"I'm pleasantly surprised about (I was flat out wrong)" thread

[nickhx2]

I was just thinking since we're finally showing some signs of life, especially kawhi's performance, that the team certainly feels like it has some legs underneath it - which I don't think we could safely say up until this point. Sure, we had some really important wins but for the most part everything has felt rather tenuous.

But, you know, we're fans, we don't know everything the team is planning for, and the best we can mostly do is speculate and discuss. And in lieu of things looking pretty good (for the time being), I think it'd be good discussion to talk about things we had expectations for, that were completely surpassed or turned upside its head.

My own:

- I did not think MD would be anything until at least next year, and if he were to be brought on at any point this year he'd just be floundering in his minutes. Instead, he gives us some of that manic mann energy that can help to turn some games around. I hope he completely overtakes brown and gives us that energetic, big man presence we could really use.

- I thought batum wasn't totally washed, but I just thought he was mostly gonna be a 10-15 mpg kinda guy while covington overtook him in his role. Instead, he looks just as good as he's ever been for us, and you can see how high impact this dude is over the past few games. I thought a little last night about which role players are indispensable on this team and my short list is zubac/luke/batum.

- On that note, I really expected covington to become our top reserve/defensive guy and that hasn't really happened. I almost expect him to be traded at this point, which sucks because I do think if he has the minutes he can elevate the defense in a big way.

- I think there's a lot to read between the lines with kawhi/pg and who's handling the ball. There was a snippet about kawhi being the pseudo-point guard on the team because he's just really smart and solid, and that makes sense to me. Last night I 1000% thought they were utilizing him in a point-forward role, and it was only after he started making a couple shots that he decided "hey, I might be back, maybe I'll just keep shooting" and we saw the results. But before he started hitting, well, everything, you could see how steady the team was on offense with him being the hub of the offense (I'd also add that I've always found it all kinds of backwards that lue went to PG in his first year and tried to designate him as the handler/passer, when it felt like kawhi was much better suited to do that from the post as a triangle-y type of initiator). Anyway, my hope is they continue with whatever they were doing last night because it looked like a night and day difference compared to the usual PG ISO into reggie ISO into morris ISO into bad shot with 2 left on the shot clock.

- In that same vein, I thought PG had really improved a lot last year after returning from his UCL injury in terms of ball handling, passing, and decision making, and I thought he would carry that over into this year to be that guy lue wanted him to be. I woulda put him on the short list of MVP candidates to begin the year, partly because of that. This year? He's just back to his usual mediocre decision making. There was a moment last night where I was like um, yeah, kawhi pretty much puts to rest who the best player on the team is, and by good margin. There's a steadiness that kawhi brings that affects almost every facet of the game that PG cannot bring. If PG is playing lights out defense and hitting all his crazy iso shots then sure, he can probably bring near equal impact, but not so much that it fixes all the kinks of bad shots, bad passing, etc etc. Kawhi's still that guy and he's our only guy for that, IMO. No surprise, I guess. I'll add something that I hadn't really thought of up until last night: I'm a little over PG right now, and last night's the first time I thought that since we first acquired him, and I sure hope that feeling goes away.

- Related to that, I had long been of the idea that this team doesn't need extra playmaking per se and that they could not just get by, but do quite well without a traditional point guard. And it's really weird saying this, but I think john wall is the one who's changing my mind. Because when he's on the court with the key guys, he's not acting as a multiplier for them - instead, he's taking bad shots, making bad TO's, and doing a buncha things that, hey at least when reggie does it, he's SUPPOSED to do that, and he shoots better anyway. Wall's not doing the job we ideally need him to be doing and it just takes the touches away from the guys who need it. I mean I don't think you trade wall or whatever as of just yet but I would hope that lue's figuring something out where wall can shift his priorities. Wall taking a buncha shots right now is hurting the team, a lot. And all that kinda tells me that a traditional, pure passing point guard would do big things for our offense.

- Morris I think i've mentioned several times already. He's showing me he's not close to washed up, and that he's actually still providing decent value on the court as a scorer/shooter, despite our plethora of them. Do I think he needs to be moved still? Yeah, but I keep seeing him make shots and I'm always like "yeah we actually needed that." Powell's supposed to be the guy who bridges that scoring gap from the big two into the rest of the team, but morris is doing now what I thought he was not capable of, not all that long ago.

- I'll end with luke. I'm certainly pleasantly surprised with his development as a player. I think he's taken a bit of a step back in his aggressiveness as he had a couple gun-shy moments last night that had my eyes rolling into the ceiling. But I would consider that to be a blip, and something he knows he needs to be working on, and not a big deal at all considering the elephant in the room: his greatly improved defense. He moves around in sync with the team, his hands are active, I mean who in the hell expected this? If I'm lue I tell him I want him to work on his ball handling every day like steph curry because that gives him way more options as a shooter (can you imagine him with that 1v1 off the bounce 3 point ability?) and it gives US the ability to work him in as a superior version of reggie in our starting lineup.

Anyway, just some thoughts. What's pleasantly surprised you guys this season, so far?

[Roscoe Sheed]

I think PG can still help this team be elite- especially if he plays like he did against the Celtics- under more control, minimizing silly turnovers, and playing solid defense. I like him playing off the ball more for the reasons you mentioned- he tends to be erratic in terms of ball handling and passing, but is a good spot up shooter.

[PeteyPablo]

I have the roster in order of value to the team.

Kawhi - This team will go far as Kawhi can take them. He puts them over the top. This is why the Clippers went after him.

PG13 - As mentioned by others, he works better off the ball so he can be a scorer and secondary playmaker / ball handler.

Batum- He is like a French AK47 ( Utah Jazz reference ). His hustle, defense, 3pt shooting, and IQ are a luxury. Perfect 3&D

Morris - with the MAX players playing , now Morris can be a role player and not have to create - he just plays within the flow of the offense( Post, mid range, 3pt ). At 6'8'' he can at the very least be a big body on defense and when he tries , he can grab a few rebounds.

Jackson - He is great in a non playmaking role and as a role player. Spot up shooter ( 3rd or 4th option ). He can get to the rim and on occasion grab a few rebounds and a steal or two with his length.

Wall - Ball handler , mid range shot is almost automatic (15-18 ft ) and attack the rim.

Zubac - Rebounding , Rim protection, Post play ( young with a little more upside potential )

Powell - Spark Plug off the bench , can score in variety of ways. Reminds me a little bit of Lue Williams in a bigger body.

Mann - Young with upside potential. Attacks the rim and is improving his shooting from mid-range and three. Athletic.

Kennard - Spacing and three-point threat.

Covington - Great 3&D, provides length and scoring. Too many wings and thus less playing time but over the course of a season he will get minutes.

Diabate - Young with upside potential. Athletic and already showing ability on both ends. Strong motor.

[madmaxmedia]

Zubac continuing to increase his minutes has been nice to see, and Diabate flashing a bit early is also great. I think there have been more mild disappointments than anything else (not surprising given we are 16-13.)

But, a great game from Kawhi in a great win over the Celtics will hopefully jump start us as we have 3 very winnable games up next. If we are healthy we can win all 3, and 19-13 would be a very nice start given Kawhi has barely gotten started so far.

[wakelaunch1]

If the Clippers had not traded SGA we would be title contenders. SGA would be the perfect compliment to Kawhi

[Wammy Giveaway]

Kawhi - This team will go far as Kawhi can take them. He puts them over the top. This is why the Clippers went after him.

They also got him for the Good Samaritan Spurs bump. Clippers were a bad team under Sterling, during the Lob City era, and when Doc Rivers was coach. There was always bad press or some controversy surrounding the team. With him, and especially under Tyronn Lue, the Clippers have been ninja, an "under the radar" team. For all the times Clippers desired to be loved, respected and worshiped like their Big Brother Lakers, Leonard learned from the greats Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich, "no news is better than bad news."

Mann - Young with upside potential. Attacks the rim and is improving his shooting from mid-range and three. Athletic.

A lucky charm energizer bunny. His heart, hustle, and determination to win is infectious that it inspires his teammates to play harder, helping Clippers get out of terrible lulls that are usually common to them (I'm starting to think this is another franchise trait attributed to not taking lottery teams seriously). When he plays the correct amount of minutes, Clippers usually win.

Covington - Great 3&D, provides length and scoring. Too many wings and thus less playing time but over the course of a season he will get minutes.

I'm starting to think Covington was brought specifically to be used against a particular playoff opponent. You know how certain players just have crazy stats against a certain team, like how Matisse Thybulle has career shooting bests only against the Sacramento Kings, or when Michael Beasley has career best against the Clippers? That's Covington right now, but I don't know who he is good against in the western conference.

Outside of that, he's a sign-and-stash: keep him to prevent opposing teams from using him in their playoff run, or to make sure he isn't used against the Clippers. Now it feels like a Doc Rivers-Josh Smith signing again: "I signed you because you defeated me. Show me how so that we can use what you did against my team to my advantage."

[clipsfever]

Have to admit that the more we approach elite level play in both ability and availability, the more Mook fits and adds

[Twisted]

I'm a little over PG right now, and last night's the first time I thought that since we first acquired him, and I sure hope that feeling goes away.

Kawhi had such a perfect game against the Celtics, that he made everyone else look sub-par in comparison. But keep in mind that George is currently top ten in the NBA according to RAPTOR (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/). No advanced stat is perfect, but that's one of the better ones and it definitely points you in the right direction:



I know it's disappointing that he'll likely never win an MVP, but the dude is still an elite two-way player.

[esqtvd]

I think Wall and RoCo will be high in the playoff rotation. RoCo started the season sick and hurt and Ty is already giving 9 guys significant burn. By injury or trade, his time will come--if he's not traded himself.

Wall has a lot of catching up to do after only 50 games in 3 years. He also needs to change his game from #1 option to role player--a change Westbrook has failed to negotiate.

But I have faith in J-Wall though handing him the starting job and shttcanning Reggie was never on the agenda. Ty let things shake out on their own, no ceremony or drama.

[nickhx2]

I'm a little over PG right now, and last night's the first time I thought that since we first acquired him, and I sure hope that feeling goes away.

Kawhi had such a perfect game against the Celtics, that he made everyone else look sub-par in comparison. But keep in mind that George is currently top ten in the NBA according to RAPTOR (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/). No advanced stat is perfect, but that's one of the better ones and it definitely points you in the right direction:



I know it's disappointing that he'll likely never win an MVP, but the dude is still an elite two-way player.

yeah, i mean, listen: i'll argue with anyone how good this guy is straight up because of his two-way impact. and i agree with you that kawhi just makes everyone else look worse in comparison, also. my comment is basically just me thinking PG's flaws are the featured flaws of this team and that doesn't look likely to change. bad shots and bad passing are going to be the death of this team in close games on any given night, and since the reggie/wall combo isn't ameliorating that, the team's gonna have a bunch of nights where they'll run up leads, lose them because of said bad passing/shot selection, then have to hope the leads are strong enough to withstand whatever happens at the end of games.

fortunately, this team is certainly built to become an offense and defensive juggernaut such that those issues become marginalized by the team running up the score, at least imo

[madmaxmedia]

I think most of our guys have an optimal usage rate over the course of a season, and PG gets more inconsistent when he is forced to carry too much of the load. The really obnoxious bad decisions of course are unforgivable no matter what, but there is a risk:reward involved in many of his plays. And when Kawhi is out, he has to force the issue more simply because he's by far the best creator on the floor.

I think 32-year old Paul George's brain in 24-year old Paul George's body would be absolutely elite, but this version is okay too. We just need both Kawhi and PG on the floor to really hit our stride.

[nickhx2]

I think most of our guys have an optimal usage rate over the course of a season, and PG gets more inconsistent when he is forced to carry too much of the load. The really obnoxious bad decisions of course are unforgivable no matter what, but there is a risk:reward involved in many of his plays. And when Kawhi is out, he has to force the issue more simply because he's by far the best creator on the floor.

I think 32-year old Paul George's brain in 24-year old Paul George's body would be absolutely elite, but this version is okay too. We just need both Kawhi and PG on the floor to really hit our stride.

i think this is a good way to put it and i agree. i'll say that the guys who become overused are pretty clearly reggie/morris, and maybe PG to some extent. but you can forgive PG being overused because he's just that good.

i agree about PG's risk/reward, because i mean while those TO's/bad shots can be real killers, if he doesn't have that overall aggression he might just not be the same guy on offense. so maybe you just accept it and you take the bad with the good. it's just crappy cause we KNOW that it doesn't have to be that way given his play after his return from the UCL.