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The Danger Of Reunions: The DeAndre Jordan Sweepstakes

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:34 pm
by Wammy Giveaway
We just saw the Clippers trade Beverley, Rondo and Oturu for Eric Bledsoe, a former Clipper who was an integral part of A Tribe Called Bench during the second year of the Paul-Griffin Lob City era. Doc Rivers traded him in a sign-and-trade three-team deal for J.J. Redick and Jared Dudley. Bledsoe on his own saw higher stats and more responsibility, but his impact as the Mini-LeBron, the unique ability to chase block, dunk and lob-jam were gone. With the Suns, he missed the playoffs every year. With the Bucks, he was blamed for all of their playoff shortcomings. With the Pelicans, he stopped caring. The hope is that a return to the Clippers will reinvigorate what Bledsoe had lost - but the reality is, he does much better as a role player coming off the bench than being a role starter.

No surprise then, we had this:

Read on Twitter


The Nets will look into either trading Jordan to another team to be bought out, or take the buyout themselves. Once Jordan clears waivers, one of the first sentences from news outlets will be "the Clippers are strong candidates to sign DeAndre Jordan for a reunion/second stint."

Reunions can be feel good stories for players set to retire after an illustrious career in the league, but only for that. Anything else, it's a sign of desperation. Clippers currently have Zubac who plays good but not great and suffered an injury in the last two games of their playoff run, and a veteran in Ibaka that is still healing up from his back injury. Cousins has yet to be re-signed. With the looks of their big man rotation looking slim, and the recent report/rumor of Hartenstein going overseas to play for FC Bayren Munich in Germany, the Clippers could be forced to play small ball for an indefinite amount of time until Ibaka heals or Cousins re-signs. Batum or Morris as center, good luck.

Jordan was the longest tenured Clipper ever, spanning 10 years. He's seen it all: the final years of DunLeavy, the drafting of Griffin, the trade of Paul and the start of Lob City era, Sterling's ouster, Ballmer's arrival, the 3-1 collapse to Rockets that saw him leave Clippers for Mavericks before changing his mind, the coming of Jerry West, the breakup of Paul-Griffin duo, his best friend Griffin shipped out for a rebuild. Clippers have always been tempted to trade Jordan, but they never went through with it - they loved him so much, they would rather let him walk instead of being compelled to trade him themselves, which is what eventually happened at the conclusion of the 2017-18 offseason.

Like Bledsoe, Jordan's impact hasn't been the same since he left the Clippers. If Jordan gets bought out, there is a good chance of the reunion cycle repeating, that a return to his first team will make him the electrifying role starter he once was. Do Clippers believe their best center was the one they should have never let go? After all the times Jordan was in rumor mill while on Clippers, will he go through that ride again? Have their issues mellowed out following the Blazers tie game mishap, the first 3-1 collapse to Rockets and his desire to want out? Could Kawhi Leonard and his Spursian Tim Duncan-style help mend their relationship?

But there's more, now you have to contend with Lakers:

Read on Twitter


If this comes to pass, it'll be the same thing like with Chris Paul: will Clippers be willing to defeat someone they once truly loved?

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:59 pm
by madmaxmedia
Reunions are nice if they truly make sense for both parties, and the team's needs and cap space fit the player's abilities and market value. If that's the case, then great! The familiarity can then be a good thing in terms of fit and chemistry.

I honestly don't know what DJ has left in the tank, or what he's looking for in terms of role and money.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:54 am
by esqtvd
DJ: VERY similar production to Zubac's with only a slight edge to Zu.

ttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html


No reason to sign DJ if he is bought out but once again it brings Zu's trade value @ $7M into serious question when trad 5s like Drummond and DJ will command only the minimum on the open market.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:46 am
by nickhx2
who doesn't love a good reunion

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:09 am
by Kelphus
If we have the roster space, it would be great to welcome DJ back. I remember when he was a discouraged backup to Kaman. Then Kaman injured his ankle and all of a sudden DJ grew up and woke up and became a solid (not star) center. He never reached his total potential, but defensively he was a presence down low. Hack a DJ did drive me nuts though. Better DJ than Boogie????

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:27 pm
by clipsfever
We need a C who can help us 2 seasons from now when it will be LOB Trophy or death... someone trending upwards in potential impact... Pretty sure that's not DJ

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:11 pm
by Goner
esqtvd wrote:DJ: VERY similar production to Zubac's with only a slight edge to Zu.

ttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html


No reason to sign DJ if he is bought out but once again it brings Zu's trade value @ $7M into serious question when trad 5s like Drummond and DJ will command only the minimum on the open market.

While this is true, their respective trajectories must be taken into account. Zu is young and still on the upswing while DJ is likely in the throes of his proverbial athletic cliff. Athletic bigs tend to age more like milk than wine; which frustrates things since the buyout market will likely be populated by bigs in this stage. Zu, conversely, is a relatively cheap but consistent alternative.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:29 pm
by esqtvd
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:DJ: VERY similar production to Zubac's with only a slight edge to Zu.

ttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html


No reason to sign DJ if he is bought out but once again it brings Zu's trade value @ $7M into serious question when trad 5s like Drummond and DJ will command only the minimum on the open market.


While this is true, their respective trajectories must be taken into account. Zu is young and still on the upswing while DJ is likely in the throes of his proverbial athletic cliff. Athletic bigs tend to age more like milk than wine; which frustrates things since the buyout market will likely be populated by bigs in this stage. Zu, conversely, is a relatively cheap but consistent alternative.



Zu gets the edge IMO but would teams think the $5M difference in salary from DJ or Drummond is worth it or would it be better spent elsewhere? Zu has been mentioned as attractive trade bait but that's questionable now. And is he really on the upswing or has he plateaued?

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 pm
by TrueLAfan
At the minimum? DJ would be terrific. There’s a little bit of a boomerang about DJ and his level of play and ability; I think he was overrated for a while. Now he’s pretty substantially underrated. He almost never misses games. His level of productivity is actually almost identical throughout his career; check out his 1100 possession/36 min stats. He’s an above average rim protector and outstanding rebounder, which allows you to play a PF who’s considerably below average in those areas (someone like Gallo immediately comes to mind) with lesser overall loss. He has no range, but is still a very high percentage shooter and is terrifically efficient offensively, even with the FT woes. Lousy side to side quicks, but good motor (as always). DJ will give you 15-20 productive minutes a game, and will probably play in 70+ games.

The bottom line is there’s a place in the league for big men like DJ. Some teams forget that; some coaches don’t plan for it. We’d get some good play out of him

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:24 pm
by Goner
esqtvd wrote:
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:DJ: VERY similar production to Zubac's with only a slight edge to Zu.

ttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html


No reason to sign DJ if he is bought out but once again it brings Zu's trade value @ $7M into serious question when trad 5s like Drummond and DJ will command only the minimum on the open market.


While this is true, their respective trajectories must be taken into account. Zu is young and still on the upswing while DJ is likely in the throes of his proverbial athletic cliff. Athletic bigs tend to age more like milk than wine; which frustrates things since the buyout market will likely be populated by bigs in this stage. Zu, conversely, is a relatively cheap but consistent alternative.



Zu gets the edge IMO but would teams think the $5M difference in salary from DJ or Drummond is worth it or would it be better spent elsewhere? Zu has been mentioned as attractive trade bait but that's questionable now. And is he really on the upswing or has he plateaued?

Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:34 pm
by Roscoe Sheed
Wammy Giveaway wrote:


If this comes to pass, it'll be the same thing like with Chris Paul: will Clippers be willing to defeat someone they once truly loved?

none of the players on last season's Clippers team "loved" him. They didn't play with him on the Clippers, so why would there be any extra emotion on their side?

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:57 pm
by TheNewEra
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Goner wrote:
While this is true, their respective trajectories must be taken into account. Zu is young and still on the upswing while DJ is likely in the throes of his proverbial athletic cliff. Athletic bigs tend to age more like milk than wine; which frustrates things since the buyout market will likely be populated by bigs in this stage. Zu, conversely, is a relatively cheap but consistent alternative.



Zu gets the edge IMO but would teams think the $5M difference in salary from DJ or Drummond is worth it or would it be better spent elsewhere? Zu has been mentioned as attractive trade bait but that's questionable now. And is he really on the upswing or has he plateaued?

Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort


How has Zu even peaked when he barely turned 24? The man isn’t even close to his prime yet

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:07 am
by esqtvd
TheNewEra wrote:
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Zu gets the edge IMO but would teams think the $5M difference in salary from DJ or Drummond is worth it or would it be better spent elsewhere? Zu has been mentioned as attractive trade bait but that's questionable now. And is he really on the upswing or has he plateaued?

Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort


How has Zu even peaked when he barely turned 24? The man isn’t even close to his prime yet


Because he's the same player he was at 22? Or even backslid a bit?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html#per_minute

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html#per_poss


But even giving him the nod over DJ and Drummond, is he $5M better? I doubt other teams think so.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:20 am
by TheNewEra
esqtvd wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
Goner wrote:Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort


How has Zu even peaked when he barely turned 24? The man isn’t even close to his prime yet


Because he's the same player he was at 22? Or even backslid a bit?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html#per_minute

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html#per_poss


But even giving him the nod over DJ and Drummond, is he $5M better? I doubt other teams think so.


You are comparing a season he got traded mid year to a season he had to come off the bench for half a season. Zubac proved this year he can still move around to whatever the team needs from him and the Andre Drummond comparison just seems way off.

Not only is Drummond 4 years older but he has extreme attitude problems. Zubac being able to handle the starting role for half a season with no real backup is a bonus. I’m sure the Lakers would of traded Drummond for Zu last season if they could

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:48 am
by Goner
TheNewEra wrote:
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Zu gets the edge IMO but would teams think the $5M difference in salary from DJ or Drummond is worth it or would it be better spent elsewhere? Zu has been mentioned as attractive trade bait but that's questionable now. And is he really on the upswing or has he plateaued?

Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort


How has Zu even peaked when he barely turned 24? The man isn’t even close to his prime yet

I never said Zu has peaked, in fact I expect the opposite to be true. My argument was either Zu has peaked or he hasn't. If he hasn't then he's more valuable than buyout-market bigs (e.g. Dj, Drummond). If he has, then he's still more valuable than THOSE buyout bigs due to his youthful motor.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:57 am
by TheNewEra
Goner wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
Goner wrote:Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort


How has Zu even peaked when he barely turned 24? The man isn’t even close to his prime yet

I never said Zu has peaked, in fact I expect the opposite to be true. My argument was either Zu has peaked or he hasn't. If he hasn't then he's more valuable than buyout-market bigs (e.g. Dj, Drummond). If he has, then he's still more valuable than THOSE buyout bigs due to his youthful motor.


More to the other comment like how is it possible to peak when he was 23 last year? Man is nowhere near his prime years yet and the situation with Ibaka made everything up in the air

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:20 am
by TrueLAfan
Really, I don't think resigning DJ would have anything to do with Zu or his upside. We're looking for a #4/#5 frontcourt player; basically a garbage time and/or insurance policy player. Thing is, with Ibaka coming off an injury, we may need a little of that insurance. Maybe.

The minus for DJ, of course, is that he’s a “traditional” C; it’s the same role as Zu, and neither can really play at PF. That also means that having DJ as a rotation player coming in for Zu would keep our offensive sets pretty similar—which can also be a good or bad thing. He’d be better paired with a C that had range, IMO. But, like I said, it doesn’t matter much for what we’re looking for, which is really 2Pat’s replacement; a (very) low rotation guy. at this stage, DJ still has the skills to be a much higher rotation player in the NBA. Which brings me back to ... he'd be a good deal for the minimum.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:24 pm
by esqtvd
TrueLAfan wrote:Really, I don't think resigning DJ would have anything to do with Zu or his upside. We're looking for a #4/#5 frontcourt player; basically a garbage time and/or insurance policy player. Thing is, with Ibaka coming off an injury, we may need a little of that insurance. Maybe.

The minus for DJ, of course, is that he’s a “traditional” C; it’s the same role as Zu, and neither can really play at PF. That also means that having DJ as a rotation player coming in for Zu would keep our offensive sets pretty similar—which can also be a good or bad thing. He’d be better paired with a C that had range, IMO. But, like I said, it doesn’t matter much for what we’re looking for, which is really 2Pat’s replacement; a (very) low rotation guy. at this stage, DJ still has the skills to be a much higher rotation player in the NBA. Which brings me back to ... he'd be a good deal for the minimum.



Yes, DJ probably can get more burn elsewhere. And thank you--Zu has always had his vociferous fans but recognizing his limitations is not criticism. The only question raised here is whether he's $5M better than Drummond or DJ, who does* more or less the same things. Regarding his trade value, I would say the league probably does not think so.

As for whether he's peaked, I don't see any improvement in his game this year over last, just as Drummond and DJ are pretty much the same players as when they entered the league. On the whole, you is what you is.

______________________________

*Sounds weird but is grammatically correct :)

When "or" or "nor" joins two things, use a singular verb if both things are singular.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:53 pm
by lautreamont
TheNewEra wrote:
Goner wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Zu gets the edge IMO but would teams think the $5M difference in salary from DJ or Drummond is worth it or would it be better spent elsewhere? Zu has been mentioned as attractive trade bait but that's questionable now. And is he really on the upswing or has he plateaued?

Even if Zu has plateaued, I still think his motor and youth take priority, while DJ and Drummond are notorious for inconsistent effort


How has Zu even peaked when he barely turned 24? The man isn’t even close to his prime yet


I think what we have seen from Zu is what he is. He doesn't have a lot of upside. He's a decent role player.

Re: The Dangers Of Reunions

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:02 pm
by donemilio21
Look at what a player has done most recently and not what he has done 5 years ago.
DJ wasn't playable for Nets in playoffs just a few months ago, and he was healthy. We shouldn't sign him.
Same reason I laugh at Lakers for signing Rondo. He was unplayable in playoffs. All he can do is take Dudley's spot and dance on the bench for them. lol.