We're Not Alone -- Teams in a Situation Like Ours

[TrueLAfan]

• Monty’s gone. Suns clearly need help to be a contender; they likely need to trade a big money player.
• Budenholzer’s gone. The Bucks are likely to make some moves involving high rotation players.
• Nick Nurse is out. The Raptors need some serious retooling.
• Steve Kerr just looks tired. No idea if the Warriors will try to run it back.
• (Don’t even ask about Dallas.)

My point? We’re not alone, man. Lot of teams that had been serious contenders in the last few years are in our boat. We’re talking about trading rotation players, maybe even PG or Kawhi. The Suns are already making noise about moving Ayton or maybe CP3. Middleton has a player option for over $40 million this year and only played about 50 more minutes than John Wall did this year. Lopez and Crowder are Free Agents. Poetl is a FA; Van Vleet and Trent have PO and are already the subject of trade rumors. Draymond has a PO, Klay looks washed, Poole looks waaay overpaid.

There are others, but those four other teams are sitting like we are. Similar situations. Great players who have injury issues and/or aging. Salaries that make it hard to retool/rebuild, and a new CBA that will make it that much tougher.

This is good and bad—unfortunately, IMO, mostly bad. It’s really nice and all that to see others are having struggles like we are. So we’re not alone! But that also means that, if we choose to try to mov players, there will competition from others teams like us trying to do the exact same thing … and, yes, there are and will be other teams like us that are looking to do the exact same thing we end up doing. That’s bad.

It does mean that, if we go for a fairly extensive retool, we need to strike fast and hard, before others get involved and/or get moving on their own offseason plans. I’m reading that the Suns are interested in Lue. For us. I think he’s the indicator. Let Lue go and move to a newer, younger coach – that would be a major sign of a change in direction. Keep Lue, and we're likely to retool what we can and mostly run it back.

[MartinToVaught]

• The Suns made the Finals at our expense.
• The Bucks won a ring and have prime Giannis.
• The Raptors won a ring.
• The Warriors have a whole dynasty.
• Mavs fans at least have 2011 to look back on, and Luka in his prime.

Meanwhile, all we have to show for the past decade is one WCF appearance that was over before it started. Our situation is objectively worse because we've experienced all of the downsides and basically none of the upside.

It doesn't help that the organization keeps doing the exact same things over and over again that we know aren't conducive to winning when it matters. Take the coaching situation, for example: Lue does need to go, but what are the odds that we actually think outside the box for the next hire instead of making the same uninspiring retread hire that we always make? You have to go all the way back to Don Casey in 1989 for our last head coach who wasn't previously fired by another team, and even he was promoted from within as an interim coach after Gene Shue was fired. It would not surprise me at all if Frank mailed it in again like he did with the last search and settled for someone like Monty who everyone knows is mediocre at best. There are great coaches all over the world, but somehow we always end up with someone who already wasn't good enough for a more successful franchise and convince ourselves it will be different here.

[ejftw]

Raptors are in control of their picks and the Warriors are winding down while needing to figure out this summer as the new CBA seemingly is targeted towards them and the Clips.

If it wasn't for this new CBA, I wouldn't be worried. But, these restrictions make me think this will be an off-season of taking on salary to make the final year at Staples a bang, before two years of treading and a process type of rebuild to tank for a current 5th grader

[Clemenza]

Outside of the Suns all those other teams have a Larry O'Brian in their trophy case. Warriors with several of them. I will say that it does appear that pretty much every fanbase can't stand their head coach

[esqtvd]

...because you can't fire the owner.

[Dynamix]

...because you can't fire the owner.

Is this going to be your main talking point for the entire summer? Ballmer's biggest mistake as an owner was not getting rid of Doc sooner.

[og15]

Outside of the Suns all those other teams have a Larry O'Brian in their trophy case. Warriors with several of them. I will say that it does appear that pretty much every fanbase can't stand their head coach

NBA...sports head coaching is a thankless job unless you win it all or overachieve every year basically.

There can always be an idea of what you could have done instead, and of course everyone else's plan would obviously have worked , and sometimes credit is hard to get.

[madmaxmedia]

Somehow the Suns may have leapfrogged us, that's the cup half-full perspective. I would say next year is their best chance at capitalizing on their big all-in trade, so we'll see. Dallas is looking really iffy with their superstar add as well. And of course Minnesota made the worst trade of all.

The nature of pro sports CBA's now is that it can be really hard to generate an edge over other teams, which is generally a good thing. You can't just buy your way to a title (would have been nice after Ballmer bought the team though. )

If Kawhi and PG could just have a mostly healthy regular season and be healthy for an entire playoff run, I'd still look forward to it even if we're not favorites. But 4 years in, we only had 1 such year.

[donemilio21]

I disagree. We are in a worse situation than other teams.
First of all all the those teams either have a generational talent locked for multiple years (Giannis, Durant, Curry, Luka) or have won a ring in the past 5 years (Bucks, Warriors, Raptors).

What we have is no rings, no salary flexibility, and our best player on paper is a guy who has one triple double in his entire career and is almost never on the floor when it counts.

[esqtvd]

...because you can't fire the owner.

Is this going to be your main talking point for the entire summer? Ballmer's biggest mistake as an owner was not getting rid of Doc sooner.

yes it's all Doc's fault

now THERE'S a dead horse lol

[esqtvd]

Outside of the Suns all those other teams have a Larry O'Brian in their trophy case. Warriors with several of them. I will say that it does appear that pretty much every fanbase can't stand their head coach

NBA...sports head coaching is a thankless job unless you win it all or overachieve every year basically.

There can always be an idea of what you could have done instead, and of course everyone else's plan would obviously have worked , and sometimes credit is hard to get.

Hired to be fired. The bloodbath this year is particularly striking. Kerr would probably be taking the fall too if he hadn't banked so many Larrys.

[Bobbymcgee]

I am just waiting for the Clippers to announce that Leonard is going to miss x amount of time next season due to his latest injury.

[donemilio21]

I am just waiting for the Clippers to announce that Leonard is going to miss x amount of time next season due to his latest injury.

he'll miss the entire season, but they'll say he is day-to-day until late January.

[TrueLAfan]

I get it that others are looking at teams that won titles or made it to the finals in the past 5-7 years. This is kind of where our board splits, though. I really want to win a title … but I think what happened to a team five years ago is almost totally irrelevant. I’m interested in next season. That’s what we are making decisions about now. The Suns are absolutely not looking at next season and thinking “Remember when we went to the finals a few seasons ago? That was great!” It was great for Suns fans—past tense. I wish we had more memories like that as Clipper fans. But Phoenix still needs to figure out Ayton, CP3 and coaching now. Same as us. Golden State has had a dynasty. The relationship between Jordan Poole and Draymond Green is a lot more relevant than the titles in terms of next season. It’s because it’s their relationship now.

This is also, btw, why I personally just don’t spend much time on Doc Rivers, or Austin Rivers, or Lob City. Lots of good memories. Wish we’d done better. All in the past. I’m a fan; I'm waiting for next year.

I’ll say this again—what we’re pissed about, what’s killing us, is the timing of injuries. I absolutely hate load management—and I think given the teams that are continuing to be successful this year, the value of load management is more and more questionable. But we’re bitching about stuff now because PG wasn’t ready for round 1 and Kawhi got hurt after playing only two playoff games. The Lakers aren’t in the conference finals because AD and LeBron have been healthy; they’re in that spot because the players are healthy now.

Also, unfortunately, it’s easy to say “those guys are always hurt.” Because they are. Right up until they aren’t. Anthony Davis has played 20 games in a row only two times since 2018. Once was the 2020 playoffs. The other time is right now. The fact is that the timing of his missed games has been better than our guys. And he’s still in the playoffs now. The fact is that Kawhi played more than almost all of the top 7 MVP vote getters in the second half, and played at an MVP level. It doens't matter because he got hurt as the playoffs began. The Lakers have been lucky with AD and LeBron so far in the playoffs. We weren't.

To get back to the topic—add Philly to the problematic list. Harden looked completely lost in Game 7; it was actually embarrassing. And, as someone on another thread noted, Atlanta is another team with a new coach and a lot of player questions—are they going to build around Young, Hunter, and Murray? I’ve never seen an offseason with as many questions marks as this one and that’s not counting the new CBA.

[madmaxmedia]

Outside of the Suns all those other teams have a Larry O'Brian in their trophy case. Warriors with several of them. I will say that it does appear that pretty much every fanbase can't stand their head coach

NBA...sports head coaching is a thankless job unless you win it all or overachieve every year basically.

There can always be an idea of what you could have done instead, and of course everyone else's plan would obviously have worked , and sometimes credit is hard to get.

Hired to be fired. The bloodbath this year is particularly striking. Kerr would probably be taking the fall too if he hadn't banked so many Larrys.

The earlier you get fired, the more years you get paid not to work.

[madmaxmedia]

The Paul George injury was a killer, and it it's hard for me to blame his durability given what happened on the play he got hurt.

The nature of the modern CBA in most pro sports (which IMO are generally pretty good at balancing many factors) is you bide your time on the sidelines, but have to go all-in at some point or the other and hope for the best. By definition there are only so many generational stars in the league at one time (or even stars for that matter), and in the NBA you generally need at least 2 stars to be a strong title contender. You can't even just keep waiting for too long, or else the couple of good pieces you have are going to either leave via FA or get big pay raises that eat up your cap. So you strike when you think the iron might get hot enough, and then hope you are the 1 team in 30 that actually has the hottest iron by season's end.

In this context, I think the recent run up in trade value of aging superstars reflects the 'all or nothing' mentality in sports now. Either win a title, or you failed. I'm not saying that mentality is wrong, it's arbitrary and subjective for each team and sports fan. Either way, it has definitely increased the price for these big pieces that teams hope will put them over the top.

Would you rather have a run of 50 win seasons with only a slim outsider's chance (say 8-10%) of winning even a conference title every year, or go for broke and put in all your chips for a say 25% chance of winning a title for a couple of years, followed by a long teardown and rebuild? Teams are increasingly going for the latter it seems.

[esqtvd]

Sixers could have kept Jimmy Butler

Clippers could have got him but slept, then wept

my two teams hitched their wagons to losers instead

[MartinToVaught]

IIRC, Jimmy was one of the guys Kawhi tried to recruit here but he was set on going to Miami. Not much we could have done about that. It's the Sixers who should be kicking themselves.

[ejftw]

IIRC, Jimmy was one of the guys Kawhi tried to recruit here but he was set on going to Miami. Not much we could have done about that. It's the Sixers who should be kicking themselves.

How I remember it as well, and, ironically, we helped Miami clear enough cap to sign him as well, getting Miami's first this year, which, we sent for PG.

But hey, Jimmy wanted Riley, he wasn't changing his mind

[madmaxmedia]

Sixers could have kept Jimmy Butler

Clippers could have got him but slept, then wept

my two teams hitched their wagons to losers instead

Well, of the 2 or 3 superstars in this conversation, only 1 has a ring. I love Jimmy too, but he’s not exactly the poster boy for health or youth either (well, maybe compared to Kawhi and PG he is )

I think Jimmy and Pat make for a great pair though, and this playoff run has been incredible.