Game #72: Clippers @ BLAZERS Sunday 3/19 6PM

Scoundreldays · Post #41 » by **Scoundreldays** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:14 am

esqtvd wrote:
NickP wrote:Per the +/- man, when Morris gets a 0 +/-, he's done his job. But today? Morris with +16. This means he literally put the team on his back and carried them to a W. The +/- man's wet dream come true today.

yes he did his job
Mann was 0 +/- today--4 points, 1 reb, 4 assists
he did his job too

still waiting for the eye test brigade to explain to us how you can "pad" your plus/minus

seems like the whole basketball world uses plus minus except the eye testers

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If Russ can clean up his layups and remember how to dunk again I will be much more comfortable with him closing lol still have some time

LamarWho · Post #42 » by **LamarWho** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:24 am

We own the Blazers and Lakers. Dame almost never play well against us. I look forward to the 2 games against Shai this week, we need to get revenge for those 2 losses against them earlier this season.

Roscoe Sheed · Post #43 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:26 am

Scoundreldays wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
NickP wrote:Per the +/- man, when Morris gets a 0 +/-, he's done his job. But today? Morris with +16. This means he literally put the team on his back and carried them to a W. The +/- man's wet dream come true today.

yes he did his job
Mann was 0 +/- today--4 points, 1 reb, 4 assists
he did his job too

still waiting for the eye test brigade to explain to us how you can "pad" your plus/minus

seems like the whole basketball world uses plus minus except the eye testers

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If Russ can clean up his layups and remember how to dunk again I will be much more comfortable with him closing lol still have some time

I think he only has about 75% of the athleticism he had in his prime- he struggles to elevate high enough to get clean shots near the basket- so, I think he will continue to struggle in that area unfortunately

esqtvd · Post #44 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:36 am

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esqtvd · Post #45 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:55 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:
Scoundreldays wrote:If Russ can clean up his layups and remember how to dunk again I will be much more comfortable with him closing lol still have some time

I think he only has about 75% of the athleticism he had in his prime- he struggles to elevate high enough to get clean shots near the basket- so, I think he will continue to struggle in that area unfortunately

Good call. see thread

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Clemenza · Post #46 » by **Clemenza** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:28 am

Good win

esqtvd · Post #47 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:02 am

Clemenza wrote:Good win

wire-to-wire

Spoiler:

Morris didn't suck today and Ty wasn't even in the building

good win for our board yeah

Baiting

NickP · Post #48 » by **NickP** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:10 pm

Wow. Morris gives us this production and he doesn't suck? The bar is indeed below low.

Post #49 » by **og15** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:14 pm

esqtvd wrote:
Roscoe Sheed wrote:
Scoundreldays wrote:If Russ can clean up his layups and remember how to dunk again I will be much more comfortable with him closing lol still have some time

I think he only has about 75% of the athleticism he had in his prime- he struggles to elevate high enough to get clean shots near the basket- so, I think he will continue to struggle in that area unfortunately

Good call. see thread

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Westbrook never had great touch at te rim, I remember a poster being flamed for saying that Westbrook is a not a great finisher at the rim / in the paint around 5-7 years ago when he was still in his prime. I actually agreed with him and would still say he was right.

Westbrook used and uses his athleticism to allow him to finish at the rim, but when it came to soft touch, body control, etc, Westbrook was never particularly good at finishing in the paint or at the rim if he wasn't exploding to the rim for an athletic finish. Dunks, transition, open cuts (usually) he's still going to finish, but in the halfcourt and in traffic, if isn't not an athletic play / dunk, he's not actually that reliable as a rim finisher for his size, body and athletic ability as a guard.

I think it's just that now that he can't make the athletic plays as consistently to compensate for his mediocre touch, people are noticing. The good thing is that even declined athleticism Westbrook is still a top athlete in the league. He's still more athletic than some other similar era PG's to him were in their late 20's to early 30's. So for the most part he can still find athletic ways to finish and not have to rely on superior touch.

PeteyPablo · Post #50 » by **PeteyPablo** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:49 pm

The High Cyde wrote:I feel like this org has failed TMann, just feel like he should be playing a lot more

Eric Gordon, sweet pickup man

Eric Gordon's best year with the Clippers was 22ppg. He is a Lottery pick for a reason. Mr. Indiana .

T Mann should play more minutes - who says NO ?

Great win , but they should have also won on Saturday.

madmaxmedia · Post #51 » by **madmaxmedia** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:21 pm

I think plus minus in a single game is actually useless, way too much noise:signal. Steph Curry single-handedly carried the 3rd quarter for GSW in their last game against us, but I was -11 for the game and I think had a negative plus minus for even the 3rd quarter. Meaningless. It doesn't mean he played bad defense to counter his scoring, or anything like that.

But over a significant stretch of games plus/minus becomes very useful tool in comparing different lineups, combinations of players, etc. There is significant signal in the end that you can't explain away- if you filter out the noise.

madmaxmedia · Post #52 » by **madmaxmedia** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:27 pm

PeteyPablo wrote:
The High Cyde wrote:I feel like this org has failed TMann, just feel like he should be playing a lot more

Eric Gordon, sweet pickup man

Eric Gordon's best year with the Clippers was 22ppg. He is a Lottery pick for a reason. Mr. Indiana .

T Mann should play more minutes - who says NO ?

Great win , but they should have also won on Saturday.

We should have won, but that's what good but not great teams do. They are good enough to win most of those games they should win, but not all. Especially without the best player (Norm too.) I think that's why I enjoy the victories, but don't get too down over the defeats.

esqtvd · Post #53 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:20 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:I think plus minus in a single game is actually useless, way too much noise:signal. Steph Curry single-handedly carried the 3rd quarter for GSW in their last game against us, but I was -11 for the game and I think had a negative plus minus for even the 3rd quarter. Meaningless. It doesn't mean he played bad defense to counter his scoring, or anything like that.

But over a significant stretch of games plus/minus becomes very useful tool in comparing different lineups, combinations of players, etc. There is significant signal in the end that you can't explain away- if you filter out the noise.

Largely useless in a single game, although wild swings can be significant. A plus+16 vs a minus-16. But for the top players playing 30+ minutes, there is a lot of noise playing with different combinations of [by definition] lesser players. But if a role player puts up plus+16, LEAVE HIM IN.

And if you've got a guy who does "all the little things that don't show up in the box score," if it doesn't show up on the scoreboard, what the hell good is it?

NickP · Post #54 » by **NickP** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:24 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:I think plus minus in a single game is actually useless, way too much noise:signal. Steph Curry single-handedly carried the 3rd quarter for GSW in their last game against us, but I was -11 for the game and I think had a negative plus minus for even the 3rd quarter. Meaningless. It doesn't mean he played bad defense to counter his scoring, or anything like that.

But over a significant stretch of games plus/minus becomes very useful tool in comparing different lineups, combinations of players, etc. There is significant signal in the end that you can't explain away- if you filter out the noise.

I hear you but, but, but +/-.

esqtvd · Post #55 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:40 pm

PeteyPablo wrote:
The High Cyde wrote:I feel like this org has failed TMann, just feel like he should be playing a lot more

Eric Gordon, sweet pickup man

Eric Gordon's best year with the Clippers was 22ppg. He is a Lottery pick for a reason. Mr. Indiana .

T Mann should play more minutes - who says NO ?

Great win , but they should have also won on Saturday.

Mann is not playing that well currently and is still getting 21.3 mpg. Very up and down. Gordon is playing great. And Mann is not a point guard or a power forward so that door doesn't open either.

The scoreboard doesn't lie.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?Month=6&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

esqtvd · Post #56 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:46 pm

NickP wrote:
madmaxmedia wrote:I think plus minus in a single game is actually useless, way too much noise:signal. Steph Curry single-handedly carried the 3rd quarter for GSW in their last game against us, but I was -11 for the game and I think had a negative plus minus for even the 3rd quarter. Meaningless. It doesn't mean he played bad defense to counter his scoring, or anything like that.

But over a significant stretch of games plus/minus becomes very useful tool in comparing different lineups, combinations of players, etc. There is significant signal in the end that you can't explain away- if you filter out the noise.

I hear you but, but, but +/-.

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nickhx2 · Post #57 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:07 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:I think plus minus in a single game is actually useless, way too much noise:signal. Steph Curry single-handedly carried the 3rd quarter for GSW in their last game against us, but I was -11 for the game and I think had a negative plus minus for even the 3rd quarter. Meaningless. It doesn't mean he played bad defense to counter his scoring, or anything like that.

But over a significant stretch of games plus/minus becomes very useful tool in comparing different lineups, combinations of players, etc. There is significant signal in the end that you can't explain away- if you filter out the noise.

if this means anything

https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/1/14/16888700/gregg-popovich-analytics-box-score-stats-plus-minus

esqtvd · Post #58 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:15 pm

nickhx2 wrote:
madmaxmedia wrote:I think plus minus in a single game is actually useless, way too much noise:signal. Steph Curry single-handedly carried the 3rd quarter for GSW in their last game against us, but I was -11 for the game and I think had a negative plus minus for even the 3rd quarter. Meaningless. It doesn't mean he played bad defense to counter his scoring, or anything like that.

But over a significant stretch of games plus/minus becomes very useful tool in comparing different lineups, combinations of players, etc. There is significant signal in the end that you can't explain away- if you filter out the noise.

if this means anything

https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/1/14/16888700/gregg-popovich-analytics-box-score-stats-plus-minus

YES WE KNOW

Plus-Minus measures the point differential between opposing teams when a particular player was on the floor. It can be useful in large sample sizes but is near meaningless as an individual stat in an isolated game.

nickhx2 · Post #59 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:17 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
PeteyPablo wrote:
The High Cyde wrote:I feel like this org has failed TMann, just feel like he should be playing a lot more

Eric Gordon, sweet pickup man

Eric Gordon's best year with the Clippers was 22ppg. He is a Lottery pick for a reason. Mr. Indiana .

T Mann should play more minutes - who says NO ?

Great win , but they should have also won on Saturday.

We should have won, but that's what good but not great teams do. They are good enough to win most of those games they should win, but not all. Especially without the best player (Norm too.) I think that's why I enjoy the victories, but don't get too down over the defeats.

for that matter that's kinda why this win was nice but unimpressive, to me. and i think as you said, "good" teams give up occasional games that are just head-scratching, while great teams put weaker teams in their god damn place. as flawed as the doc rivers lob city teams were, they had two things i had absolute confidence in: a true end-game closer who would take a close game home 9/10 times (kawhi is that guy but he either gets tired from digging the team out of holes or they just don't give him the ball), and the ability to wax the inferior opponents 9/10 times. i suppose there's technically a 3rd one which was one of blake or cp3 getting injured, which is also one reason they never fulfilled their potential but i digress!

this team does not give me any of that confidence. and that's because the major flaws are still there from game to game, are not ones that are being addressed, and after coming off of a "shoulda woulda coulda" game on saturday, i'm just not seeing the progress i'd want to see to feel confident in a postseason run.

esqtvd · Post #60 » by **esqtvd** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:55 pm

nickhx2 wrote: a true end-game closer who would take a close game home 9/10 times (kawhi is that guy but he either gets tired from digging the team out of holes or they just don't give him the ball), and the ability to wax the inferior opponents 9/10 times. i suppose there's technically a 3rd one which was one of blake or cp3 getting injured, which is also one reason they never fulfilled their potential but i digress!

this team does not give me any of that confidence. and that's because the major flaws are still there from game to game, are not ones that are being addressed, and after coming off of a "shoulda woulda coulda" game on saturday, i'm just not seeing the progress i'd want to see to feel confident in a postseason run.

true
No Kawhi no win

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