poultryfan wrote:I know it's not happening but missing the playoffs would be beyond comical. I don't think I'd have the heart to watch another Clippers game again.
poultryfan wrote:og15 wrote:MartinToVaught wrote:We're only, what, 2 games up on the 8th seed? Just making the playoffs at all might be an overachievement for this joke of a team.
8th seed is still 4 games back, but no one is afraid of missing the playoffs, but the goal isn’t simply to make the playoffs. If this team isn’t a top 2 or at minimum top 3 record, it would simply be a sign that they are not a contender.
I know it's not happening but missing the playoffs would be beyond comical. I don't think I'd have the heart to watch another Clippers game again.
It's tough to consider them true contenders right now, especially after tonight's game. Basically looks like a three-man race between Lakers, Nets, and Jazz with the Clippers dropping to the darkhorse/borderline contenders tier ie. Bucks, Suns, Nuggets, and Sixers. And at this point they're probably somewhere at the bottom of that list.
RingColluder wrote:TheNewEra wrote:RingColluder wrote:
I mean Morris needs to start over Batum in the future. Sick of Batum's **** and his wide open missed 3's. He can help the team defensively great for the 2nd team but Morris is 3x the player he is on BOTH ends of the court.
Thats fine for Zu on the last rebound, but he had some absolutely horrid stretches on the court including his last few minutes before getting taken out in the 4th. Horrid. How not a single person mentioned that in this thread is remarkable to me.
We need a PG and a legitimate center. Zu will move to 3rd string in the Kennard role. I'd even try Fi at this point.
Horrid stretches when he was a +20 and I thought you loved that stat?
Um, what? When have I ever said I loved +/-?
Did I get to the conclusion that one is real and one is not? Where? I’m saying that his actual level of player is in between those two, which means he’s an above average performer and many things support that, but he’s neither bad not is he some super defensive anchor.RingColluder wrote:og15 wrote:Zubac hasn’t regressed, people are just not doing a good job separating a players performance from the lineups they play with. Zubac played almost all his minutes with the starting players last season, and this season he plays almost all his minutes with the bench. Playing with the starters where the best defenders were made him look better on defense, and playing with the best offensive players made any offensive deficiencies less important.RingColluder wrote:
Totally disagree. Do we really need to go over every single possession step by step in the 2nd half or is this just some biased argument stemming from last year? I don't want to get argumentative, but it might have to come to a point where I'm literally tracking possession by possession the issues in his game. He was constantly getting lost on switches and people were always driving to the basket. We saw on the last timeout Ty Lue and Lou Williams were upset at him for multiple possessions and could even hear Ty Lue yelling for Zu to get in position at one point.
Held his own on offense?!?! We barely see 1 or 2 successful post moves from him successfully. The one bright spot was some of the back and forth with him and Kennard. They will fit well together on the 3rd lineup when/if we get a big man.
I agree Ibaka was very invisible this game as well.
Question though: Do you believe Zu has played well this year? Do you thin the has regressed? I need to understand what level of support he has on this board since it appears Martin has given up on him. It's astonishing to me people actually believe he can provide worthwhile minutes this year.
I 100% agree with this, but I'm not sure how you get to the conclusion one is the real Zu and the other is not. Anyone would look good playing with 2 All Stars PG and Kawhi. In my view he's getting totally exposed now on the 2nd team specifically his offensive game.
Who do you blame them on the 2nd team for the issues with the team if not Zu?
TheNewEra wrote:RingColluder wrote:og15 wrote:That last rebound had little to do with Zubac, he had his man pinned, and a guard came and tipped the ball from behind out of his eyesight. That’s on whomever was next to Westbrook and was supposed to put a body on him and decided not to do so.
Morris was out for this game....
I mean Morris needs to start over Batum in the future. Sick of Batum's **** and his wide open missed 3's. He can help the team defensively great for the 2nd team but Morris is 3x the player he is on BOTH ends of the court.
Thats fine for Zu on the last rebound, but he had some absolutely horrid stretches on the court including his last few minutes before getting taken out in the 4th. Horrid. How not a single person mentioned that in this thread is remarkable to me.
We need a PG and a legitimate center. Zu will move to 3rd string in the Kennard role. I'd even try Fi at this point.
Horrid stretches when he was a +20 and I thought you loved that stat?
Are We Having Fun Yet?og15 wrote:Davis has been out, but Lakers are 3-7 in their last 10 compared to 4-6 for the Clippers. Things aren’t going so great for them either.
og15 wrote:Did I get to the conclusion that one is real and one is not? Where? I’m saying that his actual level of player is in between those two, which means he’s an above average performer and many things support that, but he’s neither bad not is he some super defensive anchor.RingColluder wrote:og15 wrote:Zubac hasn’t regressed, people are just not doing a good job separating a players performance from the lineups they play with. Zubac played almost all his minutes with the starting players last season, and this season he plays almost all his minutes with the bench. Playing with the starters where the best defenders were made him look better on defense, and playing with the best offensive players made any offensive deficiencies less important.
I 100% agree with this, but I'm not sure how you get to the conclusion one is the real Zu and the other is not. Anyone would look good playing with 2 All Stars PG and Kawhi. In my view he's getting totally exposed now on the 2nd team specifically his offensive game.
Who do you blame them on the 2nd team for the issues with the team if not Zu?
The whole problem is trying to blame one person as if the whole units issues is simply about one person, it isn’t.
Getting exposed as what? Not a star? Who thought he was? Zubac is an above average rotation C performing like that.
esqtvd wrote:TheNewEra wrote:RingColluder wrote:
I mean Morris needs to start over Batum in the future. Sick of Batum's **** and his wide open missed 3's. He can help the team defensively great for the 2nd team but Morris is 3x the player he is on BOTH ends of the court.
Thats fine for Zu on the last rebound, but he had some absolutely horrid stretches on the court including his last few minutes before getting taken out in the 4th. Horrid. How not a single person mentioned that in this thread is remarkable to me.
We need a PG and a legitimate center. Zu will move to 3rd string in the Kennard role. I'd even try Fi at this point.
Horrid stretches when he was a +20 and I thought you loved that stat?
That's me, lol. I welcome our new friend Mr. Colluder as a break from shi*iting all over Lou every time he misses a shot or turns the ball over and we get down by 8 and blaming Doc Rivers for everything else.
Zu is struggling this season but he is not why we lost. Mr. New Era is right--although its a noisy stat, when somebody's plus+20 when others are minus-20 maybe you should point the finger elsewhere.
Just like last game--somebody send a search party out for Ibaka [minus-22, 0 points] and Batum [minus-23, 9 points on 2-10 shooting]. Their legs look dead--they look walking dead--hopefully the All-Star break will help. But these are older players and 30 mpg is their upper limit and let's add Pat Bev too.
So we've got to get NBA playoff minutes elsewhere--which is why Ty gave the back of the rotation free rein tonight. I'm happy Kennard had 14 points and a plus+23 but frankly, this was a playground game and we lost to the best playground player in the NBA Russell Westbrook. This was sloppy crap basketball, the kind Kennard excelled at playing with the going-nowhere Pistons. Tonight tells us nothing about anything.
Except Serge and Batum need a rest. Bigtime.
Are We Having Fun Yet?Roscoe Sheed wrote:Something is definitely wrong with this team for sure, but it would be nice for them to get 10 consecutive games or so with a healthy in tact roster. Kind of reminds me of last season when they had to deal with constant injuries and then finally seemed to get into a good groove before the pandemic hit.
On a side note, the Clippers definitely deserved to lose tonight considering how poorly they played in the 4th quarter, but it would be nice if one of these close calls would fall in their favor in terms of the refs. It's like they can't catch a break- most of the time if you hit a guy across the face they call a flagrant regardless of intent.
Roscoe Sheed wrote:On a side note, the Clippers definitely deserved to lose tonight considering how poorly they played in the 4th quarter, but it would be nice if one of these close calls would fall in their favor in terms of the refs. It's like they can't catch a break- most of the time if you hit a guy across the face they call a flagrant regardless of intent.
Roscoe Sheed wrote:Something is definitely wrong with this team for sure, but it would be nice for them to get 10 consecutive games or so with a healthy in tact roster. Kind of reminds me of last season when they had to deal with constant injuries and then finally seemed to get into a good groove before the pandemic hit.
Are We Having Fun Yet?
esqtvd wrote:TheNewEra wrote:RingColluder wrote:
I mean Morris needs to start over Batum in the future. Sick of Batum's **** and his wide open missed 3's. He can help the team defensively great for the 2nd team but Morris is 3x the player he is on BOTH ends of the court.
Thats fine for Zu on the last rebound, but he had some absolutely horrid stretches on the court including his last few minutes before getting taken out in the 4th. Horrid. How not a single person mentioned that in this thread is remarkable to me.
We need a PG and a legitimate center. Zu will move to 3rd string in the Kennard role. I'd even try Fi at this point.
Horrid stretches when he was a +20 and I thought you loved that stat?
That's me, lol. I welcome our new friend Mr. Colluder as a break from shi*iting all over Lou every time he misses a shot or turns the ball over and we get down by 8 and blaming Doc Rivers for everything else.
Zu is struggling this season but he is not why we lost. Mr. New Era is right--although its a noisy stat, when somebody's plus+20 when others are minus-20 maybe you should point the finger elsewhere.
Just like last game--somebody send a search party out for Ibaka [minus-22, 0 points] and Batum [minus-23, 9 points on 2-10 shooting]. Their legs look dead--they look walking dead--hopefully the All-Star break will help. But these are older players and 30 mpg is their upper limit and let's add Pat Bev too.
So we've got to get NBA playoff minutes elsewhere--which is why Ty gave the back of the rotation free rein tonight. I'm happy Kennard had 14 points and a plus+23 but frankly, this was a playground game and we lost to the best playground player in the NBA Russell Westbrook. This was sloppy crap basketball, the kind Kennard excelled at playing with the going-nowhere Pistons. Tonight tells us nothing about anything.
Except Serge and Batum need a rest. Bigtime.
Roscoe Sheed wrote:Something is definitely wrong with this team for sure, but it would be nice for them to get 10 consecutive games or so with a healthy in tact roster. Kind of reminds me of last season when they had to deal with constant injuries and then finally seemed to get into a good groove before the pandemic hit.
On a side note, the Clippers definitely deserved to lose tonight considering how poorly they played in the 4th quarter, but it would be nice if one of these close calls would fall in their favor in terms of the refs. It's like they can't catch a break- most of the time if you hit a guy across the face they call a flagrant regardless of intent.
esqtvd wrote:Roscoe Sheed wrote:On a side note, the Clippers definitely deserved to lose tonight considering how poorly they played in the 4th quarter, but it would be nice if one of these close calls would fall in their favor in terms of the refs. It's like they can't catch a break- most of the time if you hit a guy across the face they call a flagrant regardless of intent.
Doc works the refs bigtime. Ty is invisible. You don't know what you got 'til its gone.
2019-2020 Clippers #1 in FTAs, Sixers #22
2020-2021 Sixers #1 in FTAs, Clippers #28
you could look it upRoscoe Sheed wrote:Something is definitely wrong with this team for sure, but it would be nice for them to get 10 consecutive games or so with a healthy in tact roster. Kind of reminds me of last season when they had to deal with constant injuries and then finally seemed to get into a good groove before the pandemic hit.
You could look that up too. Trezz was garbage in the bubble but won 6th Man of the Year for what he did before the pandemic hit. The team COLLAPSED [incl Kawhi and PG] when Trezz couldn't perform in the playoffs.
RingColluder wrote:og15 wrote:Did I get to the conclusion that one is real and one is not? Where? I’m saying that his actual level of player is in between those two, which means he’s an above average performer and many things support that, but he’s neither bad not is he some super defensive anchor.RingColluder wrote:
I 100% agree with this, but I'm not sure how you get to the conclusion one is the real Zu and the other is not. Anyone would look good playing with 2 All Stars PG and Kawhi. In my view he's getting totally exposed now on the 2nd team specifically his offensive game.
Who do you blame them on the 2nd team for the issues with the team if not Zu?
The whole problem is trying to blame one person as if the whole units issues is simply about one person, it isn’t.
Getting exposed as what? Not a star? Who thought he was? Zubac is an above average rotation C performing like that.
You would know better than me, but I coudl have sworn people on this board were talking about Zu's all star potential on the board last year.
And he is a below average performer who looked like an average player (with a decent ceiling) last year playing with stars. He has regressed. He is imo a 3rd string center on a supposed contending team not even close to a starter or even 2nd string caliber. Perhaps on a lottery team he can do very well as a backup but we saw even Robin Lopez take him to town multiple times tonight.
Are issues are strong rim protection and PG. Zu is 50% of that but I think he'll look much better playing w Batum on the 2dn team not Morris.
madmaxmedia wrote:RingColluder wrote:og15 wrote:Did I get to the conclusion that one is real and one is not? Where? I’m saying that his actual level of player is in between those two, which means he’s an above average performer and many things support that, but he’s neither bad not is he some super defensive anchor.
The whole problem is trying to blame one person as if the whole units issues is simply about one person, it isn’t.
Getting exposed as what? Not a star? Who thought he was? Zubac is an above average rotation C performing like that.
You would know better than me, but I coudl have sworn people on this board were talking about Zu's all star potential on the board last year.
And he is a below average performer who looked like an average player (with a decent ceiling) last year playing with stars. He has regressed. He is imo a 3rd string center on a supposed contending team not even close to a starter or even 2nd string caliber. Perhaps on a lottery team he can do very well as a backup but we saw even Robin Lopez take him to town multiple times tonight.
Are issues are strong rim protection and PG. Zu is 50% of that but I think he'll look much better playing w Batum on the 2dn team not Morris.
People (including me) were excited about his potential for improvement. But absolutely no one considered him any sort of potential all star, even if only for the fact that his style of big man is totally outdated in today's NBA.
RingColluder wrote:madmaxmedia wrote:RingColluder wrote:
You would know better than me, but I coudl have sworn people on this board were talking about Zu's all star potential on the board last year.
And he is a below average performer who looked like an average player (with a decent ceiling) last year playing with stars. He has regressed. He is imo a 3rd string center on a supposed contending team not even close to a starter or even 2nd string caliber. Perhaps on a lottery team he can do very well as a backup but we saw even Robin Lopez take him to town multiple times tonight.
Are issues are strong rim protection and PG. Zu is 50% of that but I think he'll look much better playing w Batum on the 2dn team not Morris.
People (including me) were excited about his potential for improvement. But absolutely no one considered him any sort of potential all star, even if only for the fact that his style of big man is totally outdated in today's NBA.
I specifically remember multiple times hearing the words "All star" and Zu on this board. Is there an easy search button? LOL
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