Page 1 of 3

The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:21 am
by GuyverX
Okay, we have some new fuel for the fire.

Reasons debated as Elton Brand leaves Clippers for 76ers
Star and his agent say it was Clippers' first low offer and other issues that made them look elsewhere. Coach Mike Dunleavy says team did everything to retain Brand and will move on with Baron Davis.

By Jonathan Abrams
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

July 10, 2008

One thing is certain: Elton Brand is now a Philadelphia 76er.

How, exactly, he got there, was up for debate Wednesday among the Clippers, Brand and his agent, David Falk.

Brand, who signed a five-year deal with the 76ers worth an estimated $82 million, originally received an offer from the Clippers last week for five years and $70 million, a deal that was delivered as a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum, Falk said.

"I wasn't angry, but I was surprised. You don't expect a team to give a franchise player an ultimatum. You wouldn't expect the Lakers to do that with Kobe Bryant. You wouldn't expect the Heat to do that with Dwyane Wade," Falk said.


Countered Clippers Coach Mike Dunleavy:

"After I supposedly gave him a take it or leave it offer, we raised the offer to $75 million and $81 million. They can spin this thing anyway they want to try and spin it. The bottom line is, anything Elton ever wanted I did it for him. They stopped having communication with us more than a week ago."

And finally, the player himself:

"That was my intent to sign with the Clippers," Brand said Thursday. "But I'm not a lawyer. We need to make a deal. And in making the deal, it fell through."

Falk said Brand opted out of the final season of his contract with the Clippers, a season in which he was owed $16.4 million, with every intention of re-signing with the organization.

"In free agency, everything is compressed," said Falk, who also represented Michael Jordan and negotiated Sam Cassell's buyout from the Clippers last season.

"You don't have time to play ping-pong. When they said $70 [million], I took it for face value. It was too much of a sacrifice, that's all."


Falk said neither he, nor Brand, was seeking revenge or additional money and, if that had been the case, they would have accepted a five-year and $90-million offer from Golden State.

"Elton made the decision," Falk said. "Coming to Philadelphia wasn't a move made out of revenge. The Warriors were terrific. They were patient and waited. And I know they were very disappointed. If revenge was the motive, he would have ended up in Golden State."

Others in the Clippers organization, including some of Brand's former teammates, believed a deal had been locked in place with him, especially after a verbal agreement was reached with free-agent point guard Baron Davis. Brand had text messaged teammates that he was excited about the prospects of the team, according to NBA sources who requested anonymity because they are not authorized to talk about player movements.

Falk said that he found out, belatedly, that the Clippers had been negotiating with Brand without his agent. "I didn't know it then, I know it now," Falk said. "I know it after the fact. It's probably the reason that the deal fell apart."

Still, once the negotiations officially began between the parties last week, with Falk involved, a sticking point became an early termination option that Brand wanted.

Brand said he was told the Clippers could not get owner Donald T. Sterling on the phone to grant the request. So, he and Falk immediately began to look elsewhere.

"It's negotiations. No matter what was said, David Falk, my registered agent, never agreed to any deal" with the Clippers, Brand said.

Said Dunleavy:

"I don't know what poisoned Elton against us. But obviously something did. I loved Elton as a player. I'm disappointed and hurt that he left us, but I wish him the best in his future career in Philadelphia."

Late last week, after the Warriors offered Brand $90 million, the Clippers upped their offer to $75 million. Then, Tuesday, the 76ers made a trade to clear some cap space for Brand. That was when the Clippers offered him $81-million deal for five years, a deal, Falk said, that was only extended after the organization knew they had accepted Philadelphia's offer.

Brand reiterated that he felt the Clippers' first offer was a take-it-or-leave it demand: "That's exactly what it was. Or that's what they said it was. And then, they came back and matched. But it's like, 'OK, do that the first time.' "

Dunleavy said the Clippers never got the proper chance, because the communication lines had been cut.


In the end, Brand said the decision was made to be closer to his family -- he is from New York -- and the chance to play with a strong, young nucleus in Philadelphia.

And what about that potential Brand-Davis pairing?

"That could have been a good team and a real special team. But sometimes, enough is enough," Brand said. "I wish them well. They're not bad people and this isn't like a get-out-of-jail card."

But, he is gone, with a Clippers Nation wondering what went so wrong, so fast.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/clippers/la-sp-clippers10-2008jul10,0,2055853.story

So this is what we get from this article:

Brand claims:

He felt he wasn't being treated like a franchise player
The Clippers' offer of $70 million was "take it or leave it"
A major part of the deal was an ETO, which the Clippers denied
Dunleavy tried to negotiate with Brand without Falk's knowledge
The Clippers offer of $81mil was too little too late

Dunleavy claims:

The offer of $70mil offer was not "take it or leave it" but was part of negotiations
Brand and Falk wouldn't give the Clippers a chance to negotiate
He did whatever Brand asked him to do
The Brand camp cut off all communication over a week ago.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:39 am
by enigmatics
Man Falk and Brand are talking themselves into the ground. The part you highlighted about Falk and the team going behind his back is the biggest sign of a power play of revenge on his part. I feel bad for you guys. Either Brand is a two-face or the darkside of Falk led him astray ........history points to Falk as just that kind of guy.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:44 am
by GuyverX
To me, the one thing that I really can buy into is Brand and Falk cutting off all communications over a freaking weak ago. That means that since Brand opted out, Dunleavy is saying they haven't even talked it over at all. What type of negotation is that? We only just came to terms with Baron Davis exactly a week ago.

It just sounds more and more like Brand changed his mind, didn't want to be here and then is now trying to make it sound like the Clipper F.O. forced him to leave for Philly. That's what they want us to believe but I'm not buying it.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:47 am
by madmaxmedia
GuyverX wrote:So this is what we get from this article:

Brand claims:

He felt he wasn't being treated like a franchise player
The Clippers' offer of $70 million was "take it or leave it"
A major part of the deal was an ETO, which the Clippers denied
Dunleavy tried to negotiate with Brand without Falk's knowledge
The Clippers offer of $81mil was too little too late

Dunleavy claims:

The offer of $70mil offer was not "take it or leave it" but was part of negotiations
Brand and Falk wouldn't give the Clippers a chance to negotiate
He did whatever Brand asked him to do
The Brand camp cut off all communication over a week ago.


That's a good rundown of the story, as presented by each side. Maybe in the days ahead we will get some more dirt from another source. Until then, we'll all just make our own opinion of the matter.

I do think the truth, as usual, will be somewhere in the middle. I think the Clippers felt like they were perhaps just negotiating, and that EB felt like the Clippers were insulting him. In that sense they are both right, that was how each side experienced it all. And once Brand felt like the Clippers didn't really want him, he no longer felt any obligation to give them more of a chance than any other team.

But if that is the case, I still fault the Clippers more than Brand. They've already got Baron. There's not reason not to go ahead and renounce Livingston and Maggette, and offer some more money to EB. EB came out and said he'd play for less, all you gotta do is give a little on your side too, and its a done deal. $70 million is honestly a bull$hit offer, when they could've easily offered more.

The only other factor is that the Clippers probably really thought no one else would offer more, and thus $70 million was a fair offer. I could at least understand the logic in that, although the premise was obviously flawed because 2 teams quickly jumped in with much bigger offers.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:55 am
by enigmatics
madmaxmedia wrote:
That's a good rundown of the story, as presented by each side. Maybe in the days ahead we will get some more dirt from another source. Until then, we'll all just make our own opinion of the matter.

I do think the truth, as usual, will be somewhere in the middle. I think the Clippers felt like they were perhaps just negotiating, and that EB felt like the Clippers were insulting him. In that sense they are both right, that was how each side experienced it all. And once Brand felt like the Clippers didn't really want him, he no longer felt any obligation to give them more of a chance than any other team.

But if that is the case, I still fault the Clippers more than Brand. They've already got Baron. There's not reason not to go ahead and renounce Livingston and Maggette, and offer some more money to EB. EB came out and said he'd play for less, all you gotta do is give a little on your side too, and its a done deal.


............Falk used the Clippers as a prop to get a better offer from Philly. Brand's not being honest with how much he would've liked to play there if they could put together the proper contract. First the Clips offer $70 million ........ then $75 million ..... then suddenly the Sixers put together a trade to free up cap space for a $79 million contract for Brand. Falk and Brand were most definately holding out......especially Brand when they went MIA, so he could give himself some time to think who he wanted to play for.

The clips don't go renouncing players and offering BD $65 million over five years if they're the "take it or leave it" type. I mean how stupid is that? Especially the idea that anybody from the organization would insinuate that the owner could care either way if he resigned. What kind of bargaining chip is that? Nobody in their right mind would ever say that.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:00 am
by GuyverX
I think things like the ETO are probably true. I can see Dunleavy just calling Brand to see what's going on...I doubt he was trying to be sneaky and have Brand sign papers while Falk wasn't around or anything crazy like that. :crazy:

But I do believe the Brand camp basically cut the Clippers off even before Davis came to terms with them. That would mean they weren't as serious about staying with the Clippers as they wanted us to believe. I just think we got played by Falk, big time.

Also, what do they mean "we don't have time to play ping pong?" Since when did FA's have to sign with their teams the very first day on July 9th? That just doesn't make sense to me. They were going to Philly no matter what...not because they didn't have enough time to go back and forth.

And what the heck was Elgin Baylor doing all this time? Mike Dunleavy is, again, acting as GM.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:11 am
by madmaxmedia
I don't think Dunleavy was trying to go around Falk's back either. He was just trying to reach out to EB. But for whatever reason, EB wasn't interested anymore.

I'm not sure why you think the Brand camp cut the Clippers off even before Davis's deal. There was a big meeting afterwards where the reported $70 million offer was made and discussed. It's just the events of that meeting that are contested by both sides.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:16 am
by GuyverX
madmaxmedia wrote:I don't think Dunleavy was trying to go around Falk's back either. He was just trying to reach out to EB. But for whatever reason, EB wasn't interested anymore.

I'm not sure why you think the Brand camp cut the Clippers off even before Davis's deal. There was a big meeting afterwards where the reported $70 million offer was made and discussed. It's just the events of that meeting that are contested by both sides.


I didn't know that was when they first discussed the deal. I just know that Davis came to terms on July 1st and Dunleavy says they cut off communications over a week ago so...I didn't know if they met face to after the Davis signing or what. I just assumed they had discussed this deal before he opted out, tampering or otherwise. Maybe "a week" to Dunleavy is 5 business days.

We heard a lot about Golden State constantly talking with Brand but never the Clippers. It just seemed like they were already out of the picture.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 am
by mkwest
The whole "stopped having communications over a week ago" statement is very disturbing. Was Falk rejecting their calls? Were the Clippers not calling? If that's the case somebody wasn't trying or didn't want to try. Both the Warriors & Sixers were allowed to increase offers in their negotiations but the Clippers' were stuck at 70? It appears to me that they upped their offer twice, which is not exactly what I would call take it or leave. Did they drag their heels in upping the offer? Maybe, and he could have been pissed because they didn't offer that from the beginning. I can understand that but did he leave them room to actually "negotiate" and increase their offer before he decided to leave? He allowed the other teams to increase their offers.

I agree with Guyver's comment on players not needing to have something set in stone by the 9th. It's preferred but not necessary. If he truly wanted to be a Clipper he would one be right now.

Here's another article with quotes from Dunleavy and Mobley in the Daily News.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:31 am
by GuyverX
mkwest wrote:Here's another article with quotes from Dunleavy and Mobley in the Daily News.


A lot of it is the same from the Times article except the part about Dunleavy having text messages about a verbal deal. I would love to see those texts. And Brand said it wasn't that Philly was offering him the most money...it was because they gave him all they could. :-?

And you have to love Mobley. He thinks our roster is close to the Finals. He's way out there but it's nice to know somebody on that team thinks we'll be ok. :P

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:34 am
by TheBluest
LOL Here are the quotes that seal it for me and Dunleavy said exactly what I've been saying the past 24hrs..


"I can show text messages to Falk and all those things, (that we) made a verbal deal. You don't have to keep a verbal deal. It's not binding. You can say, 'You know what? I changed my mind I want to go to the East Coast because my wife's family is there. Or it's easier to make the playoffs. Or I can be an All-Star in the East as opposed to the West.' But just say it: We had a verbal deal and I just changed my mind."

Mobley didn't want to take sides, but said he had been worried about Brand's status as soon as Brand opted out of his contract June 30 and became an unrestricted free agent.

"I've been talking to Elton all along. Last week was the last time I talked to him, and he was scaring me the whole time," Mobley said. "I don't really know why he didn't want to come back. He's like my brother, so it's tough.


Dunleavy clearly says it just say you changed your mind and wanted to leave or better yet give them the option to get compensation even if it's minute. And why did he cut off communication with Mobley?

I hope EB has a career ending injury seriously. He F'D over this Franchise worse than any other athlete has done to a frnachise I've ever known.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:36 am
by PlinkingPanda
GuyverX wrote:
mkwest wrote:Here's another article with quotes from Dunleavy and Mobley in the Daily News.


A lot of it is the same from the Times article except the part about Dunleavy having text messages about a verbal deal. I would love to see those texts. And Brand said it wasn't that Philly was offering him the most money...it was because they gave him all they could. :-?

And you have to love Mobley. He thinks our roster is close to the Finals. He's way out there but it's nice to know somebody on that team thinks we'll be ok. :P


Notice how he didn't mention Timmy. XD

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:40 am
by GuyverX
I know a lot of people hate Dunleavy and I've grown tired of his offensive sets but I seriously believe him.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:48 am
by ckchen
For what it's worth tho - what Elton/Falk say has some argument to it as well. Why even start with a 5 yr/$70M deal saying that it's the most they can do, and then suddenly come up with more money only after they get better offers from other teams? You can say the Clips FO eventually came up with a comparable deal - but if they had the capability to do so, why didn't they do it from the beginning?

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:49 am
by jflipclip
If we got Stevie Franchise, Mobley would probably say we're a lock to win the championship!

Okay, jokes aside, it sounds like it was all based on miscommuncation between Clippers management, Falk, and EB. It's hard to pin the blame on somebody other than Clippers management, which is what many people are actually doing. It just sounds odd to me that Brand would leave just because he was offended when asked if he'd take a lower offer from us, that was eventually raised. Especially since, if we were going to sign Baron Davis, he should've expected such a thing to happen. What strikes me even more weird, is why does Brand seem like a completely different person?

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:59 am
by PlinkingPanda
ckchen wrote:For what it's worth tho - what Elton/Falk say has some argument to it as well. Why even start with a 5 yr/$70M deal saying that it's the most they can do, and then suddenly come up with more money only after they get better offers from other teams? You can say the Clips FO eventually came up with a comparable deal - but if they had the capability to do so, why didn't they do it from the beginning?


The part about the 5/70M deal as a take it or leave it offer is the main question for me. Both parties are saying the opposite. To be honest what's wrong with offering that if they're negotiating? It may be low, but that's what the majority of people would do. If Brand didn't like it couldn't he have waited it out a bit to get more and return with a higher offer? The Clippers didn't even renounce some players at the time(and they actually did just earlier from a RealGM wiretap just posted). So they did have some extra cap space to get.I didn't see any mention of a counter-offer from Brand's side(unless I missed it).

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:24 am
by JJ LoDuca
Wow, all this news is brand new to me...ugh, didn't mean to mention the traitor's name there, but really, this info is astonishing. I was starting to give the player the benefit of the doubt, but all this new information makes him just look like more of a d*ck.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:43 am
by DEEP3CL
The problem here was 5 people in my opinion.
1. Sterling
2. Falk
3. Brand
4. Dunleavy
5. Baylor

These 5 men are responsible for this. For one in the biggest negotiation that can solidify your franchise for many years to come and your employees can get you on the phone ? Better yet why wasn't Sterling in on the process every step of the way ? Like put your foot in the whole thing. Sterling should have been the one giving Baylor or Dunleavy orders everyday.

David Falk has represented some know players most of them HOF's like Larry Bird, Jordan, James Worthy and Pat Ewing. The man has a known rep to run over and manipulate weak minded GM's. He's dominated those types of guys for years. The reason you never heard of him "punking" Jerry West, Krouse, Checketts, or Red was because those guys were smart and tough minded. But with guys like Baylor and who ever else he's ran up on he's over powered them. One of the Clippers problems too me is who's really the GM ? Falk even jabbed at that in the press conference.

Brand was the middle man in this and showed some manhood, Falk has him like a puppet. Notice how in the press conference he kept saying Falk's name ? Didn't Arenas negotiate his own deal ? Not saying Brand had to do the same thing but it proves it can be done.

Dunleavy , is he the coach or GM ? Seems like Baylor had no role in this at all. I haven't even heard a quote from him. Mike was at the controls like the whole process it seems. But Falk is a vindictive guy, he's had it out for the Clippers since 98 no matter what he says. Dunleavy needs to let Baylor do his job he's paid to do.

Baylor was nowhere to be seen I guess. Even if he does let Mike have some say so on deals he still needs to be the main voice no matter what. By him not being involved at all is stunning. Plus I don't think he has a good relationship with Falk anyway.

It's sad it ended like this but more is going to come out just watch.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:47 am
by madmaxmedia
Fishy~McFish wrote:
ckchen wrote:If Brand didn't like it couldn't he have waited it out a bit to get more and return with a higher offer? The Clippers didn't even renounce some players at the time(and they actually did just earlier from a RealGM wiretap just posted). So they did have some extra cap space to get.I didn't see any mention of a counter-offer from Brand's side(unless I missed it).


It was his prerogative either way, that's the risk the Clippers took in offering a low offer.

When a marquee UFA enters the free agent market, do you see anyone else 'negotiating'? No, teams line up to offer the best they can come up with, because you typically don't get a second chance.

I can sorta see halfway the twisted logic of why the Clippers chose the path they did, except not really. He was a UFA, and one of the few players that is arguably worth more than the NBA maximum contract. Given that fact, the much smarter thing for the Clippers would've been to come to the table and shown a willingness to accommodate him, given that even the best they could come up with would very well be less than what another team would offer him.

Whether they did that or not, we don't know- it's guesswork either way and depends on whose story you believe. But it would have been pretty stupid not to.

Re: The Reason why Brand left the Clippers

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:54 am
by SD2042
Both sides screwed up big and the fans are paying the price. And now, the fans have no choice but to try and move on without Brand and find another PF who can contribute to the team.