Kawhi injury - diagnosed with torn meniscus

[donemilio21]

Lawrance Frank just said "Kawhi will be ready to start the season"
So if Kawhi is not playing game 1 of next season, does Frank promise to resign? I'm tired of his lies year after year. I wish we had actual reporters who could ask these questions, rather than suck it up to the FO so they can keep covering the team.

[NickP]

I see both sides but I side more with JJ. I think JJ said that it's reasonable to discuss if they should make a trade, but send a guy home and force him to retire is a bit wild. Its year 4 but not all 4 have been bad from an investment standpoint.
First year, blew a 3-1 lead in the 2nd round. It was a weird year, Kawhi was all NBA second team with all star game MVP. I believe he was top 10 in jersey sales, clippers were top 10 in attendance, ahead of Lakers (so I think the trackable return on investment stuff he was kinda good for).
Year 2, he was first team all NBA - team and helps team makes the conference finals. He did get hurt on a fluky play, but first conference finals in team history. Attendance I believe dropped, pretty significantly, but that's COVID restrictions. I believe he's still top 15 in jersey sales.
Year 3, he does not play due to torn ACL. This was to be expected, several players miss seasons because of an ACL.
This year, he plays pretty well post December, unfortunately tears meniscus. Even if he doesn't tear it, it's a pretty uphill battle against a super team without pg13. But he's probably had more success in Clipperland than KD had in Brooklyn. Or James Harden post 2018. Or Damian Lillard in the past 4 years (definitely more playoff wins). So I don't get worst superstar. I'm not a stan. I get trading him. Unfortunately it's a similar string of injuries d rose had 2012 and 2013. D Rose missed the season after the year in November. Also I think d rose got similar slander cuz of his personality and not recruiting. D rose did go against lebron and had an ok year in 2014-2015 but wasn't quite the same. But I think d rose game was a bit more based on explosiveness.

Very well said. Your post deserve more props.

[Clemenza]

The latest from Skip. He's a troll and jackazz but for some reason he is kind of linked in with Kawhi's camp. I'm actually hoping there's some truth to this

Read on Twitter

[Roscoe Sheed]

The latest from Skip. He's a troll and jackazz but for some reason he is kind of linked in with Kawhi's camp. I'm actually hoping there's some truth to this

Read on Twitter

however- he has been saying this for years- that the relationship between Kawhi's camp and the Clippers is damaged and that he would likely leave. Wasn't he saying that he would leave the last time he was a FA because of the way his ACL injury was handled?

It seems like Skip just makes up stuff

[Ballings7]

Part 1 -- 12m30s: https://youtu.be/XmTZfdzLPNU?t=750 -- LOVED this... JJ more often than not is a great contrasting voice. Good podcast too.

0m-6m57s:

Watch on YouTube

Props to JJ here. Usually has given Kawhi his flowers and stuck up for him.

Very lively. Thanks for posting. I'm with Stephen A--Ballmer's just not getting his money's worth. This does not make Kawhi a bad person but NOT ONLY has he missed half the games and the last 2 1/2 playoffs, he's uncommunicative WITH the team and uncommunicative FOR the team. There's no value added; in fact there's a negative effect.

I didn't think JJ had much of an argument, basically that Kawhi's not dogging it and pro sports are painful, something Stephen A readily stipulated. The fact remains, the Clippers org can't TRUST Kawhi, that's the key word. There was also a reference to Tony Parker saying something to that effect back in their Spurs days. Nobody questions his work ethic, but all the rest is iffy.

Not that it's going to happen but as Stephen A said in passing, the best thing for the Clippers would be if Kawhi RETIRED, and took his money off the books. Looking toward the 2024 trading deadline, if Kawhi's healthy, the smart move WOULD be to deal him to a contender and get some sort of return. Even if somehow we won the title next year, between his ability to opt next summer or his continued health questions in 2024-25 and beyond,

There is no long-term future with Kawhi Leonard. Entering YEAR FIVE, that ship has sailed.

Fair points overall.

I don't disagree that overall, the Clippers best long-term decision is to move on from Kawhi when a good deal comes up. Atlanta or Washington might be good trading partners, just thinking off-hand. Both teams have a nice mix of assets and are in that "middle-tier" of team, but also wouldn't need to fully rely on him at the same time.

I also don't disagree with the general sentiment that Kawhi is unreliable due to his health and can't truly be a lead guy over a season (doesn't take away from his ability when healthy though -- he's still elite until he isn't); but I don't agree at all with the way people like SAS (and Colin Cowherd) deliver and structure the negative feedback on Kawhi like he's malicious or has alterior motives that are selfish, and should just abandon his career because of other people -- this is where I think JJ was coming from, and was defending him in that way in the least.

Also, SAS's insenstivity and inability to understand how people are psychologically, who aren't like himself, people he knows, or other more "flashy" athletes in the past or currently, doesn't make Kawhi Intentionally not marketing himself or putting in any effort to engage, etc - the way he is in terms of his emotions and interactions, intitiatives of communications influenced from that, are just how he's grown up and developed as a person, the guy is an introvert. Faulting him for that personal trait in that he does it on purpose, is fundamentally ignorant and inconsiderate to how other people are and have developed.

SAS has always acted this way in previous takes for years, on Kawhi's personality, along with Colin Cowherd, and it shows their lack of perspective and understanding of people in general that they can't relate to. Its just the way Kawhi is.

[Ballings7]

I see both sides but I side more with JJ. I think JJ said that it's reasonable to discuss if they should make a trade, but send a guy home and force him to retire is a bit wild. Its year 4 but not all 4 have been bad from an investment standpoint.
First year, blew a 3-1 lead in the 2nd round. It was a weird year, Kawhi was all NBA second team with all star game MVP. I believe he was top 10 in jersey sales, clippers were top 10 in attendance, ahead of Lakers (so I think the trackable return on investment stuff he was kinda good for).
Year 2, he was first team all NBA - team and helps team makes the conference finals. He did get hurt on a fluky play, but first conference finals in team history. Attendance I believe dropped, pretty significantly, but that's COVID restrictions. I believe he's still top 15 in jersey sales.
Year 3, he does not play due to torn ACL. This was to be expected, several players miss seasons because of an ACL.
This year, he plays pretty well post December, unfortunately tears meniscus. Even if he doesn't tear it, it's a pretty uphill battle against a super team without pg13. But he's probably had more success in Clipperland than KD had in Brooklyn. Or James Harden post 2018. Or Damian Lillard in the past 4 years (definitely more playoff wins). So I don't get worst superstar. I'm not a stan. I get trading him. Unfortunately it's a similar string of injuries d rose had 2012 and 2013. D Rose missed the season after the year in November. Also I think d rose got similar slander cuz of his personality and not recruiting. D rose did go against lebron and had an ok year in 2014-2015 but wasn't quite the same. But I think d rose game was a bit more based on explosiveness.

Yep. Agreed. Good post.

[esqtvd]

Part 1 -- 12m30s: https://youtu.be/XmTZfdzLPNU?t=750 -- LOVED this... JJ more often than not is a great contrasting voice. Good podcast too.

0m-6m57s:

Watch on YouTube

Props to JJ here. Usually has given Kawhi his flowers and stuck up for him.

Very lively. Thanks for posting. I'm with Stephen A--Ballmer's just not getting his money's worth. This does not make Kawhi a bad person but NOT ONLY has he missed half the games and the last 2 1/2 playoffs, he's uncommunicative WITH the team and uncommunicative FOR the team. There's no value added; in fact there's a negative effect.

I didn't think JJ had much of an argument, basically that Kawhi's not dogging it and pro sports are painful, something Stephen A readily stipulated. The fact remains, the Clippers org can't TRUST Kawhi, that's the key word. There was also a reference to Tony Parker saying something to that effect back in their Spurs days. Nobody questions his work ethic, but all the rest is iffy.

Not that it's going to happen but as Stephen A said in passing, the best thing for the Clippers would be if Kawhi RETIRED, and took his money off the books. Looking toward the 2024 trading deadline, if Kawhi's healthy, the smart move WOULD be to deal him to a contender and get some sort of return. Even if somehow we won the title next year, between his ability to opt next summer or his continued health questions in 2024-25 and beyond,

There is no long-term future with Kawhi Leonard. Entering YEAR FIVE, that ship has sailed.

Fair points overall.

I don't disagree that overall, the Clippers best long-term decision is to move on from Kawhi when a good deal comes up. Atlanta or Washington might be good trading partners, just thinking off-hand. Both teams have a nice mix of assets and are in that "middle-tier" of team, but also wouldn't need to fully rely on him at the same time.

I also don't disagree with the general sentiment and reality that Kawhi is unreliable due to his health and can't truly be a lead guy over a season (doesn't take away from his ability when healthy though); but I don't agree at all with the way people like SAS deliver and structure the negative feedback on Kawhi like he's malicious or has alterior motives that are selfish, and should just abandon his career because of other people -- this is where I think JJ was coming from, and was defending him in that way in the least.

I'm not sure anyone was serious about Kawhi walking away from his $40M+ a year, but if you only play half the games contracted for, I don't care how great you play, you're not giving fair value.

I'm trying to piece together L-Frank's remarks

Noting the past 28 NBA championships have been won by a top-three seed, Frank said the regular season must matter more to the Clippers and that “all of us, starting with me, we can compete harder every day.”

Well, here's the rub--It's KAWHI'S team, and it's KAWHI'S CULTURE. He played only 36 of the 60 games before the All-Star break and while he was still the best Clipper out there [22 ppg on 50/38 shooting], he didn't hit the MVP-level jets until the All-Star break [27 ppg, 54/47].

Now, Kawhi can ramp it up and turn it on when the time comes, but normal mortals can't. Montrezl caught a lot of hell for speaking out in January of Kawhi's first year, but he was right--the team culture was NOT one of playing hard every day: it was the ramp-up culture of entitlement, that everything would magically fall together and everybody would bust ass when the time came. [Remember PG assuring the world everything would be fine as we pissed away the 3-1 lead.]

Well, the 5th gear wasn't there when they went for it. The team had no resources to fall back on.

Now with YEAR FIVE on the horizon, Montrezl finally gets his validation--too late for him, though.

The team entered the season talking openly of its championship expectations but not even a week into the regular season George was already criticizing the team’s lack of practice intensity. At season’s end the Clippers needed three consecutive wins to earn the Western Conference’s fifth seed and avoid the play-in tournament. One of those wins, against an overmatched Portland roster, wasn’t secured until the final seconds, and afterward Leonard said that “we just needed more urgency in the game.”

“We have to be honest with ourselves and we have to look in the mirror,” Frank said in his season-ending news conference. “It starts with me and we have to get back to honoring and respecting the regular season. We have to compete harder, more consistently and we have to earn it.”

Their stars’ lack of availability because of injuries or the team’s approach of managing their workloads complicated how much continuity the Clippers could build, with Leonard and George playing 38 games together, with a 24-14 record, and 142 total games in four seasons. They last played a playoff game on June 14, 2021.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2023-04-27/kawhi-leonard-paul-george-clippers-future

[NickP]

Very lively. Thanks for posting. I'm with Stephen A--Ballmer's just not getting his money's worth. This does not make Kawhi a bad person but NOT ONLY has he missed half the games and the last 2 1/2 playoffs, he's uncommunicative WITH the team and uncommunicative FOR the team. There's no value added; in fact there's a negative effect.

I didn't think JJ had much of an argument, basically that Kawhi's not dogging it and pro sports are painful, something Stephen A readily stipulated. The fact remains, the Clippers org can't TRUST Kawhi, that's the key word. There was also a reference to Tony Parker saying something to that effect back in their Spurs days. Nobody questions his work ethic, but all the rest is iffy.

Not that it's going to happen but as Stephen A said in passing, the best thing for the Clippers would be if Kawhi RETIRED, and took his money off the books. Looking toward the 2024 trading deadline, if Kawhi's healthy, the smart move WOULD be to deal him to a contender and get some sort of return. Even if somehow we won the title next year, between his ability to opt next summer or his continued health questions in 2024-25 and beyond,

There is no long-term future with Kawhi Leonard. Entering YEAR FIVE, that ship has sailed.

Fair points overall.

I don't disagree that overall, the Clippers best long-term decision is to move on from Kawhi when a good deal comes up. Atlanta or Washington might be good trading partners, just thinking off-hand. Both teams have a nice mix of assets and are in that "middle-tier" of team, but also wouldn't need to fully rely on him at the same time.

I also don't disagree with the general sentiment and reality that Kawhi is unreliable due to his health and can't truly be a lead guy over a season (doesn't take away from his ability when healthy though); but I don't agree at all with the way people like SAS deliver and structure the negative feedback on Kawhi like he's malicious or has alterior motives that are selfish, and should just abandon his career because of other people -- this is where I think JJ was coming from, and was defending him in that way in the least.

I'm not sure anyone was serious about Kawhi walking away from his $40M+ a year, but if you only play half the games contracted for, I don't care how great you play, you're not giving fair value.

I'm trying to piece together L-Frank's remarks

Noting the past 28 NBA championships have been won by a top-three seed, Frank said the regular season must matter more to the Clippers and that “all of us, starting with me, we can compete harder every day.”

Well, here's the rub--It's KAWHI'S team, and it's KAWHI'S CULTURE. He played only 36 of the 60 games before the All-Star break and while he was still the best Clipper out there [22 ppg on 50/38 shooting], he didn't hit the MVP-level jets until the All-Star break [27 ppg, 54/47].

Now, Kawhi can ramp it up and turn it on when the time comes, but normal mortals can't. Montrezl caught a lot of hell for speaking out in January of Kawhi's first year, but he was right--the team culture was NOT one of playing hard every day: it was the ramp-up culture of entitlement, that everything would magically fall together and everybody would bust ass when the time came. [Remember PG assuring the world everything would be fine as we pissed away the 3-1 lead.]

Well, the 5th gear wasn't there when they went for it. The team had no resources to fall back on.

Now with YEAR FIVE on the horizon, Montrezl finally gets his validation--too late for him, though.

The team entered the season talking openly of its championship expectations but not even a week into the regular season George was already criticizing the team’s lack of practice intensity. At season’s end the Clippers needed three consecutive wins to earn the Western Conference’s fifth seed and avoid the play-in tournament. One of those wins, against an overmatched Portland roster, wasn’t secured until the final seconds, and afterward Leonard said that “we just needed more urgency in the game.”

“We have to be honest with ourselves and we have to look in the mirror,” Frank said in his season-ending news conference. “It starts with me and we have to get back to honoring and respecting the regular season. We have to compete harder, more consistently and we have to earn it.”

Their stars’ lack of availability because of injuries or the team’s approach of managing their workloads complicated how much continuity the Clippers could build, with Leonard and George playing 38 games together, with a 24-14 record, and 142 total games in four seasons. They last played a playoff game on June 14, 2021.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2023-04-27/kawhi-leonard-paul-george-clippers-future

LMFAO. You manage to dig up the ghost of Trez somehow. Props to you.

[esqtvd]

The team entered the season talking openly of its championship expectations but not even a week into the regular season George was already criticizing the team’s lack of practice intensity. At season’s end the Clippers needed three consecutive wins to earn the Western Conference’s fifth seed and avoid the play-in tournament. One of those wins, against an overmatched Portland roster, wasn’t secured until the final seconds, and afterward Leonard said that “we just needed more urgency in the game.”



Their stars’ lack of availability because of injuries or the team’s approach of managing their workloads complicated how much continuity the Clippers could build, with Leonard and George playing 38 games together, with a 24-14 record, and 142 total games in four seasons. They last played a playoff game on June 14, 2021.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2023-04-27/kawhi-leonard-paul-george-clippers-future


LMFAO. You manage to dig up the ghost of Trez somehow. Props to you.

LOL all right. But it's not funny. Trezz was proven right. L-Frank just said the same thing 3 1/2 years later. Even Kawhi sees it. The problem is, he's the wrong person to do anything about it. And that is our pickle, my friend. Kawhi wants to be a guest star on HIS OWN TEAM.

Noting the past 28 NBA championships have been won by a top-three seed, Frank said the regular season must matter more to the Clippers and that “all of us, starting with me, we can compete harder every day.”

[MartinToVaught]

Trez has washed out of how many different teams since leaving? And it's because he's the worst possible combination: a mediocre-at-best player with an inflated ego.

[esqtvd]

That doesn't make what he said any less true. After the death of a very close relative he was never the same, but as a 6'7" undersized and undertalented center, Trezz won 6th Man of the Year on effort and desire alone.

He was an overachiever, something NONE of the Kawhi-Era teams will EVER be accused of. And that's the issue here, not Trezz. Trezz is gone. The problem is still here.
___________________________________

ADD: The culture has to change. TWO MONTHS into its first season, Trezz was talking about KAWHI'S culture, and it's still here, and it still sucks. This org needs to bring it every night. We haven't brought it every night anytime in the Kawhi Era. It's not how he rolls.

Look, Kawhi takes care of Kawhi, and it's not even selfish or self-involved. Kawhi knows what Kawhi needs to be the best Kawhi he can be and The Best Kawhi is a winning Kawhi. Two championships, TWO-TIME FINALS MVP!

But we finished 42-40 this year and won one playoff game. It was kind of a misery. THIS team

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gortama01.html

won 48 games and won 2 games against GSW, who went to the Finals. Something has to give, and EVERYBODY knows it. Even Kawhi. The question is what he's going to DO about it.

Skip Bayless says that Kawhi's gonna do what Kawhi always does: BAIL. Kawhi gotta be Kawhi. You is what you is.

[Roscoe Sheed]

I get it- we're all frustrated. But let's take a step back. It is awful that Kawhi and PG keep getting injured, but they are 2 of the best, if not the 2 best players to ever play for the Clippers. They aren't that old either. Look at Anthony Davis- people were saying he was so injury prone that he was done being an impact player in the league, yet look at how he is playing now. Perhaps even more patience is in order.

[Roscoe Sheed]

The latest from Skip. He's a troll and jackazz but for some reason he is kind of linked in with Kawhi's camp. I'm actually hoping there's some truth to this

Read on Twitter

in what way have the Clippers done him wrong though? This seems baseless- as if most of the stuff Bayless says

[Clemenza]

Part 1 -- 12m30s: https://youtu.be/XmTZfdzLPNU?t=750 -- LOVED this... JJ more often than not is a great contrasting voice. Good podcast too.

0m-6m57s:

Watch on YouTube

Props to JJ here. Usually has given Kawhi his flowers and stuck up for him.

Very lively. Thanks for posting. I'm with Stephen A--Ballmer's just not getting his money's worth. This does not make Kawhi a bad person but NOT ONLY has he missed half the games and the last 2 1/2 playoffs, he's uncommunicative WITH the team and uncommunicative FOR the team. There's no value added; in fact there's a negative effect.

I didn't think JJ had much of an argument, basically that Kawhi's not dogging it and pro sports are painful, something Stephen A readily stipulated. The fact remains, the Clippers org can't TRUST Kawhi, that's the key word. There was also a reference to Tony Parker saying something to that effect back in their Spurs days. Nobody questions his work ethic, but all the rest is iffy.

Not that it's going to happen but as Stephen A said in passing, the best thing for the Clippers would be if Kawhi RETIRED, and took his money off the books. Looking toward the 2024 trading deadline, if Kawhi's healthy, the smart move WOULD be to deal him to a contender and get some sort of return. Even if somehow we won the title next year, between his ability to opt next summer or his continued health questions in 2024-25 and beyond,

There is no long-term future with Kawhi Leonard. Entering YEAR FIVE, that ship has sailed.

Fair points overall.

I don't disagree that overall, the Clippers best long-term decision is to move on from Kawhi when a good deal comes up. Atlanta or Washington might be good trading partners, just thinking off-hand. Both teams have a nice mix of assets and are in that "middle-tier" of team, but also wouldn't need to fully rely on him at the same time.

I also don't disagree with the general sentiment that Kawhi is unreliable due to his health and can't truly be a lead guy over a season (doesn't take away from his ability when healthy though -- he's still elite until he isn't); but I don't agree at all with the way people like SAS (and Colin Cowherd) deliver and structure the negative feedback on Kawhi like he's malicious or has alterior motives that are selfish, and should just abandon his career because of other people -- this is where I think JJ was coming from, and was defending him in that way in the least.

Also, SAS's insenstivity and inability to understand how people are psychologically, who aren't like himself, people he knows, or other more "flashy" athletes in the past or currently, doesn't make Kawhi Intentionally not marketing himself or putting in any effort to engage, etc - the way he is in terms of his emotions and interactions, intitiatives of communications influenced from that, are just how he's grown up and developed as a person, the guy is an introvert. Faulting him for that personal trait in that he does it on purpose, is fundamentally ignorant and inconsiderate to how other people are and have developed.

SAS has always acted this way in previous takes for years, on Kawhi's personality, along with Colin Cowherd, and it shows their lack of perspective and understanding of people in general that they can't relate to. Its just the way Kawhi is.

In all honesty, I'm glad some of these assh*le talking network heads ripped into Kawhi. All the star players get it pretty much except Kawhi. Now that's he's finally getting his fair share just maybe he'll finally know that ain't sh*t sweet out here in these streets. Maybe he gets pissed as hell and goes to Europe for one of those new age surgeries on this knee and comes back to destroy the league and takes us to the Finals. Did you guys ever think of that or is it always, "Poor Kawhi, they can't say that about him. Leave him alone. This isn't right." He's got a couple of mansions and makes $40 plus million a season. He's fine. Get these guys out of their comfort zone for once and get them angry

[Clemenza]

I get it- we're all frustrated. But let's take a step back. It is awful that Kawhi and PG keep getting injured, but they are 2 of the best, if not the 2 best players to ever play for the Clippers. They aren't that old either. Look at Anthony Davis- people were saying he was so injury prone that he was done being an impact player in the league, yet look at how he is playing now. Perhaps even more patience is in order.

So how do we even go about this? Sh*t hit the fan and all the tomatoes were tossed at the team all season long and into the playoffs that ended in huge disappointment. Lawrence Frank said that the organization is still on the PG & Kawhi train. But what happens if Kawhi gets injured next season and "gasp" even gets injured during the playoffs all over again? Where do we go from there because that will be Defcon 2 and on the verge of a complete meltdown and total chaos between the team, fans, coaches, and front office. We can't physically and mentally take on another episode of our stars injured during the playoffs again despite Frank saying "we have to earn the trust of our fans again and start taking the regular season serious again." I don't understand it at all what they're talking about or trying to do to remedy that situation.

[MartinToVaught]

It is awful that Kawhi and PG keep getting injured, but they are 2 of the best, if not the 2 best players to ever play for the Clippers.

The word "play" is being used generously here. When it matters most, they're on the sidelines in street clothes. PG has appeared in more podcast episodes than playoff games in the last two years. And as the years go by and the mileage on their bodies increases, they aren't going to get less injury-prone.

We've spent the Kawhi/PG era watching the Lakers win a ring, the Suns go to the Finals, the Warriors win a ring, and now the Lakers almost certainly cakewalking their way to another easy ring, and all we have to show for it is one WCF that we lost because (shocker!) Kawhi was out with an injury. There's patience, and then there's masochism.

[Roscoe Sheed]

It is awful that Kawhi and PG keep getting injured, but they are 2 of the best, if not the 2 best players to ever play for the Clippers.

The word "play" is being used generously here. When it matters most, they're on the sidelines in street clothes. PG has appeared in more podcast episodes than playoff games in the last two years. And as the years go by and the mileage on their bodies increases, they aren't going to get less injury-prone.

We've spent the Kawhi/PG era watching the Lakers win a ring, the Suns go to the Finals, the Warriors win a ring, and now the Lakers almost certainly cakewalking their way to another easy ring, and all we have to show for it is one WCF that we lost because (shocker!) Kawhi was out with an injury. There's patience, and then there's masochism.

It is definitely frustrating that they keep getting injured, but It is difficult to get players of the caliber of Kawhi and PG. Sure, explore trade options, but if you can't get good value in a trade then just keep rolling with this roster until they are around 35-36 and then rebuild. True, they likely will keep getting injured and/or disappoint, but you never know what will happen- Dallas in 2011, Toronto in 2019, and Milwaukee in 2021 faced previous seasons of frustration until the stars finally aligned for them.

Perhaps the Lakers will win another title this year- but they are far from the favorites. They would likely be somewhat favored against the Kings, but not against the Warriors. They would also be underdogs against Phoenix, Denver, and Boston.

[MartinToVaught]

True, they likely will keep getting injured and/or disappoint, but you never know what will happen- Dallas in 2011, Toronto in 2019, and Milwaukee in 2021 faced previous seasons of frustration until the stars finally aligned for them.

Dirk played in 2011. Giannis played in 2021. Kawhi just barely got through a whole postseason in 2019 - what are the odds that this will ever happen again? And Toronto made big changes going into that season. They didn't run it back with the same core and coach and magically have different results like Frank's trying to do.

We'll never have one of those breakthrough seasons when our best players don't play and our coach doesn't know how to coach. And there's no reason to believe either of those will change. We're pretty much banking on a miracle here, but miracles never happen for the Clippers, so I'd rather focus on what's realistic.

[Captain Ballmer]

True, they likely will keep getting injured and/or disappoint, but you never know what will happen- Dallas in 2011, Toronto in 2019, and Milwaukee in 2021 faced previous seasons of frustration until the stars finally aligned for them.

Dirk played in 2011. Giannis played in 2021. Kawhi just barely got through a whole postseason in 2019 - what are the odds that this will ever happen again? And Toronto made big changes going into that season. They didn't run it back with the same core and coach and magically have different results like Frank's trying to do.

We'll never have one of those breakthrough seasons when our best players don't play and our coach doesn't know how to coach. And there's no reason to believe either of those will change. We're pretty much banking on a miracle here, but miracles never happen for the Clippers, so I'd rather deal in reality.

Also lets not forget. Dirk was Mavs all timer, teams got built around him. Same for Giannis(Middleton) and Bucks. You win with what you built, not with what you assembled.

Toronto was a perennial 50 win team before Kawhi trade. Spurs was perennial 50 win team with Duncan-Parker-Ginobili. Kawhi is/was the ultimate mercenary for a team who can win 50 pieces without him. We trade our possible foundation in 2019 and never built anything since then. Kawhi can't let you. Clippers are all about assembling talents & reclamation projects with FO mastery. There are no stars to align for this team.

[wco81]

You have two potential all-NBA level players with these two.

You can try to trade them but you won't get anyone as good. Maybe they won't escape injury but they just won't be as productive.

Look around the league, whom do you expect to get back? Nobody is trading an All NBA player unless he's disgruntled and likely to demand a trade out.

So you might get a multiple all-star. Maybe someone like Julius Randle. Or I'm sure the 76ers would give you Tobias Harris back for either KL or PG13.

Maybe if the Celts don't win it this year and Brown is unhappy, he might force his way out. But he's likely to make all NBA and set himself up for a super Max extension with the Celtics so he isn't going to be moved, unless that ownership doesn't want to pay a second super Max contract.

That is about the best player you can hope to get back but Celts would have to pay Kawhi or PG13 as much as Brown would get, for older, more injury-prone player.

So that isn't happening.

Maybe a player like Beal, Wizards want to get off that contract.

Otherwise, it's not obvious what kind of assets the Clippers can get back. With the new CBA, they say they will phase in the rules that were crafted to target the Clippers and the Warriors but you might have difficulty trading one or two max contract players.

A lot less flexibility than before.

So your best chance is to probably extend both players and hope for better health in the spring.

In any event, a trade might not materialize before the next trade deadline, which would be in February?

If one or both are injured for much of the start of next season and the Clippers don't have a great record in January or early February, maybe trades are made even if the return isn't the best.

But Clippers owner has the deepest wallet in the league so why wouldn't he sign them to extensions?

If they both walk in July 2024, that opens up almost $100 million cap space but what free agents are out there for next year?

Maybe someone like Embiid. Or maybe Brown really tries to walk out of Boston.

But would KL and PG13 really want to leave SoCal? Not sure which teams would have a lot of cap space anyways.