ImageImageImageImageImage

A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership

Moderators: og15, TrueLAfan, QRich3

ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 15,323
And1: 840
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#1 » by ecuhus1981 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:38 am

Hello everyone, I'm a curious Nets fan and I come in peace. I view you guys as our worst possible postseason matchup. Y'all are truly elite at both ends, with proven 1v1 bucket getters, and ace defenders to specifically neutralize our best weapons. If we are lucky enough to reach the Finals, I think you guys would pose the toughest challenge for us of any team out West.

My biggest internal concern with the Clippers is the same concern I had with Toronto 2 seasons ago, and before that San Antonio. Kawhi's latest postgame comments (recent stretch of play is "very concerning") don't seem to help the situation. He's such a reclusive dude, he says so little to the media, that when he says something this pointed, it echoes. I also feel like he throws more of these verbal jabs when he's in a walk year. Now, I don't expect him to leave LAC this summer, but is he using the threat of his free agency as leverage? How can you demand consistency from your team, when you have one foot out the door?

Get me right, Leonard is one of the very best players in the league. He has gone toe to toe with LBJ, KD and others, and come out victorious. His leadership bona fides are not in question. However, in those pervious spots, he had institutional leadership that out-ranked him, whether Duncan or Lowry. They weren't the statistical leader like Kawhi, but they ran the locker room, so KL's withdrawn, moody nature was not the overriding force. Does he have a voice to drown him out with the Clippers?

I wanted to gain insight directly from Clippers fans. How does Leonard's leadership style feel to you? Does he seem to rally the troops in moments like this? Is there a longer tenured veteran, maybe Pat or Lou, who adds that element? Thanks in advance.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
Roscoe Sheed
General Manager
Posts: 8,577
And1: 2,340
Joined: May 01, 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#2 » by Roscoe Sheed » Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:20 pm

He definitely isn't a very vocal leader- he essentially leads by example. It just doesn't seem to be in his realm of personality traits to be a vocal leader.

I don't think he is trying to hold the franchise hostage by not extending his contract- it has something to do with the CBA- he can earn a lot more money if he signs the extension after his current contract expires, unlike PG who could max out before expiration due to stipulations I don't specifically remember. He may leave if he is frustrated enough or is very concerned about the future, but he isn't using it for leverage.
User avatar
madmaxmedia
General Manager
Posts: 8,588
And1: 3,982
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Location: SoCal

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#3 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:38 pm

I don’t think he’s really a leader type at all, but not everyone is no matter how good they are.

I think you can call those guys leaders by example, but I don’t think the term really fits Kawhi. If you’re leading by any method, you are taking that mantle on your shoulders, assuming some responsibility for the mood, energy, and effort of the team. I don’t think Kawhi does that. To be honest I’m not sure PG is either, but of the 2 he seems more fit to do it.
Captain Ballmer
Junior
Posts: 482
And1: 334
Joined: Jul 14, 2015
Location: Istanbul
     

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#4 » by Captain Ballmer » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:55 pm

There was a movie named Troy from 2004. Achillies was the main character, perfect greek soldier on the battlefield. Inspirational and victorious. But he was silent as soon as the battle is over, isolated from the army&leaders but his own group. Other soldiers feared and respected him regardless. Kawhi is like Achillies.

But at the end when trojans get to upper hand against the greeks It was Odysseus to keep that Army&Generals&Kings together. It was Odysseus to find to solution to get the victory with famous horse. He was the brain and heart. Odysseus are in many shapes(D. Green, K.Lowry, M.Smart, Ginobili) and Kawhi is the opposite of that.
Sam Cassell, Cuttino Mobley, Shaun Livingston, Corey Maggette, Chris Kaman.
Clemenza
Analyst
Posts: 3,101
And1: 2,233
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#5 » by Clemenza » Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:02 pm

He's a great player but needs one or two other dudes on the team to play the leader and get the troops fired up.. then he can just be himself in the quiet role and shine in games. We're missing that QB
User avatar
esqtvd
Head Coach
Posts: 6,208
And1: 1,556
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#6 » by esqtvd » Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:44 pm

Clemenza wrote:He's a great player but needs one or two other dudes on the team to play the leader and get the troops fired up.. then he can just be himself in the quiet role and shine in games. We're missing that QB



This is why we're overpaying Beverley for limited production. You can't argue our record with him [fantastic] and without him [under .500]. The front office got that one right.

LeBron is the undisputed leader, no confusion--when he wants to dominate the game, he can. When he turns it over to AD with the implicit command to take and make the shot, AD obeys without hesitation. The Clippers have no such chain of command. [Neither did Lob City.]

Kawhi would rather be the straw that stirs the drink, which he has always been, either with Kyle Lowry or Parker/Duncan. As a leader, PG is not up to their standard--he too is the drink-stirring type...
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
User avatar
madmaxmedia
General Manager
Posts: 8,588
And1: 3,982
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Location: SoCal

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#7 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:20 pm

Of course, not being a leader doesn't mean you're a bad teammate. I don't think a bad teammate gets his team fired up like this:

Read on Twitter
Roscoe Sheed
General Manager
Posts: 8,577
And1: 2,340
Joined: May 01, 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#8 » by Roscoe Sheed » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:37 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:He's a great player but needs one or two other dudes on the team to play the leader and get the troops fired up.. then he can just be himself in the quiet role and shine in games. We're missing that QB



This is why we're overpaying Beverley for limited production. You can't argue our record with him [fantastic] and without him [under .500]. The front office got that one right.

LeBron is the undisputed leader, no confusion--when he wants to dominate the game, he can. When he turns it over to AD with the implicit command to take and make the shot, AD obeys without hesitation. The Clippers have no such chain of command. [Neither did Lob City.]

Kawhi would rather be the straw that stirs the drink, which he has always been, either with Kyle Lowry or Parker/Duncan. As a leader, PG is not up to their standard--he too is the drink-stirring type...

I think CP3 was the leader of "Lob City" Clippers, but Blake and DJ didn't necessarily embrace him because they were there before him
Clemenza
Analyst
Posts: 3,101
And1: 2,233
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: California
   

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#9 » by Clemenza » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:19 pm

Roscoe Sheed wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:He's a great player but needs one or two other dudes on the team to play the leader and get the troops fired up.. then he can just be himself in the quiet role and shine in games. We're missing that QB



This is why we're overpaying Beverley for limited production. You can't argue our record with him [fantastic] and without him [under .500]. The front office got that one right.

LeBron is the undisputed leader, no confusion--when he wants to dominate the game, he can. When he turns it over to AD with the implicit command to take and make the shot, AD obeys without hesitation. The Clippers have no such chain of command. [Neither did Lob City.]

Kawhi would rather be the straw that stirs the drink, which he has always been, either with Kyle Lowry or Parker/Duncan. As a leader, PG is not up to their standard--he too is the drink-stirring type...

I think CP3 was the leader of "Lob City" Clippers, but Blake and DJ didn't necessarily embrace him because they were there before him

Blake and CP3's games didn't mesh as well as their personalities
Wammy Giveaway
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,550
And1: 538
Joined: Jul 30, 2013
Contact:

The Clipper's Rabbit Hole 

Post#10 » by Wammy Giveaway » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:25 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:[Leonard is] such a reclusive dude, he says so little to the media, that when he says something this pointed, it echoes.


Leonard knows that everything you say on the record can be twisted into an unintended narrative, or something that could force his team into an instant loss. He feels that the media, who is known for their clickbating headlines in the interest of making money, can sometimes be in cahoots with the team he's faced against. By saying nothing or very little, he prevents the media from turning his own quotes against him. He learned this from Tim Duncan, a master of psychology who understands the needs and wants of a person's ego.

What makes the Spurs special is their ability to play for the greater good, and I'm not just talking championships here. Three of the Spurs championships involved some kind of moral crisis with the league. In 1999, the NBA just got out of a lockout where players and owners argued over who gets the most money, and the Spurs took advantage of that pettiness to remind the league what basketball was truly about. In the 2004-05 season, Ron Artest ran into the stands to punch a fan who tossed a can of beer at his face, causing a domino effect throughout the palace, resulting in the Malice; the Spurs went on to win the title to prove that basketball is not violent. In 2014, an audio recording of Donald Sterling's racist remarks landed in the hands of TMZ, his words nearly derailing the Clipper's 1st round matchup with Warriors; Spurs would go on to win the title, ensuring that racism and bigotry will never win (the fact that seven different countries were represented in their rematch vs. Heat is icing on the cake). They are called the Good Samaritan Spurs for a reason.

Over the years, even going as far back to Sterling's first year of ownership, the Clippers were always playing for the wrong reasons, usually selfish. Getting revenge or wanting to be loved, both stark representations of the disgraced former owner. Leonard is aware of this, and was hoping that under his leadership-by-example method (staying silent, playing the game, not getting distracted), the Clippers would become mature and focused like the Spurs were.

What makes Raptors different from Clippers were two things: Raptors already made conference finals, and they gave up somebody they truly loved (DeMar DeRozan) for a shot at a title. When the Clippers sacrifice something for a title or a better future, it always came with a string attached to their heart. When Clippers traded Paul after he questioned their competitive desire, they responded by bringing in a flashy passer in Milos Teodosic to get back at their former savior. When Clippers traded Griffin, their no. 1 draft pick and security blanket - at the behest of Jerry West - it was a painful reckoning and a wakeup call. Trading Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who they really wanted to keep as their future point guard, for a superstar in Paul George, reminded them of the time they traded Paul, serving as the last straw for the Clippers, and the sole reason why Clippers have refused to pick up a point guard, instead going for dual guards (guard who could play both point and shooting) and pure shooting guards with playmaking or passing ability.

That's the life of the Clippers. They want everything to go perfect. If one single tiny microscopic little thing goes wrong, then everything goes wrong. Leonard is trying to get them out of that habit, but their personal emotions and attachments to certain players or personnel has made it complicated for Leonard to be able to even carry a voice. The way of a true championship contender has vocal superstar leaders, role players that are supportive, and a coach that is supposed to glue it altogether. Beverley is their main vocal piece, but he's not a superstar: no All-Star appearances, no MVP, no Finals MVP; he's a role starter, a glue guy. His leadership role needs to be reduced. Being a defensive specialist like Ron Artest, he needs to be a defensive captain, not a team captain.

One way for Leonard to gain control of the team will require the ultimate sacrifice, one that could ruin his silent image permamently: he needs to get ejected from a game. It will be a bad look on him and the Clippers as ejections become validations to their yearly disappointments and shortcomings. It could also be a omen to Leonard demanding out, and the whole world will rejoice in the Clipper's return to the lottery. But it could also be a transformative move that may change the Clipper's trajectory forever: "You can lose me now, or lose me later." If used correctly, an ejection can serve as a wake-up the same way West's trade of Blake Griffin forced Doc Rivers to finally care about coaching, resulting in the Revenge Of The Role Players two seasons ago, taking two games from the Ultimate Warriors as a perennial underdog, and while they lost admirably, their humble defeat was what won them Leonard.

One thing's for certain, there needs to be a change in leadership roles and how to be effective leaders. Leonard and George should be the primary vocal leaders and rallier, not a role player.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 15,323
And1: 840
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#11 » by ecuhus1981 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:15 am

^

Well said, WG.

I do agree that there is a method to Kawhi's reserved nature, based on his previous successes. I also agree that an uncharacteristic outburst may be just the wakeup call that his teammates need. Not in a belligerent way, just raw aggression and passion for winning. Sorta like that KP poster that mmm shared! More of those will endear him to his teammates IMO.

I appreciate the response from everyone here on this topic. Believe me, I know that my Nets have their own brand of leadership concerns, and I wasn't meaning to throw rocks from our glass house. It was purely curiosity, and I have faith that you guys will be fine and formidable in the playoffs. See y'all in the Finals!
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
NickP
Junior
Posts: 422
And1: 196
Joined: Aug 20, 2020
 

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#12 » by NickP » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:19 am

Kawhi is much more vocal this year on the court. He is much more involved on the sidelines. He is way more animated than at any time in his career. What he said post game in that interview was what any leader would say. The use of the word "concerning" is something only leaders would use. I think Ty has a lot to do with Kawhi being more vocal this year.
Roscoe Sheed
General Manager
Posts: 8,577
And1: 2,340
Joined: May 01, 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#13 » by Roscoe Sheed » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:13 pm

I hope the rumors of him being interested in joining the Heat are false. Doesn't seem like they have the money for him and that would be pretty dirty to the Clippers.
User avatar
esqtvd
Head Coach
Posts: 6,208
And1: 1,556
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#14 » by esqtvd » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:54 pm

Roscoe Sheed wrote:I hope the rumors of him being interested in joining the Heat are false. Doesn't seem like they have the money for him and that would be pretty dirty to the Clippers.



It would be ironic since we could have had Jimmy Butler for free and kept SGA and all those picks.
Image Are We Having Fun Yet?
Roscoe Sheed
General Manager
Posts: 8,577
And1: 2,340
Joined: May 01, 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#15 » by Roscoe Sheed » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:07 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:I hope the rumors of him being interested in joining the Heat are false. Doesn't seem like they have the money for him and that would be pretty dirty to the Clippers.



It would be ironic since we could have had Jimmy Butler for free and kept SGA and all those picks.

I thought Butler didn’t want to play here.

Also, I don’t think Miami has max cap space
User avatar
esqtvd
Head Coach
Posts: 6,208
And1: 1,556
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: A Discussion on Klaw's Leadership 

Post#16 » by esqtvd » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:43 pm

Roscoe Sheed wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:I hope the rumors of him being interested in joining the Heat are false. Doesn't seem like they have the money for him and that would be pretty dirty to the Clippers.



It would be ironic since we could have had Jimmy Butler for free and kept SGA and all those picks.

I thought Butler didn’t want to play here.

Also, I don’t think Miami has max cap space


I dunno Miami's cap situation but the rumor's out there. Could be internet BS.

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-trade-rumors-kawhi-leonard-is-intrigued-by-jimmy-butler-and-co-nba-insider-speculates-that-the-clippers-star-might-seek-to-sign-with-miami-heat/



As far as Butler goes, Clips moved too cool and too slow. Miami gave him the frat rush and won his heart.

    According to a report from Sam Amick, Jimmy Butler had plans to meet with the Clippers and Lakers before signing with the Miami Heat. What ultimately ended up happening was Butler falling in love with the Heat culture before even taking meetings with the Clippers and Lakers.

    "During the July 2019 free agency period in which he fell in love with the Heat culture during that storied Miami meeting and decided so quickly that he was all in with Pat Riley & Co., a source with knowledge of his situation said the next two meetings on his travel schedule were with the Clippers and the Lakers in Los Angeles," Amick said. "A source with knowledge of James’ thinking said Butler had the respect of the Lakers people who mattered most — James among them — but the Lakers chose to prioritize Kawhi Leonard above all else before he signed with the Clippers and were thus delayed in their process."

    Butler was on Kawhi Leonard's list of players he wanted to play with. While the Lakers made it to the NBA Finals without Jimmy Butler, it would be very interesting to see where the Clippers would go with him. Even though the Clippers still acquired Paul George, he didn't perform anywhere near how he needed to in the playoffs, and isn't the vocal leader that the Clippers needed. Butler could have been that opposite tandem that Kawhi Leonard needs.

    Regardless of what anyone says, Jimmy Butler made the correct choice. He's built something special in Miami and took a team that nobody had any expectations of, to the NBA Finals.


    BY FARBOD ESNAASHARI

Image Are We Having Fun Yet?

Return to Los Angeles Clippers