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GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM

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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#161 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:33 pm

Captain Ballmer wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
You focus a lot on +/-, that doesn't tell the whole story.

Marcus Morris is outplaying him since the ASB, and at a much cheaper value. Paul George needs to score 25+ a game to be worth his contract. He is not "keeping us afloat" Marcus Morris is.



Glad Marcus Morris is finally STARTING to play up to his contract. He's fully healthy whereas PG is playing hurt.

I don't pit one Clipper vs another. THAT'S bullsh*it. I hope they all do well because I'm a Clipper fan.

Damn right I focus on +/minus. So do the coaches. It's the only objective number that corresponds to the scoreboard. You can stuff your percentages---you're either a plus when you're on the floor or a minus.


Over the last 10 games PG is #1, Marcus is #2. Props to BOTH. We need all hands on deck.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&LastNGames=10


Anyone with a clear BBIQ would know that Morris finds lots of open threes because of the double teams PG13 takes, occupies the defenses. Yes he makes a lot of turnovers for that but he also deliver tons of open threes to Batum-Morris-Bev-Reggie-Kennard. I believe all over 40% on 3pt. These guys should thank him big time even more so being without %100 ready physcally to play.


Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#162 » by og15 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:20 pm

RingColluder wrote:
Captain Ballmer wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Glad Marcus Morris is finally STARTING to play up to his contract. He's fully healthy whereas PG is playing hurt.

I don't pit one Clipper vs another. THAT'S bullsh*it. I hope they all do well because I'm a Clipper fan.

Damn right I focus on +/minus. So do the coaches. It's the only objective number that corresponds to the scoreboard. You can stuff your percentages---you're either a plus when you're on the floor or a minus.


Over the last 10 games PG is #1, Marcus is #2. Props to BOTH. We need all hands on deck.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746&LastNGames=10


Anyone with a clear BBIQ would know that Morris finds lots of open threes because of the double teams PG13 takes, occupies the defenses. Yes he makes a lot of turnovers for that but he also deliver tons of open threes to Batum-Morris-Bev-Reggie-Kennard. I believe all over 40% on 3pt. These guys should thank him big time even more so being without %100 ready physcally to play.


Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.

I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#163 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:37 pm

og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Captain Ballmer wrote:
Anyone with a clear BBIQ would know that Morris finds lots of open threes because of the double teams PG13 takes, occupies the defenses. Yes he makes a lot of turnovers for that but he also deliver tons of open threes to Batum-Morris-Bev-Reggie-Kennard. I believe all over 40% on 3pt. These guys should thank him big time even more so being without %100 ready physcally to play.


Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.

I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.


If we really want to get into semantics, in the 2 most recent Magic and Lakers games, PG had at least 3 potential TO's in each game that ricocheted off the opponents and luckily into the Clippers players hands or a player that bounced it back out when the pass was bad. Do we need to really mark each time PG makes an awful pass even if ti doesn't result in a TO?


The extreme hyperbole is people talking like he is playing even close to a max player right now. If you showed me how Morris and PG have been playing since ASB and hid their salary numbers, I don't see how anyone could think PG is even coming close to his contract.

And in his last 15 games, PG has had 3-12, 7-21, 5-14, 5-14, 5-18, 3-12, 10-28 games. ... so arguably half of his last 15 (I would take out he Spurs shooting night) he has been very bad. If Morris or Reggie had these stats people would be screaming for him to get benched on here.

And in the last 10 games or so he's had games of 4 TO's 3 assists, 4 TO's 4 assists, 4 TO's 5 assists, 4 TO's 7 assists and 5 TO's 3 assists. These are horrendous numbers on top of his shooting stats.

I'm not sure what we're arguing really? The deeper you dive into his stats, the worse they look.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#164 » by og15 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:38 pm

It would be different if the Clippers had an elite playmaker at point guard and Paul George was usurping the offense, but again, and please stop skating around it. Paul George is the primary playmaker in the starting lineup because it is the best option based on the team make up. If Kawhi takes on that role, it disenfranchises Kawhi and gives him too much responsibility in order to make PG have fewer high turnover games, but I'm not seeing the argument of how that makes the whole team and offense better.

Beverley has shown he is not a playmaking PG his whole career, nice role player, but he's not good at that playmaking role. Jackson has been a primary playmaker, he's not the best decision maker if he has to do too much, and he's not a permanent fixture in the starting lineup to change how the lineup functions because of him. Coffey who was mentioned is not realistic to even comment on. Mann is a solid energy attacking player, and this has come alive with him not worrying about being PG. Dwayne Wade said that one of the biggest freedoms he had from his first to second season in the NBA was being moved off PG. He said when playing PG, you have to think too much, at off guard, he just played. Mann right now is just playing, I don't want him to start thinking too much.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#165 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:42 pm

og15 wrote:It would be different if the Clippers had an elite playmaker at point guard and Paul George was usurping the offense, but again, and please stop skating around it. Paul George is the primary playmaker in the starting lineup because it is the best option based on the team make up. If Kawhi takes on that role, it disenfranchises Kawhi and gives him too much responsibility in order to make PG have fewer high turnover games, but I'm not seeing the argument of how that makes the whole team and offense better.

Beverley has shown he is not a playmaking PG his whole career, nice role player, but he's not good at that playmaking role. Jackson has been a primary playmaker, he's not the best decision maker if he has to do too much, and he's not a permanent fixture in the starting lineup to change how the lineup functions because of him. Coffey who was mentioned is not realistic to even comment on. Mann is a solid energy attacking player, and this has come alive with him not worrying about being PG. Dwayne Wade said that one of the biggest freedoms he had from his first to second season in the NBA was being moved off PG. He said when playing PG, you have to think too much, at off guard, he just played. Mann right now is just playing, I don't want him to start thinking too much.


TMann, Bev (when he comes back) or Rondo should be the PG at this point. I agree Kawhi should not have the role, but PG is atrocious at it. Even Reggie is a better PG than PG bc of his handles.

And players doing too much? That's PG right now. His shooting might improve a lot more if hes not forced to be the PG as well.

I'd rather have Mann's game sacrifice (and long term improve) bc of him getting the PG position than PG having to do way too much that he's not anywhere close to equipped for and sacrifice his shooting and team ball because of it.


Rondo should fix this. Portland and Phoenix will be great tests to see how our PG situation is.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#166 » by esqtvd » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:53 pm

og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Captain Ballmer wrote:
Anyone with a clear BBIQ would know that Morris finds lots of open threes because of the double teams PG13 takes, occupies the defenses. Yes he makes a lot of turnovers for that but he also deliver tons of open threes to Batum-Morris-Bev-Reggie-Kennard. I believe all over 40% on 3pt. These guys should thank him big time even more so being without %100 ready physcally to play.


Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.

I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.



A 2-1 assist-turnover ratio is pretty much all you reasonably ask of a non-point guard--including so-called "combo guards." PG is a 2/3, not a 1/2, and is doing what the team needs--while hobbling.

And you do not attract double-teams just standing around at the 3-point line like Kennard and Batum. When PG draws a double, it's because he remains a threat to drive.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#167 » by RingColluder » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:56 pm

esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.

I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.



A 2-1 assist-turnover ratio is pretty much all you reasonably ask of a non-point guard--including so-called "combo guards." PG is a 2/3, not a 1/2, and is doing what the team needs--while hobbling.

And you do not attract double-teams just standing around at the 3-point line like Kennard and Batum. When PG draws a double, it's because he remains a threat to drive.


PG's biggest strength is his quick catch and shoot 3. It is not him holding the ball for 20 seconds and cause a quick turnover or a contested deep 2 bricked shot. PG doesn't need to draw double teams, I'll take him shooting a somewhat contested 3 in a catch and shoot over whether TF he is attempting to do now as both PG and iso scorer on the Clippers.

And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#168 » by clipperlover » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:34 am

RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.

I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.


If we really want to get into semantics, in the 2 most recent Magic and Lakers games, PG had at least 3 potential TO's in each game that ricocheted off the opponents and luckily into the Clippers players hands or a player that bounced it back out when the pass was bad. Do we need to really mark each time PG makes an awful pass even if ti doesn't result in a TO?


The extreme hyperbole is people talking like he is playing even close to a max player right now. If you showed me how Morris and PG have been playing since ASB and hid their salary numbers, I don't see how anyone could think PG is even coming close to his contract.

And in his last 15 games, PG has had 3-12, 7-21, 5-14, 5-14, 5-18, 3-12, 10-28 games. ... so arguably half of his last 15 (I would take out he Spurs shooting night) he has been very bad. If Morris or Reggie had these stats people would be screaming for him to get benched on here.

And in the last 10 games or so he's had games of 4 TO's 3 assists, 4 TO's 4 assists, 4 TO's 5 assists, 4 TO's 7 assists and 5 TO's 3 assists. These are horrendous numbers on top of his shooting stats.

I'm not sure what we're arguing really? The deeper you dive into his stats, the worse they look.


So, you talk about play after the All-Star break, but then go back to pull numbers prior to the All-=Star break. There have been 13 games since the All-Star break both Morris and Paul George have played in 11 of those games.

There is no doubt Morris is shooting a higher % over that time frame than PG and is not turning the ball over as much, but Morris also isn't assuming any ball handling responsibilities. PG's turnovers since the All Start break are 2.7/game which is less than his season average of 3.2.

In over half of the games since the ASB, Mr. Offense Morris has failed to score any points once, less than 10 pts 3 times, and less than 15 pts 7 times. PG has scored 15 or more 10 times out of 11.

Since the All-Start break, PG has also pulled down 4 more offensive rbs, 25 more defensive rebounds, 43 more assists, 9 more steals, 1 more block, 21 more turnovers (too be expected from a primary ball handler), one less foul, 23 more FTs made and 48 more points scored.

Is PG shooting poorly right now? Yes. Could his toe be a factor? Don't know. I never had the injury, but I do know a toe injury ended Jack Lambert's football career.

Does PG shooting poorly make Morris the better offensive player, not at all. Make Morris the primary ball handler and see what happens. PG can play and guard all 5 positions. Morris cannot.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#169 » by esqtvd » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:46 am

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.



A 2-1 assist-turnover ratio is pretty much all you reasonably ask of a non-point guard--including so-called "combo guards." PG is a 2/3, not a 1/2, and is doing what the team needs--while hobbling.

And you do not attract double-teams just standing around at the 3-point line like Kennard and Batum. When PG draws a double, it's because he remains a threat to drive.


PG's biggest strength is his quick catch and shoot 3. It is not him holding the ball for 20 seconds and cause a quick turnover or a contested deep 2 bricked shot. PG doesn't need to draw double teams, I'll take him shooting a somewhat contested 3 in a catch and shoot over whether TF he is attempting to do now as both PG and iso scorer on the Clippers.

And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.



Whose eye test? I don't believe in amateurs' "eye tests," not in bars, not on the internet. :lol:

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Plus/minus is used all across the basketball world. Coaches refer to it routinely. If their "eye test" says one thing and the scoresheet says another, better to question the eye test first. If that's what the professionals do, so should us duffers. If your team is plus+10 with Joe on the floor and minus-10 when Jim is, maybe your eyes need checking. Me, I'm inclined to go with Joe because good things happen when he plays.


But we are talking about assist-to-turnovers--and for a guy playing way out of his comfort zone, PG has been doing all that can be reasonably asked of him. As for what is optimal, you're not saying anything everybody doesn't know. Paul George is not a point guard, and by trying to fill that role he's also been sacrificing his own game.

“Just trying to get our two main guys the ball in a lot easier spots as far as them having to work so hard to get the ball against a set defense,” Rondo said. “If we are able to create stops and get out on the break, my job is to advance, pass the ball and let those guys attack one-on-one.”
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#170 » by og15 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:50 am

RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
Anyone with a clear BBIQ knows PG needs to SIT IN THE. CORNER shooting 3's, drawing attention from the defense rather than playing PG and taking dumb contested ISO 2's every other play that the defense knows he's shooting nearly all the time. That's why he's going 5-15 virtually every game and barely making an impact as a PG.

He played like this last year too, lets stop with the excuses.

I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.


If we really want to get into semantics, in the 2 most recent Magic and Lakers games, PG had at least 3 potential TO's in each game that ricocheted off the opponents and luckily into the Clippers players hands or a player that bounced it back out when the pass was bad. Do we need to really mark each time PG makes an awful pass even if ti doesn't result in a TO?


The extreme hyperbole is people talking like he is playing even close to a max player right now. If you showed me how Morris and PG have been playing since ASB and hid their salary numbers, I don't see how anyone could think PG is even coming close to his contract.

And in his last 15 games, PG has had 3-12, 7-21, 5-14, 5-14, 5-18, 3-12, 10-28 games. ... so arguably half of his last 15 (I would take out he Spurs shooting night) he has been very bad. If Morris or Reggie had these stats people would be screaming for him to get benched on here.
Who are the people talking as if he's playing close to a max player, "right now" though? In general sure, but specifically right now, who is arguing that?

The game results aren't very concerned with almost turnovers, and yes, Paul George is not an elite passer, who on the Clippers outside of Rondo who just joined a couple of games is or was? Yes, Paul George is flawed in the primary playmaker role, no one denies that, but he's been the best option in the starting lineup to maximize it, that's what you're not acknowledging.

Luckily the season is not only determined by the last 15, yes, we have determined that he's been struggling more recently, and he was great the 23 or so before that.

If Reggie or Morris had these bad stats for their last 15, but started the season averaging 25/6/5 on 52/49 for the first 23 games, and they had an injury hampering them, then there would be some understanding. Doesn't mean it's okay, doesn't mean we wouldn't complain, but there's a difference between saying PG has to play better, etc, and blaming PG for roster deficiency.


RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:It would be different if the Clippers had an elite playmaker at point guard and Paul George was usurping the offense, but again, and please stop skating around it. Paul George is the primary playmaker in the starting lineup because it is the best option based on the team make up. If Kawhi takes on that role, it disenfranchises Kawhi and gives him too much responsibility in order to make PG have fewer high turnover games, but I'm not seeing the argument of how that makes the whole team and offense better.

Beverley has shown he is not a playmaking PG his whole career, nice role player, but he's not good at that playmaking role. Jackson has been a primary playmaker, he's not the best decision maker if he has to do too much, and he's not a permanent fixture in the starting lineup to change how the lineup functions because of him. Coffey who was mentioned is not realistic to even comment on. Mann is a solid energy attacking player, and this has come alive with him not worrying about being PG. Dwayne Wade said that one of the biggest freedoms he had from his first to second season in the NBA was being moved off PG. He said when playing PG, you have to think too much, at off guard, he just played. Mann right now is just playing, I don't want him to start thinking too much.


TMann, Bev (when he comes back) or Rondo should be the PG at this point. I agree Kawhi should not have the role, but PG is atrocious at it. Even Reggie is a better PG than PG bc of his handles.

And players doing too much? That's PG right now. His shooting might improve a lot more if hes not forced to be the PG as well.

I'd rather have Mann's game sacrifice (and long term improve) bc of him getting the PG position than PG having to do way too much that he's not anywhere close to equipped for and sacrifice his shooting and team ball because of it.


Rondo should fix this. Portland and Phoenix will be great tests to see how our PG situation is.
Beverley is not a playmaker, I like him, but when it comes to playmaking he's better as a set up the offense and make the easier passes and third playmaker role.

Mann just found his energy and impact just playing and attacking without that being the point guard pressure. You don't try and push him into a different role with 20 games left in the season when you found a role he's impactful in, that's bad coaching.

Reggie is a decent player, but he's not a fixture in the starting lineup. Again, you don't alter the hierarchy there for a guy like Jackson, because in the playoffs if Beverley is healthy, it's not Jackson that will be playing with the starters, and it's not Bev that will be the primary playmaker when on with the starters. You have to think long term.

About Rondo, that's why Rondo was brought in, so yea, of course he's going to be point guard over George, that's the whole point of him being traded for.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#171 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:52 am

esqtvd wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

A 2-1 assist-turnover ratio is pretty much all you reasonably ask of a non-point guard--including so-called "combo guards." PG is a 2/3, not a 1/2, and is doing what the team needs--while hobbling.

And you do not attract double-teams just standing around at the 3-point line like Kennard and Batum. When PG draws a double, it's because he remains a threat to drive.


PG's biggest strength is his quick catch and shoot 3. It is not him holding the ball for 20 seconds and cause a quick turnover or a contested deep 2 bricked shot. PG doesn't need to draw double teams, I'll take him shooting a somewhat contested 3 in a catch and shoot over whether TF he is attempting to do now as both PG and iso scorer on the Clippers.

And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.



Whose eye test? I don't believe in amateurs' "eye tests," not in bars, not on the internet. :lol:

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Plus/minus is used all across the basketball world. Coaches refer to it routinely. If their "eye test" says one thing and the scoresheet says another, better to question the eye test first. If that's what the professionals do, so should us duffers. If your team is plus+10 with Joe on the floor and minus-10 when Jim is, maybe your eyes need checking. Me, I'm inclined to go with Joe because good things happen when he plays.


But we are talking about assist-to-turnovers--and for a guy playing way out of his comfort zone, PG has been doing all that can be reasonably asked of him. As for what is optimal, you're not saying anything everybody doesn't know. Paul George is not a point guard, and by trying to fill that role he's also been sacrificing his own game.

“Just trying to get our two main guys the ball in a lot easier spots as far as them having to work so hard to get the ball against a set defense,” Rondo said. “If we are able to create stops and get out on the break, my job is to advance, pass the ball and let those guys attack one-on-one.”


So for the record you're saying his recent games of 4 TO's 3 assists, 4 TO's 4 assists, 4 TO's 5 assists, 4 TO's 7 assists and 5 TO's 3 assists are Fien with you along with going 5-15 is fine for you? OK then :crazy: :crazy:

And he HAS been sacrificing his game a lot by playing PG and it is straight up not working. I' not doubting PG means well or is trying to be team player, but the best thing he can do is stop playing PG and let Rondo get to work.

And yeah Rondo's quote proves my point. It's his job to get Kawhi and PG into places where they can operate and attack. It is NOT PG's job. Even then, PG in transition with his lack fo willingness to draw contact is very troublesome. For someone as good of a fT shooter as him, he shouldn't be taking like only 4-5 shots a game at the line.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#172 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:53 am

og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.


If we really want to get into semantics, in the 2 most recent Magic and Lakers games, PG had at least 3 potential TO's in each game that ricocheted off the opponents and luckily into the Clippers players hands or a player that bounced it back out when the pass was bad. Do we need to really mark each time PG makes an awful pass even if ti doesn't result in a TO?


The extreme hyperbole is people talking like he is playing even close to a max player right now. If you showed me how Morris and PG have been playing since ASB and hid their salary numbers, I don't see how anyone could think PG is even coming close to his contract.

And in his last 15 games, PG has had 3-12, 7-21, 5-14, 5-14, 5-18, 3-12, 10-28 games. ... so arguably half of his last 15 (I would take out he Spurs shooting night) he has been very bad. If Morris or Reggie had these stats people would be screaming for him to get benched on here.
Who are the people talking as if he's playing close to a max player, "right now" though? In general sure, but specifically right now, who is arguing that?

The game results aren't very concerned with almost turnovers, and yes, Paul George is not an elite passer, who on the Clippers outside of Rondo who just joined a couple of games is or was? Yes, Paul George is flawed in the primary playmaker role, no one denies that, but he's been the best option in the starting lineup to maximize it, that's what you're not acknowledging.

Luckily the season is not only determined by the last 15, yes, we have determined that he's been struggling more recently, and he was great the 23 or so before that.

If Reggie or Morris had these bad stats for their last 15, but started the season averaging 25/6/5 on 52/49 for the first 23 games, and they had an injury hampering them, then there would be some understanding. Doesn't mean it's okay, doesn't mean we wouldn't complain, but there's a difference between saying PG has to play better, etc, and blaming PG for roster deficiency.


RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:It would be different if the Clippers had an elite playmaker at point guard and Paul George was usurping the offense, but again, and please stop skating around it. Paul George is the primary playmaker in the starting lineup because it is the best option based on the team make up. If Kawhi takes on that role, it disenfranchises Kawhi and gives him too much responsibility in order to make PG have fewer high turnover games, but I'm not seeing the argument of how that makes the whole team and offense better.

Beverley has shown he is not a playmaking PG his whole career, nice role player, but he's not good at that playmaking role. Jackson has been a primary playmaker, he's not the best decision maker if he has to do too much, and he's not a permanent fixture in the starting lineup to change how the lineup functions because of him. Coffey who was mentioned is not realistic to even comment on. Mann is a solid energy attacking player, and this has come alive with him not worrying about being PG. Dwayne Wade said that one of the biggest freedoms he had from his first to second season in the NBA was being moved off PG. He said when playing PG, you have to think too much, at off guard, he just played. Mann right now is just playing, I don't want him to start thinking too much.


TMann, Bev (when he comes back) or Rondo should be the PG at this point. I agree Kawhi should not have the role, but PG is atrocious at it. Even Reggie is a better PG than PG bc of his handles.

And players doing too much? That's PG right now. His shooting might improve a lot more if hes not forced to be the PG as well.

I'd rather have Mann's game sacrifice (and long term improve) bc of him getting the PG position than PG having to do way too much that he's not anywhere close to equipped for and sacrifice his shooting and team ball because of it.


Rondo should fix this. Portland and Phoenix will be great tests to see how our PG situation is.
Beverley is not a playmaker, I like him, but when it comes to playmaking he's better as a set up the offense and make the easier passes and third playmaker role.

Mann just found his energy and impact just playing and attacking without that being the point guard pressure. You don't try and push him into a different role with 20 games left in the season when you found a role he's impactful in, that's bad coaching.

Reggie is a decent player, but he's not a fixture in the starting lineup. Again, you don't alter the hierarchy there for a guy like Jackson, because in the playoffs if Beverley is healthy, it's not Jackson that will be playing with the starters, and it's not Bev that will be the primary playmaker when on with the starters. You have to think long term.

About Rondo, that's why Rondo was brought in, so yea, of course he's going to be point guard over George, that's the whole point of him being traded for.


People here re blaming Kawhi somehow when he's been carrying the team on his back or acting like PG is even playing close to competently. He hasn't, that's all.

Like you, I think Rondo getting a bigger role will bring everyone back to the roles they are best at. I only ask for PG to please stop holding the ball for 20 seconds and shooting a contested 2. Please.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#173 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:55 am

clipperlover wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.


If we really want to get into semantics, in the 2 most recent Magic and Lakers games, PG had at least 3 potential TO's in each game that ricocheted off the opponents and luckily into the Clippers players hands or a player that bounced it back out when the pass was bad. Do we need to really mark each time PG makes an awful pass even if ti doesn't result in a TO?


The extreme hyperbole is people talking like he is playing even close to a max player right now. If you showed me how Morris and PG have been playing since ASB and hid their salary numbers, I don't see how anyone could think PG is even coming close to his contract.

And in his last 15 games, PG has had 3-12, 7-21, 5-14, 5-14, 5-18, 3-12, 10-28 games. ... so arguably half of his last 15 (I would take out he Spurs shooting night) he has been very bad. If Morris or Reggie had these stats people would be screaming for him to get benched on here.

And in the last 10 games or so he's had games of 4 TO's 3 assists, 4 TO's 4 assists, 4 TO's 5 assists, 4 TO's 7 assists and 5 TO's 3 assists. These are horrendous numbers on top of his shooting stats.

I'm not sure what we're arguing really? The deeper you dive into his stats, the worse they look.


So, you talk about play after the All-Star break, but then go back to pull numbers prior to the All-=Star break. There have been 13 games since the All-Star break both Morris and Paul George have played in 11 of those games.

There is no doubt Morris is shooting a higher % over that time frame than PG and is not turning the ball over as much, but Morris also isn't assuming any ball handling responsibilities. PG's turnovers since the All Start break are 2.7/game which is less than his season average of 3.2.

In over half of the games since the ASB, Mr. Offense Morris has failed to score any points once, less than 10 pts 3 times, and less than 15 pts 7 times. PG has scored 15 or more 10 times out of 11.

Since the All-Start break, PG has also pulled down 4 more offensive rbs, 25 more defensive rebounds, 43 more assists, 9 more steals, 1 more block, 21 more turnovers (too be expected from a primary ball handler), one less foul, 23 more FTs made and 48 more points scored.

Is PG shooting poorly right now? Yes. Could his toe be a factor? Don't know. I never had the injury, but I do know a toe injury ended Jack Lambert's football career.

Does PG shooting poorly make Morris the better offensive player, not at all. Make Morris the primary ball handler and see what happens. PG can play and guard all 5 positions. Morris cannot.

Oh wow picking a game one or two before the ASB, oh I'm so sorry. I guess my point is totally wrong then :lol: :lol:


And agin you keep going back to rebounds, assists (where Morris isn't even used) and steals.. I AM TALKING PURELY AS A PERIMETER SHOOTER and THREAT. Morris is the better offensive scorer.

No one is saying Morris should be the primary ball handler, are you reading what I'm writing or just making things up to suit your narrative? This is like the 3rd time you're mentioning things I wasn't even debating in the topic :noway:
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#174 » by og15 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:55 am

RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
og15 wrote:I think we'd do a lot better with less extreme hyperbole. Paul George has played 38 games this season and has a total of 8 games with 33% or worse shooting. Saying he goes 5/15 virtually every game simply has no basis in reality.

Since returning from injury he's averaging 5.3 apg and 2.7 tpg, but the way you speak one would think he was averaging 5 tpg if they didn't watch the Clippers. Paul is having a tough stretch, no doubt, no denying that, but the excessive hyperbole is too much, let's have discussions about reality, not hyperbole.



A 2-1 assist-turnover ratio is pretty much all you reasonably ask of a non-point guard--including so-called "combo guards." PG is a 2/3, not a 1/2, and is doing what the team needs--while hobbling.

And you do not attract double-teams just standing around at the 3-point line like Kennard and Batum. When PG draws a double, it's because he remains a threat to drive.


PG's biggest strength is his quick catch and shoot 3. It is not him holding the ball for 20 seconds and cause a quick turnover or a contested deep 2 bricked shot. PG doesn't need to draw double teams, I'll take him shooting a somewhat contested 3 in a catch and shoot over whether TF he is attempting to do now as both PG and iso scorer on the Clippers.

And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.

When?

Last 5: 5.0 apg, 2.6 tpg
Last 10: 5.4 apg, 2.9 tpg
Last 11 (Post-All Star): 5.4 apg, 2.7 tpg
Last 15: 5.4 apg, 2.6 tpg

The closest I can find to this claim is last two games, 4.0 apg, 3.5 apg, but if you're using a two game sample size to make a broad claim....well...what are we even discussing for?
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#175 » by clipperlover » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:57 am

RingColluder wrote:And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.



Since the All-Star break: PG 6.8 Rbs/gm, 5.4 assts/gm, 2.7 Turnovers/gm and 18.4 ppg. So, it is a recent 2-1 assists to turnover ratio. During that time span he also had a 24pt, 9rb, 9 asts, 3 stl game vs the 76ers while Morris had a 13pt, 3 rbs, 1 ast 0 stl game. Against Denver, PG had 17 pts, 8 rbs 5 asts and 0 steals. Morris had 8 pts, 4 rbds, no assists, 1 stl.

I guess a near triple double vs the top team in the East is not something we need in the playoffs.

In his last 11, PG had had 6 games of 3 turnovers or less.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#176 » by og15 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:59 am

RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
If we really want to get into semantics, in the 2 most recent Magic and Lakers games, PG had at least 3 potential TO's in each game that ricocheted off the opponents and luckily into the Clippers players hands or a player that bounced it back out when the pass was bad. Do we need to really mark each time PG makes an awful pass even if ti doesn't result in a TO?


The extreme hyperbole is people talking like he is playing even close to a max player right now. If you showed me how Morris and PG have been playing since ASB and hid their salary numbers, I don't see how anyone could think PG is even coming close to his contract.

And in his last 15 games, PG has had 3-12, 7-21, 5-14, 5-14, 5-18, 3-12, 10-28 games. ... so arguably half of his last 15 (I would take out he Spurs shooting night) he has been very bad. If Morris or Reggie had these stats people would be screaming for him to get benched on here.
Who are the people talking as if he's playing close to a max player, "right now" though? In general sure, but specifically right now, who is arguing that?

The game results aren't very concerned with almost turnovers, and yes, Paul George is not an elite passer, who on the Clippers outside of Rondo who just joined a couple of games is or was? Yes, Paul George is flawed in the primary playmaker role, no one denies that, but he's been the best option in the starting lineup to maximize it, that's what you're not acknowledging.

Luckily the season is not only determined by the last 15, yes, we have determined that he's been struggling more recently, and he was great the 23 or so before that.

If Reggie or Morris had these bad stats for their last 15, but started the season averaging 25/6/5 on 52/49 for the first 23 games, and they had an injury hampering them, then there would be some understanding. Doesn't mean it's okay, doesn't mean we wouldn't complain, but there's a difference between saying PG has to play better, etc, and blaming PG for roster deficiency.


RingColluder wrote:
TMann, Bev (when he comes back) or Rondo should be the PG at this point. I agree Kawhi should not have the role, but PG is atrocious at it. Even Reggie is a better PG than PG bc of his handles.

And players doing too much? That's PG right now. His shooting might improve a lot more if hes not forced to be the PG as well.

I'd rather have Mann's game sacrifice (and long term improve) bc of him getting the PG position than PG having to do way too much that he's not anywhere close to equipped for and sacrifice his shooting and team ball because of it.


Rondo should fix this. Portland and Phoenix will be great tests to see how our PG situation is.
Beverley is not a playmaker, I like him, but when it comes to playmaking he's better as a set up the offense and make the easier passes and third playmaker role.

Mann just found his energy and impact just playing and attacking without that being the point guard pressure. You don't try and push him into a different role with 20 games left in the season when you found a role he's impactful in, that's bad coaching.

Reggie is a decent player, but he's not a fixture in the starting lineup. Again, you don't alter the hierarchy there for a guy like Jackson, because in the playoffs if Beverley is healthy, it's not Jackson that will be playing with the starters, and it's not Bev that will be the primary playmaker when on with the starters. You have to think long term.

About Rondo, that's why Rondo was brought in, so yea, of course he's going to be point guard over George, that's the whole point of him being traded for.


People here re blaming Kawhi somehow when he's been carrying the team on his back or acting like PG is even playing close to competently. He hasn't, that's all.

Like you, I think Rondo getting a bigger role will bring everyone back to the roles they are best at. I only ask for PG to please stop holding the ball for 20 seconds and shooting a contested 2. Please.

Like I said, you're using too much hyperbole. PG rarely does what you are saying (hold for 20 seconds then shoot contested 2), we already looked at the stats for touches and time of possession, sure it will happen once in a while, happens for every guy running an offense.

Okay, people as in who? And by blaming, do you mean pointing out that Kawhi is not always perfect? The least blamed or criticized player on this forum is Kawhi, BY FAR. Even when he probably should get more flack, most of us are pretty tame in regards to him.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#177 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:59 am

og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

A 2-1 assist-turnover ratio is pretty much all you reasonably ask of a non-point guard--including so-called "combo guards." PG is a 2/3, not a 1/2, and is doing what the team needs--while hobbling.

And you do not attract double-teams just standing around at the 3-point line like Kennard and Batum. When PG draws a double, it's because he remains a threat to drive.


PG's biggest strength is his quick catch and shoot 3. It is not him holding the ball for 20 seconds and cause a quick turnover or a contested deep 2 bricked shot. PG doesn't need to draw double teams, I'll take him shooting a somewhat contested 3 in a catch and shoot over whether TF he is attempting to do now as both PG and iso scorer on the Clippers.

And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.

When?

Last 5: 5.0 apg, 2.6 tpg
Last 10: 5.4 apg, 2.9 tpg
Last 11 (Post-All Star): 5.4 apg, 2.7 tpg
Last 15: 5.4 apg, 2.6 tpg

The closest I can find to this claim is last two games, 4.0 apg, 3.5 apg, but if you're using a two game sample size to make a broad claim....well...what are we even discussing for?


3/15: 4 TO's 4 assists
3/17: 4 TO's 5 assists
Hawks: 4 TO's 7 assists
Spurs 3/25: 2 TO's 4 assists
Spurs: 1 TO, 4 assists.
Lakers: 5 TO's 3 assists
Nuggest: 2 TO's 5 assists

He had one game where he had 10 assists, 0 turnovers. Great! That's terrific. But more often than not his turnovers have been poor including 4 out of 5 games averaging 4 TO's a game.

Like his scoring, just bc he has 1 out of 5 great shooting games doesn't negate the other 3 very poor shooting games and 1 average game. I'd take him shooting 3 good games, and 2 average games over that any day of the week.. just like a playoff series
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#178 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:00 am

clipperlover wrote:
RingColluder wrote:And does your 2-1 factor in the entire season or his TO ratio and assists from the last 1.5 or 2? Because lately he's closer to 4 TO's 4 or less assists a game than anything else.

I know you love these +/- TO ratio stats that look at the whole season and not the most recent 15 or so games, but even with the eye test there is no way in hell the way PG is currently playing is beneficial to our team in any way for the playoffs. It is not a winning formula. Nor has it been for his entire season.

It's like defending Carmelo Anthony's style of play knowning full well it consistently gets exposed in the playoffs every year.



Since the All-Star break: PG 6.8 Rbs/gm, 5.4 assts/gm, 2.7 Turnovers/gm and 18.4 ppg. So, it is a recent 2-1 assists to turnover ratio. During that time span he also had a 24pt, 9rb, 9 asts, 3 stl game vs the 76ers while Morris had a 13pt, 3 rbs, 1 ast 0 stl game. Against Denver, PG had 17 pts, 8 rbs 5 asts and 0 steals. Morris had 8 pts, 4 rbds, no assists, 1 stl.

I guess a near triple double vs the top team in the East is not something we need in the playoffs.

In his last 11, PG had had 6 games of 3 turnovers or less.


For the millionth time, I am not comparing PG and Morris's rebounds, assists TO's at all. Im talking purely as a offensive scorer, the TEAM (not your ego or your fandom of PG) would be better if we had Morris taking more of PG's shots.

If you don't bother to read what I'm writing I'm afraid we can't continue discussing things.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#179 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:03 am

og15 wrote:
RingColluder wrote:
og15 wrote:Who are the people talking as if he's playing close to a max player, "right now" though? In general sure, but specifically right now, who is arguing that?

The game results aren't very concerned with almost turnovers, and yes, Paul George is not an elite passer, who on the Clippers outside of Rondo who just joined a couple of games is or was? Yes, Paul George is flawed in the primary playmaker role, no one denies that, but he's been the best option in the starting lineup to maximize it, that's what you're not acknowledging.

Luckily the season is not only determined by the last 15, yes, we have determined that he's been struggling more recently, and he was great the 23 or so before that.

If Reggie or Morris had these bad stats for their last 15, but started the season averaging 25/6/5 on 52/49 for the first 23 games, and they had an injury hampering them, then there would be some understanding. Doesn't mean it's okay, doesn't mean we wouldn't complain, but there's a difference between saying PG has to play better, etc, and blaming PG for roster deficiency.


Beverley is not a playmaker, I like him, but when it comes to playmaking he's better as a set up the offense and make the easier passes and third playmaker role.

Mann just found his energy and impact just playing and attacking without that being the point guard pressure. You don't try and push him into a different role with 20 games left in the season when you found a role he's impactful in, that's bad coaching.

Reggie is a decent player, but he's not a fixture in the starting lineup. Again, you don't alter the hierarchy there for a guy like Jackson, because in the playoffs if Beverley is healthy, it's not Jackson that will be playing with the starters, and it's not Bev that will be the primary playmaker when on with the starters. You have to think long term.

About Rondo, that's why Rondo was brought in, so yea, of course he's going to be point guard over George, that's the whole point of him being traded for.


People here re blaming Kawhi somehow when he's been carrying the team on his back or acting like PG is even playing close to competently. He hasn't, that's all.

Like you, I think Rondo getting a bigger role will bring everyone back to the roles they are best at. I only ask for PG to please stop holding the ball for 20 seconds and shooting a contested 2. Please.

Like I said, you're using too much hyperbole. PG rarely does what you are saying (hold for 20 seconds then shoot contested 2), we already looked at the stats for touches and time of possession, sure it will happen once in a while, happens for every guy running an offense.

Okay, people as in who? And by blaming, do you mean pointing out that Kawhi is not always perfect? The least blamed or criticized player on this forum is Kawhi, BY FAR. Even when he probably should get more flack, most of us are pretty tame in regards to him.


That's just blatantly untrue.

It's getting to the point where I guess I have to mark and highlight each time PG does that otherwise there's no use debating it. You think it's fine for him to do that like 4 times a game that lead to easy baskets on the other end? It's not just once or twice a game, I'd bet you a very nice sum on that.

And if that's true ok, it might have been just 2-3 posters (2 who might even be the same person), but Clipper fans are giving PG a lot more slack than imo is deserved.
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Re: GAME 50: Clippers (32-17) vs Nuggets (32-17)—Thursday 10PM 

Post#180 » by RingColluder » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:05 am

and btw this PG turnover/assist, ball possession time debate will be unimportant hopefully be tomorrow as Rajon establishes his role AND Beverly comes back at some point.

The main issue will just be his shooting slump and willingness to draw contact for us to get FT's... and fo course developing chemistry and lineup rotations once everyone is back.

We are running out of time for that though. Need a status update on Ibaka and Bev ASAP

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