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Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT

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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#61 » by esqtvd » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:03 am

TheNewEra wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:

He shot 7-10 with 18 points god damn. That lead and the game getting that close had nothing to do with him



Before tonight, Zu had the worst plus/minus on the team except for Winslow. And he remains a weak finisher at the basket. Just telling it like it is. Is he Crunch Time/Prime Time yet? No, not yet. He got stuffed twice in a row on gimmes. It was a tighter finish than it could have been.

I agree with Ty sticking with him esp since Zu is showing some post moves. He had his best game of the year tonight.



You see the lineups and struggle shooting units he had to play with in his minutes? His scoring has been a underrated part of the early season. He is literally seeing career highs in his advanced scoring and shooting statistics. Going 7-10 is still 7-10 and two blocks doesn’t take away from his amazing scoring night.

He helped finish these last two games and a couple before these games. Zu didn’t get the last minute of the game but it was obvious the Hartenstein thing wasn’t working all night. He earned the right to try against Lowry but a player like that in the zone it’s difficult. Even with Lowry going off before he came in he helped chip in on the lead and finished with your favorite stat +7. That’s completely unfair to expect Zu to slow down Lowry when he built up a rhythm before he stepped on the court.



Don't get me wrong, bro. I don't think Hartenstein is some magic wand who will fill those 25 mpg instead. Besides, the Hart-Mann-Kennard thing should not be broken up--it's taking the place of the Lou & Trezz show and is keeping this team afloat.

I was talking about Zu in Crunch Time. I wanted 25 mpg from him even when he was splitting minutes with Trezz. And I still do. But in the 4th quarter? In the playoffs? No, I don't see it and never will. Trad 5s are toast.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#62 » by TheNewEra » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 am

I still see some hope and regardless of the frustration this team pulled off a major win. On to the next one
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Post#63 » by Wammy Giveaway » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:31 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:Duncan Robinson's contract has to be one of the worst in the league. He got paid $90 million and immediately turned into Jerome Robinson. Not sure what Miami was thinking there.


For lack of a better word, they got "suckered." This is kind of a pattern: player pulls off some crazy feat in their contract year, it convinces Heat that he's a keeper, future All-Star even. Robinson became the fastest player in NBA history to reach 500 3-pointers with 152 games needed, beating out Luka Doncic's accomplishment by 35 games (187). He also helped Heat reach NBA Finals in 2020. As a result, Heat rewarded him.

Robinson is basically in a contract slump, get a new bigger contract, your stats take a hit. It'll take some time for him to get back to regular numbers. However, if his new contract results in a poor performance, he may end up being one of those guys who has to take less in order to perform well.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#64 » by Clemenza » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:03 pm

Its only a matter of time until Lue will have to find a way to squeeze this kid somewhere into the second unit. He can already take Winslow's minutes easily

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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#65 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:19 pm

esqtvd wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Before tonight, Zu had the worst plus/minus on the team except for Winslow. And he remains a weak finisher at the basket. Just telling it like it is. Is he Crunch Time/Prime Time yet? No, not yet. He got stuffed twice in a row on gimmes. It was a tighter finish than it could have been.

I agree with Ty sticking with him esp since Zu is showing some post moves. He had his best game of the year tonight.



You see the lineups and struggle shooting units he had to play with in his minutes? His scoring has been a underrated part of the early season. He is literally seeing career highs in his advanced scoring and shooting statistics. Going 7-10 is still 7-10 and two blocks doesn’t take away from his amazing scoring night.

He helped finish these last two games and a couple before these games. Zu didn’t get the last minute of the game but it was obvious the Hartenstein thing wasn’t working all night. He earned the right to try against Lowry but a player like that in the zone it’s difficult. Even with Lowry going off before he came in he helped chip in on the lead and finished with your favorite stat +7. That’s completely unfair to expect Zu to slow down Lowry when he built up a rhythm before he stepped on the court.


Don't get me wrong, bro. I don't think Hartenstein is some magic wand who will fill those 25 mpg instead. Besides, the Hart-Mann-Kennard thing should not be broken up--it's taking the place of the Lou & Trezz show and is keeping this team afloat.

I was talking about Zu in Crunch Time. I wanted 25 mpg from him even when he was splitting minutes with Trezz. And I still do. But in the 4th quarter? In the playoffs? No, I don't see it and never will. Trad 5s are toast.


I think it's entirely situational/match-up based whether Zu should be playing in crunch times. As is his overall minutes any given night, really. I like Zu, but with traditional centers it is often a square peg/ round hole thing now. When the situation requires the square peg I really like him on the floor, but when a round hole we shouldn't force it.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#66 » by esqtvd » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:31 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:

You see the lineups and struggle shooting units he had to play with in his minutes? His scoring has been a underrated part of the early season. He is literally seeing career highs in his advanced scoring and shooting statistics. Going 7-10 is still 7-10 and two blocks doesn’t take away from his amazing scoring night.

He helped finish these last two games and a couple before these games. Zu didn’t get the last minute of the game but it was obvious the Hartenstein thing wasn’t working all night. He earned the right to try against Lowry but a player like that in the zone it’s difficult. Even with Lowry going off before he came in he helped chip in on the lead and finished with your favorite stat +7. That’s completely unfair to expect Zu to slow down Lowry when he built up a rhythm before he stepped on the court.


Don't get me wrong, bro. I don't think Hartenstein is some magic wand who will fill those 25 mpg instead. Besides, the Hart-Mann-Kennard thing should not be broken up--it's taking the place of the Lou & Trezz show and is keeping this team afloat.

I was talking about Zu in Crunch Time. I wanted 25 mpg from him even when he was splitting minutes with Trezz. And I still do. But in the 4th quarter? In the playoffs? No, I don't see it and never will. Trad 5s are toast.


I think it's entirely situational/match-up based whether Zu should be playing in crunch times. As is his overall minutes any given night, really. I like Zu, but with traditional centers it is often a square peg/ round hole thing now. When the situation requires the square peg I really like him on the floor, but when a round hole we shouldn't force it.



Ty said exactly that in the postgame--"The only one I know is going to be out there [at crunch time] is PG." :D
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#67 » by MartinToVaught » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:04 pm

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It's nice to have a coach who admits and takes responsibility for his mistakes instead of using certain players as scapegoats.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#68 » by Dynamix » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:18 pm

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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#69 » by ShaqFTs » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:34 pm

the main conclusion im coming to is just how awful a fit Kawhi and PG are together. PG looks like a different player as a centerpiece without having to placate to Kawhi. And Kawhi is Kawih, one of the best in the world. It's just a poor fit from both of them, but we'll see how this group does without Kawhi presumably for the whole season.

Maybe if PG does get that MVP season, Kawhi comes back as the #2 instead of how it was last year.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#70 » by playaloc916 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:16 am

Tough win, shouldn't have been as close as it was, but the heat just got a crazy amount of offensive boards leading to a bunch of extra possessions.

BledShow with his first "good" game this season. Hopefully he's getting more comfortable with the team and the plays. If he can contribute even half of that on a consistent basis, that would be huge. I also liked when Reginald kept driving and getting layups. If he switches up like that, he's pretty hard to defend.

@ esqtvd - it looks like our glue guy swiss army knife is back to poking holes into the other teams... That clutch defensive play at the end... c'est magnifique!
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#71 » by esqtvd » Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:48 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter


It's nice to have a coach who admits and takes responsibility for his mistakes instead of using certain players as scapegoats.



Not a mistake, though. Ty tried to put in some new wrinkles but the boyz couldn't pull it off. So Ty pulled the plug. He's just saying here that it wasn't as bad as it looked. I'm sure the wrinkles will be back but they aren't ready for prime time yet.

With our putrid starts in most games this year, Ty had to try SOMETHING with this starting crew. But this didn't work either. So Ty pulls the plug on the experiment...and the irony is that Bledsoe and Zubac went on to have their most solid games of the year doing what they usually do. :dontknow:
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#72 » by esqtvd » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:02 am

ShaqFTs wrote:the main conclusion im coming to is just how awful a fit Kawhi and PG are together. PG looks like a different player as a centerpiece without having to placate to Kawhi. And Kawhi is Kawih, one of the best in the world. It's just a poor fit from both of them, but we'll see how this group does without Kawhi presumably for the whole season.

Maybe if PG does get that MVP season, Kawhi comes back as the #2 instead of how it was last year.



You're onto something here. Kawhi doesn't want to be the #1 here---or ANYWHERE. I think he re-signed for 4 years instead of ONE because of how PG stepped up in his absence in the playoffs. I think if Pandemic P had reappeared, Kawhi was OUTTA HERE.

Put it this way--any team that has Kawhi as its #2 is probably gonna be in the Finals. If/when Kawhi comes back it's gonna be as #1a. Kawhi has no interest in being MJ or Kobe or LeBron. Too much work, too many interviews. Kawhi is the greatest complementary player of all time, even better than Pippen. [Not as good as Magic, though. But close. Magic had more to work with.]

The Bubble meltdown was instructive--when PG melted down, so did Kawhi. Think about it.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#73 » by MartinToVaught » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:22 am

esqtvd wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter


It's nice to have a coach who admits and takes responsibility for his mistakes instead of using certain players as scapegoats.



Not a mistake, though. Ty tried to put in some new wrinkles but the boyz couldn't pull it off. So Ty pulled the plug. He's just saying here that it wasn't as bad as it looked. I'm sure the wrinkles will be back but they aren't ready for prime time yet.

With our putrid starts in most games this year, Ty had to try SOMETHING with this starting crew. But this didn't work either. So Ty pulls the plug on the experiment...and the irony is that Bledsoe and Zubac went on to have their most solid games of the year doing what they usually do. :dontknow:

It's also nice to have a coach who tries something new instead of setting his gameplan in October and never deviating from it for the rest of the season.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#74 » by esqtvd » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:26 am

playaloc916 wrote:Tough win, shouldn't have been as close as it was, but the heat just got a crazy amount of offensive boards leading to a bunch of extra possessions.

BledShow with his first "good" game this season. Hopefully he's getting more comfortable with the team and the plays. If he can contribute even half of that on a consistent basis, that would be huge. I also liked when Reginald kept driving and getting layups. If he switches up like that, he's pretty hard to defend.

@ esqtvd - it looks like our glue guy swiss army knife is back to poking holes into the other teams... That clutch defensive play at the end... c'est magnifique!



A good place to point out that the Heat have a winning culture too. They were undermanned [no Butler!] and gave us hell--off an OT back-to-back vs the Lakers. On the ROAD!!

--Our boy Reggie keep paying dividends. After his career was in the toilet--bought out by the Detroit ****?? And after a so-so stint with the Clips brought back at the league minimum as a 14th-man "mercy f*k" lol? I don't know what he did in his head or with his life but I'm proud to be a Reggie fan.

--Is BledShow next? Another guy where what was going on in his head never matched up with what his body was doing--or the scorecard after the game.

It's The Peter Principle--You keep getting promoted until you reach one level above your competence and then you SUCK. Same think happened to Batum. Glue Guy got paid like a Superstar and tried to justify his salary. And he SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was not treated unfairly, lol. So now what are we gonna do with my Least Favorite Clipper, Marcus Morris? :lol:
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#75 » by esqtvd » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:40 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
Read on Twitter


It's nice to have a coach who admits and takes responsibility for his mistakes instead of using certain players as scapegoats.



Not a mistake, though. Ty tried to put in some new wrinkles but the boyz couldn't pull it off. So Ty pulled the plug. He's just saying here that it wasn't as bad as it looked. I'm sure the wrinkles will be back but they aren't ready for prime time yet.

With our putrid starts in most games this year, Ty had to try SOMETHING with this starting crew. But this didn't work either. So Ty pulls the plug on the experiment...and the irony is that Bledsoe and Zubac went on to have their most solid games of the year doing what they usually do. :dontknow:

It's also nice to have a coach who tries something new instead of setting his gameplan in October and never deviating from it for the rest of the season.



Well, you want both sides of the argument so by definition you win either way. :wink:

I like what Ty is doing and Doc is doing his crisis management thing in Philly with that psycho f*k Simmons and with Embiid and Tobias out and the kids kicking ass like his Gallo-Shai-Shamet miracle playoff team.

It's all good. To me the difference between Doc's Clippers and Ty's Clippers is Pandemic P vs Playoff P.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#76 » by esqtvd » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:46 am

Dynamix wrote:
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Dang!

FTR, I AM a fan of makeup calls. Refs are only human. You realize a few moments later that you blew it, justice should be done :wink:

This is supposed to be fun, and the reason we love sports is that it's more art than science. Otherwise let's just let robots fight.

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I think that "should have been an offensive foul" was Lowry kicking his foot out trying to draw the whistle--which acc to this year's new rules is an OFFENSIVE foul. I'm good with that because it's a cheap trick that is now outlawed. But in the context of the game, it should simply be ignored. He DID hit the 3-pointer fair and square. Soon this will be a non-call when that trick doesn't work anymore.

BTW--Steph Curry isn't suffering a bit from this rule change; Harden is suffering BIGTIME. :wink:
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#77 » by Clemenza » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:13 am

esqtvd wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Not a mistake, though. Ty tried to put in some new wrinkles but the boyz couldn't pull it off. So Ty pulled the plug. He's just saying here that it wasn't as bad as it looked. I'm sure the wrinkles will be back but they aren't ready for prime time yet.

With our putrid starts in most games this year, Ty had to try SOMETHING with this starting crew. But this didn't work either. So Ty pulls the plug on the experiment...and the irony is that Bledsoe and Zubac went on to have their most solid games of the year doing what they usually do. :dontknow:

It's also nice to have a coach who tries something new instead of setting his gameplan in October and never deviating from it for the rest of the season.



Well, you want both sides of the argument so by definition you win either way. :wink:

I like what Ty is doing and Doc is doing his crisis management thing in Philly with that psycho f*k Simmons and with Embiid and Tobias out and the kids kicking ass like his Gallo-Shai-Shamet miracle playoff team.

It's all good. To me the difference between Doc's Clippers and Ty's Clippers is Pandemic P vs Playoff P.

And a coach that continued to throw an undersized Trez, who was also dealing with other issues, up against Jokic and praying to death for a better result over and over and over again but it never happened. Also throw in the fact that Lemon Pepper Lou had checked out of the bubble mentally and physically. PG definitely had his struggles and issues but overall it was much much more deeper than just that
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#78 » by madmaxmedia » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:42 pm

ShaqFTs wrote:the main conclusion im coming to is just how awful a fit Kawhi and PG are together. PG looks like a different player as a centerpiece without having to placate to Kawhi. And Kawhi is Kawih, one of the best in the world. It's just a poor fit from both of them, but we'll see how this group does without Kawhi presumably for the whole season.

Maybe if PG does get that MVP season, Kawhi comes back as the #2 instead of how it was last year.


I don't think they are a horrible combo but it is a situation with overlapping skillsets- they are both highly skilled wings after all. I think a truly bad combo is when there are holes that neither player covers due to their individual deficiencies.

I do think Lue is noticing their individual vs. combo dynamic, and will try to maximize overall team success as we hopefully get both back at the end of the season. Kawhi is generally more efficient but Paul is a better team initiator. I also think Kawhi would be largely the #2 if he makes it back this year, if only due to rustiness.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#79 » by esqtvd » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:15 pm

Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:It's also nice to have a coach who tries something new instead of setting his gameplan in October and never deviating from it for the rest of the season.



Well, you want both sides of the argument so by definition you win either way. :wink:

I like what Ty is doing and Doc is doing his crisis management thing in Philly with that psycho f*k Simmons and with Embiid and Tobias out and the kids kicking ass like his Gallo-Shai-Shamet miracle playoff team.

It's all good. To me the difference between Doc's Clippers and Ty's Clippers is Pandemic P vs Playoff P.

And a coach that continued to throw an undersized Trez, who was also dealing with other issues, up against Jokic and praying to death for a better result over and over and over again but it never happened. Also throw in the fact that Lemon Pepper Lou had checked out of the bubble mentally and physically. PG definitely had his struggles and issues but overall it was much much more deeper than just that



And benched Zubac against GSW the year before when he couldn't cut it. And DID cut Trezz's minutes and DID play Zubac at career-high minutes the next year. Round and round we go. And I didn't make up "Pandemic P." He was universally mocked for his atrocious performance and subsequent alibis all across the basketball world. And it was he who threw the shade at others.

Read on Twitter
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Let it go. Doc took the fall and for his part, PG came back a new man. Most importantly, I don't think Kawhi re-signs here for 4 years unless PG did. I think PG's performance getting us to the WCF had a bigger impact on franchise history than we know.
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Re: Game 11 : Miami Heat @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 11 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#80 » by Clemenza » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:26 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:
esqtvd wrote:

Well, you want both sides of the argument so by definition you win either way. :wink:

I like what Ty is doing and Doc is doing his crisis management thing in Philly with that psycho f*k Simmons and with Embiid and Tobias out and the kids kicking ass like his Gallo-Shai-Shamet miracle playoff team.

It's all good. To me the difference between Doc's Clippers and Ty's Clippers is Pandemic P vs Playoff P.

And a coach that continued to throw an undersized Trez, who was also dealing with other issues, up against Jokic and praying to death for a better result over and over and over again but it never happened. Also throw in the fact that Lemon Pepper Lou had checked out of the bubble mentally and physically. PG definitely had his struggles and issues but overall it was much much more deeper than just that



And benched Zubac against GSW the year before when he couldn't cut it. And DID cut Trezz's minutes and DID play Zubac at career-high minutes the next year. Round and round we go. And I didn't make up "Pandemic P." He was universally mocked for his atrocious performance and subsequent alibis all across the basketball world. And it was he who threw the shade at others.

Read on Twitter
?


Let it go. Doc took the fall and for his part, PG came back a new man. Most importantly, I don't think Kawhi re-signs here for 4 years unless PG did. I think PG's performance getting us to the WCF had a bigger impact on franchise history than we know.



Lets stop bringing it up then

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