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GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM

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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#141 » by RingColluder » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:31 pm

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:Certainly, Paul George has had his share of excuses, my point is that dismissing a legitimate issues because, "well it's Paul George and he always has excuses" is not an actual fair assessment. Excuses abound in the NBA, Kawhi blamed not having enough high IQ guys, it's a legitimate reason, but for a person who doesn't like him, it's an excuse, and they'll say, "why don't you he the high IQ guy and take control of your offense like a LeBron James does".


What? Kawhi and PG are both injured. There are no excuses for anyone, but yet PG at a max deal going 5-15 vs Kawhi going 10-22 somehow gets more blamed than one of the worst players since the ASB. PG lost us that game.


NOBODY loses a game. I'm so sick of the scapegoating. Everybody does their best. We have no mutts on this team. We lose because we weren't good enough. PG isn't as good as we hoped. He's not as good as HE hoped. So it goes. Kawhi isn't LeBron James either.

Lou was traded--not dumped--because maybe Rondo can make everybody better. It's a Hail Mary.


People can try their best, they still should get blamed when they are consistently going 5-20 on a max contract. It's one thing if Morris has consistent games like that making 14 million a year vs someone making 35 million a year.

Kawhi is one of the best teammates imaginable, with a competent max player alongside him the team is far better. That is the issue.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#142 » by RingColluder » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:31 pm

NickP wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:for you dinguses who are crying about paul george being bad this game

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31181181/la-clippers-paul-george-trying-figure-how-manage-toe-injury


So are both Nick's the same person? 2 accounts from the same Nick are allowed? It's tough to tell with your delusions about PG.

He dealt with a supposed injured shoulder all season last year and preseason he said he'd be back to his, "MVP ways".

Actually there are 4 Nicks on this board. Now get back to your PG bashing.


The only thing you post on this board is defending PG, so that says more about you given I talk about the entire team not just 1 player :banghead:
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#143 » by og15 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:12 pm

RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Kawhi handles the ball maybe 15% in games whereas PG has it 80%. You're a PG fan? OK, but call it out then. He's been laying very poorly, injury or otherwise.

The solution is to have Rondo be PG. PG is an awful PG. Either T Mann, rondo or Bev at point. Maybe even Coffee or Kawhi.

Define "fan". PG is not one of my favorite players. I support PG because he's a Clipper, but if you mean "fan" as in favorite player or riding hard for the player, no, not at all. If you mean fan as in I would have been sad if he was trade eligible and was traded for Harden for example, no. So, I'm not a fan in that sense, but I am a fan in that I want him to succeed.

I'm not unnecessarily biased against PG. I responded specifically to what you said. George is not a point guard, he's been asked to pay the role because the Clippers didn't have any real PG on the team and Beverley is actually an inferior playmaker and pick and roll ball handler in comparison.

Kawhi is also not a PG. He's a good passer, a capable playmaker, but not a PG. Kawhi excels making plays and drawing the defense from his spots. Making Kawhi do more of PG's role would over-tax him, it wouldn't make Kawhi better, and it wouldn't make PG better or more useful. It's making an imperfect situation even worse.

Despite his flaws, George in the point guard role was the best compromise because it allowed the team to maximize Kawhi (keep him in his comfort zones) who is the best player. I'm not necessarily adjusting my best players spots and role to maximize other guys if it is going to affect their production.

Yes, the Clippers have games where they have issues with better defenses, it's not because George is the point guard vs Kawhi, it's because the team doesn't have a point guard. In the average game and on the average night, the Clippers are a top offense in the league. Mann, Beverley and Coffey (lol) are not making the offense better. It's gotten crazy when one starts suggesting that Amir Coffey would run the offense better, I can't even respond to that craziness.


Who gets the touches?
Also, this 15% vs 80% number you have here is WAY off, I hope you were just being hyperbolic because that's not close to accurate.

If you want data and not just he said, she said:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1

George averages 6.5 more touches a game and has about 12 more seconds on the ball a game vs Kawhi. Considering he brings the ball up more often, this is pretty irrelevant. If we look at touches in the front court, Kawhi averages 7.8 more a game.

Kawhi holds the ball for 0.26 seconds longer per touch. They have essentially the same amount of touch time, and if we're actually talking about after the ball has crossed half court, Kawhi has more.

I dont mean in iso situations, I mean when they are looked at to be the Point Guard, Paul George is most likely used a significant amount as a PG. Is that stat quantifiable?

But it should go down now w Rondo on the team
Those stats aren't for iso, that's for the whole game.

Subtracting front court touches from total touches, the remainder would indicate touches that start in the backcourt.

So backcourt touches:
George: 34.7
Leonard: 20.4

Paul George is looked at more, and what I am saying is rightfully so. I'd rather Kawhi have more possessions where he's getting down the floor and setting up in his spots vs Kawhi bringing the ball up and running the offense from other people from the point of attack. I'm about maximizing Kawhi vs maximizing other guys and putting him out of his sweet spots more often.

Yes, Rondo will help, but criticizing Paul George for roster deficiencies where he is essentially being played outside of his best role in order to maximize other guys doesn't make much sense to me. Yes, Paul George is a mediocre point guard, but Paul George is the best point guard in the starting lineup, and Kawhi should not be displaced because of the lack of a "real PG" on the roster.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#144 » by esqtvd » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:06 pm

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
What? Kawhi and PG are both injured. There are no excuses for anyone, but yet PG at a max deal going 5-15 vs Kawhi going 10-22 somehow gets more blamed than one of the worst players since the ASB. PG lost us that game.


NOBODY loses a game. I'm so sick of the scapegoating. Everybody does their best. We have no mutts on this team. We lose because we weren't good enough. PG isn't as good as we hoped. He's not as good as HE hoped. So it goes. Kawhi isn't LeBron James either.

Lou was traded--not dumped--because maybe Rondo can make everybody better. It's a Hail Mary.


People can try their best, they still should get blamed when they are consistently going 5-20 on a max contract. It's one thing if Morris has consistent games like that making 14 million a year vs someone making 35 million a year.

Kawhi is one of the best teammates imaginable, with a competent max player alongside him the team is far better. That is the issue.



You can't blame a horse for not being an elephant. You is what you is. You can blame the FO [and Ballmer] for acquiring and maxxing out PG, but that's not HIS fault. And he's heroically playing in pain, giving all he's got. The more the other guys step up, the more efficient he'll be.

Hey, I wish Kawhi were a better leader. He's a great player but there are at least 5 guys in the NBA I'd rather have the ball in his hands come the last shot. But you is what you is.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#145 » by RingColluder » Sun Apr 4, 2021 11:57 pm

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
NOBODY loses a game. I'm so sick of the scapegoating. Everybody does their best. We have no mutts on this team. We lose because we weren't good enough. PG isn't as good as we hoped. He's not as good as HE hoped. So it goes. Kawhi isn't LeBron James either.

Lou was traded--not dumped--because maybe Rondo can make everybody better. It's a Hail Mary.


People can try their best, they still should get blamed when they are consistently going 5-20 on a max contract. It's one thing if Morris has consistent games like that making 14 million a year vs someone making 35 million a year.

Kawhi is one of the best teammates imaginable, with a competent max player alongside him the team is far better. That is the issue.



You can't blame a horse for not being an elephant. You is what you is. You can blame the FO [and Ballmer] for acquiring and maxxing out PG, but that's not HIS fault. And he's heroically playing in pain, giving all he's got. The more the other guys step up, the more efficient he'll be.

Hey, I wish Kawhi were a better leader. He's a great player but there are at least 5 guys in the NBA I'd rather have the ball in his hands come the last shot. But you is what you is.


I do blame Frank a LOT. He's the issue. Good we got Rondo.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#146 » by nickhx2 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:07 am

it's like a squirt gun against a wide open fire hydrant
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#147 » by esqtvd » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:51 am

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
People can try their best, they still should get blamed when they are consistently going 5-20 on a max contract. It's one thing if Morris has consistent games like that making 14 million a year vs someone making 35 million a year.

Kawhi is one of the best teammates imaginable, with a competent max player alongside him the team is far better. That is the issue.



You can't blame a horse for not being an elephant. You is what you is. You can blame the FO [and Ballmer] for acquiring and maxxing out PG, but that's not HIS fault. And he's heroically playing in pain, giving all he's got. The more the other guys step up, the more efficient he'll be.

Hey, I wish Kawhi were a better leader. He's a great player but there are at least 5 guys in the NBA I'd rather have the ball in his hands come the last shot. But you is what you is.


I do blame Frank a LOT. He's the issue. Good we got Rondo.



The buck stops with Ballmer. He signed off on it all. That's why Doc took the fall and not Frank, because Ballmer's hands are just as dirty. [Although Frank will take the fall this summer if things go pfffffffffft.]
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#148 » by NickP » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:44 am

RingColluder wrote:
NickP wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
So are both Nick's the same person? 2 accounts from the same Nick are allowed? It's tough to tell with your delusions about PG.

He dealt with a supposed injured shoulder all season last year and preseason he said he'd be back to his, "MVP ways".

Actually there are 4 Nicks on this board. Now get back to your PG bashing.


The only thing you post on this board is defending PG, so that says more about you given I talk about the entire team not just 1 player :banghead:

You're a joke. You're obsessed with PG. 90% or more of your posts contain some level of PG bashing.

Warning for personal attack
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#149 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:51 am

NickP wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
NickP wrote:Actually there are 4 Nicks on this board. Now get back to your PG bashing.


The only thing you post on this board is defending PG, so that says more about you given I talk about the entire team not just 1 player :banghead:

You're a joke. You're obsessed with PG. 90% or more of your posts contain some level of PG bashing.


Paul George is playing awful for a max player. Even making the same as Kennard or Morris, he'd be playing poorly.

When people message me saying you're a troll, it's clear you have an agenda.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#150 » by esqtvd » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:18 am

RingColluder wrote:Paul George is playing awful for a max player. Even making the same as Kennard or Morris, he'd be playing poorly.



<I cut out the personal attacks in this discussion>

PG is a bit of a disappointment as a max player. He never dominates a game, which would give Kawhi the partner he really wanted so Kawhi could take the occasional night off.

But PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4

He does not dominate. But he brings something every night---Paul George is #1 in Clippers plus/minus this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746

Mercy.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#151 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:20 am

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:Paul George is playing awful for a max player. Even making the same as Kennard or Morris, he'd be playing poorly.



<I cut out the personal attacks in this discussion>

PG is a bit of a disappointment as a max player He never dominates a game, which would give Kawhi the partner he really wanted so Kawhi could take the occasional night off.

But PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4

He does not dominate. But he brings something every night---Paul George is #1 in Clippers plus/minus this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746

Mercy.


How many turnovers?
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#152 » by esqtvd » Mon Apr 5, 2021 5:59 am

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:Paul George is playing awful for a max player. Even making the same as Kennard or Morris, he'd be playing poorly.



<I cut out the personal attacks in this discussion>

PG is a bit of a disappointment as a max player He never dominates a game, which would give Kawhi the partner he really wanted so Kawhi could take the occasional night off.

But PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4

He does not dominate. But he brings something every night---Paul George is #1 in Clippers plus/minus this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746

Mercy.


How many turnovers?


Playing point guard? Out of position because we have nobody else? That was OG's point. PG is doing hero's work. That's why Rondo is here.

Playing hurt and playing out of position, PG is still #1 on the Clippers in plus/minus. The scoreboard does not lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


PG is NOT the problem with this team. He is keeping us afloat.

PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#153 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:13 am

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
<I cut out the personal attacks in this discussion>

PG is a bit of a disappointment as a max player He never dominates a game, which would give Kawhi the partner he really wanted so Kawhi could take the occasional night off.

But PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4

He does not dominate. But he brings something every night---Paul George is #1 in Clippers plus/minus this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746

Mercy.


How many turnovers?


Playing point guard? Out of position because we have nobody else? That was OG's point. PG is doing hero's work. That's why Rondo is here.

Playing hurt and playing out of position, PG is still #1 on the Clippers in plus/minus. The scoreboard does not lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


PG is NOT the problem with this team. He is keeping us afloat.

PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4


You focus a lot on +/-, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Marcus Morris is outplaying him since the ASB, and at a much cheaper value. Paul George needs to score 25+ a game to be worth his contract. He is not "keeping us afloat" Marcus Morris is.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#154 » by esqtvd » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:43 am

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
How many turnovers?


Playing point guard? Out of position because we have nobody else? That was OG's point. PG is doing hero's work. That's why Rondo is here.

Playing hurt and playing out of position, PG is still #1 on the Clippers in plus/minus. The scoreboard does not lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


PG is NOT the problem with this team. He is keeping us afloat.

PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4


You focus a lot on +/-, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Marcus Morris is outplaying him since the ASB, and at a much cheaper value. Paul George needs to score 25+ a game to be worth his contract. He is not "keeping us afloat" Marcus Morris is.



Glad Marcus Morris is finally STARTING to play up to his contract. He's fully healthy whereas PG is playing hurt.

I don't pit one Clipper vs another. THAT'S bullsh*it. I hope they all do well because I'm a Clipper fan.

Damn right I focus on +/minus. So do the coaches. It's the only objective number that corresponds to the scoreboard. You can stuff your percentages---you're either a plus when you're on the floor or a minus.


Over the last 10 games PG is #1, Marcus is #2. Props to BOTH. We need all hands on deck.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&LastNGames=10
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#155 » by NickP » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:27 pm

Just for Fun, see how many max players are in the NBA and see what they do on a nightly basis and then compare them to PG.
If Morris is playing better as a starter it's because he's playing alongside PG and Kawhi who get all the attention. This team needs a healthy PG in the playoffs and I'll take the injured version of PG than not having him at all.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#156 » by Captain Ballmer » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:36 pm

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Playing point guard? Out of position because we have nobody else? That was OG's point. PG is doing hero's work. That's why Rondo is here.

Playing hurt and playing out of position, PG is still #1 on the Clippers in plus/minus. The scoreboard does not lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


PG is NOT the problem with this team. He is keeping us afloat.



You focus a lot on +/-, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Marcus Morris is outplaying him since the ASB, and at a much cheaper value. Paul George needs to score 25+ a game to be worth his contract. He is not "keeping us afloat" Marcus Morris is.



Glad Marcus Morris is finally STARTING to play up to his contract. He's fully healthy whereas PG is playing hurt.

I don't pit one Clipper vs another. THAT'S bullsh*it. I hope they all do well because I'm a Clipper fan.

Damn right I focus on +/minus. So do the coaches. It's the only objective number that corresponds to the scoreboard. You can stuff your percentages---you're either a plus when you're on the floor or a minus.


Over the last 10 games PG is #1, Marcus is #2. Props to BOTH. We need all hands on deck.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&LastNGames=10


Anyone with a clear BBIQ would know that Morris finds lots of open threes because of the double teams PG13 takes, occupies the defenses. Yes he makes a lot of turnovers for that but he also deliver tons of open threes to Batum-Morris-Bev-Reggie-Kennard. I believe all over 40% on 3pt. These guys should thank him big time even more so being without %100 ready physcally to play.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#157 » by Captain Ballmer » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:41 pm

For those stupid contract critics... almost every team have 2 max spots to fill their roster avarage, some team like GSW have 4 for example. That makes like there are 60 players around the league possess max. contract. So, if you think PG13 is not in top 60 today.. that's something else and I don't have anything to talk with someone think that way.

I also read that new TV deal makes the salary Caps around 180 million usd in 2-3 year. Pg13 contract might be bargain 2 years later...
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#158 » by clipperlover » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:14 pm

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
How many turnovers?


Playing point guard? Out of position because we have nobody else? That was OG's point. PG is doing hero's work. That's why Rondo is here.

Playing hurt and playing out of position, PG is still #1 on the Clippers in plus/minus. The scoreboard does not lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


PG is NOT the problem with this team. He is keeping us afloat.

PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4


You focus a lot on +/-, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Marcus Morris is outplaying him since the ASB, and at a much cheaper value. Paul George needs to score 25+ a game to be worth his contract. He is not "keeping us afloat" Marcus Morris is.


Please provide some actual evidence vs the anecdotal comments. Surely, there are resources available that support this.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#159 » by clipperlover » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:38 pm

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:Paul George is playing awful for a max player. Even making the same as Kennard or Morris, he'd be playing poorly.



<I cut out the personal attacks in this discussion>

PG is a bit of a disappointment as a max player He never dominates a game, which would give Kawhi the partner he really wanted so Kawhi could take the occasional night off.

But PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4

He does not dominate. But he brings something every night---Paul George is #1 in Clippers plus/minus this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746

Mercy.


How many turnovers?


TO Ratio:
Simmons: 14.6
Westbrook: 13.4
Trae: 12.4
LaMelo:12.2
PG: 11.8
Luka: 11.7
Harden 11.6
Lowry:11.6
Giannis: 11.5
LeBron:11.4
Durant: 11.4


TO Per Game:
Westbrook: 5.0
Trae: 4.4
Luka: 4.3
Harden: 4.2
Giannis: 3.8
LeBron: 3.7
Simmons: 3.5
Wall: 3.4
Beal: 3.3
Booker: 3.3
PG: 3.3
Lillard: 3.2
Curry: 3.1
Jokic: 3.1

Looks like in that list that there are a bunch of MVP candidates that a worse or on par with PG as far as turnovers go.
RingColluder
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#160 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:32 pm

clipperlover wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
<I cut out the personal attacks in this discussion>

PG is a bit of a disappointment as a max player He never dominates a game, which would give Kawhi the partner he really wanted so Kawhi could take the occasional night off.

But PG is contributing every night. Playing hurt like he is, my estimation of him is going up.

22.3 ppg
6.6 rpg
5.5 apg

47%/42%
PER = 20.9--above his career average of 19.4

He does not dominate. But he brings something every night---Paul George is #1 in Clippers plus/minus this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746

Mercy.


How many turnovers?


TO Ratio:
Simmons: 14.6
Westbrook: 13.4
Trae: 12.4
LaMelo:12.2
PG: 11.8
Luka: 11.7
Harden 11.6
Lowry:11.6
Giannis: 11.5
LeBron:11.4
Durant: 11.4


TO Per Game:
Westbrook: 5.0
Trae: 4.4
Luka: 4.3
Harden: 4.2
Giannis: 3.8
LeBron: 3.7
Simmons: 3.5
Wall: 3.4
Beal: 3.3
Booker: 3.3
PG: 3.3
Lillard: 3.2
Curry: 3.1
Jokic: 3.1

Looks like in that list that there are a bunch of MVP candidates that a worse or on par with PG as far as turnovers go.



Westbrook averages 10.5 assists a game, PG has 5.5. Trae 10 assists, Luka 9 assists, Harden 11 assists,

Paul George is tied for 35th at 5.5 assists with Markelle Fultz and Jrue Holiday.

A better example of similar TO numbers for assists is KD.. PG averages 5.4 assists, KD 4.3 assists with PG 3.2 TO's a game, and KD .3.5 TO's a game... except the PPG and FG% are ridiculously lopsided.

And the last 2 games there were at least 2-3 non TO's that took lucky bounces as PG again as always runs into the paint and aimlessly throws the ball that can be easily go the other way for a 2 for 1. That's a way different "TO" than a TO that a Rondo would throw.

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