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Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT

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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#61 » by ShaqFTs » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:43 am

LamarWho wrote:This team needs a point guard bad. Does John Wall wanna be here?


that's a desperation move but depending on who we give up I'd be open to it.

at least his IQ is better than RWB
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#62 » by Captain Ballmer » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:57 am

Well, Porzingis was great lately but now good game from him even with Luka. Is J.Kidd better than Carlisle now? wow.

We can't expect the same results of last playoffs when the material we put in is way different(kind of small) such as No Kawhi-Batum, inserted midgets as Kennard and Bledsoe instead. We outmatched physically from Porzingis god damn.

I don't know about pointguard addition because I think more importantly we need someone to score efficiently in the paint(Miss you Kawhi)
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#63 » by esqtvd » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:17 am

Captain Ballmer wrote:Well, Porzingis was great lately but now good game from him even with Luka. Is J.Kidd better than Carlisle now? wow.

We can't expect the same results of last playoffs when the material we put in is way different(kind of small) such as No Kawhi-Batum, inserted midgets as Kennard and Bledsoe instead. We outmatched physically from Porzingis god damn.

I don't know about pointguard addition because I think more importantly we need someone to score efficiently in the paint(Miss you Kawhi)



Exactly. Reggie 31 points and HE'S the problem?? Not feeling any of this. The man's a hero. And PG plays 48 minutes. Hero too.

Zu had an ok game but otherwise nobody else showed up. Kennard 6 points in 32 minutes? And Mann fouled out in 19? wtf thats not what we pay you for
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#64 » by KL2 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:17 pm

Morris at least looks healthy. That was a welcomed sight.

Batum is sorely missed.

I understand we’ve had injuries but I can’t take this team seriously if Lue thinks Coffey is the answer. I hope but have no faith in Lue that once Johnson gets rolling again he’ll swap places with Coffey.
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#65 » by nickhx2 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:51 pm

- team's wracked by injuries
- lue has to play reserve greater minutes than before because the other options just aren't very good

but you are projecting lue as thinking coffey is the answer?

???
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#66 » by LamarWho » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Coffey will be back on the shelf :wink: once Batum comes back. But currently he's ahead of Boston in the rotation.

I thought he played decent last night, probably better than T-Mann.
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Revenge, Revenge, Revenge 

Post#67 » by Wammy Giveaway » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:44 pm

This was clearly a game the Mavericks HAD TO win. They knew clearly that Clippers were on a back-to-back skid, and if they were to get them while on their stay at the Staples Crypt, it would have been the Clipper's first 3-game losing streak of the season. Instead, thanks to their playoffs experience, Clippers prevented the 3-game losing streak, forcing Mavs to relive the playoff series that got away - one game away from a 3-0 series lead, which would have given Dallas the automatic win as no team in NBA history has ever come back from down 3-0. So they got this instead.

As it stands, the Clippers are just too small. Zubac has a peak, Ibaka is on a minutes restriction, Hartenstein is somewhat foul prone. Even though the center position has been dying out in favor of postionless basketball where jump shooting is king, they still need a traditional big to psyche opponents out. One who feasts at the rim one hundred percent, is content with his limitations, can go toe to toe against the opponent's own big foe, and more importantly, can spare the guards and shooters from having to do their own shots at the rim. The seven foot center may be dead, but Clippers need an equalizer.

Which is why I have a feeling that DeAndre Jordan may become available. There is a rumor within NBA circles that Lakers may look to trade him as they've not been pleased with his play, partly due to age but also because they signed him mainly as a secret weapon against the Clippers (originally they wanted Chris Paul). If Jordan gets released, what better team to reinvigorate his love of the game and defense than to go back to the team who drafted him and became the longest tenured Clipper of all time. They already have former Clipper Eric Bledsoe, and they've proven to be very good at resurrecting careers at the end of their ropes. Clippers were once the place where careers ended - not this era.
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#68 » by esqtvd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 am

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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#69 » by TrueLAfan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:37 am

I don't think we need/want DJ; he's still an old school center, and his production drop has almost as much to do with the game (continuing) to move away from him as it does his own declining skills. Even a moderately healthy Serge would be fine.

Part of that is because of Zu. Is Zu playing a lot better than in the past? No--except for one very important statistic. He's fouling 30% less than last year. That's a massive difference. Zu has been over a foul every 9 minutes for almost all of his career--and you can't keep a guy like that on the court very long, even if you want to. We talk about Zu's matchup issues and how he's a situational player--the fouls showed that. When he plays against smaller, more mobile Cs, he reaches and grabs ... and fouls. But he's cut down on that to some degree. He's a little better in positioning; he doesn't make as many dumb attempts to recover as he used to. This year he's under a foul every 12 minutes. He's at a career MPG high, almost 15% higher than last year. He'll never be a 35 mpg guy in the modern NBA--but the difference between getting 18-20 effective minutes every game and 24-28 minutes is substantial. Good for Zu. Lucky for us.
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Re: Revenge, Revenge, Revenge 

Post#70 » by TheNewEra » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:08 am

Wammy Giveaway wrote:This was clearly a game the Mavericks HAD TO win. They knew clearly that Clippers were on a back-to-back skid, and if they were to get them while on their stay at the Staples Crypt, it would have been the Clipper's first 3-game losing streak of the season. Instead, thanks to their playoffs experience, Clippers prevented the 3-game losing streak, forcing Mavs to relive the playoff series that got away - one game away from a 3-0 series lead, which would have given Dallas the automatic win as no team in NBA history has ever come back from down 3-0. So they got this instead.

As it stands, the Clippers are just too small. Zubac has a peak, Ibaka is on a minutes restriction, Hartenstein is somewhat foul prone. Even though the center position has been dying out in favor of postionless basketball where jump shooting is king, they still need a traditional big to psyche opponents out. One who feasts at the rim one hundred percent, is content with his limitations, can go toe to toe against the opponent's own big foe, and more importantly, can spare the guards and shooters from having to do their own shots at the rim. The seven foot center may be dead, but Clippers need an equalizer.

Which is why I have a feeling that DeAndre Jordan may become available. There is a rumor within NBA circles that Lakers may look to trade him as they've not been pleased with his play, partly due to age but also because they signed him mainly as a secret weapon against the Clippers (originally they wanted Chris Paul). If Jordan gets released, what better team to reinvigorate his love of the game and defense than to go back to the team who drafted him and became the longest tenured Clipper of all time. They already have former Clipper Eric Bledsoe, and they've proven to be very good at resurrecting careers at the end of their ropes. Clippers were once the place where careers ended - not this era.



None of what you wrote matches the reality of the current situation. How in the world is DeAndre Jordon going to help anyone at this point in his career ? What player have they rejuvenated and Bledsoe would be the exact opposite case for bringing older players back


How in the world the youngest of a bunch of players that’s actually giving us efficient points peaked ? What does that say about everyone else on the roster ?
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#71 » by TheNewEra » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:16 am

TrueLAfan wrote:I don't think we need/want DJ; he's still an old school center, and his production drop has almost as much to do with the game (continuing) to move away from him as it does his own declining skills. Even a moderately healthy Serge would be fine.

Part of that is because of Zu. Is Zu playing a lot better than in the past? No--except for one very important statistic. He's fouling 30% less than last year. That's a massive difference. Zu has been over a foul every 9 minutes for almost all of his career--and you can't keep a guy like that on the court very long, even if you want to. We talk about Zu's matchup issues and how he's a situational player--the fouls showed that. When he plays against smaller, more mobile Cs, he reaches and grabs ... and fouls. But he's cut down on that to some degree. He's a little better in positioning; he doesn't make as many dumb attempts to recover as he used to. This year he's under a foul every 12 minutes. He's at a career MPG high, almost 15% higher than last year. He'll never be a 35 mpg guy in the modern NBA--but the difference between getting 18-20 effective minutes every game and 24-28 minutes is substantial. Good for Zu. Lucky for us.


So he didn’t get better but got better at a aspect of defense by limiting his fouling ? So getting better at positioning and defending without fouling while having a bump up on points isn’t playing better?


How is this even a topic about him when so many other players are having near career low shooting years? Morris still looks a step slower, Mann and Kennard are both struggling as of late with their roles, George is having problems with efficient shooting and Reggie is trying to get his stats up from Pistons season bad. This is all while Ibaka still hasn’t been up to speed the Hartenstein lineups are getting more difficult on defense in a more restricted role, Bledsoe is having a season worse than and the team is still wrecked by multiple injuries. Yet come in here to see the topic is on Zu and DeAndre Jordan
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#72 » by TheNewEra » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:19 am

esqtvd wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
We're not allowed to say that around here. Welcome to the board politics. Fill you in later. ;-)


These takes aged so horribly and you trying to validate those ridiculous takes being slick after the clippers defense just got gangbanged is wild



Zu is Zu. Trezz was Trezz. Both rejects. Doc Rivers made NBA players out of both. That's the joke here bro. ;-)

You’re obsession with Trezz and Doc needs to seriously stop. Being passive aggressive against players on this team wont make anything better. Those guys have been gone for 2 seasons now it’s over
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#73 » by esqtvd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:32 am

TrueLAfan wrote:I don't think we need/want DJ; he's still an old school center, and his production drop has almost as much to do with the game (continuing) to move away from him as it does his own declining skills. Even a moderately healthy Serge would be fine.

Part of that is because of Zu. Is Zu playing a lot better than in the past? No--except for one very important statistic. He's fouling 30% less than last year. That's a massive difference. Zu has been over a foul every 9 minutes for almost all of his career--and you can't keep a guy like that on the court very long, even if you want to. We talk about Zu's matchup issues and how he's a situational player--the fouls showed that. When he plays against smaller, more mobile Cs, he reaches and grabs ... and fouls. But he's cut down on that to some degree. He's a little better in positioning; he doesn't make as many dumb attempts to recover as he used to. This year he's under a foul every 12 minutes. He's at a career MPG high, almost 15% higher than last year. He'll never be a 35 mpg guy in the modern NBA--but the difference between getting 18-20 effective minutes every game and 24-28 minutes is substantial. Good for Zu. Lucky for us.


24 minutes was my target for Zu last year and even the year before while he was splitting time with Trezz. FTR--his points, rebs, assists, blocks and turnovers per 36 minutes are EXACTLY the same as last year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/z/zubaciv01.html#per_minute

But well-observed, TrueLA--his fouls have PLUMMETED from 4.2 to 2.9. This lets him stay on the court longer and produce more. Averages and per-36 are great but if you can't stay on the court so what?

BTW it's not showing in his per-36 yet but Zu IS hitting some of those baby hooks he's been working on for years. What if he actually had a post-up game? Unfortunately, when they pound him the ball underneath in traffic I still don't smell points. In fact, I don't even smell he'll get the shot off.

And before we get carried away any further, Zu is a net minus-2.3 on the year. Only Bledsoe is worse [minus-3.2].

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746


[Except Marcus (minus-12.7).
Don't get me started.] :lol:
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Re: Revenge, Revenge, Revenge 

Post#74 » by Clemenza » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:43 am

Wammy Giveaway wrote:This was clearly a game the Mavericks HAD TO win. They knew clearly that Clippers were on a back-to-back skid, and if they were to get them while on their stay at the Staples Crypt, it would have been the Clipper's first 3-game losing streak of the season. Instead, thanks to their playoffs experience, Clippers prevented the 3-game losing streak, forcing Mavs to relive the playoff series that got away - one game away from a 3-0 series lead, which would have given Dallas the automatic win as no team in NBA history has ever come back from down 3-0. So they got this instead.

As it stands, the Clippers are just too small. Zubac has a peak, Ibaka is on a minutes restriction, Hartenstein is somewhat foul prone. Even though the center position has been dying out in favor of postionless basketball where jump shooting is king, they still need a traditional big to psyche opponents out. One who feasts at the rim one hundred percent, is content with his limitations, can go toe to toe against the opponent's own big foe, and more importantly, can spare the guards and shooters from having to do their own shots at the rim. The seven foot center may be dead, but Clippers need an equalizer.

Which is why I have a feeling that DeAndre Jordan may become available. There is a rumor within NBA circles that Lakers may look to trade him as they've not been pleased with his play, partly due to age but also because they signed him mainly as a secret weapon against the Clippers (originally they wanted Chris Paul). If Jordan gets released, what better team to reinvigorate his love of the game and defense than to go back to the team who drafted him and became the longest tenured Clipper of all time. They already have former Clipper Eric Bledsoe, and they've proven to be very good at resurrecting careers at the end of their ropes. Clippers were once the place where careers ended - not this era.

DJ is washed bro.. Been washed since he was in Brooklyn. I get the sentimental angle but all three of our bigs are currently better than DJ right now
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#75 » by Clemenza » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:57 am

Well despite all the bad losses, injuries, bad shooting nights, juggling lineups, etc. we're still currently 5th in the West and only two and a half games out of the third seed. Hopefully we can right ship, Morris and Serge get going, and get a few more of these home wins before hopping back on the road.
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#76 » by TheNewEra » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:15 am

And the crap continues still. No wonder everyone bailed out
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#77 » by KL2 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:39 pm

nickhx2 wrote:- team's wracked by injuries
- lue has to play reserve greater minutes than before because the other options just aren't very good

but you are projecting lue as thinking coffey is the answer?

???


I know he’s a fan favorite here. I don’t get it and think he wouldn’t be in the nba if the Clippers didn’t sign him again. He’s g-league or buried at the end of the bench collecting dnp at best. It’s such a wasted roster spot. But we gotta have those one liners from Brian Sieman I guess.

You think he’s a better option and that’s fine. I think it would be better spent on the young guys who have a boat load more upside and an actual future with the team.
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#78 » by nickhx2 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:58 pm

KL2 wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:- team's wracked by injuries
- lue has to play reserve greater minutes than before because the other options just aren't very good

but you are projecting lue as thinking coffey is the answer?

???


I know he’s a fan favorite here. I don’t get it and think he wouldn’t be in the nba if the Clippers didn’t sign him again. He’s g-league or buried at the end of the bench collecting dnp at best. It’s such a wasted roster spot. But we gotta have those one liners from Brian Sieman I guess.

You think he’s a better option and that’s fine. I think it would be better spent on the young guys who have a boat load more upside and an actual future with the team.


i do think he's a better option, but speaking for myself not because i want to believe it. he's kinda proving it with pretty solid play for a 3rd stringer. i mean if you ask me i'm still surprised coffey's on the team after his SL showing, but he's doing good things on the court for us.

winslow is a non-entity on offense and while i love boston's game and potential, he's still too green. and in a situation where the team merely needs to stay afloat while waiting for kawhi, the best option is to just try to win every game, rather than subverting playoff equity to build up rookies. keeping the team steady is the only thing that matters, in the case kawhi comes back.

fwiw i do like the approach we're taking with boston, and i think johnson's too green to be doing much other than playing in g-league (though his last highlights looked pretty sick to me and i'm really encouraged by them). now, if the season was lost, yeah sure throw them in and let them play every night. but that's not the case and the team really just needs to be putting its best lineups out every night.
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Re: Game 18: Dallas Mavericks @ Los Angeles Clippers: Nov 23 7:30 PM PCT 

Post#79 » by nickhx2 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:12 pm

TheNewEra wrote:
TrueLAfan wrote:I don't think we need/want DJ; he's still an old school center, and his production drop has almost as much to do with the game (continuing) to move away from him as it does his own declining skills. Even a moderately healthy Serge would be fine.

Part of that is because of Zu. Is Zu playing a lot better than in the past? No--except for one very important statistic. He's fouling 30% less than last year. That's a massive difference. Zu has been over a foul every 9 minutes for almost all of his career--and you can't keep a guy like that on the court very long, even if you want to. We talk about Zu's matchup issues and how he's a situational player--the fouls showed that. When he plays against smaller, more mobile Cs, he reaches and grabs ... and fouls. But he's cut down on that to some degree. He's a little better in positioning; he doesn't make as many dumb attempts to recover as he used to. This year he's under a foul every 12 minutes. He's at a career MPG high, almost 15% higher than last year. He'll never be a 35 mpg guy in the modern NBA--but the difference between getting 18-20 effective minutes every game and 24-28 minutes is substantial. Good for Zu. Lucky for us.


So he didn’t get better but got better at a aspect of defense by limiting his fouling ? So getting better at positioning and defending without fouling while having a bump up on points isn’t playing better?


How is this even a topic about him when so many other players are having near career low shooting years? Morris still looks a step slower, Mann and Kennard are both struggling as of late with their roles, George is having problems with efficient shooting and Reggie is trying to get his stats up from Pistons season bad. This is all while Ibaka still hasn’t been up to speed the Hartenstein lineups are getting more difficult on defense in a more restricted role, Bledsoe is having a season worse than and the team is still wrecked by multiple injuries. Yet come in here to see the topic is on Zu and DeAndre Jordan


the key phrase is "a lot better" and i agree, he didn't really kick his game up to MIP levels or anything. he's playing more and impacting the game more simply by being on the court more, he's better in small ways, but he hasn't really added anything new to his game, so i agree with this assessment.

it's the same thing many of us have been saying for years: the more zubac plays, the better off the team is. his presence has always been integral to what the team wants to do and it shows to anyone who understands basketball.
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The Bigger Picture 

Post#80 » by Wammy Giveaway » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:03 pm

Clemenza wrote:DJ is washed bro.. Been washed since he was in Brooklyn. I get the sentimental angle but all three of our bigs are currently better than DJ right now


Sentimentality or not, the Clippers need one more true big. A near seven foot power forward who can play center (or a cent-ward, forward/center hybrid), is an automatic 2-pointer in the rim, and has a midrange game. 6'11" is fine, but as long as the player is intimidating enough, and can spare minutes for Zubac versus skilled bigs, Hartenstein for fouls, and Ibaka for age. If it means giving up versatility by letting go of a guard not named Terance Mann, they'd have to consider it.

I'm thinking somewhere in the lines of Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett all rolled into one player.

I threw DJ's name in there solely because of the Clipper's recently discovered ability to resurrect careers. They did it for Reggie Jackson, Nicolas Batum, Montrezl Harrell, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams and Jamal Crawford. When it comes to players whose careers are going to die, the Clippers have now become the place to go when they want to be saved.

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