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Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake

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Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#1 » by Kelphus » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:51 pm

https://youtu.be/dv18tcdl1zI

From JJ's podcast, interesting watch.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#2 » by esqtvd » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:17 pm

Look in the mirror, Blake. Basketball was always just a job to you. You punched a clock. And once you punched out...well, you punched out. :lol:

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5475079/something-sinister-made-blake-griffin-slug-a-friend
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#3 » by og15 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:24 am

A few things, they had weak wings in a league where having solid wings is very important. Matt Barnes / JJ Redick / Jamal Crawford as your SG/SF rotation is the least size, athleticism and defense you'll find in any of the Western contenders.

(Spurs: Leonard/Ginobili/Green)
(Warriors: Thompson/Iguodala/Barnes)
(Thunder: Durant/Roberson/Waiters)
(Rockets: Harden/Ariza/Brewer)

Clippers top defender Barnes tried, but he was the weakest and least versatile top defender of all those teams. Barnes could guard bigger 2's, 3's and smaller 4's, but couldn't guard 1's. Roberson, Green, Leonard, Thompson, Iguodala and Ariza would all guard 1-3 and smaller 4's.

All those teams except Houston who started Harden had two good to great defensive players at the 2/3. None of those teams started a 6'3 SG with PG length at SG. All of those teams had 2/3's who were capable of helping out with rim protection on rotations. The deficiency on the wing adds up, and the further you go in playoff series' and the better opponents you play, matchups become more important. All of those teams also didn't generally guard Paul with their PG most of the game, and certainly not their star PG, while Paul had to guard them as they rested on Matt Barnes, that adds up on who is more fresh later in games, and it also affects who has an easier time getting shots off late in games if Paul is being guarded by 6'6+ guys while the opposing PG star has 6'0 Paul who is a good defender, but still someone they can shoot over guarding them.

They never had good enough depth, and their third "star" was not versatile enough. Then add injuries to the mix, and that cancelled out any contention in 12-13, 15-16 and 16-17 even if they theoretically could have.

That's 3/6 seasons they played, and their first season they were nothing close to a contender. So they had a two year window 13-14 and 14-15 where they could have won if everything played out perfectly because they simply were not a good enough team if things didn't work out perfectly.

In a way, basically similar reasons to why OKC post-Harden who had more size and length as a team and their top stars were not height and length challenged at their positions also never won a title or got to the finals again. OKC had shooting holes instead of length and defense holes, and they had injuries too, 12-13 and 14-15 on of their two stars was out, so they also had only two years of contention before Durant left. 13-14 lost to Spurs, 14-15 lost to GSW, no real shame there, just not good enough.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#4 » by NickP » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:27 pm

Coaching?
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#5 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:38 am

Imagine still milking this for clicks and views in 2021. This isn’t even a remotely interesting topic anymore and was played out after CP n JJ did it.

We weren’t good enough.
Blake wasn’t a superstar. He was a star.
Our wings were trash in an elite wing league.

And our coach was garbage.

Next subject.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#6 » by MartinToVaught » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:59 pm

esqtvd wrote:Look in the mirror, Blake. Basketball was always just a job to you. You punched a clock. And once you punched out...well, you punched out. :lol:

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5475079/something-sinister-made-blake-griffin-slug-a-friend

Total nonsense as usual. Blake was one of the hardest-working players in the league in his prime and expanded his game to an impressive degree. You just keep pretending otherwise to deflect the blame off of your guys Doc and CP3.

The only thing that derailed Blake's career was injuries. The other narratives are just TMZ tabloid fodder.

I'm with Quake, FWIW. The Lob City post-mortems are played out. I've always said that the 2008 Celtics' title has been the most milked championship since the Miracle Mets. Lob City has been milking a bunch of first- and second-round exits just as hard as the Celtics have milked that championship.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#7 » by esqtvd » Yesterday 12:23 am

Straw man. Nobody said Blake loafed on the court but the facts are there: Ballmer packed Blake off in a Microsoft minute when it became clear he was not just a bad leader, but a net negative for team chemistry. Proving the problem was never CP, who was almost as obnoxious as the Mamba, but also delivered the goods.

And with a minute left and down 2, Blake was simply not your guy. His arsenal was a crap jumper or trying to back his man down in agonizingly slow motion, getting off a crap shot against the double-team with the shot clock expiring---and then whining at the refs for not getting the call.

    The Clippers are more apt to turn to Jamal Crawford in the stretch of tight games than Griffin. In all, Griffin takes just 12.1 shots per 40 minutes in the fourth quarter and scores 16.4 points, which puts him just below Corey Brewer and just ahead of Tristan Thompson. This is not the kind of company an alleged first-tier star should be keeping.

    As the chart shows, Griffin has taken fewer shots in the fourth quarter each season he has been in the league.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/story/2013-10-09/blake-griffin-clippers-stats-fourth-quarter-vertical-chris-paul-deandre-jordan

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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#8 » by esqtvd » Yesterday 4:56 am

MartinToVaught wrote:
I'm with Quake, FWIW. The Lob City post-mortems are played out. I've always said that the 2008 Celtics' title has been the most milked championship since the Miracle Mets. Lob City has been milking a bunch of first- and second-round exits just as hard as the Celtics have milked that championship.



Leaving my own pleasant self out of your and Brother Quake's FWIW, The Miracle Mets are what it's all about in Clipper Nation. Yankees. Lakers. Etc. The second team in a one-team town.

The Angels won it all in 2002. The Marlins won TWO cheap championships and they play to empty seats. And I'll say it again--LeBron's cheap Disney championship will not go down next to West's and Magic's and Kobe's. It was a one-year freak, and will leave the Lakers franchise worse off.

Hey, the Yankees always come back. So do the Lakers. And the Celtics? Interesting--GM Genius Ainge is out and Genius Coach Brad Steven is kicked upstairs. And Celts still suck ass.

I'm with Quake, FWIW. The Lob City post-mortems are played out.


Well, as you [sort of] say, it was a exciting and charismatic team. And consistently won 50+ games after decades of misery. But did you REALLY think they were ever title contenders???

I never did. I don't think THEY ever did--because they never played like it. For Blake and DJ this was always just a job. Put in your hours, put up your numbers, and clock out. $300,000 a game, win or lose. Sweet.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#9 » by MartinToVaught » Yesterday 6:49 am

Of course they weren't contenders. Neither of the coaches were good enough. The first option (and highest-paid player) also wasn't good enough.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#10 » by Kelphus » Yesterday 6:51 am

Blake got smaller under pressure. Still does.
You can’t coach around that
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#11 » by Clemenza » Yesterday 7:18 am

It was a very top heavy team without much of a bench past JJ and Jamal Crawford. Plus no 3andD wings on the team. Also there were times where if it wasn't injuries CP3 and Blake seemed like they didn't want to seize the moment in big games, Blake played hot potato, CP3 wouldn't shoot the ball when we needed scoring, and both seemed to defer to Jamal Crawford. And lets not forget the biggest culprit in this -Doc Rivers who was the coach and GM at the time so it was definitely Choke City
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#12 » by esqtvd » Yesterday 7:59 am

Clemenza wrote:It was a very top heavy team without much of a bench past JJ and Jamal Crawford. Plus no 3andD wings on the team. Also there were times where if it wasn't injuries CP3 and Blake seemed like they didn't want to seize the moment in big games, Blake played hot potato, CP3 wouldn't shoot the ball when we needed scoring, and both seemed to defer to Jamal Crawford. And lets not forget the biggest culprit in this -Doc Rivers who was the coach and GM at the time so it was definitely Choke City



Frankly--and forget the playoff chokes--they never really got all that close to a title. That was an illusion. The best they finished was the 3rd seed and one of those was when GSW won 67 games and cruised to the title.

The more they talk, the more they realize it was on them, not the coach. Or the GM. CP, BG and DJ ate up most of the salary cap. At the end--only 2015, 2 years in??!!--Doc tried to dump DJ but they pulled the Emoji thing

Read on Twitter


Nobody stepped up when it counted. Nobody led. CP tried to, but BG and DJ resisted at every turn and could/would not lead either. CP has gone onto the Finals and is now leading the league in assists at age 36. BG and DJ are minimum-wage bench players at age 33, each bought out by their previous team to GTFOH.

A little too much drama about all this. If any of these Clippers had actually gone on to win a title or even an MVP, they wouldn't even be still talking about it. They're crying in their beer because they know none of them did their best. That part is the truth.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#13 » by esqtvd » Yesterday 8:13 am

Kelphus wrote:Blake got smaller under pressure. Still does.
You can’t coach around that


Fact. :-(

The Clippers are more apt to turn to Jamal Crawford in the stretch of tight games than Griffin. In all, Griffin takes just 12.1 shots per 40 minutes in the fourth quarter and scores 16.4 points, which puts him just below Corey Brewer and just ahead of Tristan Thompson. This is not the kind of company an alleged first-tier star should be keeping.

As the chart shows, Griffin has taken fewer shots in the fourth quarter each season he has been in the league.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/story/2013-10-09/blake-griffin-clippers-stats-fourth-quarter-vertical-chris-paul-deandre-jordan



And JJ was a second-half disappearing act and DJ had no post game and was a FT disaster. There was no one to turn to.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#14 » by MartinToVaught » Yesterday 2:58 pm

Kelphus wrote:Blake got smaller under pressure. Still does.
You can’t coach around that

CP3 got smaller under pressure. So did Doc.

Blake isn't the one who fouled Westbrook and turned it over. Blake isn't the one who got shut down by Prigioni and Terry. Blake isn't the one who told Jamal to guard Joe Johnson.

Blake was always the scapegoat for people who refused to admit that our coach and our first option weren't good enough.
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#15 » by nickhx2 » Yesterday 3:48 pm

Clemenza wrote:It was a very top heavy team without much of a bench past JJ and Jamal Crawford. Plus no 3andD wings on the team. Also there were times where if it wasn't injuries CP3 and Blake seemed like they didn't want to seize the moment in big games, Blake played hot potato, CP3 wouldn't shoot the ball when we needed scoring, and both seemed to defer to Jamal Crawford. And lets not forget the biggest culprit in this -Doc Rivers who was the coach and GM at the time so it was definitely Choke City



I'd disagree that Jamal Crawford was part our bench because it implies he was some valuable contributor lol. agree with the rest though. when discussing the failures of this era , all roads lead though doc rivers
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Re: Looking back... Why Clips didn't win a title, per Reddick and Blake 

Post#16 » by Clemenza » Yesterday 7:06 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Clemenza wrote:It was a very top heavy team without much of a bench past JJ and Jamal Crawford. Plus no 3andD wings on the team. Also there were times where if it wasn't injuries CP3 and Blake seemed like they didn't want to seize the moment in big games, Blake played hot potato, CP3 wouldn't shoot the ball when we needed scoring, and both seemed to defer to Jamal Crawford. And lets not forget the biggest culprit in this -Doc Rivers who was the coach and GM at the time so it was definitely Choke City



Frankly--and forget the playoff chokes--they never really got all that close to a title. That was an illusion. The best they finished was the 3rd seed and one of those was when GSW won 67 games and cruised to the title.

The more they talk, the more they realize it was on them, not the coach. Or the GM. CP, BG and DJ ate up most of the salary cap. At the end--only 2015, 2 years in??!!--Doc tried to dump DJ but they pulled the Emoji thing

Read on Twitter


Nobody stepped up when it counted. Nobody led. CP tried to, but BG and DJ resisted at every turn and could/would not lead either. CP has gone onto the Finals and is now leading the league in assists at age 36. BG and DJ are minimum-wage bench players at age 33, each bought out by their previous team to GTFOH.

A little too much drama about all this. If any of these Clippers had actually gone on to win a title or even an MVP, they wouldn't even be still talking about it. They're crying in their beer because they know none of them did their best. That part is the truth.

My real true gripes with CP3 was him bringing the offense to a crawl which was mostly a regular season thing as most offenses come to a crawl in the playoffs. But the one beef I had with him was that I thought he would control and curate the 19 point lead we had going into the 4th quarter against the Rockets in the playoff game. Not saying others aren't to blame but that situation imo was hand delivered for him to 'bring us home'. The team was pretty much done after that choke.

I'm technically a Blake guy but and we all were pretty much chasing the high of his rookie season which was mindblowning and incredible thing to behold. But he changed once CP3 came. The offense changed with Paul in control of everything. The fast breaks and lobs were far and few in between. But after he leaped over the Kia at All Star Weekend he went Hollywood and the game started to seem secondary to him. Shied away from big moments, punched the trainer and broke his hand, injuries, team moved on from CP3 and Blake still wasn't a leader, etc. I didn't like CP3's State Farm ad's as well. Especially the one where he's down the escalator and Step Curry is going up the escalator. It mirrored our decline and GS's rise.

DJ was really bad on offense and at the free throw line so to me we never had a Big 3. That Hack-a-DJ era drove me insane. No back to the basket moves, no baby hook shot, no free throw line jumper, etc. Hell of rebound and rim protector though. Really we just needed that kick ass wing player. That would've helped out tremendously.

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