Play-in Game 2: vs Pelicans 7:00pm PST on TNT

[MartinToVaught]

Who gives a crap how much Trez scored? He was giving it all back and then some on defense and your favorite coach refused to make the obvious adjustment of benching him. The apologetics for Glenn are REALLY getting tired now.

Mod comment: Guys, it's two years after the fact. Time to let it go--and if you can't or don't want to do that, be ( a lot) more civil.

[ejftw]

You should always look for an upgrade, and Zu, to me, seems like he's going to really take off on a third team....it seems like something is somehow holding him back with the Clips.

The question is, what can you get for him, or how can you realistically upgrade him? We have virtually no assets, even second rounders are bare, and our two rookies have little to no value (even though, I believe that Boston will be a stud).

I'm real interested to see what a duo of Mann and Zu could bring back, despite Terance being one of my favorites on the squad (just bought a pair of his cards and will probably get my hands on a rpa soon).

[esqtvd]

If you can bet on who will win the draft lottery, my money will be on OKC. They will get #1 with the unprotected lottery pick they have from us now. Just watch

Nah, our pick will give OKC #2, Pelicans will get #1 via the neighbors.

It is indeed a shocker we ended up in the lottery--for one thing, the Play-in didn't even exist when we traded the pick. Still, we ended up 12th.

FTR: We traded

--a 93% chance of the 12th or worse pick
--a 1-in-100 [actually 1-in-98.5] chance of the #1 pick
--a 7% chance of a Top 4 pick

BTW: The Neighbors traded away a 26% chance of a Top-4 pick and them being in the lottery with a mostly healthy LeBron is the REAL shocker!! The 8th pick at that!!


https://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds

[Clemenza]

You should always look for an upgrade, and Zu, to me, seems like he's going to really take off on a third team....it seems like something is somehow holding him back with the Clips.

The question is, what can you get for him, or how can you realistically upgrade him? We have virtually no assets, even second rounders are bare, and our two rookies have little to no value (even though, I believe that Boston will be a stud).

I'm real interested to see what a duo of Mann and Zu could bring back, despite Terance being one of my favorites on the squad (just bought a pair of his cards and will probably get my hands on a rpa soon).

I agree. Its certain times he looks like the 2nd coming like the game he had against Jokic and then two games later he's back to square one all over again. It was also kind of weird how Hart supposedly got a green light to shot threes but Zu never got this luxury. And finding an upgrade or better option for center is now the holy grail in the NBA. Its Embiid, Jokic, Ayton, KAT, Gobert at the top and then about 10-12 players lumped in with each other after them.. Zu, Valanciunis, Vucevic, Drummond, Nurkic, Adams, Allen, etc. Maybe we would get another 2nd round pick and get a big bruiser like the Kofi Cockburn kid out of Illinois to back up Zu.

[madmaxmedia]

I think we generally have a good consensus of Zu, his strengths and his weaknesses. He’s no All Star, but he fills the center position pretty well and is a big part of our defense. Him and RoCo are also the only good rebounding bigs. He’s also young which is nice, and while no gazelle is reasonably athletic.

Most positions on our team are upgradable in the right deal, I guess I don’t think about trading Zu because I don’t know what realistic options are possible (and not too expensive either.)

One of the best things about Zu will always be the price we paid to land him, and I just like him personally. I don’t think, however, he’s going to explode on another team, he might incrementally improve but his ceiling and floor seem relatively clear.

[nickhx2]

I think we generally have a good consensus of Zu, his strengths and his weaknesses. He’s no All Star, but he fills the center position pretty well and is a big part of our defense. Him and RoCo are also the only good rebounding bigs. He’s also young which is nice, and while no gazelle is reasonably athletic.

Most positions on our team are upgradable in the right deal, I guess I don’t think about trading Zu because I don’t know what realistic options are possible (and not too expensive either.)

One of the best things about Zu will always be the price we paid to land him, and I just like him personally. I don’t think, however, he’s going to explode on another team, he might incrementally improve but his ceiling and floor seem relatively clear.

agree with all this

talk of trading zubac or dismissing his contributions tends to be myopic, at best. not even sure why zubac is a topic of discussion - he's not the main reason the team flopped in both of its play-in games.

[Roscoe Sheed]

I think we generally have a good consensus of Zu, his strengths and his weaknesses. He’s no All Star, but he fills the center position pretty well and is a big part of our defense. Him and RoCo are also the only good rebounding bigs. He’s also young which is nice, and while no gazelle is reasonably athletic.

Most positions on our team are upgradable in the right deal, I guess I don’t think about trading Zu because I don’t know what realistic options are possible (and not too expensive either.)

One of the best things about Zu will always be the price we paid to land him, and I just like him personally. I don’t think, however, he’s going to explode on another team, he might incrementally improve but his ceiling and floor seem relatively clear.

true, Zubac has some distinct strengths (rim protection, decent rebounder, and decent finisher). However, he has been essentially unplayable in several playoff scenarios over the past several seasons (due to lack of mobility mainly). It would be nice to find a guy who is more versatile, but that's hard to find.

[esqtvd]

I think we generally have a good consensus of Zu, his strengths and his weaknesses. He’s no All Star, but he fills the center position pretty well and is a big part of our defense. Him and RoCo are also the only good rebounding bigs. He’s also young which is nice, and while no gazelle is reasonably athletic.

Most positions on our team are upgradable in the right deal, I guess I don’t think about trading Zu because I don’t know what realistic options are possible (and not too expensive either.)

One of the best things about Zu will always be the price we paid to land him, and I just like him personally. I don’t think, however, he’s going to explode on another team, he might incrementally improve but his ceiling and floor seem relatively clear.

true, Zubac has some distinct strengths (rim protection, decent rebounder, and decent finisher). However, he has been essentially unplayable in several playoff scenarios over the past several seasons (due to lack of mobility mainly). It would be nice to find a guy who is more versatile, but that's hard to find.

Zu doesn't really hurt us during the regular season because when he's ineffective he gets YANKED [which also helps polish his stats]. Doc "curated" his minutes and so does Ty. But in the playoffs, against the good teams and the quality rosters, you can't hide people.

And if you've been watching this weekend, playoff games are not lost--they're WON. That's the point here. Nobody choked; nobody is at fault: There was no magic formula Ty should have come up with.

We got knocked out of the Play-in because we ran out of difference-makers.

[nickhx2]

I think we generally have a good consensus of Zu, his strengths and his weaknesses. He’s no All Star, but he fills the center position pretty well and is a big part of our defense. Him and RoCo are also the only good rebounding bigs. He’s also young which is nice, and while no gazelle is reasonably athletic.

Most positions on our team are upgradable in the right deal, I guess I don’t think about trading Zu because I don’t know what realistic options are possible (and not too expensive either.)

One of the best things about Zu will always be the price we paid to land him, and I just like him personally. I don’t think, however, he’s going to explode on another team, he might incrementally improve but his ceiling and floor seem relatively clear.

true, Zubac has some distinct strengths (rim protection, decent rebounder, and decent finisher). However, he has been essentially unplayable in several playoff scenarios over the past several seasons (due to lack of mobility mainly). It would be nice to find a guy who is more versatile, but that's hard to find.

idk if i'd call him unplayable, per se, rather than we'll be put at a disadvantage against certain guys AND that we have the personnel to alleviate his worst matchups. and even then, in a good lineup he's still gonna add some value and not hurt you too much with his weaknesses.

like, if we had to run with a 5 man lineup ONLY consisting of zubac/covington/kawhi/pg/powell next year (and i'm gonna go out on a not so far-fetched limb and say this will be one of our best lineups next year), we'd be totally fine in almost any matchup. because even if zubac wasn't an elite-agility big, he'd still be a good enough anchor who could move just enough to let the other guys do work. whereas if it were montrezl harrell instead of him in that same lineup, they'd just get relentlessly destroyed on defense and they'd have a guy who'd just take shots away from literally 4 guys better than him.

[esqtvd]

e hae a hole in the iddle

I think we generally have a good consensus of Zu, his strengths and his weaknesses. He’s no All Star, but he fills the center position pretty well and is a big part of our defense. Him and RoCo are also the only good rebounding bigs. He’s also young which is nice, and while no gazelle is reasonably athletic.

Most positions on our team are upgradable in the right deal, I guess I don’t think about trading Zu because I don’t know what realistic options are possible (and not too expensive either.)

One of the best things about Zu will always be the price we paid to land him, and I just like him personally. I don’t think, however, he’s going to explode on another team, he might incrementally improve but his ceiling and floor seem relatively clear.

true, Zubac has some distinct strengths (rim protection, decent rebounder, and decent finisher). However, he has been essentially unplayable in several playoff scenarios over e're not looking for a bakup..the past several seasons (due to lack of mobility mainlye hae a need). It would be nice to find a guy who is more versatile, but that's hard to find.

idk if i'd call him unplayable, per se, rather than we'll be put at a disadvantage against certain guys AND that we have the personnel to alleviate his worst matchups. and even then, in a good lineup he's still gonna add some value and not hurt you too much with his weaknesses.

like, if we had to run with a 5 man lineup ONLY consisting of zubac/covington/kawhi/pg/powell next year (and i'm gonna go out on a not so far-fetched limb and say this will be one of our best lineups next year), we'd be totally fine in almost any matchup. because even if zubac wasn't an elite-agility big, he'd still be a good enough anchor who could move just enough to let the other guys do work. whereas if it were montrezl harrell instead of him in that same lineup, they'd just get relentlessly destroyed on defense and they'd have a guy who'd just take shots away from literally 4 guys better than him.

At 62% FG, Trezz isn't taking shots away from anyone more efficient. People forget that in the 2019 playoffs he averaged 18 ppg and led the league with an amazing 72% FGM. [Zubac was horrible and got BENCHED.]

But nobody wants Trezz back. He was our 7th-highest salary, had a miracle year and came to play every night--the DEFINITION of overachiever. And he never did nearly as well under any other coach before or since. And he's still not right in the head.

This is about upgrading from Zubac. It should be on the table. He won't kill you but he won't win you games either--especially in the playoffs. And he's maxxing out at 24 mpg. That's a lot of minutes left to fill, more than you should ask from just a "backup." We have a NEED.

[madmaxmedia]

e hae a hole in the iddle

true, Zubac has some distinct strengths (rim protection, decent rebounder, and decent finisher). However, he has been essentially unplayable in several playoff scenarios over e're not looking for a bakup..the past several seasons (due to lack of mobility mainlye hae a need). It would be nice to find a guy who is more versatile, but that's hard to find.

idk if i'd call him unplayable, per se, rather than we'll be put at a disadvantage against certain guys AND that we have the personnel to alleviate his worst matchups. and even then, in a good lineup he's still gonna add some value and not hurt you too much with his weaknesses.

like, if we had to run with a 5 man lineup ONLY consisting of zubac/covington/kawhi/pg/powell next year (and i'm gonna go out on a not so far-fetched limb and say this will be one of our best lineups next year), we'd be totally fine in almost any matchup. because even if zubac wasn't an elite-agility big, he'd still be a good enough anchor who could move just enough to let the other guys do work. whereas if it were montrezl harrell instead of him in that same lineup, they'd just get relentlessly destroyed on defense and they'd have a guy who'd just take shots away from literally 4 guys better than him.

At 62% FG, Trezz isn't taking shots away from anyone more efficient. People forget that in the 2019 playoffs he averaged 18 ppg and led the league with an amazing 72% FGM. [Zubac was horrible and got BENCHED.]

But nobody wants Trezz back. He was our 7th-highest salary, had a miracle year and came to play every night--the DEFINITION of overachiever. And he never did nearly as well under any other coach before or since. And he's still not right in the head.

This is about upgrading from Zubac. It should be on the table. He won't kill you but he won't win you games either--especially in the playoffs. And he's maxxing out at 24 mpg. That's a lot of minutes left to fill, more than you should ask from just a "backup." We have a NEED.

Zu is very much in the traditional center mold, and traditional center types run into issues with more modern line ups. So his MPG definitely has a ceiling, even more so in the playoffs. I think defense is the biggest problem with traditional bigs, so even if Zu was a credible 3PT shooter it wouldn't solve the problem. I mean even Rudy Gobert got targeted (by us) last season, and if he can't hang against certain line ups then Zu has it even harder.

I guess the main problem though is everyone in the NBA knows this, so Zu's trade value is limited. I do agree with the idea of packaging him in a trade for a more legitimate full-time center- if the right trade is out there. We have no reason to specifically want to cut ties with Zu, his salary is IMO good for the positive impact he does make. But yeah there is room for improvement for us at the center position.

Actually I wonder how Harry Giles would have played out for us. IIRC he lacked a lot of Hart's ball skills but was definitely the more athletic, quicker of the two.

[KL2]

More salt in the wound. Pelicans steal one in Phoenix with Bookers injury. He’s been ruled out of games 3 and 4 but not the series yet.

[Roscoe Sheed]

More salt in the wound. Pelicans steal one in Phoenix with Bookers injury. He’s been ruled out of games 3 and 4 but not the series yet.

Nobody knows what would have happened vs the Clippers- injuries are mostly unpredictable

[donemilio21]

More salt in the wound. Pelicans steal one in Phoenix with Bookers injury. He’s been ruled out of games 3 and 4 but not the series yet.

Nobody knows what would have happened vs the Clippers- injuries are mostly unpredictable

he is now ruled out for the series, and probably next round too.

Here is the ultimate gut punch scnario that is extremely likely to happen, because you know we are the Clippers.
-Pelicans will beat Suns and advance.
-they will get a top 4 lottery pick from Lakers
-OKC will get a top 4 lottery pick from us.

[MartinToVaught]

Our pick going top 4 would royally suck, but the obnoxious Suns losing in the first round would make it less of a gut punch than the alternate universe where they win it all, we're the only ringless team left in our division, AND our pick goes top 4.

[esqtvd]

e hae a hole in the iddle

idk if i'd call him unplayable, per se, rather than we'll be put at a disadvantage against certain guys AND that we have the personnel to alleviate his worst matchups. and even then, in a good lineup he's still gonna add some value and not hurt you too much with his weaknesses.

like, if we had to run with a 5 man lineup ONLY consisting of zubac/covington/kawhi/pg/powell next year (and i'm gonna go out on a not so far-fetched limb and say this will be one of our best lineups next year), we'd be totally fine in almost any matchup. because even if zubac wasn't an elite-agility big, he'd still be a good enough anchor who could move just enough to let the other guys do work. whereas if it were montrezl harrell instead of him in that same lineup, they'd just get relentlessly destroyed on defense and they'd have a guy who'd just take shots away from literally 4 guys better than him.

At 62% FG, Trezz isn't taking shots away from anyone more efficient. People forget that in the 2019 playoffs he averaged 18 ppg and led the league with an amazing 72% FGM. [Zubac was horrible and got BENCHED.]

But nobody wants Trezz back. He was our 7th-highest salary, had a miracle year and came to play every night--the DEFINITION of overachiever. And he never did nearly as well under any other coach before or since. And he's still not right in the head.

This is about upgrading from Zubac. It should be on the table. He won't kill you but he won't win you games either--especially in the playoffs. And he's maxxing out at 24 mpg. That's a lot of minutes left to fill, more than you should ask from just a "backup." We have a NEED.

Zu is very much in the traditional center mold, and traditional center types run into issues with more modern line ups. So his MPG definitely has a ceiling, even more so in the playoffs. I think defense is the biggest problem with traditional bigs, so even if Zu was a credible 3PT shooter it wouldn't solve the problem. I mean even Rudy Gobert got targeted (by us) last season, and if he can't hang against certain line ups then Zu has it even harder.

I guess the main problem though is everyone in the NBA knows this, so Zu's trade value is limited. I do agree with the idea of packaging him in a trade for a more legitimate full-time center- if the right trade is out there. We have no reason to specifically want to cut ties with Zu, his salary is IMO good for the positive impact he does make. But yeah there is room for improvement for us at the center position.

Actually I wonder how Harry Giles would have played out for us. IIRC he lacked a lot of Hart's ball skills but was definitely the more athletic, quicker of the two.

It's called the Completion Backwards Principle. Who will be our closing 5? Deandre Jordan was useless and so is Zu. But you can leave a lot of 2nd-tier guys like Valanciunas out there, and Vucevic and Nurkic and Adams and a couple of others too. Even Brook Lopez.

Zu? No. UPGRADE

[esqtvd]

More salt in the wound. Pelicans steal one in Phoenix with Bookers injury. He’s been ruled out of games 3 and 4 but not the series yet.

Nobody knows what would have happened vs the Clippers- injuries are mostly unpredictable

The Larry is WIDE OPEN this year. Injuries everywhere. RoCo and Batum came to play. Norman made it back and played hurt, PG would have come back. And if we made to the Conference Finals I think Kawhi would have made an appearance.

After a great effort to finish 42-40, nobody but Reggie--and surprisingly my whipping boy Mook--showed up for the two play-ins. Against NON-CONTENDERS.

Dump the rest. Especially our board pets, Zu and T-Mann. F***ing useless. All they had to do was finish the job and get us into the 7th or 8th seed and we had a SHOT.

I'm PISSED.

[Roscoe Sheed]

More salt in the wound. Pelicans steal one in Phoenix with Bookers injury. He’s been ruled out of games 3 and 4 but not the series yet.

Nobody knows what would have happened vs the Clippers- injuries are mostly unpredictable

The Larry is WIDE OPEN this year. Injuries everywhere. RoCo and Batum came to play. Norman made it back and played hurt, PG would have come back. And if we made to the Conference Finals I think Kawhi would have made an appearance.

After a great effort to finish 42-40, nobody but Reggie--and surprisingly my whipping boy Mook--showed up for the two play-ins. Against NON-CONTENDERS.

Dump the rest. Especially our board pets, Zu and T-Mann. F***ing useless. All they had to do was finish the job and get us into the 7th or 8th seed and we had a SHOT.

I'm PISSED.

I am too.

What I meant by the comment is that in an alternate world in which the Clippers beat the Pelicans, you never know what would have happened vs the Suns- perhaps Booker wouldn't have strained his hamstring vs the Clippers or perhaps PG would have re-injured himself if he got out of shape due to covid. There are too many "what ifs"

[Captain Ballmer]

e hae a hole in the iddle

At 62% FG, Trezz isn't taking shots away from anyone more efficient. People forget that in the 2019 playoffs he averaged 18 ppg and led the league with an amazing 72% FGM. [Zubac was horrible and got BENCHED.]

But nobody wants Trezz back. He was our 7th-highest salary, had a miracle year and came to play every night--the DEFINITION of overachiever. And he never did nearly as well under any other coach before or since. And he's still not right in the head.

This is about upgrading from Zubac. It should be on the table. He won't kill you but he won't win you games either--especially in the playoffs. And he's maxxing out at 24 mpg. That's a lot of minutes left to fill, more than you should ask from just a "backup." We have a NEED.

Zu is very much in the traditional center mold, and traditional center types run into issues with more modern line ups. So his MPG definitely has a ceiling, even more so in the playoffs. I think defense is the biggest problem with traditional bigs, so even if Zu was a credible 3PT shooter it wouldn't solve the problem. I mean even Rudy Gobert got targeted (by us) last season, and if he can't hang against certain line ups then Zu has it even harder.

I guess the main problem though is everyone in the NBA knows this, so Zu's trade value is limited. I do agree with the idea of packaging him in a trade for a more legitimate full-time center- if the right trade is out there. We have no reason to specifically want to cut ties with Zu, his salary is IMO good for the positive impact he does make. But yeah there is room for improvement for us at the center position.

Actually I wonder how Harry Giles would have played out for us. IIRC he lacked a lot of Hart's ball skills but was definitely the more athletic, quicker of the two.

It's called the Completion Backwards Principle. Who will be our closing 5? Deandre Jordan was useless and so is Zu. But you can leave a lot of 2nd-tier guys like Valanciunas out there, and Vucevic and Nurkic and Adams and a couple of others too. Even Brook Lopez.

Zu? No. UPGRADE

I'm willing to send Zubac, but only if we get the RIGHT player to replace him. Bigs like Bam Adebayo doesn't grow on trees. Myles Turner and Christian Wood(if Ty Lue can get his head) looks like possible candidates for both offensive&defensive upgrades.

[esqtvd]

Zu is very much in the traditional center mold, and traditional center types run into issues with more modern line ups. So his MPG definitely has a ceiling, even more so in the playoffs. I think defense is the biggest problem with traditional bigs, so even if Zu was a credible 3PT shooter it wouldn't solve the problem. I mean even Rudy Gobert got targeted (by us) last season, and if he can't hang against certain line ups then Zu has it even harder.

I guess the main problem though is everyone in the NBA knows this, so Zu's trade value is limited. I do agree with the idea of packaging him in a trade for a more legitimate full-time center- if the right trade is out there. We have no reason to specifically want to cut ties with Zu, his salary is IMO good for the positive impact he does make. But yeah there is room for improvement for us at the center position.

Actually I wonder how Harry Giles would have played out for us. IIRC he lacked a lot of Hart's ball skills but was definitely the more athletic, quicker of the two.

It's called the Completion Backwards Principle. Who will be our closing 5? Deandre Jordan was useless and so is Zu. But you can leave a lot of 2nd-tier guys like Valanciunas out there, and Vucevic and Nurkic and Adams and a couple of others too. Even Brook Lopez.

Zu? No. UPGRADE

I'm willing to send Zubac, but only if we get the RIGHT player to replace him. Bigs like Bam Adebayo doesn't grow on trees. Myles Turner and Christian Wood(if Ty Lue can get his head) looks like possible candidates for both offensive&defensive upgrades.

Yah, I'm not saying dump him for the sake of dumping him. He's still in the middle of the pack--some teams don't really have a center at all. But somebody with some skills or explosiveness might be more useful in the playoffs and in crunch time.