-George-Kawhi is plus+5.8.

Ty's getting it sorted out. Lou's a depreciating asset but he's still one of our top 8 players. You get what you can out of him.

___________________________

ADD: The internet says the Clippers are interested in Kyle Lowry but then again the Clippers are mentioned every time somebody's available and Lou's $8M salary is certain to be needed in any move. He knows it, we know it, the whole world knows it.

[donemilio21]

We have only three guys on our roster who can go out and score 30 points when needed, and one of them is Lou.
PG and Kawhi have missed a combined 17 games so far this year. Who can guarantee neither will miss any during playoffs? We need a guy who can score when needed.
That alone should make it obvious that trading Lou is not a good move, unless we are somehow getting Lowry or Oladipo in return.

[Kelphus]

When team was shorthanded just a few weeks ago, Lou Williams stepped up big time as a starter.

He had a crummy January, but he is an asset. You can't ignore his contribution in the last few weeks.

Blaming Lou WIll for playoff issues is unreasonable, given the many other obvious issues in play.