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Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN

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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#341 » by TheNewEra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:15 am

Max Headrom wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:Mann out of the rotation and I guess Rondo is to be determined but dnp tonight. Wtf are we doing


Lue said the last series was get to the rim or die trying, this series is not


When guys are missing 3s like they were last series we need to get to the rim or die trying. George has drawn fouls on Gobert multiple times and Kawhi can bully ball him out the way. Not to mention Zu and Boogie have found success going at him so maybe just get him in foul trouble? Favors has also racked up plenty of fouls

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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#342 » by TheNewEra » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:17 am

SK21209 wrote:We saw Mann in Game 1 against this Jazz team, he had once nice take to the basket but wasn’t really being guarded just like Rondo. This Jazz team is smarter than the Mavs, they’ll take advantage of any non-shooter on the court to maximize Gobert’s impact on the game.



Then go at them directly. Gobert hasn’t had his usual impact because of all the attacking we have done at him
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#343 » by Captain Ballmer » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:19 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:Aside from missing wide open 3s, there were several key plays that made a difference in this game. First, Clarkson making a bank shot 3, Ingles making a layup off the top of the backboard, and Mitchell getting away with a blatant travel in the 4th quarter.

Utah was lucky in the 2nd half, definitely. But we should have played smarter after the comeback. There are early shots from Reggie-PG-Kawhi-Morris, stupid-street ball type passes and Kawhi no-shows are the reason we lost.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#344 » by TucsonClip » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:31 am

Mann doesn't need to play 20 minutes, but when Mitchell is going off for 25+ points in a half, two games in a row, that Lue quote/statement on Mann makes no damn sense.
Plus, why would I want to go to the NBA? Duke players suck in the pros.

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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#345 » by esqtvd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:50 am

Captain Ballmer wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:Aside from missing wide open 3s, there were several key plays that made a difference in this game. First, Clarkson making a bank shot 3, Ingles making a layup off the top of the backboard, and Mitchell getting away with a blatant travel in the 4th quarter.


Utah was lucky in the 2nd half, definitely. But we should have played smarter after the comeback. There are early shots from Reggie-PG-Kawhi-Morris, stupid-street ball type passes and Kawhi no-shows are the reason we lost.



Make-or-miss league, baby. :( It was painful but I didn't think they were bad shots--they were open looks. We outplayed them in every category [TOs, FTAs, rebs, assists] but they hit 51% of their 3s and we hit 37%. And for all his 37 points, Mitchell still ended up at minus-2.

Once again, our boys didn't quit. We've been 0-2 before and come back to win the series. Fairly recently, as I recall...



And God bless Reggie. Anybody who trashed him should leave the board immediately, and forever.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#346 » by esqtvd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:22 am

Max Headrom wrote:
Clemenza wrote:See now what's the deal with this?

Read on Twitter


Probably the same reason Rondo isn't in the rotation. Can't attack the paint the way he usually does against the Jazz and need to have capable shooters in the game. Granted we need said capable shooters to hit their shots but, it's been a ton of drive and kicks so far this series and the Clippers are still generating great looks. Guys just aren't hitting them


The rap on Mann even before the playoffs was to collapse into the paint and dare him to shoot the 3. Even though his % looks good, he's just not going to put up 20 from out there. Cut off his drive. And although he's a plus defender, he's not enough of one to make up for how he messes up our spacing.

We lost the game on the floor tonight. This isn't the NFL, where a coach and a quarterback can win you the whole thing with what they have above their shoulders.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#347 » by Clemenza » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:44 am

esqtvd wrote:
Max Headrom wrote:
Clemenza wrote:See now what's the deal with this?

Read on Twitter


Probably the same reason Rondo isn't in the rotation. Can't attack the paint the way he usually does against the Jazz and need to have capable shooters in the game. Granted we need said capable shooters to hit their shots but, it's been a ton of drive and kicks so far this series and the Clippers are still generating great looks. Guys just aren't hitting them


The rap on Mann even before the playoffs was to collapse into the paint and dare him to shoot the 3. Even though his % looks good, he's just not going to put up 20 from out there. Cut off his drive. And although he's a plus defender, he's not enough of one to make up for how he messes up our spacing.

We lost the game on the floor tonight. This isn't the NFL, where a coach and a quarterback can win you the whole thing with what they have above their shoulders.

True but look how harder and the extra work that the stars have to fight through in this game when two guys that are actually helpful to them and their games is Rondo and Mann. Pat Bev did his thing on defense tonight but on the flipside he's was absolutely horrible on offense. I honestly feel like our team was handicapped tonight because of the rotations or lack there of
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#348 » by esqtvd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:04 am

Scoundreldays wrote:
og15 wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:Not even going to get mad anymore that was disgraceful. I don’t know how Mook gets so many minutes not hitting shots and Kennard only gets one attempt

Morris is really making it tough for the team. Dude can't have these multiple game 3PT shooting droughts. His shooting alone changes both games, this is similar to what happened vs Dallas. .

He has just not proven reliable, quite surprising. Proven he can shoot at home and get very hot, but 1/14 in the two games is a hard pill.


Has he even been impactful on defense? Not good at determining good defense yet unless it's super obvious



Well, we all know what I think :lol:

He did have 10 rebs tonight, a season high. But 8 points in 37 minutes is freeloading when it's your 3rd-highest paid player. In 9 playoff games, he's only scored in double figures 3 times.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/6462/marcus-morris-sr

We've only given up more than tonight's 117 points once in this year's playoffs. Our defense is not killing us, despite monster performances from Doncic and Mitchell. The real question remains, WHERE ARE WE GONNA GET POINTS??
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#349 » by esqtvd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:21 am

Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Max Headrom wrote:
Probably the same reason Rondo isn't in the rotation. Can't attack the paint the way he usually does against the Jazz and need to have capable shooters in the game. Granted we need said capable shooters to hit their shots but, it's been a ton of drive and kicks so far this series and the Clippers are still generating great looks. Guys just aren't hitting them


The rap on Mann even before the playoffs was to collapse into the paint and dare him to shoot the 3. Even though his % looks good, he's just not going to put up 20 from out there. Cut off his drive. And although he's a plus defender, he's not enough of one to make up for how he messes up our spacing.

We lost the game on the floor tonight. This isn't the NFL, where a coach and a quarterback can win you the whole thing with what they have above their shoulders.

True but look how harder and the extra work that the stars have to fight through in this game when two guys that are actually helpful to them and their games is Rondo and Mann. Pat Bev did his thing on defense tonight but on the flipside he's was absolutely horrible on offense. I honestly feel like our team was handicapped tonight because of the rotations or lack there of



I just don't see how Mann is gonna give you more than Bev if you collapse on him and take away his drives. He's no better a shooter and not quite the manic defender. I think he'll still see some minutes but he was most effective alongside Rondo, who is on the statisical sh*tlist himself.


Everybody except Batum was in the minus tonight and Batum only put up 7/3/2. Ty is still looking for combinations that work. And hey, we were still in this one, even took the lead in the 4th after trailing all game. Coach put them in position to win.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401333059
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#350 » by 8David24 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:42 am

I don't see Clippers beating Jazz after two such convincing victories of Utah Jazz. Obviously Utah is a completely different beast than it was the Dallas team. I hope that I and bookies (bet365, partypoker...) are wrong because right now everyone sees Utah playing in the conference finals. Remember, Mike Conley doesn’t play at all!
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#351 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:38 pm

After winning Game 7 in remarkable fashion, you aren’t looking for more meltdowns. You are looking for this team to turn the corner and be mentally tough.

So far, this team has showed there’s enough mental toughness to get up off the mat.

They haven’t shown mental toughness to avoid meltdowns that put us on the mat.

It’s troubling to me. Choke until our back is against the wall and then fight back? Is that a plan?
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#352 » by GamecockFan1024 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:30 pm

Kawhi has to be better. Playoffs are where the stars shine and he's been invisible so far this series. He needs to step up.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#353 » by TrueLAfan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:02 pm

To me, the reason we lost is actually pretty simple. We had two players that had offensive impact in the second half. The rest of the team wasn’t just kinda bad--they were miserable. Nobody came through.

Second Half:
PG/Reggie: 14-23 FG, 4-9 3P, 10-10 FT, 42 points
Rest of Team: 6-18 FG, 2-9 3P, 2-2 FT, 16 points

Fourth Quarter:
PG/Reggie: 6-11 FG, 3-6 3P, 3-3 FT, 18 points
Rest of Team: 2-11 FG, 1-7 3P, 2-2 FT, 7 points

I agree that we were in a position to win—and 9 times out of 10, Kawhi alone would give enough to get us over the hump. Last night was the one time he didn’t. And neither did anyone else. I don’t think anything Lue did kept us in the game as much as Reggie Jackson and PG did—and in the end, it was just PG. It was a 101-101 game with 6 minutes to go. PG scored 8 in those final six minutes. Reggie got a bucket—he was 1-2. Mook, PatBev and Kawhi were 0-5. It is what it is.

I’m not sure Mann would/should be taking minutes from Bev--but I think we could find a way for him to get more court time. And, yeah, I'd like us to try some different defensive sets. Utah’s lineup has a bunch of starters that Mann could/should be able to defend better than someone larger. I mean, they’ve obviously got Gobert—but, leaving Mitchell out of it, they’re playing Clarkson, O’Neale, and Bogan a combined 70 minutes a game. Fact is that Utah, other than Gobert is a smallish team—small enough so that a guy like Mann could switch off and defend a lot of players that are getting major minutes. I kind of question our whole idea of trying to be “bigger” at the forward and guard positions than Utah, which we’re clearly doing. “Right size” players like Batum and Mann can help us more than they have.

Anyway, I *do* think Mann has the potential to be more of an offensive plus than both Bev and Morris. The biggest area of growth in Mann this year, as far as I could see, was in offensive ability. In the last half of the year, Mann was both an above average offensive player and a guy who had the ability to go off if defenses left him alone. It’s a risk to give him 15 minutes a playoff game to find out—but what have we got to lose? PatBev and Mook are shooting under 25% combined—and 9% from three. They’ve played 97 minutes and scored 20 points. I mean, the bar is awfully low. To me, it looks like the questions are:

--Which is more likely, PatBev and/or Mook having a good offensive game, or Mann having as good or better game on that end?
--Does Mann give us better matchup possibilities on D?
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#354 » by clipperlover » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:55 pm

One of the best ways to slow a 3 pt shooting team down is to slow the game down, so they can't get into an offensive flow. You do that by getting into the bonus early and making a living at the line. That is one area where PG has done well. If he would stop shooting the deep jumpers and just attack, then he adds more value. He is 18-19 from the FT line in this series. Kawhi is only 7-8 and needs to attack more. Those 25 combined FTs are only 9 less than the entire Jazz team had made through 2 games.

We can beat Utah, but we shouldn't wait for the 3s to fall for it to happen. Getting the 3s to fall is like icing on the top, but shouldn't be our only path to victory. While we ended up losing, we did only give up 24 in the 4th (our 2nd best Qtr).

Utah won, but they also shot over 51% from 3 for the game. They were 7-11 from 3 in the 3rd, but we were able to win the quarter. Utah has been sitting at home since June 1st, so now they have to do some traveling. I don't expect their 3s to be falling the same when they get to L.A.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#355 » by clipperlover » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:02 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:After winning Game 7 in remarkable fashion, you aren’t looking for more meltdowns. You are looking for this team to turn the corner and be mentally tough.

So far, this team has showed there’s enough mental toughness to get up off the mat.

They haven’t shown mental toughness to avoid meltdowns that put us on the mat.

It’s troubling to me. Choke until our back is against the wall and then fight back? Is that a plan?


One of the hardest things to do is to close a team out. The Bucks went up 2-0 on Toronto two years ago and then lost the next 4. A series is about adjustments. Utah was up 3-1 on Denver last year also and lost. Can they take a punch in the mouth this year and get up off the mat? Don't know. Game 3 will be tell us a lot about both teams. When the series gets tight and you have to start thinking about each possession, who will rise to the occasion?
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#356 » by MartinToVaught » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:07 pm

SK21209 wrote:We saw Mann in Game 1 against this Jazz team, he had once nice take to the basket but wasn’t really being guarded just like Rondo. This Jazz team is smarter than the Mavs, they’ll take advantage of any non-shooter on the court to maximize Gobert’s impact on the game.

We saw Mann for 8 minutes in Game 1. In contrast, washed-up Rondo played 28 minutes. For those who buy into plus-minus stats, Rondo was -3 while Mann was +4. The excuse for Game 1 was fatigue, so it seems counterproductive that Lue only gave 8 minutes to Mann when we needed the youthful energy he provides.

This has nothing to do with the Jazz. Lue has had a Doc-esque bias against playing Mann all season except for when circumstances forced him to. He actively looks for any excuse not to play Mann. Then we wonder why Mann passed up the shot in Game 5 against the Mavs. He was obviously scared that Lue was going to bench him for the rest of the series if he missed it.

Mann should be an important part of the Clippers' future, but Lue is going to ruin his development as a player with the way he's coaching. This is exactly what got Lue fired in Cleveland, BTW. They were trying to rebuild post-LeBron, but Lue refused to stop playing washed veterans over younger players. Just like Doc, Lue refuses to learn from his past mistakes.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#357 » by playaloc916 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:32 pm

Looks like Morris should be called Pandemic Mook now... For these playoffs, he's shooting 38%/35%. Last year he shot 51%/48%.

Kawhi and PG seem to be alternating good scoring games. Most of the time, they can't seem to both have good shooting games at the same time.

I think Reggie might be the most consistent player so far in these playoffs. Normally, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but instead, I'm actually disappointed. Disappointed in the sense that he would have been the "x-factor", but our stars can't seem to score as consistently as the opposing team's star(s), and Mook is a complete no-show (if we exclude Game 7, I'd be scared to see his numbers).
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#358 » by Clemenza » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:33 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
The rap on Mann even before the playoffs was to collapse into the paint and dare him to shoot the 3. Even though his % looks good, he's just not going to put up 20 from out there. Cut off his drive. And although he's a plus defender, he's not enough of one to make up for how he messes up our spacing.

We lost the game on the floor tonight. This isn't the NFL, where a coach and a quarterback can win you the whole thing with what they have above their shoulders.

True but look how harder and the extra work that the stars have to fight through in this game when two guys that are actually helpful to them and their games is Rondo and Mann. Pat Bev did his thing on defense tonight but on the flipside he's was absolutely horrible on offense. I honestly feel like our team was handicapped tonight because of the rotations or lack there of



I just don't see how Mann is gonna give you more than Bev if you collapse on him and take away his drives. He's no better a shooter and not quite the manic defender. I think he'll still see some minutes but he was most effective alongside Rondo, who is on the statisical sh*tlist himself.


Everybody except Batum was in the minus tonight and Batum only put up 7/3/2. Ty is still looking for combinations that work. And hey, we were still in this one, even took the lead in the 4th after trailing all game. Coach put them in position to win.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401333059

Mann, who I'll admit is not all the way there yet offensively, is still better than Pat Bev offensively. Bev was 0-5 and brings nothing to the team from a pg perspective. Its very rare that he can even make a layup. Mann attacks the paint and finishes at a good clip not to mention he will knock down the occasional three. Rondo & Mann's defense, ball handling, assists, rebounding, fight, energy, intangibles, etc. is a huge blow to the team and our stars. Go ahead and put them in the doghouse but it comes at a steep price
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#359 » by clipperlover » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:39 pm

I think there is a way that we can get Lue to make the right adjustments. We need Morris to get into foul trouble early in every game, so Lue benches him. Boogie has contributed more in much less time this series. Plus, Boogie can body up on Gobert. The issue for Boogie is that he is trying to do too much because he knows his time is limited. Lue needs to be forced to leave him in there longer.

Does Boogie impact things defensively, yes? However, he adds a level of toughness that is missing and he can rebound and get to the FT line. Lue needs to find a way to take advantage of what Boogie can provide.
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Re: Round 2: Game 2 - Clippers vs Jazz - 7pm ESPN 

Post#360 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:42 pm

playaloc916 wrote:Looks like Morris should be called Pandemic Mook now... For these playoffs, he's shooting 38%/35%. Last year he shot 51%/48%.

Kawhi and PG seem to be alternating good scoring games. Most of the time, they can't seem to both have good shooting games at the same time.

I think Reggie might be the most consistent player so far in these playoffs. Normally, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but instead, I'm actually disappointed. Disappointed in the sense that he would have been the "x-factor", but our stars can't seem to score as consistently as the opposing team's star(s), and Mook is a complete no-show (if we exclude Game 7, I'd be scared to see his numbers).

What's that sound?

The Utah Jazz and their fans applauding the idea that Reggie is our most consistent player this series and hoping that it continues.
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