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2023 Trade Deadline Thread: Conley/VanVleet/Lowry/etc. (Updated thread)

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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#41 » by madmaxmedia » Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:51 pm

esqtvd wrote:Anyway, basketball IQ and leadership are what we're lacking and that's what Conley still has some of--that Right Stuff. It's all on Ballmer now, if he wants to roll the dice on what's left of Kawhi's and PG's prime. In the end it's HIS team and HIS future.

Frankly, Reggie did a better job quarterbacking the makeshift second unit tonight than faux-point guard Mann ever could, so for that reason alone, Mann should remain the starter. It's not that we need a point guard, it's that we need a leader--Kawhi and PG need a leader!--and that's where Conley would fit in.


I don't think that Terance is a great point guard, but it seems clear to me due to our team deficiencies we need him to play 30+ MPG. We need his youth, athleticism, and his team-oriented play (which does make him a credible point guard.) Indeed not many players on our team are actually capable of playing 30+ MPG for a full season without getting gassed or hurt.

He's not a consistent scorer though so isn't going to find those minutes at the 2 or 3, and the 4 (much less 5) is more of a gimmick position for him. I think it would be a mistake to try to force him to take more shots, the form on his jumper is a bit slow and he's not quick enough to consistently break down his man 1-on-1. He is a very good opportunistic scorer though (50% FG for his career even.)

I feel like Mann is almost like a band-aid this season as Reggie was last season, our roster is still broken but in different ways.

Conley is a better point guard and brings certain qualities, but then Terance goes back to irregular minutes and most of our line ups get even older. I think others have mentioned the possibility of getting both Conley and Collins at the deadline, that would be a viable combo to bring in IMO because Collins adds a lot of juice. I am really hesitant at bringing in yet another vet bargain (35 years young this time), but you do what you can I guess.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#42 » by esqtvd » Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:56 pm

NOTE TO FO: POINT GUARD IS NOT THE PROBLEM

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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#43 » by wakelaunch1 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:03 am

esqtvd wrote:NOTE TO FO: POINT GUARD IS NOT THE PROBLEM

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We need to upgrade Morris and Zubac. One of the Upgrades has to be above average defensively and play the small ball five.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#44 » by esqtvd » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:35 am

wakelaunch1 wrote:
esqtvd wrote:NOTE TO FO: POINT GUARD IS NOT THE PROBLEM



We need to upgrade Morris and Zubac. One of the Upgrades has to be above average defensively and play the small ball five.



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But is the problem Morris & Zubac or just Morris?


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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#45 » by Roscoe Sheed » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:38 am

It likely isn't Zubac's fault but he often has to play in no man's land leaving bigs wide open for mid-range shots and sometimes dunks. It is clear that Morris needs to be traded. Even having Covington take more of his minutes would help greatly. It is like he plays defense standing upright- either he lacks the energy to defend properly or doesn't care enough.

He used to provide such benefits as post play and knock down 3 point shooting- but not enough in the present to justify him playing major minutes.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#46 » by nickhx2 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:14 am

actually kind of insane that one of the players who is supposed to be able to compensate and switch in for a bad zubac matchup is getting relegated to the bench while someone who is TREMENDOUSLY worse than zubac takes those minutes.

it's kinda why i asked the question in the other thread, i wonder what the FO/lue think the issue with the team is? because it's borderline psychotic not to recognize that brown is not helping the team the way covington can.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#47 » by madmaxmedia » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:57 pm

Zu is a quality center, but very much a traditional low post one. I don’t think we need to upgrade him so much as find a complimentary big, so we can play either depending on matchups. I think Zu’s sweet spot is around 25 MPG anyway.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#48 » by TrueLAfan » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:32 pm

The thing with Zu isn’t that he’s a “traditional” or “slow” C, or whatever you want to call it. The problem is that his backups are all 6’9” guys that are older SFs that have turned into PFs and can’t guard or defends bigs and protect the rim. Since Zu plays 25-28 mpg, that’s almost half a game where we have a big deficiency. Pun intended.

Mook isn’t quite as bad of a player as he looks right now. If he was on, say the Knicks—who have plenty of rebounding across the board, and enough shot blocking to get by—his scoring and ability to spread the court would be valuable. We don’t have that rebounding, or a true big that can create spacing to play alongside him. We’re the worst team for Mook.

Orlando and Sacramento are drowning in big men. Orlando also has three PGs on the team. Assuming they want to keep and build around Banchero, Carter, and Bol, they got Mo Bamba, Mo Wagner, and Jonathan Isaac in the frontcourt—and Jalen Suggs, Markelle Fultz, and Cole Anthony at the 1. If we wanted to make a high-risk/high reward deals, we’d go after Isaac and either Anthony or Suggs.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#49 » by Roscoe Sheed » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:44 pm

TrueLAfan wrote:The thing with Zu isn’t that he’s a “traditional” or “slow” C, or whatever you want to call it. The problem is that his backups are all 6’9” guys that are older SFs that have turned into PFs and can’t guard or defends bigs and protect the rim. Since Zu plays 25-28 mpg, that’s almost half a game where we have a big deficiency. Pun intended.

Mook isn’t quite as bad of a player as he looks right now. If he was on, say the Knicks—who have plenty of rebounding across the board, and enough shot blocking to get by—his scoring and ability to spread the court would be valuable. We don’t have that rebounding, or a true big that can create spacing to play alongside him. We’re the worst team for Mook.

Orlando and Sacramento are drowning in big men. Orlando also has three PGs on the team. Assuming they want to keep and build around Banchero, Carter, and Bol, they got Mo Bamba, Mo Wagner, and Jonathan Isaac in the frontcourt—and Jalen Suggs, Markelle Fultz, and Cole Anthony at the 1. If we wanted to make a high-risk/high reward deals, we’d go after Isaac and either Anthony or Suggs.

I think the bigger problem with Morris is that he can't defend a chair- his defense is abysmal now.

He should be a role player getting only 15-20 minutes of action.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#50 » by Scoundreldays » Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:36 pm

Speaking of bigs, I know he was never the same after his back injury with us and he is getting up in age but I saw Bucks are looking to move Ibaka. Anyone see how he looked when he got a chance to play with the Bucks? I wonder how different our 2021 season would had been if he didn't hurt his back.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#51 » by Ballings7 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:08 pm

TrueLAfan wrote:The thing with Zu isn’t that he’s a “traditional” or “slow” C, or whatever you want to call it. The problem is that his backups are all 6’9” guys that are older SFs that have turned into PFs and can’t guard or defends bigs and protect the rim. Since Zu plays 25-28 mpg, that’s almost half a game where we have a big deficiency. Pun intended.

Mook isn’t quite as bad of a player as he looks right now. If he was on, say the Knicks—who have plenty of rebounding across the board, and enough shot blocking to get by—his scoring and ability to spread the court would be valuable. We don’t have that rebounding, or a true big that can create spacing to play alongside him. We’re the worst team for Mook.

Orlando and Sacramento are drowning in big men. Orlando also has three PGs on the team. Assuming they want to keep and build around Banchero, Carter, and Bol, they got Mo Bamba, Mo Wagner, and Jonathan Isaac in the frontcourt—and Jalen Suggs, Markelle Fultz, and Cole Anthony at the 1. If we wanted to make a high-risk/high reward deals, we’d go after Isaac and either Anthony or Suggs.


Good points on Orl and Sac. Team definitely need some more agility and length up front, but with a bit of experience.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#52 » by Ballings7 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:24 pm

Scoundreldays wrote:Speaking of bigs, I know he was never the same after his back injury with us and he is getting up in age but I saw Bucks are looking to move Ibaka. Anyone see how he looked when he got a chance to play with the Bucks? I wonder how different our 2021 season would had been if he didn't hurt his back.


I wouldn't mind him Ibaka back... but think Dewayne Dedmon would be better if going after veteran bigs. Sounds like Miami may want to trade him; I guess he had an issue with Heat coaches recently, so maybe needs a change of scenery.



Anyway, Dedmon and Kawhi had great chemistry on the 2017 Spurs, and got on well apparently. Dedmon is still spry from what I've seen, and plays with energy on both ends, good size, probably be a nice influence on Diabate too.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270075/Heat-Reportedly-Not-Trying-To-Trade-Kyle-Lowry-Remain-Interested-In-Jae-Crowder
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#53 » by og15 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:12 am

Ballings7 wrote:
Scoundreldays wrote:Speaking of bigs, I know he was never the same after his back injury with us and he is getting up in age but I saw Bucks are looking to move Ibaka. Anyone see how he looked when he got a chance to play with the Bucks? I wonder how different our 2021 season would had been if he didn't hurt his back.


I wouldn't mind him Ibaka back... but think Dewayne Dedmon would be better if going after veteran bigs. Sounds like Miami may want to trade him; I guess he had an issue with Heat coaches recently, so maybe needs a change of scenery.



Anyway, Dedmon and Kawhi had great chemistry on the 2017 Spurs, and got on well apparently. Dedmon is still spry from what I've seen, and plays with energy on both ends, good size, probably be a nice influence on Diabate too.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270075/Heat-Reportedly-Not-Trying-To-Trade-Kyle-Lowry-Remain-Interested-In-Jae-Crowder

The loss of Ibaka was a bigger hit than many realize, but after that injury, Ibaka is no longer a rotation player in the NBA.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#54 » by nickhx2 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:41 am

yeah, that injury really was super unfortunate
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#55 » by TrueLAfan » Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:10 pm

Yeah, Serge was perfect …the 24-31 year old Serge. He had a run of about 5 good games in Milwaukee, hurt the back again, and has barely played since. Pretty sure he’s done.

I like Dedmon, but he has one critical problem that he’s always had which will probably get worse—he fouls. He fouls a lot, and he fouls all the time. Every 6.5-7 minutes, Dedmon gets a foul. He’s a good player—and if he fouled less, he’d play more. As it is, you can’t make him a 25-28 mpg player. Nothing can. He fouls too much. Is he useful as a 15 mpg player? Absolutely. And if you’re aware of that going in, it’s all good. But he can’t be super valuable because he can’t stay on the court long enough. Older bigs tend to slow down and reach--and foul--a little more too, so ...
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#56 » by esqtvd » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:44 pm

guess who ;-)

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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#57 » by ejftw » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:08 pm

Wall/RoCo for Conley just needs to get done.

esqtvd wrote:guess who ;-)

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Man, a five man unit with Reggie, Luke and Mook being top five in any defensive stat is absolutely stunning to me. Wouldn't ever have expected it....or is Zu just that good ;)
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#58 » by playaloc916 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:37 pm

Does Mook currently have any trade value at the moment? I wish the team would just move him and be done with it... he just brings too little to the table besides scoring, and as long as he's on the team, he's going to get minutes.

I'd be disappointed if Zubac was traded. He's young, on a good deal, has good chemistry with the team, and is averaging a double double. Loved the dynamic of having both Zu and Hart last year... I think Richaun Holmes is available? A few years ago he was pretty decent. Not sure if he's hurt or something.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#59 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:52 pm

I don't think Mook has positive trade value generally speaking, though that's not to say there aren't some teams that could use specifically what he can bring. He might fit in a good 3-way trade now, or could be be packaged in the offseason as salary filler in a bigger trade involving other players/picks.

One thing about Conley- I didn't like the idea of trading for him because of his age and because we're now starting Terance there. But I think the picture changes a bit if the FO is considering a bigger reshuffling of the roster rather than just looking for that 1 significant trade.

Besides PG and Kawhi, in such a scenario literally nobody else is off the table IMO. One trade brings in an older starter, but another trade or 2 add athleticism. Or we lose Zu in one trade, but bring in another starting center in another. It might seem stupid to trade Mann, but then what if get a real impact PF somewhere else and a traditional point guard. Etc. Even PG should be considered tradable, although I'm assuming he's got more value for the team playing than as a trade asset.

Between riding this core as long as possible and totally blowing it up, there is an opportunity to re-tool. It might take giving up our 2 future 1sts in the offseason, but IMO would be our best chance at fielding a real contender again.
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Re: Mike Conley 

Post#60 » by KL2 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:49 pm

I guess post this here? Not sure we need a trade deadline type thread or not? Clippers are always rumored to be involved in lots.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/1/24/23568973/clippers-trade-rumors-fred-vanvleet-mike-conley

Says we’re not only interested in Conley but Lowry and VanFleet too.

Mann is off the table.

Looking for backup pg (duh) and big to back up Zu (another duh).

We’ve inquired about Naz Reid.

We’re likely priced out for guys like Turner and Collins. A cheaper option like Bamba is available in trade talks.

Also have interest in bringing back Hartenstein.

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