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in da house

Arghh. I can’t watch KPJ anymore. For the love of god we need a trade.

DJJ and Dunn have become liabilities from the 3pt line.

LamarWho wrote:DJJ and Dunn have become liabilities from the 3pt line.

Yeah. They just leave Dunn open to shoot. Keeps the ball away from Kawhi, Powell, or Harden shooting it.

HardenGoat wrote:Arghh. I can’t watch KPJ anymore. For the love of god we need a trade.

You see the floor; the Clippers see the ceiling, which is higher than anyone outside the Top Four. He's not doing much tonight but he's a steady contributor in rebs and assists, and is athletic as hell.

At the moment he's plus+10 in only 11 minutes. He's not hurting us out there.

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:Arghh. I can’t watch KPJ anymore. For the love of god we need a trade.

You see the floor; the Clippers see the ceiling, which is higher than anyone outside the Top Four. He's not doing much tonight but he's a steady contributor in rebs and assists, and is athletic as hell.

At the moment he's plus+10 in only 11 minutes. He's not hurting us out there.

He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

HardenGoat wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:Arghh. I can’t watch KPJ anymore. For the love of god we need a trade.

You see the floor; the Clippers see the ceiling, which is higher than anyone outside the Top Four. He's not doing much tonight but he's a steady contributor in rebs and assists, and is athletic as hell.

At the moment he's plus+10 in only 11 minutes. He's not hurting us out there.

He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

lol

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:

esqtvd wrote:
You see the floor; the Clippers see the ceiling, which is higher than anyone outside the Top Four. He's not doing much tonight but he's a steady contributor in rebs and assists, and is athletic as hell.

At the moment he's plus+10 in only 11 minutes. He's not hurting us out there.

He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

I guess I see both when he's on the floor? I mean plenty of bad for sure, but he's definitely the most athletically gifted of that group and big for a back court player. But I think even he's too old to expect to make a truly great leap forward.

He is sort of a Chaos Machine for us, and I think Ty recognizes we often need that on the floor- even if that chaos sometimes acts against us.

I think the biggest problem now is that his shot seems broken. He was never a great shooter but this year is still a significant falloff from his past. If at least that could come back, he'd give us a much better package overall.

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:

esqtvd wrote:
You see the floor; the Clippers see the ceiling, which is higher than anyone outside the Top Four. He's not doing much tonight but he's a steady contributor in rebs and assists, and is athletic as hell.

At the moment he's plus+10 in only 11 minutes. He's not hurting us out there.

He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

Bones. Still prefer him over KPJ. Unlike KPJ, he never got a shot. Didn't get a shot last year after we traded for Harden, hasn't got a shot this year so far.

madmaxmedia wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

I guess I see both when he's on the floor? I mean plenty of bad for sure, but he's definitely the most athletically gifted of that group and big for a back court player. But I think even he's too old to expect to make a truly great leap forward.

He is sort of a Chaos Machine for us, and I think Ty recognizes we often need that on the floor- even if that chaos sometimes acts against us.

I think the biggest problem now is that his shot seems broken. He was never a great shooter but this year is still a significant falloff from his past. If at least that could come back, he'd give us a much better package overall.

I view KPJ as similar to Reggie. A guy that often goes space cadet mode during crucial moments, but adds enough value throughout the game that I'm willing to accept it.

While Reggie was a much better 3pt shooter, KPJ is more versatile. He provides decent defense, passing, good size for a guard, and is very athletic... Not uncommon to see him with 10-5-5 type games.

Wasn't there a stat that showed his inside scoring was really good?

LamarWho wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

Bones. Still prefer him over KPJ. Unlike KPJ, he never got a shot. Didn't get a shot last year after we traded for Harden, hasn't got a shot this year so far.

FTR: Bones has the worst plus/minus on the Clippers by far. Dead last @ minus-10.5 per 100 possessions. He DOES kill us out there, which is why he's eating pine.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=Per100Possessions&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

LamarWho wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

Bones. Still prefer him over KPJ. Unlike KPJ, he never got a shot. Didn't get a shot last year after we traded for Harden, hasn't got a shot this year so far.

I wish Bones would've hit the weight room. Him coming into training camp smaller & thinner every season has been one of the issues stagnanting his game and playing time imo.

The issue with KPJ is his knuckleball jumps shot is broken and he has to put hot sauce on every move and play. Keep it simple and make the right play and he'll look much better out there.

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:

esqtvd wrote:
You see the floor; the Clippers see the ceiling, which is higher than anyone outside the Top Four. He's not doing much tonight but he's a steady contributor in rebs and assists, and is athletic as hell.

At the moment he's plus+10 in only 11 minutes. He's not hurting us out there.

He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

There's no difference in 24 years old to 25 and he has to somehow find the jumper he had in Houston as opposed to the one he has now.

Zu 20/20 and a DNP for Mann?

Clemenza wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

HardenGoat wrote:He did better his second stint in. The first was aimless it seemed. I think he plays better with Harden in there rather than alone. He’s not a bad shooter when open. Also has a decent foul line mid range shot he can get on his own consistently. I’ll give it more time.

The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

There's no difference in 24 years old to 25 and he has to somehow find the jumper he had in Houston as opposed to the one he has now.

It's a very good point, especially the 3-pointer, which he's shooting in the twenties. But he is contributing assists and rebounds, is good at the rim, and has produced more points and assists than 28-year-old Terance Mann in 1800 fewer NBA minutes [and nearly as many rebounds]. For $13M less a year. By most any metric, KPJ remains the most promising and most playable "young talent" on the roster.

esqtvd wrote:

LamarWho wrote:

esqtvd wrote:
The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

Bones. Still prefer him over KPJ. Unlike KPJ, he never got a shot. Didn't get a shot last year after we traded for Harden, hasn't got a shot this year so far.

FTR: Bones has the worst plus/minus on the Clippers by far. Dead last @ minus-10.5 per 100 possessions. He DOES kill us out there, which is why he's eating pine.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=Per100Possessions&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

It's really a shame, because some of the individual pieces of his game look really good. The bad is not as glaringly obvious as KPJ's bass, but they are obviously there as well.

esqtvd wrote:

Clemenza wrote:

esqtvd wrote:
The other thing is, KPJ's our only real "young" talent. He's only 24: Jordan Miller and Kobe Brown are 25 this month; Coffey is 27, DJJ and T-Mann are 28. Dunn is 30. KPJ has room to grow and has already been a 19 ppg scorer in the NBA. The others are pretty much finished products.

So THAT'S the reason I think the Clips are investing PT in him. It makes sense since he's really not killing us out there. He's giving us 9.7 points and 19.8 decent minutes a game at a fraction of the price Mann does [$2.5M vs $15M], is more athletic, is producing more rebs and assists, and is 3 1/2 years younger.

There's no difference in 24 years old to 25 and he has to somehow find the jumper he had in Houston as opposed to the one he has now.

It's a very good point, especially the 3-pointer, which he's shooting in the twenties. But he is contributing assists and rebounds, is good at the rim, and has produced more points and assists than 28-year-old Terance Mann in 1800 fewer NBA minutes [and nearly as many rebounds]. For $13M less a year. By most any metric, KPJ remains the most promising and most playable "young talent" on the roster.

That is kind of good, kind of alarming. Just like his game LOL.

madmaxmedia wrote:

esqtvd wrote:

Clemenza wrote:
There's no difference in 24 years old to 25 and he has to somehow find the jumper he had in Houston as opposed to the one he has now.

It's a very good point, especially the 3-pointer, which he's shooting in the twenties. But he is contributing assists and rebounds, is good at the rim, and has produced more points and assists than 28-year-old Terance Mann in 1800 fewer NBA minutes [and nearly as many rebounds]. For $13M less a year. By most any metric, KPJ remains the most promising and most playable "young talent" on the roster.

That is kind of good, kind of alarming. Just like his game LOL.

I don't get too caught up in loving or hating. I want them all to do well. But what I DO do is try to figure out Ty's thinking, and it's almost always borne out by the bottom line.